Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[Freejack02]

3 hours ago, IndigoGirls said:

Bow kurnoth hunters still have their place but may continue to be a bit over priced (not sure a 20 pt drop covers the now -1 to hit on the characters they used to feast on).

Agree here, LOS! hurts them quite a bit in their primary role, and a 4 to hit was already painful enough. I'm interested to see how Sylvaneth players deal with it. 

 

3 hours ago, IndigoGirls said:

If you want melee kurnoths don't take swords, scythes are plain better.

They are both very good, and both have their place (not trying to start a debate, as there have been long discussions on this topic in this thread's history). Each are extremely viable.

 

 

 

[DantePQ]

I agree that Bow Hunters got hit pretty hard with LookOut sir rules but Sylvaneth needs them a lot. Still the major thing that hold down Sylvaneth are pretty bad spells, Gnarlroot would be amazing but some spells aren't very viable. 

[a74xhx]

1000 points question. I've got a TLA  and branchwych.  Stuck as to what to take with them. The obvious choices are:

1. Reaping + circlet.  Nasty attack. Probably on the TLA

2. Verdant blessing.  More woods. But does TLA already have me covered?

3. Regrowth. For healing.

Sadly can only have 2 of these. Which should I get?

Will have ghyran on my TLA general for trickle healing. This is 1e ghb2017.

 

 

 

[Alexxk]

Hi guys!

I want to start with AoS again, after playing 40k for about a year.

What are the choices for allies? Should we jsut ignore them or is there something good we can get? I guess sisters of the thorn got worse with the mystic shield nerf. Is there anything in the deepkin arsenal that we want to get? Or from stormcast? I guess that new catapult could be a good choice?

 

Thank you!

[Kelbesq]

I had my first Start Collecting! level game this weekend against a similar point level Stormcast army.     I built my TLA as my general with Gnarled Warrior and The Oaken Armor.    It really frustrated my opponent, so much so that he called it BS after the game was over.   He was a good sport, didn't get upset about it, and went so far as to say he probably would have taken the same trait/artifact too.   Since he is a friend of mine, and likely to be my opponent for the vast majority of my games, I am more interested in good games rather than power-gaming to win.   I don't think he had the tools he needed to deal with in the army he was using.   In the interest of having better games with my friend, I have a few general questions:

• Is a TLA built to be super tanky really that oppressive in the grand scheme of things?
• Do stormcasts have the tools to deal with a super tanky TLA?
• Will this problem go away when we have bigger armies?   We were playing around ~500 points each.
• Are Sylvaneth and Stormcasts as a whole a balanced matchup?

[IndigoGirls]

6 hours ago, a74xhx said:

1000 points question. I've got a TLA  and branchwych.  Stuck as to what to take with them. The obvious choices are:

1. Reaping + circlet.  Nasty attack. Probably on the TLA

2. Verdant blessing.  More woods. But does TLA already have me covered?

3. Regrowth. For healing.

Sadly can only have 2 of these. Which should I get?

Will have ghyran on my TLA general for trickle healing. This is 1e ghb2017.

 

 

 

At 1k points I've had the most luck with verdant and regrowth. Regrowth is great if you're using TLA/Kurnoths. Verdant gives you another 50/50 chance of setting up your first wood (in conjunction with TLA 4+ create). That first wood you bring down (other than the pre game start setup one) is hugely important to the army.

8 hours ago, DantePQ said:

I agree that Bow Hunters got hit pretty hard with LookOut sir rules but Sylvaneth needs them a lot. Still the major thing that hold down Sylvaneth are pretty bad spells, Gnarlroot would be amazing but some spells aren't very viable. 

I think Gnarlroot will be insane if every game is played in a realm with access to that realm's spells. If we're just using basics, Sylvaneth, and endless i agree the number of casts is overkill but extra denies is always good with the 30 in range. Your comment on this is why I think harvestboon wargrove could be very legit.

[Emissary]

Does anyone know if sylvaneth has to do anything to earn summoning points before summoning like some other factions or is it just Allarielle summons 1 unit for free and Branchwraiths can only summon dryads to wyldwoods over 9" from enemies and those are the restrictions to the summoning for us?

