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Let's Chat Sylvaneth


scrubyandwells

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41 minutes ago, Kindling said:

Everyone has hoped on their hover discs.

Ah I'd only start playing another army if it involved my previous love.. the wood elves... Only the fact this army split of from them and I had some models already made me start a 2nd army (I never intended to do that, resisted starting my wall of steel army in either dwarves or chaos warriors for ages).

I'd still like opinions on the lists though :D

I played a game with my original Gnarlroot list (nr 3 in the post 3 above this one)  and still not conviced it's worth the tax (didn't have a real use for the revenants, would much rather have had more dryads against a high body count legacy high elf army). 

I'm also wondering whether trading Drycha and a Wych for a hurricanum would improve that list. Drycha's shooting damage can be impressive but it's not mortal wounds. 

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2 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Ah I'd only start playing another army if it involved my previous love.. the wood elves... Only the fact this army split of from them and I had some models already made me start a 2nd army (I never intended to do that, resisted starting my wall of steel army in either dwarves or chaos warriors for ages).

I'd still like opinions on the lists though :D

I played a game with my original Gnarlroot list (nr 3 in the post 3 above this one)  and still not conviced it's worth the tax (didn't have a real use for the revenants, would much rather have had more dryads against a high body count legacy high elf army). 

I'm also wondering whether trading Drycha and a Wych for a hurricanum would improve that list. Drycha's shooting damage can be impressive but it's not mortal wounds. 

I need to finish my Sylvaneth army first too...

Did play my first game with Drycha over the weekend, she caused a lot of havok against Stormcast, her Primal Scream spell ripped through a few units, couldn't get a Wyldwood off aside from the starting one. The match came down to two hunters picking off the Sormcast general to win.

Was only a 1500 point match made up from models I've managed to put together

Gnarlroot

Household

Tree Lord Ancient

Branchwych

5 Tree Revenants

10 Dryads

Treelord

Drycha

Kurnoth Hunters (Greatbows)

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My opponents wanted to play 3 battleline in 1500 hence 2 x 10 dryads, another wych and the treekin for me.. which doesn't even look like a bad trade against that treelord of yours. (especially since it's 320 points vs your 260)

So far my Drycha has done some nice damage in melee, good damage in shooting (squirmlings for me) but primal scream wasn't much really.

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My Tree Lord Ancient was focused pretty early and was lucky to last 3 rounds, The reason he did last was due to the Treelord charging in and finishing off some paladins, a couple of a Lord Celest on a Dracoth and a take a few wounds from couple of other Dracoth mounted shinies... Treelords tend to get overlooked if Drycha and a Tree Lord Ancient are present.

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I've been pretty busy and had no time to play lately, slowly painting the army to a table top standard. Got a tournament in two weeks and lists due in one week so I should have more to discuss soon.

List building for me ATM tends to be choosing a battalion + maximising Kurnoth hunters so I'm pretty boring on that front.

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I've been pretty busy and had no time to play lately, slowly painting the army to a table top standard. Got a tournament in two weeks and lists due in one week so I should have more to discuss soon.

List building for me ATM tends to be choosing a battalion + maximising Kurnoth hunters so I'm pretty boring on that front.

I'm particularly busy at work.

Happy to say that I did get a lot of extra Sylvaneth assembled over Christmas and painted Drycha. I've gone with a Lava, Realm of Aqshy theme for all of my newer armies, including my Order force. So as to fit Sylvaneth into this theme (and since apparently wood and lava aren't friends); and prompted by a Vince Venturella (Warhammer Weekly) Hobby Cheating Video, I decided to go for magic water being generated by someone to keep their feet from burning. and to cool down the lava.

List-wise, I've acquired some Seraphon and am planning to take the Slaan Starmaster as the Order Unit in a Winterleaf list. I'll take turn one (which is increasingly a sensible option for Sylvaneth to take out key enemy combo pieces or drop units before they get buffs on or Inspiring Presence. The goal is to build some flexibility into the list - vs Disciples of Tzeentch, the Starmaster will bring on the Bastiladon, sometimes will bring on Temple Guard or Razordons (hard counter to Fanatics), potentially bring on the Astrolith Bearer (hard to believe that this also gives reroll hit rolls). It's still at the Theoryhammer stage, but it's potentially interesting. The Starmaster is squishy, but also carries 3 Spells. 

I played a game against @Bowlzee who was using Sylvaneth - very good fun. It was quite a balanced game. Dryads are immense. Do need some work to actually fit 20 of them into a single Wyldwood though.

