Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[Nico]

You only get one for your army and then an additional one for each formation you take (you can choose either Treasure or Artefact).

[Pompe]

Well now i feel rather dumb and uninformed, but thank you for the info. So what would your recommendation be for the list and the armies I will be facing?

[Forestreveries]

1 hour ago, Stevewren said:

I also listened to the Lost Lighthouse today and was impressed how well @Forestreveries did with Allarielle. I was surprised how he said that the army was really flexible in movement as I haven't seen this at all since I started playing woods correctly. Also I like the idea of being able to retreat out of combat using the spirit roots and then charging again somewhere else. Our group in Notts/Derby had a big discussion on this and we came to the conclusion you couldn't do this but if its being allowed that really helps.     

Thanks! Hope you enjoyed the ep.

I think perhaps my particular army build was more mobile due to very small footprints. My army was mostly single model units (monsters) so finding that point within 3" of a wood and outside 9" of an enemy wasn't too difficult.  

Playing with Alarielle is an entirely different experience to playing without I feel. If durthu is your biggest threat then your opponent is going to work hard to bring him down asap, whereas with her, not only does she offer amazing healing abilities she is also the bigger threat and takes some of the heat off of Durthu. 

 

I Think it's fine to use the realmroots to leave combat and then charge in the same turn. Nothing to say you can't, so why not? It's not all that easy tbh, you can't go to the same wood you're leaving, so you'd have to have space to summon one exactly where you need it in that hero phase really.

 

Aaron

[Nico]

I think a pair of Durthus to split the damage could be worth a try.

 

I'll try to provide detailed response on those points tomorrow. 

[MidasKiss]

3 hours ago, Pompe said:

So the Arcane Treasures and the Arcane Artefacts are exclusive?

 

You get one for having only Sylvaneth models + 1 for each battalion you take (including battalions that are within the bigger battalions). So if you built a Gnarlroot Wargrove battalion list you would get 1 for the Sylvaneth allegiance, one for the Gnarlroot, and one for the Household battalion that is part of the Gnarlroot.

For the question of battalions at lower points, probably not worth it but I might do it anyways because they are cool. Easy enough to use or not use them when you want to.

I would strongly recommend a unit of bows if you are versing the beastclaws regularly. You need to wound that thundertusk, the guy I vs regularly says a lot of people make the mistake of focusing his stonehorn. Having played with all melee, it's hard to ignore and try get around to the thundertusk. But you have to do 4 wounds to drop that automatic 6 wounda to D6 wounds. Before playing I knew that a 2+ to hit Auto mortal wounds ranged attack was bad, but versing it in real life can be crushing if you can't hit it first.

I would just attack each of the beastclaws to get wounds through and then move to the next, focusing on finishing off those who become big threats. I don't really agree that taking one bow and one scythes would be bad. Though it might not look as cool!

Also consider that 6+ wound/mortal wound save in those games. 

Ignoring that, if you choose to go all scythes then consider taking the reroll hits in each phase. The treelord ancient ranged attack can be devastating but with only one attack doesn't go through a lot. The reroll hit would make it much more likely if you were relying on that as your only ranged attack.

With the woods, read the advice that mirage gave me to verse Seraphon, and read through the thread that Forest Revery put up. Vs beastclaws remember that monsters don't have to treat them as deadly certain (either do heros), so you will need your own magic casting to get the damage out with those. They are quick also so be careful not to deploy them on one side and have him choose to deploy there because he will be very far from them and probably at your end by the end of turn one. Putting them in the middle, St objectives and at choke points works well (those beastclaws raiders are big so it's hard for them to avoid chokes, you could perhaps block routes of completely).

I haven't versed anyone but BCR and Seraphon really, the skaven I versed was my favourite game because he didn't bring absolute filth...

Hope I answered some of your questions, I'm on my phone which makes it a little difficult.

[scrubyandwells]

2 hours ago, Stevewren said:

Yeah, I like both these options. Durthu might have been good today, but I think in both games today he would have died really fast, just through the quantity of attacks! 

Re: your games, so multi-buffed Stormfiends did most of the damage game 1, but what about game 2? Was it mostly the mortal wounds from the Thundertusks, which benefited from your lack of shooting and thus lack of ability to knock them off the auto 6 mortal wounds? I'm guessing the Thundertusks also did major damage in combat. It sounds like the Arrow Boys weren't that successful shooting you, though? 

[scrubyandwells]

2 hours ago, Ratatatata said:

@scrubyandwells looking at this and other lists your posting is really inspiring. Though I got to ask, does 3 units of 10 dryads (or less Dryads and a unit of revenants) work for you? I've used units of 10 dryads a few times and they just seem to melt away! Sure in some scenarios I could keep them off the battlefield until a later turn, but once they arrive anything bar a zombie can just sneeze in their direction and they're gone. 