[Warboss Gorbolg]

2 hours ago, Kelbesq said:

I had my first Start Collecting! level game this weekend against a similar point level Stormcast army.     I built my TLA as my general with Gnarled Warrior and The Oaken Armor.    It really frustrated my opponent, so much so that he called it BS after the game was over.   He was a good sport, didn't get upset about it, and went so far as to say he probably would have taken the same trait/artifact too.   Since he is a friend of mine, and likely to be my opponent for the vast majority of my games, I am more interested in good games rather than power-gaming to win.   I don't think he had the tools he needed to deal with in the army he was using.   In the interest of having better games with my friend, I have a few general questions:

• Is a TLA built to be super tanky really that oppressive in the grand scheme of things?
• Do stormcasts have the tools to deal with a super tanky TLA?
• Will this problem go away when we have bigger armies?   We were playing around ~500 points each.
• Are Sylvaneth and Stormcasts as a whole a balanced matchup?

It's the points level that you are playing at currently IMO. AOS can still be great fun at that level, but each side has a lot less tools to cover a variety of situations. Behemoths and certain leaders can skew a game more than say, at 2k points. I'm not a Sylvaneth player but maybe just downgrade your TLA until you get to 1k points+  or your friend invests in some additional SCE that match up a bit better.

[Kelbesq]

47 minutes ago, Emissary said:

Does anyone know if sylvaneth has to do anything to earn summoning points before summoning like some other factions or is it just Allarielle summons 1 unit for free and Branchwraiths can only summon dryads to wyldwoods over 9" from enemies and those are the restrictions to the summoning for us?

We have not seen any indication that the Sylvaneth need to earn points before summoning.

[a74xhx]

2 hours ago, IndigoGirls said:

At 1k points I've had the most luck with verdant and regrowth. Regrowth is great if you're using TLA/Kurnoths. Verdant gives you another 50/50 chance of setting up your first wood (in conjunction with TLA 4+ create). That first wood you bring down (other than the pre game start setup one) is hugely important to the army.

Hmm... I don't think I had appreciated how hard the TLA wood summoning was. Thanks!

Verdant is better than taking Acorn of the ages (1 guaranteed wyldwoods)?  That would allow Regrowth and Reaping (but without circlet. bah).

[IndigoGirls]

2 hours ago, a74xhx said:

Hmm... I don't think I had appreciated how hard the TLA wood summoning was. Thanks!

Verdant is better than taking Acorn of the ages (1 guaranteed wyldwoods)?  That would allow Regrowth and Reaping (but without circlet. bah).

I don't rate the Acorn that high in my list previous lists. I also don't feel Reaping is that good so I don't feel bad not  having it. I would recommend oaken or -1 to hit on TLA as your artifact.

Yeah do not trust your TLA to make a forest. 50% chance of success with extremely limited range (all within 15') verdant blessing has more reach (one within 18'). Don't have the book in front of me but I believe those are the numbers.

[swarmofseals]

7 hours ago, Kelbesq said:

I had my first Start Collecting! level game this weekend against a similar point level Stormcast army.     I built my TLA as my general with Gnarled Warrior and The Oaken Armor.    It really frustrated my opponent, so much so that he called it BS after the game was over.   He was a good sport, didn't get upset about it, and went so far as to say he probably would have taken the same trait/artifact too.   Since he is a friend of mine, and likely to be my opponent for the vast majority of my games, I am more interested in good games rather than power-gaming to win.   I don't think he had the tools he needed to deal with in the army he was using.   In the interest of having better games with my friend, I have a few general questions:

• Is a TLA built to be super tanky really that oppressive in the grand scheme of things?
• Do stormcasts have the tools to deal with a super tanky TLA?
• Will this problem go away when we have bigger armies?   We were playing around ~500 points each.
• Are Sylvaneth and Stormcasts as a whole a balanced matchup?

• No
• Yes
• Very much yes
• Difficult to say, but probably

As others have said, a lot of the problem is the points level you are playing at. The regular game doesn't really function well at 500 points. If you want to play with a small model count I'd suggest trying skirmish.

The key to killing that TLA is mortal wounds, and Stormcasts can certainly do that. Paladins with starsoul maces can pump out mortals, as can Vanguard Raptors with longstrikes. There will likely be even more options in the new SCE battletome now that they also have access to magic.

