Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[Jorthax]

Thanks for the support guys, I'll edit this post later tonight with some more details and short battle reports/lists etc  

[DantePQ]

5 hours ago, Aezeal said:

So with the lower prices on the sc bigger packs.. do you think our pricy revenants or even the hunters might get the same treatment?

doubt it, without something new for Sylventh they won't be changing anything also I guess Sylventh sells much better then Stormcast. 

[scrubyandwells]

Hi all, if you were creating a list of top tips for playing Sylvaneth competitively (especially in game tips), what would be on your list? Ideas are being compiled and attributed for an upcoming Warhammer Community article.

[Aezeal]

2 hours ago, scrubyandwells said:

Hi all, if you were creating a list of top tips for playing Sylvaneth competitively (especially in game tips), what would be on your list? Ideas are being compiled and attributed for an upcoming Warhammer Community article.

Not forgetting all your special abilties

Last game I:

- I forgot my RR 1 saves whole game

- forgot nearly all Dryad -1/+1 hit abilities.

- Forgot TLA stomp whole game.

IT does not help.

[Sneak]

I've been inspired to play a hunters heavy list. But I really hate the dryads. do I "have" to play them?

[Aezeal]

32 minutes ago, Sneak said:

I've been inspired to play a hunters heavy list. But I really hate the dryads. do I "have" to play them?

Why do you hate dryads?

The models are nice and they are a good anvil and objective defender.

You don't have to play them.. your alternative is going Treerevenants (which I like less as battleline unit.. I like 1 unit of them.. MAYBE 2). Or you would have to go play order with Hunters and take something else as battleline.. but that means no sylvaneth allegiance, no spells etc.

[Nick in York]

45 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Not forgetting all your special abilties

Yeah - this. I've only played a couple of games of AoS so far but have started putting together crib sheets for all the abilities I can potentially use each phase.

[Sneak]

24 minutes ago, Aezeal said:

Why do you hate dryads?

The models are nice and they are a good anvil and objective defender.

You don't have to play them.. your alternative is going Treerevenants (which I like less as battleline unit.. I like 1 unit of them.. MAYBE 2). Or you would have to go play order with Hunters and take something else as battleline.. but that means no sylvaneth allegiance, no spells etc.

I just hate the models lol but yeah would have to use revenants

 

[Aezeal]

You could probably convert the revenants to dryads (add some oftheir sticks).. or use revenant heads on the dryads.. depending on what you find most offensive about the dryads.

[Jorthax]

OK so a brief run down. My life was Gnarlroot with Alarielle, so one Branchwych , TLA , 10 / 10 / 5 Dyrad/Dryad/Rev and then 3 x Scythe / 3 x Scythe / 3 x Bow. The thinking behind 2 scythe squads was because Alarielle gave me more ranged power with Metamorphosis and her Spear. I also knew both death lists love Morghast Archai and I needed something to fight them.

1 Death list was - 4 Archai, Manfred, Akkan, zombie x 10 x 3 , 3 spirit hosts, mournghoul 

Another death list was - VLOZD (red fury) , Vamp on Abysall Terror, 4 x Archai , zombie x 10 x 3 (I hate there super cheap BL tax) mournghoul 

A standard stormcasts brotherhood list, although this guy is very new and he wasn't so great at his drops

Ironjaws, 2 x shaman list with the weirdnob battalion and a balewind 

Khorne list, double bloodsecrator + 2x10 skull taker squads, Valkia and Skarbrand

 

Game 1 : Against the VLOZD: Comet battleplan, I got lucky on the landings. He charged the VLOZD with double move into 3 scythes in a forest with MS on them at my comet, and they held him there all battle... with some crazy saving stopping red fury triggering and heals. My scythes and treelord killed the Archai and never underestimate the stomps from Kurnoth and the power of awakening woods, the constant MW's are amazing even against crazy death saves. I won the game on Turn 5 by capping his comet. Very close game but we felt he didn't use his 4 Archai well as I pincered them both sides to minimise attacks with Dryad chaf, Tree Rev's always threatening to teleport was also great.

Game 2 : Against the Ironjaws, I actually drew this due to a complete mistake on my part. I completely underestimated the power of a shaman on balewind, he rolled +2 MW on his battalion , then cast foot @ 36" on Alarielle after I hit him for 5 wounds with the spear in turn 1 (1w off the kill). He stomped and got a 6, 8 MW instantly on her, then he got a 4+ and stomped again, scoring a 3 making 5 more, 13 MW in one round... OUCH. I teleported away via the woods but he dropped off the balewind, summoned it with another, I healed only 2 wounds on 2d3 and then he bolted me for d3+2 again and got a 5. Killing her outright. The rest of the battle I slaughter orcs in revenge with scythes and in the end I killed exactly 620 pts, and he did the same. Draw. I lost all 4 init rolls this battle!

