Let's Chat Sylvaneth

[clubsmash]

Merry Christmas guys,

Just wanted to see you what you guys think of this list?

The loremaster is there to give the Hunters and Durthu real punch!

And the Drycha plus the Spites are there to clear the hordes with  the swarm and hit to bravery.

And then spam woods!

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders
Spirit of Durthu (400)
Branchwraith (80)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Treelord Ancient (300)
- General
- Trait: Gnarled Warrior  
- Artefact: Acorn of the Ages  
- Deepwood Spell: Verdant Blessing
Drycha Hamadreth (280)
- Deepwood Spell: Regrowth
Loremaster (100)
- Allies

Battleline
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
- Sylvaneth Battleline
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
- Sylvaneth Battleline
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
- Sylvaneth Battleline
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
- Sylvaneth Battleline
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
- Sylvaneth Battleline

Units
6 x Kurnoth Hunters (440)
- Greatbows

Scenery
Sylvaneth Wyldwood - Sylvaneth Allegiance (0)
Sylvaneth Wyldwood - Sylvaneth Allegiance (0)
Sylvaneth Wyldwood - Sylvaneth Allegiance (0)
Sylvaneth Wyldwood - Sylvaneth Allegiance (0)
Sylvaneth Wyldwood - Sylvaneth Allegiance (0)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 100 / 400
Wounds: 99
 

[Nico]

Here’s my Dreadwood defence list. 

The plan is to give them turn one and nullify their attacks with the 12” cap and movement of 10 to 15 Spite Revenants 5” forward.

Unfortunately to get some cost efficient long range pew pew the list has to take Allies, meaning that you’re a two drop. This is painful for Sylvaneth as you’re on a Dice off with the Clown Car. Given the Spite Revenants chaff being 17” from your backline (Sneak Attack) you might have to keep Durthu off the table to prevent Skyhook obliteration turn one (Briarsheath will not save him). You might be better off using  Ambush to position a single unit of Spites at a distance such that the Ironclad cannot Zilfin Move from the table so as to get the Arkanauts even closer than 9” from your 12” line. Also watch out for Fleetmaster redeploy).

If they do go first your Raptors are likely dead as they can be targeted.

Winterleaf has the edge vs KO as you can simply go first and flood the board with Dryads so as to zone off the Ironclad from landing anywhere near your key pieces.

 

 

[Aezeal]

On ‎26‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 6:01 PM, clubsmash said:

The loremaster is there to give the Hunters and Durthu real punch!

I think you should read the spell again.... since you refer to Hunters in plural

[Aezeal]

10 hours ago, Nico said:

Here’s my Dreadwood defence list. 

The plan is to give them turn one and nullify their attacks with the 12” cap and movement of 10 to 15 Spite Revenants 5” forward.

Unfortunately to get some cost efficient long range pew pew the list has to take Allies, meaning that you’re a two drop. This is painful for Sylvaneth as you’re on a Dice off with the Clown Car. Given the Spite Revenants chaff being 17” from your backline (Sneak Attack) you might have to keep Durthu off the table to prevent Skyhook obliteration turn one (Briarsheath will not save him). You might be better off using  Ambush to position a single unit of Spites at a distance such that the Ironclad cannot Zilfin Move from the table so as to get the Arkanauts even closer than 9” from your 12” line. Also watch out for Fleetmaster redeploy).

If they do go first your Raptors are likely dead as they can be targeted.

Winterleaf has the edge vs KO as you can simply go first and flood the board with Dryads so as to zone off the Ironclad from landing anywhere near your key pieces.

 

 

Isn't your Durthu very vulnerable against regular armies without gnarled warrior and without oaken armor? I mean even against a -2 rend the oaken armor will make a difference in damage received.. against rend 1 you'll be much more survivable. Especially since you also lack the RR 1's. And if you at worried about the survivability of the raptors: how about bow hunters? how much worse is their damage output?

[Ratatatata]

11 hours ago, Nico said:

Here’s my Dreadwood defence list. 

The plan is to give them turn one and nullify their attacks with the 12” cap and movement of 10 to 15 Spite Revenants 5” forward.

Unfortunately to get some cost efficient long range pew pew the list has to take Allies, meaning that you’re a two drop. This is painful for Sylvaneth as you’re on a Dice off with the Clown Car. Given the Spite Revenants chaff being 17” from your backline (Sneak Attack) you might have to keep Durthu off the table to prevent Skyhook obliteration turn one (Briarsheath will not save him). You might be better off using  Ambush to position a single unit of Spites at a distance such that the Ironclad cannot Zilfin Move from the table so as to get the Arkanauts even closer than 9” from your 12” line. Also watch out for Fleetmaster redeploy).