As far as the matchup being balanced, it will likely require some restraint. If the Stormcast player takes a bunch of Knight Heraldors you basically can't win. I think if you both use some common sense and talk things out rather than trying to build a list specifically to beat each other you will have a lot more fun!

[swarmofseals]

10 hours ago, Alexxk said:

Hi guys!

I want to start with AoS again, after playing 40k for about a year.

What are the choices for allies? Should we jsut ignore them or is there something good we can get? I guess sisters of the thorn got worse with the mystic shield nerf. Is there anything in the deepkin arsenal that we want to get? Or from stormcast? I guess that new catapult could be a good choice?

 

Thank you!

It's tough to say. Sylvaneth are a pretty focused faction and thus allies may not work super well depending on how all-in you are going on Sylvaneth style gameplay. That said, there are definitely some combos out there.

Knight Heraldors are obviously high potential given how much terrain we can spit out. They are a bit of a double edged sword, however. The new ballista could be decent as you said but I'm not a bit fan of it. It's reasonably efficient but only at the 18" range and it's suuuuper clunky. 

I disagree that Sisters of the Thorn got worse. It's true that mystic shield changes hurt, but that is more than compensated by the fact that the enemy can no longer elect to not attack. Dryads can still get an easy +1 to save, and +2 with cover is a real possibility. Now any enemy unit in combat with them will be forced to shred themselves. A Household TLA is another good target. It may not be getting cover, but the enemy won't be able to retreat from it either. 

There are some definite candidates for inclusion in the Idoneth list, the most promising of which (imo) is Morrsarr Guard. They are very efficient on offense (better than Kurnoths by a substantial margin), and aren't too inefficient on defense. Sylvaneth are very maneuverable, but largely because of the ability to navigate the realmroots. Sylv lacks flying (for the most part) and raw speed, both of which the Morrsarr Guard feature. If you aren't trying to do a 1 drop list, I'd strongly consider trying some of these out.

Just a quick and dirty comparison with scythe Kurnoths:

• Kurnoths: 8.67 rend 2 damage, plus .5 mortal wounds per Kurnoth that lives to the end of the combat phase
• Morrsarr: 6.22 rend 2 damage, plus 5.33 rend 0 damage, plus 2.5 mortal wounds once per game

Granted this is assuming the Morrsarr are charging, but considering Morrsarr are 20% cheaper with a 14" flying move and rerollable charges I think the comparison looks reasonably favorable. 

[IndigoGirls]

4 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

Just a quick and dirty comparison with scythe Kurnoths:

• Kurnoths: 8.67 rend 2 damage, plus .5 mortal wounds per Kurnoth that lives to the end of the combat phase
• Morrsarr: 6.22 rend 2 damage, plus 5.33 rend 0 damage, plus 2.5 mortal wounds once per game

Granted this is assuming the Morrsarr are charging, but considering Morrsarr are 20% cheaper with a 14" flying move and rerollable charges I think the comparison looks reasonably favorable. 

While I agree that the Morrsarr do more damage than Kurnoths, the Kurnoths are certainly tougher to kill. Their ability to re-roll all failed saves is very powerful and their reach with Scythes means the limited pile in range is often not an issue. Also, Morrsarr fly 14" but Kurnoths can teleport all over. Their movement is more restrictive but not significantly worse.

[a74xhx]

5 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

As others have said, a lot of the problem is the points level you are playing at. The regular game doesn't really function well at 500 points. If you want to play with a small model count I'd suggest trying skirmish.

Problem with Skirmish is (at least for Sylvaneth) you don't get to use any big models. Combat is fairly tedious because no interesting effects and every model is a unit, so you need to do combat individually for each of your dozen or so units. 

The Branchwych spell is extremely broken in skirmish - hits every unit in 9inch, but now every model is a unit. Your opponent is now rolling  multiple dice (in my case 9!) for every model, many of them 1 wound models, giving a mortal wound for every 6 rolled. Massacre!! Basically won me the game in turn 2.

 

[Chris Tomlin]

Morning all,

Thanks for all the great contributions made here. It's been a really good thread (one of the longest!), but the time has now come for this to be locked as we move into the new edition. To continue the Sylvaneth discussion, please head over here....

http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/18311-aos-2-sylvaneth-discussion/

Chris