2k Ogors

[AmonRa]

So my friend recently traded me his hilariously extensive ogres collection and thought Id make a list. Only played with stormcasts before so let me know where I can improve. 

Tyrant (160)
3 Ogors (120)
3 Ogors (120)
3 Ogors (120)
6 Ironguts (440)
3 Leadbelchers (160)
3 Leadbelchers (160)
Gorger (60)
Thundertusk (320)
Iron Blaster (160)
Giant (180)

Total: 2000

[Chris Tomlin]

Hey,

Looks like a nice solid mixed arms force you have there. The one thing sticking out like a sore thumb to me though is your lack of heroes and magic.

I think adding a BSB and a Butcher could be a nice choice, if you can squeeze the points? Do Ogors have any decent Battalions? Are you purely planning on playing Matched Play Battleplan's with this?

Perhaps the likes of @ChippyRick@Sangfroid and @Soup Dragon can better advise you. We do have some decent Destruction players on this forum!  

[Nico]

I'd drop the Giant and the Iron Blaster and try to make space for a Stonehorn - they are ace.

Is that the cost of a single gorger - painful?

I'd wait until they release details of the new heroes on fluffy monsters for Ogres, before settling your plans. Tyrants and Firebellies are both junk, as are all the Ogres special characters except Golgfag.

[Sedge]

So I'm really enjoying the Ogors as well at the moment. Had a fair few games with most of the unit types. 

The ogors themselves are great for this point level. Depends how you want to run them though. I personally prefer the extra club but the ironfists also has it uses against some opponents. 

The ironguts are amazing. But that is at a very high price I think. 

Leadbealchers. Oh I would so love to love them. Great models but I just find they don't do very much. That 12" d6 shot so rarely comes into use.

thundertusk = wow. It is getting expensive though. I enjoyed running two but I'm rethinking at the moment. 

Ironblaster. Oh dear. What happened to one of my favourite units. 1 shot? Really? Sorry not for me. 

Gorgers are useful but I struggle to understand why they get that 12" deployment rule. 

Still id go for butchers and tyrants as the best characters. Very useful now we have the traits and magic items to beef them up a bit. Even the firebelly is now worth a look. 

[Chris Tomlin]

Ooooo we have a @Sedge now! That's good news.

Cool to hear you are on the Destruction trail (at the gaming table now as well as off it! ).

Nice overview, pretty helpful.

Interesting that there appears to be some differing views on the Tyrant. I'll need to refresh myself with the scroll later.

[Nico]

Quote

Interesting that there appears to be some differing views on the Tyrant. I'll need to refresh myself with the scroll later.

The Tyrant (and the whole Ogre army) doesn't have an offensive (or defensive) buff command ability (and there are no buff spells either). He's fine as a so-so combat unit and tougher than the average general.

[ChippyRick]

That’s a nice all round list as @Chris Tomlin says. 

I would recommend a Butcher 100%. Ogor characters in general are decent with the amount of wounds they have, but having magic in the army is so helpful. Also, as mentioned by @Chris Tomlin, there is a formation you can take if you add a butcher. 

It’s the Gutbuster Wartribe and included a Tyrant, Butcher, 3 units of Ogors, 1 unit of Ironguts and 1 unit of Leadbelchers. As your list has all of this I would take it. It offers mortal wounds on the charge and that’s what Ogors do :).

I completely disagree with the Tyrant not being worth it. I have run him with both double hand weapons and great weapon and both options are great. Recently i have leaned towards the double hand weapons as he re-rolls missed hits and its 3+ to and 3+ to wound with -1 rend / 2 damage. Lightly armoured units with 10 models disappear and he can take hits back with his basic save. If you’re lucky with the big names for a 3+ save and / or a mystic shield he is great.
Also, now with the Generals Handbook, there are options to make him hit and wound better. I have considered running 2 of them with the new scenarios now in the Handbook as he can clear models from objectives on his own removing the ability for your opponent to claim with more models than you within 6" of it.

The only thing i haven’t used from your list is the Ironblaster, and i just don’t see they are good for the points as already mentioned above. For some additional speed i can recommend Sabertusks, and they do hit pretty well to. Not sure on points in the Handbook, but previously using the SCGT / Clash pools they were worth it.

Ogors with 2 hand weapons is also my preferred choice. The other options / rules just don’t stack up as well as what the 2 hand weapons do. Again, ogors hit stuff, just hit more.

Stonehorn / Thundertusk - i have used both a lot and both offer a lot. If you’re only taking one monster in a list i expect it will be a priority target for most of your opponents. With this in mind i would certainly consider the Stonehorn as it has the half wounds so will survive a lot longer. But i can also see the value of the Thundertusk for Damage output from range, which this guy is pretty brutal for whilst at full health. If you’re not getting to use his shooting before being hit, it’s a lot less powerful.

Hope some of that might help!

[Mitzy]

18 minutes ago, Nico said:

The Tyrant (and the whole Ogre army) doesn't have an offensive (or defensive) buff command ability (and there are no buff spells either). He's fine as a so-so combat unit and tougher than the average general.

