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Let's Chat Sylvaneth


scrubyandwells

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Sneak peeks for Tzneetch arcanites dropped today (from GW no less). Besides 27" unbinds, an AWESOME "choose your dice roll" mechanic they revealed this little gem below.

With similar hit/wound rolls as hunters a 24 inch range, move 16" AND fly, these guys looks like a very attractive answer to our bow hunters. Add to that D3 mortal wounds on a hit roll of 5+ (next to a hero). With ability to change that into an auto hit and auto 3 mortal wounds if they like no less. I'm also guessing (if the previous releases are an indication) 180pts. 
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One thing of particular note here is the wording on the unit champion.
It says he hits in a 3+ rather than a 4+ rather than just saying he can add 1 to his to hit rolls.

They've obviously thought about him getting the mortal wounds on a 5+ and written that out.

I can see this being implemented across the board in future releases.

Which is interesting.


Sent from the Hidden Enclaves via the Realmroots
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There are some units in the game that ignore -1 rend. But it isn't an overwhelming  amount of units. There are plenty of instances where the extra attacks by sword hunters beat out the additional -1 rend.

This is of course true. However, these units are the ones that I need to worry about. If I'm losing to bodies it's because I've played the game wrong (e.g. attacked a huge block of 40 Skeletons with buffs), don't have Drycha and Squirmlings, or am against a good Moonclan/Gitmob opponent.

Everything else can be beaten (less efficiently by Scythe Hunters) or just ground down by deceptively good Dryads (especially with Winterleaf and especially against Chaos). 

Incidentally Winterleaf just got a whole lot better given that a wave of DoT will be coming our way and you can stick any Order Unit into it (like a Prayermobile - War Altar or a Bastiladon).

When you play an event and come up against 4 out of 6 opponents each of whom had at least one Tusk and one Horn (of various breeds) - the other one only had a Mourngul and one other player played mono-Nurgle @Leonardas, you start ignoring the "normal" units and focussing on what you need to beat the perceived filth, the meta etc..  Having -2 rend on a few units (not just on Durthu) is a big part of that.

Sword Hunters aren't going to help you against 40 Arrerboyz (Hunters are on 4+ save without a reroll in the shooting phase - hint they don't like being shot at!), Drycha might help you on the other hand.

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Scythe hunters in 3's have a more specialized role. They are basically tin-can openers, which is awesome if your fighting an army full of tin cans. But if your fighting a high-body count (or high wound count) army, Sword hunters outperform Scythe hunters. 

I'm relying on Squirmlings to be the answer to big blocks. Perhaps I should have mentioned this earlier.

That said, 20 Dryads in cover with the Ancient's command ability are at least a stalemate against most blocks (that aren't turbo charged e.g. with extra rend from Sneaky Stabbing etc.).

 

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If you have to roll all the attacks for a unit of 6 Scythe hunters and then roll a 1 on a single d3, that's massive. Makes them so much more swingy and I would defo consider switching to swords or at least having a mix of this is the case. 

This still doesn't seem to be clear in the FAQ. It might settle down within a few hours hopefully.

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If you have to roll all the attacks for a unit of 6 Scythe hunters and then roll a 1 on a single d3, that's massive. Makes them so much more swingy and I would defo consider switching to swords or at least having a mix of this is the case. 
This still doesn't seem to be clear in the FAQ. It might settle down within a few hours hopefully.

I've just seen bj confirm that it is one dice for the entire unit.


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Frankly I'm calling that a buff to Gordrakk. Presumably the same logic would carry over to say D3 mortal wounds as well. So could be 15 mortal wounds from Kunnin' vs a Wizard if I rolled five 2+ hit rolls, 5 4+ wound rolls and then a 5 or a 6. I'll take that.

 

 

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Q: Several abilities allow a unit to make a move ‘as though it were the movement phase’. Does this allow them to make use of abilities or special rules that normally only apply in the movement phase? For example, in the hero phase a unit of Kurnoth Hunters in a Free Spirits Battalion can move as though it were the movement phase. Would this allow them to make use of the Forest Spirits battle trait, where a unit can be transported to the battlefield in the movement phase?