Game 3 : Against the other Death army, he'd won his previous 2 games so this would decide the tournament. I did a single drop with forests on Places of Power. Taking 2 points instantly. I one rounded Akkan with a TLA shot, 6dmg (so lucky I know) and 3 bow Kurnoths killed him, it was glorious. Curse of Years scared the crap out of me as it's one shot a treeman in the past so I alpha'd him out. 3 scythes protected Alarielle's front briefly but the Archai got them, slightly bad tree positioning but I covered around her as best I could. In the end she died turn 3 but I was too far ahead at that point. His army list was bad for this plan as he only had the 2 heroes of which one died instantly. But overall the trees held strong and there was a lot of death but TLA with Gnarled + Oaken was invulnerable, especially getting stomps on the Mornghoul. 

 

Overall I love Alarielle, she draws SO much attention because you either kill her, or don't bother because 2d3 + d6 (regrowth) heal she can regenerate a crazy amount of health, in a previous friendly she took 31 damage and ended the fight on 9W remaining once. This means that my scythes are free to wreck people. Throne + Meta I pulled off a 15 dice Meta with Arcane once and it was glorious. 

Changes to the list? I would take the seed not the circlet on the Wych, because I want that free forest at the start for shenanigans. I would be tempted to make the scythes one squad of 6. I never felt I wanted the bows to be honest. Although 6 is less flexible I feel... 

Hope someone enjoys the read

 

[Jorthax]

On a different tangent. Given the new Fyreslayer costs (and them being my first AoS list) I think Ironbark "might" be more playable now, 2 units of Zerkers or maybe even a Magmadroth at those prices... I really want to make it work even with that bloody treelord.

[Sneak]

17 hours ago, Aezeal said:

You could probably convert the revenants to dryads (add some oftheir sticks).. or use revenant heads on the dryads.. depending on what you find most offensive about the dryads.

cool ideas ty! 

[doloj001]

LVO (Las Vegas Open) 2017 lessons:

Here's my army list. Note these were the only models that I had to tournament standard.

Gnarlroot Wargrove

Household

TLA w/ Gnarled Warrior & Oakenshield

T-Revnant x5

Branchwych w/ Acorn 

Durthu x1

Kurnoth w/ bows x3

Kurnoth w/ swords x3

Kurnoth w/ scythes x3

Dryads x10 

Dryads x20

Loremaster x1

Total 2k

No sideboard, wish I did. My focus was a balanced list for the tournament.

1. Never over extend your army. T'was a noobish mistake that cost me take and hold to a minor loss. Clan Skyre dumped all of its mortal wounds on durthu on turn one, since my durthu was so far out after teleporting with no chaff.

2. Go crazy with the woods and the earlier they are out the better. 

3. A drove of Dryads, >12 models, in the woods is a durable objective holder. Support them with a mystic shield and verdurous harmony and you will have a wall. Even Kunnin Ruk couldnt drive them away from an objective in border war.

4. Target priority, e.g. snipe those important heroes and leaders.

5. Know when to go first or when to go second. Ive played scenarios where going first benefitted me greater than going second. 

6. Have fun. I ended up going 3 major Wins, 1 major Loss, 2 minor Losses. 

[Mirage8112]

On 2/7/2017 at 11:15 AM, scrubyandwells said:

Hi all, if you were creating a list of top tips for playing Sylvaneth competitively (especially in game tips), what would be on your list? Ideas are being compiled and attributed for an upcoming Warhammer Community article.

1. Know your opponents.

It pays to spend a little time looking through the AoS app before your match and reading the unit entries for your opponent. Theres nothing worse than sending a unit against it's hard counter, or realizing a unit can activate twice, or getting your positioning just perfect and forgetting your opponent can make a free move in the hero phase. 

2. Don't be afraid to take a charge. 

Generally speaking, you want to be the player who decides when and where to get into combat (especially since some units get bonuses on the charge). But that's not always the case. A group of dryads in a wood are stupidly resilient, and if backed up by a group of hunters and TLA they turn into a complete deathtrap. 2" reach on 3 hunters with scythes can easily reach over a single line of dryads. If your opponent only has a 1" reach on his weapons he'll be forced to attack the dryads and suffer the -1 to hit penalty leaving your hunters totally free to attack back. If you have a TLA within 3" and you roll well for stomp (4+) that puts them at -2. 