Roused By Magic

As is well known, you can roll a charge without declaring a target and you don't need to make the charge even if you make the roll (you can change your mind). However, you do need to check the 12" range beforehand.

Having reread the core rules ("Casting Spells"), the process is:

  1. Roll two dice.
  2. Is it cast?
  3. Unbinding.

What's missing from steps 1-3 is anything to do with checking that the target is in range.

Arcane Bolt's description says: "If successfully cast, pick an enemy unit within 18" of the caster and which is visible to them."

This is consistent, you cast the spell, then look for a target in range.

The reason why this matters is that it means you can cast your spells even when you know you don't have a target in range in order to pump a Wyldwood's Roused by Magic rule repeatedly on a 5+. It's not a huge point, but worth bearing in mind occasionally. Probably most relevant to Gnarlroot lists where you can easily have 6+ spells to cast, some of which have short ranges.

Apologies if this is extremely obvious.

This also has implications for at least one other army in a different Grand Alliance, which is potentially more important.

 

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Just to keep the discussion going, I can add that after trying other sylvaneth lists I gave the Gnarlroot a go. It is obviously very potent. I´ve played 10-isch games with Sisters of the Thorn as my order wizard and I'm still not sold on them. Shield of Thorns is arguably a very good spell when cast on dryads but you pay a hefty price for a very, very obvious combo. The sisters doesn´t add that much other than the spell; shooting and melee is lackluster and while they've got the speed that really isn't a problem for sylvaneth anyway. I keep thinking that those 220 points could have come to better use. Will give them some more games though before I shelf them.

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18 minutes ago, Ratatatata said:

Just to keep the discussion going, I can add that after trying other sylvaneth lists I gave the Gnarlroot a go. It is obviously very potent. I´ve played 10-isch games with Sisters of the Thorn as my order wizard and I'm still not sold on them. Shield of Thorns is arguably a very good spell when cast on dryads but you pay a hefty price for a very, very obvious combo. The sisters doesn´t add that much other than the spell; shooting and melee is lackluster and while they've got the speed that really isn't a problem for sylvaneth anyway. I keep thinking that those 220 points could have come to better use. Will give them some more games though before I shelf them.

Yeah I passed on the already. In the 1500 points lists it's either TLA, wych, wych, Drycha or TLA, wych, loremaster, Drycha or TLA, Wych, hurricanum (that is theory.. I don't have a hurricanum).

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24 minutes ago, Ratatatata said:

@Nico - just got to say I love the basing. Cleaver idea!

Yeah he can paint. But personally I fit seeing all the primary colors in a single model a bit much. I'd have left either blue or green  of the colorscheme (that is if I ever did a lava sylvaneth army which won't be anytime soon either). Actually I'd have left out BOTH blue and green and gone for red/orange/yellow and more black: Since lava doesn't only hurt trees but most fleshy creatures and even walking on it in full armor isn't a good idea I'd have said they aren't directly walking on the real lava and would've gone with scorched feet (but their healing abilities countering more severe damage).

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Shield of Thorns is arguably a very good spell when cast on dryads but you pay a hefty price for a very, very obvious combo.

Quite a few games turn on whether a mystic shield cast roll goes off or not. The casting value of 6 for Shield of Thorns is the problem. I guess you could take 10 Sisters and cast it on a 5 or hope for Arcane Terrain. However, I just don't like relying on a mechanic as unreliable as this one. The Sisters feel like they are costed as if the spell was guaranteed, which is the problem.

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1 hour ago, Nico said:

Quite a few games turn on whether a mystic shield cast roll goes off or not. The casting value of 6 for Shield of Thorns is the problem. I guess you could take 10 Sisters and cast it on a 5 or hope for Arcane Terrain. However, I just don't like relying on a mechanic as unreliable as this one. The Sisters feel like they are costed as if the spell was guaranteed, which is the problem.

I agree. I find that with the mobility of the Sylvaneth (and the need to use that mobility), relying on terrain features is never worth it (Bowhunters + damned might be the exception). And 10 sisters, thats 440 points. Not to mention that a big unit of dryads seem to be the obvious (only?) target for the spell. Any cleaver opponent will just not fight them on those terms and then you´re paying 440+ points. Such a shame as the sisters are lovely models that really come to life on oval bases. :( 

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2 hours ago, Nico said:

Quite a few games turn on whether a mystic shield cast roll goes off or not. The casting value of 6 for Shield of Thorns is the problem. I guess you could take 10 Sisters and cast it on a 5 or hope for Arcane Terrain. However, I just don't like relying on a mechanic as unreliable as this one. The Sisters feel like they are costed as if the spell was guaranteed, which is the problem.