If they do go first your Raptors are likely dead as they can be targeted.

Winterleaf has the edge vs KO as you can simply go first and flood the board with Dryads so as to zone off the Ironclad from landing anywhere near your key pieces.

 

 

I like the thinking behind the list, but you're yet to sell me on those allies. I do agree the list could use a long-range threat but I'm not sure on the two drops. Seems that it's a huge gamble going two drops, even more so with a dreadwood list. 6 Longstrikes compared to 6 kurnoth hunters is better just compared to each other, but are they really that much better in a dreadwood list?

To be honest I'm not sure about dreadwood at all (altough that's got nothing to do with your list as such). I've been playing a dreadwood list 20-isch games now and while yes, I tend to win a lot of them I still really can't convince myself that the battalion is worth the cost. That's 290 points + the 320 points in spites, and it still gives you a headache if you roll just the one strategem. During GH1 and the first month or so of GH2 it took people by suprise but now the cat is out of the bag and a decent player can work past Dreadwood.

I agree with you that Winterleaf might be the choice of battalions. Or rather, I'm leaning towards just going "****** it" and not using battalions at all (bar the cheap household just to get the second artefact). Recent lists I've made was just household, no other battalions and not a single kurnoth hunter. I've kind of enjoyed that so far, altough none of those lists have gone near a Clown Car yet.

[Lanoss]

3 hours ago, Aezeal said:

I think you should read the spell again.... since you refer to Hunters in plural

Also you can only take a Loremaster in a gnarlroot or winter leaf battalion unfortunately 

Our only allies are Wanderers and Stormcast

[Aezeal]

55 minutes ago, Ratatatata said:

I like the thinking behind the list, but you're yet to sell me on those allies. I do agree the list could use a long-range threat but I'm not sure on the two drops. Seems that it's a huge gamble going two drops, even more so with a dreadwood list. 6 Longstrikes compared to 6 kurnoth hunters is better just compared to each other, but are they really that much better in a dreadwood list?

To be honest I'm not sure about dreadwood at all (altough that's got nothing to do with your list as such). I've been playing a dreadwood list 20-isch games now and while yes, I tend to win a lot of them I still really can't convince myself that the battalion is worth the cost. That's 290 points + the 320 points in spites, and it still gives you a headache if you roll just the one strategem. During GH1 and the first month or so of GH2 it took people by suprise but now the cat is out of the bag and a decent player can work past Dreadwood.

I agree with you that Winterleaf might be the choice of battalions. Or rather, I'm leaning towards just going "****** it" and not using battalions at all (bar the cheap household just to get the second artefact). Recent lists I've made was just household, no other battalions and not a single kurnoth hunter. I've kind of enjoyed that so far, altough none of those lists have gone near a Clown Car yet.

Longstrikes do more damage.. sure and that is their MAIN goal.. so yes it's important. But Hunters are way more survivable.. and what I noticed in his post was something about longstrikes dying when shot at in first turn and giving you 2 drops... seems to me that if you forgo a little bit of damage you'll score a lot better on those points.

I've been playing without batallions mainly in GHB2 and I like it so far. I have been using 40 or 50 dryads and 6 hunters a lot. Mainly melee hunters and in selected cases (KO, skaven shootiness) bowhunters to kill the boat or lightning cannons early. Melee hunter have been surviving for turns against half armies and slaughtering a lot... maybe not always their points worth but if they don't die it's still a big win. They often kill units on objective that dryads then have the bodies to claim (I know.. basic tactics.. but it just works).

Anyway... the dreadwood is very good.. and worth it's points.. but not the points AND the units tax IMHO. 

[Nico]

The Raptors seem helpful because Vanguard Wing is very much an issue - having a few sources of -2 rend or mortal wounds is really key to take out the Castellant or even to chip away Liberators - Bows aren’t going to be particularly effective vs a 2+ Save Castellant (Staunch Defender). On the other hand being able to drop them in to position to shoot the Castellant could really help.

I just don’t see the point of playing Sylvaneth at more than 2/3 drops. Control of turn one and getting woods down is so key.

[Nico]

Briarsheath is significantly better than Oaken Armour in the current meta. -1 to hit is so important (incidentally note the new Nurgle synergy - exploding 6++ to hit spell)!

I don’t see value in the TLA at 300 outside of Gnarlroot (otherwise you don’t even get to use his Awaken spell) and Gnarlroot is a disaster vs Tzeentch.

Everything pushes me towards a Dryad Heavy Winterleaf or possibly Dreadwood List.