But he does have the ability to make a unit immune to battleshock which is huge with Ogres.

However, I normally run double Butcher (I never use a BSB) and maneaters (who can be immune to BS). the single best Ogre unit in my opinion are Yehtees I never leave home without 6 

[ChippyRick]

2 minutes ago, Mitzy said:

But he does have the ability to make a unit immune to battleshock which is huge with Ogres.

However, I normally run double Butcher (I never use a BSB) and maneaters (who can be immune to BS). the single best Ogre unit in my opinion are Yehtees I never leave home without 6 

Yes, 6 Ironguts immune to battleshock is sweet.

I have not had chance to run the Yhetees yet but agree these are a good option. 

[Mitzy]

1 minute ago, ChippyRick said:

Yes, 6 Ironguts immune to battleshock is sweet.

I have not had chance to run the Yhetees yet but agree these are a good option. 

the 6" pile in is really good and catches a lot of people out... Well worth using!

[AmonRa]

So much great advice in this thread so thank you all. I'll post later with an updated list. In the meantime feel free to let the ogor tactics discussion continue.

[Nico]

Thinking about Ogres - my mind was drawn to their equivalents in Death - Crypt Horrors for Ogre Bulls and Morghast Archai for Ironguts (indeed I'm painting some Ogres to be Crypt Horrors). There's little doubt as to which are better, both statwise and synergies-wise. This makes me conclude that the Stonehorn and particularly the Thundertusk, as the only distinctive aspects of the Ogre army, are critical to their success.

Comparing Ogres and Crypt Horrors

Both have 5+ saves and 4 wounds and weapon stats.

Crypt Horrors have 1 point of extra movement; bravery 10; regeneration of 1 wound per turn; 6s to wound do 50% more damage; and can reroll hit rolls if near a Ghoul King.

Ogres have a 6+ ward against shooting attacks; and some limited rerolls of 1s to hit and wound. 

Adding in the allegiance abilities gives the Crypt Horrors a 5+ ward versus the D6+2 movement in the hero phase - I'd take the ward save.

The problem for the Ogres is they have literally zero combat synergies for the Ogres (correct me if I'm wrong -  ok they could take Gordrakk for 700 points....). Conversely, the spells from the Ghoul Kings can give a reroll wound aura, an extra attack each or an extra 5+ ward save. Oh and a Necromancer can let them pile in and attack twice....

The outcome is probably much the same for Ironguts and Morghast Archai. Archai are more accurate, faster, have bravery 10, have -2 rend, can fly etc.. They are harder to buff to be fair.

However, the Thundertusk's 6 mortal wound ranged attack and the Stonehorn alpha strike are nearly unique (admittedly the Necrosphinx is a better Stonehorn) and incredibly powerful - witness Paul Whitehead's monster mash list of 3 Thundertusks and 3 Stonehorns. The formation is also brutal.

[Sangfroid]

tyrant is amazing with any load out though I prefer the -2 rend 3 damage double handed weapon. On his own he can wreck face like Ricky said but he is Even better when ran alongside a unit of ogors who can pin the enemy so,he can tack on the side and not get so damaged in return. All of the big names are good in their own way too. The new destruction abilities are going to send these guys up even better (battle brew 4a 2/2-2/3 for example that is going to smart) 

ogors (Bulls) on their own are average and that's exactly their strength in a destruction list they don't have any real synergies outside of the Bsb banner (if it can be taken) butchers cauldron and the new destruction traits, but that's great because you can fling them out and they can do a job without support, 2 blocks of 6 and a tyrant galloping at the enemy or sitting around an objective has to be dealt with, even just 6 ogres can put around 6 wounds on a 4+ save unit (not counting any rerolls) they die easy enough but can be relied upon better than similar cost 5+ Save single or 2 wound units because you have to do 4/8/12/16 wounds to them to reduce the hits back, so they tend (not always) to be a costly unit for the enemy to send their elites in to deal with (240 points of morghast archai will kill 2 or three ogres if they go first, 6 ogres will on average kill one Morghast if they go first) they are also deadly to low save hordes equally as much as they are to high wound elites or even monsters and characters. Units of 6 with two clubs has to be the best load out, reroll 1s to hit and then 1s to wound on the charge, plus with new destruction traits could get these to 3s to hit or even 2s with a butcher and some luck! 