Furthermore if your enemy does have a 2" reach on that charging unit, you can easily put your hunters 1.5" behind the dryads. Since he'll be able to activate the charging unit first (and he probably will), he'll still be forced to attack the dryads since the hunters will be out of range (2.5" away).  Then when it comes time to activate your unit, you'll be able to pile in and attack without fear of reprisal. (You also won't have to use their tanglethorn thicket since they won't be in range; there's no need to reroll armor saves if nothing can reach them).

3. Cover the board with woods if you can.

Literally. Put down as many woods in the first turn as you possibly can.

Between the free wood, the acorn, silent communion (TLA ability), and verdant blessing, you can easily get 3-4 woods on the table (3 bases each!) before the end of your first hero phase. They are annoying as hell to play against (the enemy will be severely constrained in his abilities to cast spells, run charge and hold territory). Plus, there is literally no downside for you. 

4. Don't overlook the chaff 

An MSU (multiple small unit) list is very powerful if you know how to use chaff. It works very well vs small model count armies or horde armies, since they have to stop their move in order to kill a small unit. If you're liberal with your tree placement, a group of 5 revenants can be literally anywhere on the board whenever you need them to be, and if you know (roughly) how fast a unit can move, you can place them in a way that forces the enemy to go around them or through them. That's an extra turn to shoot, bring something into play to counter, or an extra turn to score on an objective. Sure they'll die. But sometimes the difference between a win and loss is the ability to hold an objective a little longer than your opponent can. 

5. Try to remember all the phases your units can act in and plan accordingly. 

Often in a gnarlroot battalion I'll take a branchwraith as an acorn caddy, so I can drop a second guaranteed forest in my first turn. But a lot of the time after I drop it, She just hangs out in the back not really doing anything. Thanks to the rule of 1's, I can only cast mystic shield once (same with arcane bolt) so why bother right?

Well, having a 100 points just sitting in your backline isn't the most efficient use of your list. That wraith could easily be up with a group of dryads (enemies are also at -1 to hit her if she's near a wood, where your dryads should be anyway.) and while she might not directly contribute to magic, it's not a bad idea to have an extra wizard around to unbind spells. Also, if you've already cast bolt and shield she can still cast "Roused to wrath". You might not be able to actually place any dryads (unless you've reserved the points for them, which you probably haven't) but a successful spell cast still give an extra chance to activate the Wyldwood's "Roused by magic" on a  5+. That's basically a 1:3 chance of causing D3 wounds to everything not Sylvaneth within 3" of the wood. If you happen to have a Branchwytch or TLA nearby, that's near a statistical certainty the wood will go off at least once. Plus, if you're running a Gnarlroot list where each wizard can cast 2 spells, it's very likely it will go off twice. 2D3 mortal wounds per unit within 3" is nothing to sneeze at. 

6. Board control. 

I'll only say this once. No other army in the game is as efficient as Sylvaneth at board control. If you put a fair amount of forests on the board it's very easy to channel the enemy where you want them to go, and punish them if they try to fight you in the woods. Monsters and hero's don't suffer quite the same as regular units do, but lone hero's and monsters will have a tough time shifting a group of 20 dryads out of a forest. 

7. Beware your weaknesses, but don't be afraid to use the sacrifice play. 

Ranged mortal wounds are not your friend. Our characters are big juicy targets and suffer brutally at the hands of ranged mortal wounds. Durthu, the TLA and Drycha are prime targets for a ranged assault. You can reduce their effectiveness by careful placement, but always have a back-up plan in case something gets through. If you're careful, you can consider allowing an important unit to be destroyed if you can get your opponent to overcommit in the process. The conditions have to be right, so use that tactic with great caution, but sometimes sacrificing a unit in order to bait the enemy into a bad position can open up a hole in the enemy's line.

@scrubyandwells Hope that helps bud. 

-F



 

[Mossback]

Anyone think we might get some new Sylvaneth models this year? We really have only nine options, not counting the one off Alarielle and Drycha. With the Stormcasts having so many troop options, it would be nice to add in some variety. Maybe some sort of medium range javelin throwers or swarms of shrubs like Nurglings. Thoughts?

[Shorewood]

25 minutes ago, Mossback said:

Anyone think we might get some new Sylvaneth models this year? We really have only nine options, not counting the one off Alarielle and Drycha. With the Stormcasts having so many troop options, it would be nice to add in some variety. Maybe some sort of medium range javelin throwers or swarms of shrubs like Nurglings. Thoughts?

Working with the life healing theme, perhaps a unit that heals 1 or 1d3 wounds if it is within 3" of a sylvaneth Wyldwood.  Sort of a medium independent tank.  