Thanks for the kind words @Ratatatata. Re: 3 Dryads x10, I've had some success using them to contest/control objectives or chaff screen more important units, but I haven't been facing the kind of lists @Stevewren has had the pleasure of. Hoping to start playtesting soon vs much stronger lists to see whether 3 Dryads x10 are viable or whether, e.g., 1 Dryads x20 + 1 Dryads x10 is a better all-around bet.

[Nico]

Quote

But you only have to do 1 wound to drop that automatic 6 wounda to D6 wounds. 

It's 3 wounds from memory - and watch out for the filth healing - Ogors healing - if that isn't burning the fluff to the ground I don't know what is.

[MidasKiss]

37 minutes ago, Nico said:

It's 3 wounds from memory - and watch out for the filth healing - Ogors healing - if that isn't burning the fluff to the ground I don't know what is.

On checking it's even worse, you need to get into the 4-5 wounds bracket to drop it to D6. What were they thinking! 

[Lanoss]

Does the allegiance you choose count as a battalion to allow heroes to pick another artefact?

I read here that playing a Sylvaneth alliance, gnarlroot Wargrove and household battalion you'd be able to dish out 3 artefacts for 3 heroes?

Whereas I thought it'd be 1 for the household and 1 for the gnarlroot. Can anyone confirm?

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[scrubyandwells]

5 minutes ago, Lanoss said:

Does the allegiance you choose count as a battalion to allow heroes to pick another artefact?

I read here that playing a Sylvaneth alliance, gnarlroot Wargrove and household battalion you'd be able to dish out 3 artefacts for 3 heroes?

Whereas I thought it'd be 1 for the household and 1 for the gnarlroot. Can anyone confirm?

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Yeah, if playing Sylvaneth allegiance with Gnarlroot Wargrove and Household, you'll have 3 artefacts of power you can take, up to 1 artefact per hero (wizards can take an artefact of power or an arcane treasure). You receive one artefact of power by default, and then one additional per battalion. Gnarlroot Wargrove and Household count as separate battalions.

[Nico]

Quote

 Tips and tricks against the following armies:

a.       Beastclaw Raiders

b.      Stormcast Eternals

c.       Khorne Bloodbound

d.      High Aelsves

e.      Skaven

BCR

Consider bringing in Sisters of the Thorn with your formation with an Order Wizard to give a unit of Dryads in cover (in a Sylvaneth Wildwood) and mystic shield and just sit (more than 4 inches) behind that. Shoot the Thundertusks.

Alternatively keep whole army off the board until such time as you go second in a Battleround and play for the Double Turn. Massively focus fire the Thundertusks and kill them all. Ignore the Stonehorns.

Is there a command trait which cuts the minimum range of all the enemies' shooting attacks for the first battleround?

Use the Dreadwood Wargrove and pick the stratagem hidden attackers to cut the range of the Thundertusks to 12 inches in the first Battleround (so a max range of 26 inches with the Rampaging Destroyers if he rolls a 6). Then you can stand 3 inches off your 12 inch line and prepare for the Stonehorn alpha strike. Watch the look on his face when he cannot get his sleaze shooting.

Stormcast Eternals

Bunker up with Dryads. Use one or more Spirits of Durthu to protect heroes.

Alternatively deploy everything off the table and see who blinks first.

Khorne Bloodbound

Snipe the Bloodsecrators. This could be a use for Tree Revenants as the Bloodsecrators are normally lagging behind at the back.  

Retreat backwards while shooting, casting spells. Focus fire on anything not immune to Battleshock. Make them run through your deadly Sylvaneth Wyldwoods into Dryads and Hunters in Cover. Watch out for Wrathmongers - throw Dryads into them.

High Aelsves

Use your deployment rules to focus fire on half of his army and kill it (hope that he spreads out). Avoid anything with the word Phoenix in the name. They are a good solid all-rounder army.

Skaven

Really depends on what they bring. Against blocks of troops the Spite Revenants could come into play well. Again the formation that limits shooting range could be sweet.

[Forestreveries]

4 hours ago, Nico said:

Stormcast Eternals

Bunker up with Dryads. Use one or more Spirits of Durthu to protect heroes.

Alternatively deploy everything off the table and see who blinks first.

I wouldn't recommend this. Retributors and Vexillor combo is very common, (or even skyborne slayers etc).

All it takes is for them to jump onto your wyldwood and you can't get any models on the table. You just lost.

I wouldn't recommend it in any situation tbh, even if you start with a wyldwood made up of 3 citadel woods, you still have limited options of where you can deploy and if your opponent is smart they'll close that space quickly and make your deployment incredibly predictable and may even prevent part of your army coming on, forcing you to deploy in waves so they can take you apart piecemeal. Also you lose the hero phase which is just taking a whole load of effectiveness off your units and then sending them all in!