[Aezeal]

16 hours ago, Nico said:

Briarsheath is significantly better than Oaken Armour in the current meta. -1 to hit is so important (incidentally note the new Nurgle synergy - exploding 6++ to hit spell)!

I don’t see value in the TLA at 300 outside of Gnarlroot (otherwise you don’t even get to use his Awaken spell) and Gnarlroot is a disaster vs Tzeentch.

Everything pushes me towards a Dryad Heavy Winterleaf or possibly Dreadwood List.

I know briarsheath isn't bad (and possibly better even though in my group I don't think that is the case - IF they put something against my big guys it tends to be chaff.. which isn't worth mentioning OR strong gusy with 3+ to hit and rend 1.. and in that case I think oaken armor will win out against briarsheath) but the gnarled warrior especially saves my general a lot because while rend 2 is always scary... rend 1 is especially scary if you also don't have the oaken armor. 

I think the TLA is still good value because of his command ability (which is also why a few units of hunters are in use)... my big unit of dryads, 20+, in cover with a RR of 1's is significantly more durable than without that command ability. Even in a dryad heavy winterleaf I think that would make the TLA valuable (aside from him being a caster .. which is 80 right then and there, having a strong ranged attack, having strong melee attack even though it drops of a bit too quickly etc etc) I don't play the most competitive guys.. but my TLA only dies regularly when I play against my Khorne opponent with his bloodthirster.

[Jaehaerys]

I'm new to Sylvaneth, recently dabbled with dreadwood for the first time. My scythe hunters completely whiffed their first ever combat for me. Only landed two hits after wound rolls and one of those was saved, so 2 dmg on their first turn. What would you typically do if the opponent chaffs up around all other units? (no gunline behind it)

It's very different to what I'm used to. I normally play Khorne so play 160 odd wounds so having very little is strange.

What do you think of running no battalions?

This  list?

TLA - Oaken Armour/Gnarled/Regrowth

Drycha (flitters) - Dwellers Below

Branchwych - Verdant Blessing 

Waywatcher (ally)

30x Dryad

10x Dryad

10x Tree Rev

6x Hunters (either 6 scythe or split to 3 scythe/3bow 

2x Fulminators (ally)

 

Thought the WW and Bow hunter if i go with them could snipe heroes. While Drycha/Scythe and Fulms do the heavy damage. Dryads to bunker on objectives, not sure about tree revs but thought I could do something with 10. TLA to put against anything with no rend or one rend.

[Aezeal]

1 hour ago, Jaehaerys said:

I'm new to Sylvaneth, recently dabbled with dreadwood for the first time. My scythe hunters completely whiffed their first ever combat for me. Only landed two hits after wound rolls and one of those was saved, so 2 dmg on their first turn. What would you typically do if the opponent chaffs up around all other units? (no gunline behind it)

It's very different to what I'm used to. I normally play Khorne so play 160 odd wounds so having very little is strange.

What do you think of running no battalions?

This  list?

TLA - Oaken Armour/Gnarled/Regrowth

Drycha (flitters) - Dwellers Below

Branchwych - Verdant Blessing 

Waywatcher (ally)

30x Dryad

10x Dryad

10x Tree Rev

6x Hunters (either 6 scythe or split to 3 scythe/3bow 

2x Fulminators (ally)

 

Thought the WW and Bow hunter if i go with them could snipe heroes. While Drycha/Scythe and Fulms do the heavy damage. Dryads to bunker on objectives, not sure about tree revs but thought I could do something with 10. TLA to put against anything with no rend or one rend.

I like it.. it's somewhat similar what I usually play.. well.. except the fulminators and I've only been thinking about the waywatcher.. and my drycha always goes squirmlings.. and I always take 5 revenatns and units of at least 20 dryads  

But I think it could work very well against a lot of casual armies.

[Mirage8112]

On 12/27/2017 at 12:14 PM, Ratatatata said:

I agree with you that Winterleaf might be the choice of battalions. Or rather, I'm leaning towards just going "****** it" and not using battalions at all (bar the cheap household just to get the second artefact). Recent lists I've made was just household, no other battalions and not a single kurnoth hunter. I've kind of enjoyed that so far, altough none of those lists have gone near a Clown Car yet.

Based on my experiences on the tabletop and what I can see from theoryhammer, Winterleaf and Dreadwood are our two best all-around lists. The fact that neither list is 100% foolproof shouldn't be taken as a flaw; instead it should be perceived as a form of balance. No army should have the tactical edge in list building vs every other army in the game. Some match-ups are just plain bad, and every list will find a battleplan it struggles with. 