About that mystic shield: in my game last thursday against high elves I played my TLA with gnarled warrior and the circle (and the reaping). In turn 3 or 4 I had a bit of a problem where 10 dryads (in forest) where fighting 20+ highelf spearmen and 20 phoenix guard had to be intercepted by the TLA. I decided to cast the shield on the dryads (since they had 40 something attacks coming their way) but that meant the TLA didn't have his shield so the re-roll hit (and not just 1's) buff from his general went on the Phoenix guard and so he did 5 wounds on the general. Next turns I got the shield on the TLA and he didnt'get any wounds anymore.

Point being: he needs the 2+ reroll 1's and mystic shield isn't all that reliable (I mean this guy didn't have a mage but unbinding is an option too) and mystic shield needing to be on the same unit all the time takes away flexibility.

So I'll stop putting the Circlet on him and stick with oaken armor for an ever present 2+ save. 

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Not to mention that a big unit of dryads seem to be the obvious (only?) target for the spell.

It also works obscenely well on a TLA (general with Gnarled Warrior and Oaken Armour). I've moved away from Briarsheath decisively after facing 3 Kunning Rukk Arrer Boyz armies at Blood & Glory (don't worry they all had Thundertusks as well). He is literally invincible against their hundreds of attacks (until he gets two Snowballs to the face from the Husktusks). 

What Sylvaneth really need would be an Order wizard that has Kairos's ability to reliably cast other people's spells (like Teclis could do up to a point)....

Sylvaneth are a lot stronger if you don't have to declare artefacts for all 5-6 games of a tournament.

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Yeah, I've been taking a little break from painting my sylvaneth to finally get through painting silver tower. Although competitive Sylvaneth play is still on my mind. It just seems as far as this thread goes, we pretty much know where everybody stands. Nearly everybody agrees; gnarlroot is a very strong option for competitive play and that pretty much what everybody is playing atm. Winterleaf and Dreadwood are both effective options as well, but require a more specific collection requirement to be effective (outcasts for dreadwood and lots and lots of dryads for Winterleaf). So most players are opting to play the battalion that the easiest to collect. It also helps that the meta hasn't really come up with a good Gnarlroot counter. 

I'v also been watching the Disciples of Tzneetch release pretty closely. so far the leaks are kind of a mixed bag. It's looking to be a very very effect anti-magic army, with strong spell casting and great magic defense.  But a lot of the more interesting mechanics seem to rely on summoning, and it's just so severely restricted in matched play I'm seriously wondering how effective it would be as a tournament army. A fateweaver list with skyfires and acolytes would easily eat gnarlroot for breakfast, but I'm not certain it's got enough well rounded punch to be anything more than a rock-paper-scissors army until I've seen the rest of the formations and point values. 

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4 hours ago, Nico said:

It also works obscenely well on a TLA (general with Gnarled Warrior and Oaken Armour). I've moved away from Briarsheath decisively after facing 3 Kunning Rukk Arrer Boyz armies at Blood & Glory (don't worry they all had Thundertusks as well). He is literally invincible against their hundreds of attacks (until he gets two Snowballs to the face from the Husktusks). 

What Sylvaneth really need would be an Order wizard that has Kairos's ability to reliably cast other people's spells (like Teclis could do up to a point)....

Sylvaneth are a lot stronger if you don't have to declare artefacts for all 5-6 games of a tournament.

Could you say how those battles went? And elaborate on that last line?

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Hi guys, 

Received a reply from GW confirming the following: 

  • If you're within 3" of an enemy model and you use Navigate Realmroots or Waypipes, they both count as a retreat.
  • With Gnarlroot Wargrove, you can cast and unbind up to two spells with more than one Wizard, as long as they're a Treelord Ancient, Branchwych, or Branchwraith.
  • If the Destruction command trait Nothing Left Standing is used on a Sylvaneth Wyldwood, the Wyldwood's warscroll abilities are removed, but it still counts as a Sylvaneth Wyldwood for purposes of abilities like the Dryads' Blessings of the Forest. 

Keep an eye out this week for part 2 of the AoS Spotlight - Sylvaneth series at Warhammer Community, along with a podcast chat with @Nico about a couple of sylvaneth lists for Matched Play. 

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3 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

Hi guys, 

Received a reply from GW confirming the following: 

  • If you're within 3" of an enemy model and you use Navigate Realmroots or Waypipes, they both count as a retreat.
  • With Gnarlroot Wargrove, you can cast and unbind up to two spells with more than one Wizard, as long as they're a Treelord Ancient, Branchwych, or Branchwraith.
  • If the Destruction command trait Nothing Left Standing is used on a Sylvaneth Wyldwood, the Wyldwood's warscroll abilities are removed, but it still counts as a Sylvaneth Wyldwood for purposes of abilities like the Dryads' Blessings of the Forest. 