Ironguts are solid and benefit from all the above but get 4+ save -1 rend and 3 damage each and 2" range they are more of a scalpel unit as you are really paying a premium for this (almost 2x that of normal ogors cost) but if you get these guys in the right place, charge and get double turns etc... They can really put a lot of pressure on the enemy, they also work well as a units of 3" pushed up into base contact with a line of normal ogors as a defensive line as they can dig the enemy over there brethrens heads. I haven't oft used leadbelchers because they are very random but also maybe I haven't used them well enough :-)

[Soup Dragon]

Now that Golgfag has points and so is legit again I would look very seriously at using him +6 maneaters. Golgfag + 6 Maneaters = 580 points. If you give the maneaters reroll ones to hit, then Golgfag gives them reroll 1s to wound. This works out as average 33 wounds with -1 rend. In addition they have pistols - that's another average 5 wounds with -1 rend, and Golgfag himself has his attacks for a further 5 wounds plus the outside chance of his pistol wounding too. So that's 43 wounds with -1 rend. In addition, you may be lucky with Golgfags Been There roll and get -3 rend which scares the bejesus out of elite heroes. Compare this to 9 Ironguts, which admittedly have a 4+ armour save, but cost 80 points more and only do average 28 wounds with a -1 rend. I've played this list along with a Thundertusk - oppo's target the Thundertusk, the maneaters get in unchallenged and wreck face. With the new Destruction ability to move D6 +2 in hero phase, they get in even quicker! If you also have a unit of 6 Ironguts, then there are 3 prime targets and oppo's often panic, spread their shooting ineffectually and you get 2 wrecking units in quickly, and still have your character sniper. 

Mortal wounds are huge in the current Meta, so taking a BSB is a great idea. If the BSB is in range, then the maneater list above would do 3 mortal wounds in addition to it's ordinary wounds - and the Ironguts next to them would do an extra 2. This is VERY powerful. And don't forget, the BSB could possibly move up to 8" in hero phase and THEN plant banner to give effects (RAW).

However, when faced with alpha-strike lists such as Skaven Engine coven, Tomb King super snakes, Retributors + Vexillor it can all fall apart very quickly. There is a counter to everything it seems.

Regarding Leadbelchers - compare them to Maneaters. 3 leadbelchers do average 2 wounds in shooting. 3 Maneaters do 2.5 wounds in shooting, but MUCH better in combat. I still haven't used leadbelchers in a game.

Hope that gives you more to think about

[AmonRa]

Thank you everyone, some really great comments and suggestions. I tried to incorporate them all as thankfully the collection I have now can actually make all these changes. Will those 3 men squad of ogors actually accomplish anything? Also looking for suggestions on gear setups for the units. 

 

Tyrant (160)
Butcher (140)
3 Ogors (120)
3 Ogors (120)
3 Ogors (120)
6 Ironguts (440)
3 Leadbelchers (160)
3 Maneaters (220)
Thundertusk (320)
3 Yhetees (120)

Gutbusters Wartribe (60)

Total: 1980

[Emicus]

Butchers are amazing though I reckon you'd go for the Cauldron one every time - it's like getting a free (random) spell every turn.

However with the Artefacts and Command traits I'm hesitant to go for 'just'  a Butcher because the aforementioned can easily help take a decent Tyrant and crank the dials way up.

Battle Brew (+1 to hit and wound until next hero phase, or +2/+2 at cost of health) alone makes for a Combat Monster. With a Massive Club that's an average of 8.3 wounds at -2 rend.

With Command Traits such as Bellowing Tyrant (pick a unit within D6, give them +1 to hit) the Traits call for a front-line general, a place where the butcher doesn't really belong. Sure the Butcher is an ogre and ogres are tough, his melee profile is hardly worth mentioning except against chaff.

Indeed the Battle Trait for Destruction even calls for a front-line general with Rampaging Destroyers, units within 6" of the Warlord can move D6 in the Hero phase

[Sangfroid]

On the subject of unit size the only time I have ran ogors as units of 3 is under south coast pool comp where the scenario required more units than your opponent in table quarters otherwise in 6 every time (that's just me but I feel it works a lot better) try it with 3 and 6 and see how it pans out with your own play style etc... 

Plus I have only played one mission under GHB (mission 4 can't remember the name of it) and that was awesome btw 

[ChippyRick]

4 hours ago, Sangfroid said:

On the subject of unit size the only time I have ran ogors as units of 3 is under south coast pool comp where the scenario required more units than your opponent in table quarters otherwise in 6 every time (that's just me but I feel it works a lot better) try it with 3 and 6 and see how it pans out with your own play style etc... 

Plus I have only played one mission under GHB (mission 4 can't remember the name of it) and that was awesome btw 

I would also recommend a unit of 6 but that would require dropping something as you need 3 units for the formation.

[AmonRa]

Thanks again for all the replies. Quick question upon reading all the comments but why the negative view of leadbelchers? They seem like better bulls for a small increase?

[Emicus]

I think part of the trouble is that while they [leadbelchers] can be better bulls, ironguts are better still! Also there's no faffing about with 'how many shots do I get' and 'can I stay out of combat and not move and get good shots', - which can be pretty tricky with a 12" weapon.

 

Becoming battleline if you run pure Gutbusters help the Leadbelchers tremendously I feel, especially in higher point games requiring 3-4 battleline.

 

Im hesitant to run 3 man (ogre) units because it severely kicks their staying power. Sure their footprint is a lot better compared to other armies but that's still just 12 wounds, very comparable to other 'minimum size battleline' units.

 

this will be down to your local area of course, but since a lot of core troops receive bonuses from larger units I think 'bigger blocks of yore' will be a staple.