That being said, both of these lists and their variations handle almost everything in the game. Dreadwood is harder to play well, but it offers more tactical options and more flexibility on the tabletop. I personally value flexibility higher than raw hitting power (although Dreadwood has both under the correct conditions.) Dreadwood also has the benefit that if you don't get first turn, you aren't stuck with whatever deployment choices you've made.  

Winterleaf is in some ways the opposite of Dreadwood in that it isn't terribly flexible in how it's played; put everything down, push half into your enemies face and use the other half to baby-sit objectives. But with an insane number of dryads exploding attacks on 6's, backed by ranged support of some kind, it does a better job countering the armies and battleplans the Dreadwood struggles with. 

I do think battalions are just about mandatory for matched play. Yes, they cost roughly 300 points for the battalions and another 200-300 points in units you might not usually take. But one of the main advantages that Dreadwood and Winterleaf have over the other battalions is the ability to re-deploy/shift units around at some point during the game. Alpha bunkering on an objective before the game starts is an insane benefit, and Winterleaf can even do it mid-game. It also gives you a 50/50 shot at deciding first turn. Which can be crucial as @Nicopointed out.
 

On 12/27/2017 at 12:14 PM, Ratatatata said:

To be honest I'm not sure about dreadwood at all (altough that's got nothing to do with your list as such). I've been playing a dreadwood list 20-isch games now and while yes, I tend to win a lot of them I still really can't convince myself that the battalion is worth the cost. That's 290 points + the 320 points in spites, and it still gives you a headache if you roll just the one strategem. During GH1 and the first month or so of GH2 it took people by suprise but now the cat is out of the bag and a decent player can work past Dreadwood.

The best thing (imho) about dreadwood it is forces your opponent to choose between two bad options (if you decide to use the alpha strike. as Nico mentioned before, there are other ways to play this battalion). In an ideal situation, the alpha strike removes a key unit or two from play first turn, but it's true that a prepared opponent can counter this. But even if you can't wipe something juicy off the board immediately, the prospect of dislodging 6 hunters from your front lines AND tackling a huge block of dryads who have moved/are about to move onto an objective is a night impossible task. Hunters are getting a bad rap because of their cost change and the changing meta, but they are still as resilient as they ever were and still require 2-3 turns of dedicated force to remove completely. Most opponents can choose to remove either the dryads or the hunters, but I can't think of a single army that can effectively do both it in a single turn (that includes Disc. of Tz, although they do come close). Even winterleaf isn't as good at this since its possible you opponent will have an entire first turn before you can use the redeploy ability. If you lose the roll off, it gives him enough time to push in on objectives before you can do anything about it. Dreadwood can do it irregardless of who gets the first turn and that's nothing to sneeze at. 

[Faedryd]

I'd like to hear opinions on the 1,5k Dreadwood list I'm currently working on. I know Dreadwood isn't optimal in a 1,5k list, but I want to gain some experience with it before I've painted a full 2k army (1,5k will be tough enough for the moment, since I haven't painted miniatures in like 15 years). Currently I own two Branchwyches (got a second one for Christmas, which is the only reason why there are two in this list), Drycha, a Treelord kit, a Revenant kit, a Kurnoth Hunters kit and 16 Dryads.

 

Allegiance: Sylvaneth

Leaders

Branchwych (80) - General
Branchwych (80)
Drycha Hamadreth (280)

Units
30 x Dryads (270)
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
5 x Spite-Revenants (80)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (180) - Allies

Battalions
Outcasts (90)
Dreadwood Wargrove (200)

Total: 1500 /1500
Allies: 180 / 400
Leaders: 3/6    Battlelines: 5 (3+)    Behemoths: 1/4    Artillery: 0/4
Wounds: 76

[Nico]

Quote

Based on my experiences on the tabletop and what I can see from theoryhammer, Winterleaf and Dreadwood are our two best all-around lists. The fact that neither list is 100% foolproof shouldn't be taken as a flaw; instead it should be perceived as a form of balance. No army should have the tactical edge in list building vs every other army in the game. Some match-ups are just plain bad, and every list will find a battleplan it struggles with. 

This and the rest of the post is a great analysis of where things stand.

Another point in favour of Winterleaf is the imminent release of Nurgle Maggotkin. Those rerolls are one of the few offensive buffs available to Sylvaneth. Dryads hitting on 3s, rerolling ones and exploding on 5s (in your turn) is a very enticing prospect.