 

A: No, it does not. All it means is that the move is made as though it were the movement phase, so the distance the unit moves will be based on its Move characteristic, it can’t move within 3" of an enemy model, it can run and retreat (but if it does so it will have counted as having run or retreated for the rest of the turn), and so on.

Furthermore, abilities that specifically state they can only be used in a certain phase can only be used in that phase and/or their effects will only apply in that phase. So, if an ability says you can use it in your movement phase, it can only be used and its effects will only apply in your movement phase, if it says it can be used in your shooting phase, you can only use it and its effects will only apply in your shooting phase, and so on.

 

 

 

so that answers that question i guess. 

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I certainly didn't expect the FAQ to come out before Christmas.

By the way, since they've crushed Free Spirits (fair enough) and Sneak Attack (brutal unjustified nerf) into the ground with the FAQ, I'm not calling Navigate Realmroots a retreat until otherwise FAQed against me. 

Be happy you don't play Death - every change a nerf (even Zombros got nerfed). I play all 4 Grand Alliances.

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I thought the FAQ pretty much covered anything that gets you out of combat is now a retreat? Wouldn't that include Realm Roots, or am I just oversimplifying. I'd love to also play that it doesn't count as a retreat but feel like I'm going to be arguing 1 vs 4 in my friendship group as no one else plays Sylvaneth. 

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Navigate Realmroots is a set-up not a move. It triggers Gryph Hounds for example! All my arguments still stand.

If anything the fact that these new FAQs start off by referring very expressly to "move" and are very specific to "moves" and have a prominent table of "moves"; and the "set-up" rule hasn't been touched at all reinforces my key point that the rules of the game are designed to put a bright line between moves and set-up rules (at least on an initial reading).

 

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@Nico I agree and will use this defence myself when I surely get rule lawyered , I'm hoping to contribute a bit more here as I've been playing a fair few battles lately with Sylvaneth as I completed my army recently. We have 5 players in our local group, Ironjaws(BCR seconday)/Sylvaneth(sec. Fyreslayers)/Death/Death/Stormcast so have a fair mix of play.

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They should have just made Free Spirits much more expensive.

Now working out which abilities and buffs do or do not work when facing the Kunning Rukk is going to require a lot of work. Your shields that only work in the shooting phase will not work for example in the deemed shooting phase in their hero phase for example.

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@Nico I agree and will use this defence myself when I surely get rule lawyered , I'm hoping to contribute a bit more here as I've been playing a fair few battles lately with Sylvaneth as I completed my army recently. We have 5 players in our local group, Ironjaws(BCR seconday)/Sylvaneth(sec. Fyreslayers)/Death/Death/Stormcast so have a fair mix of play.

Welcome to the Les Martin Clump (as it's now called). Good to hear about local communities. Where might you be? Fyreslayers for the win! That's really varied.

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Thanks for the welcome :)

Hereford based, we have a local small model shop but my living room is a dedicated battle room (bachelor in a house) so we play quite regular and have our own mini tournaments. We're all playtesting before an internal 2k round robin we hope to have over the Xmas break.

I started Fyreslayers but was overall a little disappointed in the big monsters (although I love the model), now I'm hoping to make Ironbark work when we get some more Duradin. Love the Vulkites and Zerks tho. I've been a Dwarf player since I was about 9 (33 now....) I've got Ironbreakers older than some of my friends... 

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To remain on topic I've been playing this lately. I feel I need 2 x Scythes rather than 2 x Bow as I lack close combat units. It seems to be doing OK and I just love the pulse heal from Alarielle on 3-5 targets if they are taking chip damage. I just wish there was a way to fit Drycha in as I love her too...