Or better yet, A Kurnoth Hunter hero unit to fill the void between super expensive treemen and flimsey wizards as your heros.  

[Paul G]

Kurnoth Hunter hero would be amazing! Cavalry of some kind would be cool!

[Rhellion]

10 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

1. Know your opponents.

 

hopefully you get credit in the article.

[Aezeal]

On 7-2-2017 at 11:07 PM, Nick in York said:

Yeah - this. I've only played a couple of games of AoS so far but have started putting together crib sheets for all the abilities I can potentially use each phase.

Please share

[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, Paul G said:

Kurnoth Hunter hero would be amazing! Cavalry of some kind would be cool!

Wardroths ridden by kurnoths hunter hero's.  Except there are no heroes in the fluff.. they look alike and no one can even say who their leader is.

[Paul G]

Sure but fluff always develops / changes! @Aezeal

[Aezeal]

True, but regular hunters on Wardroths would be OK with me too.

Id like spite swarms though... different sorts of sites and all with a simple low casting value spell and some weak combat abilities. 

[Nico]

On 2/5/2017 at 3:14 AM, Mirage8112 said:

Dreadwood is basically our most viable "kill them before they do anything" alpha-strike list. 

It's a very very aggressive way to play that's basically high-risk / high-reward. I'm sure other people have thought of using it, but the list Nico quoted below came out of some theory crafting sessions with @scrubyandwells for a podcast we did a while back. It's gone through a few evolutions, and at @Nico's suggestion of adding Alarielle, the current "best" list is as follows:

I've done all the math on the variations, and this one puts out the most amount amount of damage possible in the first combat phase; ~40 wounds, most at -2 rend. That's pretty much enough to kill any big monster or unit, and possibly cripple 4-5 before the first full turn of the game. The main damage dealers are the hunters with scythes, with Alarielle as a support/horde clearer. The outcasts are there to camp objectives, and the T-rev are there for chaff to either redirect enemies away from objectives, or to harry & harass. 

The list puts out a big punch in the first round, and will positively destroy anything it's put up against. Providing:

1. You get first turn
2. The opponent deploys on the table 
3. it might struggle slightly vs death/demon armies. 

1. It's important you get first turn for this list to work in an optimum way. you can still alpha-strike if you don't get firs turn, but it's a bit more risky and you have to be dead certain about what targets you pick. Put those hunters in the wrong place and it's game over. 

2. You obviously can't alpha strike what not on the table. Really the only army that this would be a problem with is stormcast with their lightning strike. It's not a total deal breaker but it's an uphill battle. 

3. This isn't too much of a problem, but this army does try to take advantage of low bravery. Since undead and demons both have bravery 10, this is stymied a bit. But the alpha strike component works so well, it might not be an issue. 

Hope that helps. 

  

 

One further tweak if you want even more alpha is to give Alarielle Throne of Vines instead of Regrowth.

After having put herself 16" forward before the game starts properly (so just out of the unbinding range of their pro wizard). She casts that and gets average +2 or hopefully +3 to cast roll for herself, for her next two spells. Then she casts Metamorphosis (potentially on a 2+). Ideally have her touching some Arcane Terrain in the middle of the table somewhere too. The spell then does 0.5*(the result of the casting roll) of mortal wounds at a target. Hence, with +3 to cast, she could do a jolly 0.5*(12+3) = 7.5 mortal wounds at 16" range. Depending on how that goes, she can then cast either bolt as final spell or mystic shield with +1, +2 or +3 to cast, to put herself on a 2+ save reliably. #MysticShieldWinsGames

Also take the Damned Buff from any terrain in the middle of the board and then heal herself with Amphorae as well.

 

 

[Nico]

Also brace yourselves for the LoC with his 27" unbinding bubble of ruining Sylvaneth's day. I rolled out the Disciples of Tzeentch yesterday to horrible effect vs Sylvaneth at the South London Legion vs Ben Savva. This will be even worse with the Changehost+Changeling so they can teleport the LoC into casting and unbinding range turn one (and potentially match you single drop army for single drop army). This is on top of summoning a cheap inbinding wizard into range of your wizard (and relying on destiny dice as a guaranteed unbind). It's a really interesting match up (since Kurnoth Bow Hunter spam taking turn one is the hard counter to the LoC (or LoCs) and his posse of horrific wizards (before they can get Shield of Fate, Mystic Shield, Daemonic Power and Mystic Shield and Oracular Visions on). 

[scrubyandwells]

On 2/8/2017 at 2:40 AM, Jorthax said:

Hope someone enjoys the read

Big time! Thank you!