 

Khorne Bloodbound

Snipe all the support characters before you engage the units. Drycha is amazing in that role if you can summon a wyldwood behind them and jump her into it, or else get her up around a flank and her flitterfuries will pick off all the characters over a few rounds.

 

Skaven.  

Shoot the Stormfiends with Kurnoth ASAP.  Use realmroots if you can to get over there kill their magic users and artillery

 

Beastclaw Raiders

Remember you dont have to deploy at the 12" line, stay back. 

Screen anything you don't want to die with long lines of dryads spread out more than 4" in front of your other units. Be careful as they do mortal wounds in the charge phase which can open up unexpected routes for their other charging models. 

...and as above; shoot the Thundertusks

Again wouldn't recommend keeping entire army off the board!

Aaron

[Nico]

Good post.

Yeah - I'm really theoryhammering here. I hadn't appreciated how dangerous it is to deploy everything off the board with only one Wyldwood down on the table.

Quote

Screen anything you don't want to die with long lines of dryads spread out more than 4" in front of your other units.

Probably at least 6 inches, as if they charge, then they can always pile in even if nothings left within 6 inches (Ben Curry did a post about this a while back after Alliance regarding an unfortunate Lord of Change. What's the range on the Stonehorn's tusks?

[Pompe]

 

26 minutes ago, Nico said:

Probably at least 6 inches, as if they charge, then they can always pile in even if nothings left within 6 inches (Ben Curry did a post about this a while back after Alliance regarding an unfortunate Lord of Change. What's the range on the Stonehorn's tusks?

2" range on the horns of a Stonehorn.

In addition the Line-breaker ability of the Stonehorn lets you pick a Mournfang Pack within 10" pile in 3" and attack if they have not already attacked. They have another 2" on the Gargant Hacker (2 attacks/4+/3+/-1/3 damage). The conga-line of Dryads will probably die to the Stonehorn and if the Mournfangs charged the same unit they get the pile in + 2" attacks.  So 6 " minimum sounds healthy.

38 minutes ago, Forestreveries said:

...and as above; shoot the Thundertusks

Regarding the weapon composition of the Hunters: if I get 6 Hunters, do I go all Greatbows in one unit, 2 units of 3 Hunters with Greatbows or  or do you recommend me to split it into 3/3 Greatbows/Scythes?

[Forestreveries]

1 hour ago, Pompe said:

Regarding the weapon composition of the Hunters: if I get 6 Hunters, do I go all Greatbows in one unit, 2 units of 3 Hunters with Greatbows or  or do you recommend me to split it into 3/3 Greatbows/Scythes?

I think I will be going with 2x6's, one bows and one scythes, except in cases  when I want to use the Free Spirits Battalion; in which case I think I would split the scythes so I could make the most of the extra movement. 

It's less deployment drops, and larger units are much more resilient. The bows have such great range that they don't really benefit from the slight increased threat coverage when splitting up (you can split your shots anyway if you want).

Also, I have talked about it in depth elsewhere but I love to have my large unit with greatbows sat in or near damned terrain for the +1 to hit, it really turns them on!

If you have 2 units you'd have to take twice the mortal wounds.

Scythes however I don't think matter as much. The biggest downside is that you will only get to attack with half as many before the enemy strikes you back, but on the flipside your opponent will have to work harder to keep them away from their intended prey.

Hope I understood what you were asking correctly!

Aaron

[Pompe]

2 minutes ago, Forestreveries said:

I think I will be going with 2x6's, one bows and one scythes, except in cases  when I want to use the Free Spirits Battalion; in which case I think I would split the scythes so I could make the most of the extra movement. 

It's less deployment drops, and larger units are much more resilient. The bows have such great range that two units don't really benefit from the flexibility of splitting up. Also, I have talked about it in depth elsewhere but I love to have my large unit with bows sat in or near damned terrain for the +1 to hit, it really turns them on!

Scythes however I don't think matter as much. The biggest downside is that you will only get to attack with half as many before the enemy strikes you back, but on the flipside your opponent will have to work harder to keep them away from their intended prey.

Hope I understood what you were asking correctly!

Aaron

Thanks for the reply and yes you did! But since I am only going for 1k points at the moment, would you suggest going for 2x3 Greatbows or one big unit at the risk of wasting shots?

[Forestreveries]

1 hour ago, Pompe said:

Regarding the weapon composition of the Hunters: if I get 6 Hunters, do I go all Greatbows in one unit, 2 units of 3 Hunters with Greatbows or  or do you recommend me to split it into 3/3 Greatbows/Scythes?

Currently I only own 6, originally as 2 units of 3, but after the first game I tried it out they have been run as one unit with bows, and they have served me extremely well tbh. Don't think I have lost them in a game as yet.