Keep an eye out this week for part 2 of the AoS Spotlight - Sylvaneth series at Warhammer Community, along with a podcast chat with @Nico about a couple of sylvaneth lists for Matched Play. 

Wow. Those are all pretty significant clarifications. Huge thanks mate. 

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Hi guys, 
Received a reply from GW confirming the following: 
  • If you're within 3" of an enemy model and you use Navigate Realmroots or Waypipes, they both count as a retreat.
  • With Gnarlroot Wargrove, you can cast and unbind up to two spells with more than one Wizard, as long as they're a Treelord Ancient, Branchwych, or Branchwraith.
  • If the Destruction command trait Nothing Left Standing is used on a Sylvaneth Wyldwood, the Wyldwood's warscroll abilities are removed, but it still counts as a Sylvaneth Wyldwood for purposes of abilities like the Dryads' Blessings of the Forest. 
Keep an eye out this week for part 2 of the AoS Spotlight - Sylvaneth series at Warhammer Community, along with a podcast chat with [mention=163]Nico[/mention] about a couple of sylvaneth lists for Matched Play. 

That's awesome. Good effort

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4 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

Hi guys, 

Received a reply from GW confirming the following: 

  • If you're within 3" of an enemy model and you use Navigate Realmroots or Waypipes, they both count as a retreat.
  • With Gnarlroot Wargrove, you can cast and unbind up to two spells with more than one Wizard, as long as they're a Treelord Ancient, Branchwych, or Branchwraith.
  • If the Destruction command trait Nothing Left Standing is used on a Sylvaneth Wyldwood, the Wyldwood's warscroll abilities are removed, but it still counts as a Sylvaneth Wyldwood for purposes of abilities like the Dryads' Blessings of the Forest. 

Keep an eye out this week for part 2 of the AoS Spotlight - Sylvaneth series at Warhammer Community, along with a podcast chat with @Nico about a couple of sylvaneth lists for Matched Play. 

Awesome, thanks!

And yeah, I've been waiting for an update on your podcast for some time now so that´s great news!

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15 hours ago, Nico said:

It also works obscenely well on a TLA (general with Gnarled Warrior and Oaken Armour). I've moved away from Briarsheath decisively after facing 3 Kunning Rukk Arrer Boyz armies at Blood & Glory (don't worry they all had Thundertusks as well). He is literally invincible against their hundreds of attacks (until he gets two Snowballs to the face from the Husktusks). 

What Sylvaneth really need would be an Order wizard that has Kairos's ability to reliably cast other people's spells (like Teclis could do up to a point)....

Sylvaneth are a lot stronger if you don't have to declare artefacts for all 5-6 games of a tournament.

Interesting, cus I´ve just drifted away from the briarsheath to the Gnarled Armour- setup. In the end I guess it´s down to what you think you´ll face. When I play SCE I want that briarsheath badly though.

That kind of wizard would have been great but I´d really just settle with having access to the talisman or any other way to mitigate mortal wound- spam... :) 

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That kind of wizard would have been great but I´d really just settle with having access to the talisman or any other way to mitigate mortal wound- spam... :) 

It's Sylvaneth's one glaring weakness. 

You can take a Luminark for some minor 6+ aoe mortal wound protection.

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  • If you're within 3" of an enemy model and you use Navigate Realmroots or Waypipes, they both count as a retreat.

Thank you.

Wow - that's yet another nerf. Really surprised by the Waypipes one. Who responded? Is this going to be in the next FAQ? Is the Vexillor banner a retreat too?  

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Could you say how those battles went? And elaborate on that last line?

To clarify, I wasn't playing with Sylvaneth against the Kunning Rukk combos. The point was to illustrate how incredibly strong and ubiquitous they are. The Battle Reports are here. Games 2, 3 and (spoiler) 6 featured the Kunning Rukk Arrer Boyz. The other point is that killing the Savage Big Boss often isn't sufficient - they will still typically delete anything in range that doesn't have a 3+ save or better (and for monsters a 2+ save or better).

If you face Husktusks, you can take the Seed of Rebirth, to survive a double Snowball. Against Retributors or Bloodletter Bomb you can take Briarsheath (or against Skyfyres now since the -1 to hit debuff would be big). If you can choose each game, then great. If you cannot, then Oaken Armour is the go-to option since it's almost essential to deal with certain things (like Kunning Rukk Arrer Boyz).

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