Got a 14 dice Metamorphosis off yesterday... that was fun :)

Leaders
Alarielle the Everqueen (Throne) (620)
Alarielle the Everqueen
Treelord Ancient (Regrowth) (300)
Treelord Ancient
- General
- Trait: Gnarled Warrior 
- Artefact: Briarsheath 
Branchwych (Verdant) (100)
Branchwych
- Artefact: The Silverwood Circlet 

Units
Dryads x 10 (120)
Dryads x 10 (120)
Tree-Revenants x 5 (100)
Kurnoth Hunters x 3 (180)
- Scythes
Kurnoth Hunters x 3 (180)
- Scythes
Kurnoth Hunters x 3 (180)
- Greatbows

Battalions
Household (20)
Gnarlroot Wargrove (80)

 

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I started Fyreslayers but was overall a little disappointed in the big monsters (although I love the model), now I'm hoping to make Ironbark work when we get some more Duradin. Love the Vulkites and Zerks tho. I've been a Dwarf player since I was about 9 (33 now....) I've got Ironbreakers older than some of my friends... 

I can only think 30 Vulkites plus a Runesmiter.

However, I cannot see any way in which the Treelord you have to take is just a horrible tax (since it cannot take an artefact). Household with Ancient being exclusive to Gnarlroot is quite frustrating as it pushes everyone even harder towards that route.

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2 hours ago, Nico said:

I certainly didn't expect the FAQ to come out before Christmas.

By the way, since they've crushed Free Spirits (fair enough) and Sneak Attack (brutal unjustified nerf) into the ground with the FAQ, I'm not calling Navigate Realmroots a retreat until otherwise FAQed against me. 

Be happy you don't play Death - every change a nerf (even Zombros got nerfed). I play all 4 Grand Alliances.

I'm still looking through the FAQ and the posts here.

That FAQ is pretty harsh with regard to "as if it were the movement phase". But that's why we have fAQ. Sometimes RAW does not get RAI across. Still  brutal nerf tho and pretty much makes Gnarlroot our main battalion for competitive play (with Winterleaf being a close second.) I'm still sort of sure dreadwood could be used, but not as I intended to play it.  

As to retreat, looking at some of the wording, it's my bet that if they ruled on that you wouldn't be able to use it to retreat at all. Most of the clarification seems to be that the core rules are more iron-clad than I thought; with phases being more restrictive of what you can do. Based on that I agree with you now that retreating "is only a move". But now the "what is a move" question seems to imply that only "regular moves" allow you to retreat. 

All these FAQ's seem to have gone against us. 

And WTF is with Scythes now? i didn't expect that. I also assume that goes for Bows as well. Over the course of the game it's nearly the same amour too damage, but really makes them unpredictable. On another note, it makes the new Bow Tzaangors a lot more powerful, since you can sub a fate dice for damage on the entire unit. 

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8 hours ago, Forestreveries said:

One thing of particular note here is the wording on the unit champion.
It says he hits in a 3+ rather than a 4+ rather than just saying he can add 1 to his to hit rolls.

They've obviously thought about him getting the mortal wounds on a 5+ and written that out.

I can see this being implemented across the board in future releases.

Which is interesting.


Sent from the Hidden Enclaves via the Realmroots

 

 


I think they wrote it that way because of the buff they get from being next to a Tzaangaor shaman, and though one model putting mortal wounds through on 4+ was too much. Or maybe they wanted the whole unit to put mortal wounds through on the same number? 

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11 minutes ago, Knight of Ruin said:

So, if i were to get a darkroot wargrove for christmas.. What dhall i build the 6 hunters? 3 scythes 3 bows was my initial thought.

This FAQ has really changed the debate around Scythes IMO. On paper, they are still just as good and do just as much damage. The only problem is Mathhammer focuses on averages. 

Scythes are really unpredictable now since you roll 1 die for the D3 damage across the unit. Same with bows.

Bows have the advantage of being our only real ranged damage (vs. magic) so their unpredictability isn't much of an issue, since there aren't any alternatives for ranged support (other than magi). I still think Greatswords are a viable option (nothing has changed with them) but to get any consistency out of Scythes you'll have to roll 2 groups of 3 and move them around the table as 1 unit, since rolling for each group will offset the random damage a bit if you get a bad roll. 

As I said before, it depends on the rest of your army which (bows, scythes, swords) is best. 

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