[Jaehaerys]

12 hours ago, Aezeal said:

I like it.. it's somewhat similar what I usually play.. well.. except the fulminators and I've only been thinking about the waywatcher.. and my drycha always goes squirmlings.. and I always take 5 revenatns and units of at least 20 dryads  

But I think it could work very well against a lot of casual armies.

Thanks, so battalions are needed competitively as others mention? Just stick to dreadwood and use non-battalion option for casual?

[Aezeal]

10 hours ago, Jaehaerys said:

Thanks, so battalions are needed competitively as others mention? Just stick to dreadwood and use non-battalion option for casual?

Well I'm not playing competatively so it's hard to judge. I personally see much more potential in my basic list without any batallion than in the very low wound count and low damage output dreadwood list  Nico posted. However.. I've never played dreadwood.. and I don't play tournaments and have a relatively small player base which is mostly casual to play against. 

It's just hard for me to imagine that list doing better than "my" list (which is probably similar to what most casual players use) because BESIDES the alpha strike and the Durthu it it seems to me that that dreadwood list seems to lack... well... everything my list has :D. (Hadn't read mirages most recent post yet before replying - basicly he and nico agree on the things in there so they are probably right... however I just don't see it in my head.. but  I've not played either batallion so who am I :D)

(for reference my list could be something like TLA (oaken armor, gnarled warrior), drycha, a wych, 40 dryads, 5 revenants, 6 hunters (3 sword, 3 scythe) a  TL (or 3 more hunters) and some filling). 

 

[Aezeal]

20 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

Alpha bunkering on an objective before the game starts is an insane benefit,

 

20 hours ago, Mirage8112 said:

Hunters are getting a bad rap because of their cost change and the changing meta, but they are still as resilient as they ever were and still require 2-3 turns of dedicated force to remove completely. 

I completely agree with these remarks.

Getting first turn and getting objectives early can be the only points you win or loose by iin equal games is my experience. 

And hunters just work well for me.. they hardly die... So I have a TLA that hardly dies, hunters that hardly die... giving me good damage output in the later turns when my opponents damage output is dropping significantly.. not to mention it just works for minor victories on kill points.

[eberneman]

Ok so I was told that the point cost for the guarduans od alarielle battallion is 220 plus cost per unit...im new...is that accurate? Because thw warscroll generator on warhammer community point prices it at 220...

[Richelieu]

2 hours ago, eberneman said:

Ok so I was told that the point cost for the guarduans od alarielle battallion is 220 plus cost per unit...im new...is that accurate? Because thw warscroll generator on warhammer community point prices it at 220...

That is correct.  The battalion itself is 220 points, which gets you all the benefits listed on its Warscroll, an additional artifact, and the ability to deploy all the units in the battalion simultaneously.   You must pay separately for each unit that collectively constitute the battalion: e.g. 160 for the judicators, 80 for the branchwraith, etc.

Here is an example Guardians of Alarielle list:

[Craze]

Hi everyone,

I have just started with hobbying recently and want to create my first 1k army, which should then step-by-step be expanded towards a more or less competitive 2k list.

 

Based on models I have available and painted right now I would like to give it a shot with the following list:

Leaders

Branchwych (80)

- General

Spirit of Durthu (400)

Units

Dryads x 20 (200)

Tree Revenants x 5 (80)

Kurnoth Hunters x 3 (220)

980

 

Hunters are still not finished, as I am not sure which weapon makes the best sense to start with.

 

Now a couple of question concerning this list:

- Which artifacts/spells would you suggest?

- Does it make sense at all to run Hunters here or would you prefer increasing the unit Count by adding more Dryads/Revenants instead?

- If running hunters, which weapons would you prefer?

 

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

Cheers

Chris

 

[Aezeal]

Personally, next to a spirit of Durthu I'd take a unit of sword hunters first.. but I'm sure quite a few people here will say go with scythes. And a case for a unit of character sniping hunters with bows can certainly be made since people will have less room for big characters anyway.

I think taking a few hunters does certainly make sense.

On Durthu I'd go Oaken armor/gnarled warrior or Briarsheath/gnarled warrior myself (making him general).

[Craze]

Ok, thanks a lot for you thoughts!

I guess with the Branchwych I will run something that lets me place additional Wyldwoods.

[Aezeal]

On ‎07‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 4:13 PM, Craze said:

Ok, thanks a lot for you thoughts!

I guess with the Branchwych I will run something that lets me place additional Wyldwoods.

being able to place wyld woods early is indeed important.. often after the first enemy turn (and almost certainly after the 2nd all important positions (basicly : near objectives) will be taken by units.

[Craze]

Ok, thanks!

I will now finish painting and will then be (hopefully) wading into battle soon.