 

I guess that's another way to answer. 

 

Aaron

[Forestreveries]

4 minutes ago, Pompe said:

Thanks for the reply and yes you did! But since I am only going for 1k points at the moment, would you suggest going for 2x3 Greatbows or one big unit at the risk of wasting shots?

Depends on the rest of your list honestly. If you feel you have enough units to compete with the objective based missions then go one unit. If you feel you need the flexibility then split them up. I haven't played a whole lot of 1k points myself so just try it out and see what suits you

 

Aaron

[Lanoss]

Yeah, if playing Sylvaneth allegiance with Gnarlroot Wargrove and Household, you'll have 3 artefacts of power you can take, up to 1 artefact per hero (wizards can take an artefact of power or an arcane treasure). You receive one artefact of power by default, and then one additional per battalion. Gnarlroot Wargrove and Household count as separate battalions.

Well that's just gravy!

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[MidasKiss]

16 hours ago, Nico said:

Consider bringing in Sisters of the Thorn with your formation with an Order Wizard to give a unit of Dryads in cover (in a Sylvaneth Wildwood) and mystic shield and just sit (more than 4 inches) behind that. Shoot the Thundertusks.

The Shield of Thorns is so tasty, I'm guessing the saves of 6 to cause mortal wounds are natural 6's, rather than including the +1 to save with over 12 dryads? As a new player I'm still trying to learn all the nuances in the ways that the rules are written. Regardless, 6's causing mortal wounds with rerolling saves is really nice, though it's a shame they get to finish all their attacks first... It's a close call between the Sisters vs a Hurricanum for the 1 order wizard in a Gnarlroot list.

As an aside, I just realised that I haven't been using the Treelord Ancients command ability, because it's not on the website warscroll which I printed out to save flicking through the book. I thought they might have removed it, but it's on the ap warscroll so can't wait to use it in my games tonight. I'm assuming the app is over rules the website and the battle tome for things like that.

[Mirage8112]

The Shield of Thorns is so tasty, I'm guessing the saves of 6 to cause mortal wounds are natural 6's, rather than including the +1 to save with over 12 dryads? As a new player I'm still trying to learn all the nuances in the ways that the rules are written. Regardless, 6's causing mortal wounds with rerolling saves is really nice, though it's a shame they get to finish all their attacks first... It's a close call between the Sisters vs a Hurricanum for the 1 order wizard in a Gnarlroot list.

As an aside, I just realised that I haven't been using the Treelord Ancients command ability, because it's not on the website warscroll which I printed out to save flicking through the book. I thought they might have removed it, but it's on the ap warscroll so can't wait to use it in my games tonight. I'm assuming the app is over rules the website and the battle tome for things like that.

Nope. Sisters shield of thorns stacks with modified saves. So a group of 12 dryads, in the woods (cover), with mystic shield on them would save wounds on a 2+. And if that save roll is 3+ or better it does a mortal wound back.

It's absolutely brutal.

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[scrubyandwells]

1 hour ago, Mirage8112 said:

Nope. Sisters shield of thorns stacks with modified saves. So a group of 12 dryads, in the woods (cover), with mystic shield on them would save wounds on a 2+. And if that save roll is 3+ or better it does a mortal wound back.

It's absolutely brutal.

Is the idea here analogous to getting a +1 to hit w/ Retributors and thus triggering Blast to Ashes on a 5 or more? Do you recall where in the rules/FAQ this is specified? Stacking Shield of Thorns with modified saves sounds amazing, but it also sounds like something your fellow player would want clarified before they go along with it.

[MidasKiss]

36 minutes ago, scrubyandwells said:

Is the idea here analogous to getting a +1 to hit w/ Retributors and thus triggering Blast to Ashes on a 5 or more? Do you recall where in the rules/FAQ this is specified? Stacking Shield of Thorns with modified saves sounds amazing, but it also sounds like something your fellow player would want clarified before they go along with it.

Just did a dig in the FAQ. on page 6 under the abilities heading:

"Q. Several abilities trigger when you roll a 6 or more - will a positive or negative modifier from a spell or ability affect this?
A. Yes. A 6 with a -1 modifier would become a 5, for example."

That's delicious filth that is, it's almost a shame that it was realised online for all to see haha.

[Forestreveries]

32 minutes ago, MidasKiss said:

Just did a dig in the FAQ. on page 6 under the abilities heading:

"Q. Several abilities trigger when you roll a 6 or more - will a positive or negative modifier from a spell or ability affect this?
A. Yes. A 6 with a -1 modifier would become a 5, for example."

That's delicious filth that is, it's almost a shame that it was realised online for all to see haha.

Yeah it's *really* good! 

A briarsheath Treelord / Durthu and another with Oaken Armour and this spell make an amazing combo. 

 

Aaron