AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Agent of Chaos]

Thanks for the tips @Lakides!

Will certainly consider dropping the 2nd Beastlord and 3rd Shaman for some Ungor to screen.

Also thinking I might give the Beastlord the bray blast trumpet instead of the axe and have him ambush with the chariots and one or both Raider units.

[Cayseymax]

Question...

Have Breyherds lost all ability to summon now in the new edition? It would seem a lot of the flexibility that they used to have is gone... Is this really true? Did Gamed Workshop nerf Breyherds???

Reason for me asking is that GW wrote that all factions that could summon, would have their summoning system revamped... Now it seems that Breyherd just lost theirs???

Quote from Rules Preview, Summoning: "Rather than summoning units through magical spells, every army that could summon units before now has a unique resource that allows them to bring fresh reinforcements onto the tabletop that fits with their army’s background – if you’ve got the Maggotkin of Nurgle or Legions of Nagash, you’ll have played with rules like this already."

What happened to this???
 

Edited July 5, 2018 by Cayseymax

[kenshin620]

1 hour ago, Cayseymax said:

Have Breyherds lost all ability to summon now in the new edition?
 

The problem is that Brayherds have no "point" mechanic for summoning like what seraphon or the various chaos gods have and GW didn't really feel like giving a non battletome army an overhaul.

[Infernalslayer]

They probably meant that every battletome/tournament army that could summon in AoS 1.0 would get a summoning revamp in AoS 2.0.

Brayherds are an underdog army and they likely didn't want to spend more time on them than necessary so they just replaced the summoning spell of the Bray Shaman with a generic one.

It does feel that the herds lose more flexibility with each General's Handbook since 2017 and i don't think this will change in the foreseeable future, unless they ever decide to give them an update like with Daughters of Khaine. I will keep mine for casual games at home for the time being and spice up my games with some beastmen characters from the first General's Handbook compendium. ?

 

[Cayseymax]

On 7/5/2018 at 5:04 PM, kenshin620 said:

The problem is that Brayherds have no "point" mechanic for summoning like what seraphon or the various chaos gods have and GW didn't really feel like giving a non battletome army an overhaul.

Right... I just thought they would get one due to how GW worded that piece of info...

 

On 7/5/2018 at 6:01 PM, Infernalslayer said:

They probably meant that every battletome/tournament army that could summon in AoS 1.0 would get a summoning revamp in AoS 2.0.

Brayherds are an underdog army and they likely didn't want to spend more time on them than necessary so they just replaced the summoning spell of the Bray Shaman with a generic one. 

It does feel that the herds lose more flexibility with each General's Handbook since 2017 and i don't think this will change in the foreseeable future, unless they ever decide to give them an update like with Daughters of Khaine. I will keep mine for casual games at home for the time being and spice up my games with some beastmen characters from the first General's Handbook compendium. ?

 

Right... Especially since its such a small factions. If they just combined all the herds then that might be a viable option.

So what is a Brayherd player to do? Go all in on Forgeworld monster of chaos or what?

Any suggestions to get a playable list would be great!

[Blackspine]

46 minutes ago, Cayseymax said:

 

Right... Especially since its such a small factions. If they just combined all the herds then that might be a viable option.

So what is a Brayherd player to do? Go all in on Forgeworld monster of chaos or what?
 

I keep wondering about that now. The WarHERD and BrayHERD are so thematically intertwined, it's odd they can't overlap. Especially as the Alliance points are so crucial to a mostly one dimensional army; Bray - strength in numbers, Herd-Run fast/hit kinda hard?

Forgeworld monsters are good, but I don't see many that can provide the assistance that one of these herds need. 

My go to for the Brayherd: Jabbers. Run 3. (2 with new points. ;( ) 

I've been looking at possibly adding some Legion of Azghor; mostly for warmachines and the Demonsmith spell "ash storm"

 

Right now, my brayherd is mostly reserved for allies: 300 pts of Bestigors fit nicely. 

[kenshin620]

20 minutes ago, Blackspine said:

I keep wondering about that now. The WarHERD and BrayHERD are so thematically intertwined, it's odd they can't overlap. Especially as the Alliance points are so crucial to a mostly one dimensional army; Bray - strength in numbers, Herd-Run fast/hit kinda hard?

Lots of bizarre choices were made at the beginning of AoS, and for battletomeless armies, its not gonna change.

 

For crying out loud, Skaven turned into 6, SIX, factions. One of which only has Leaders! And even the battletome they have becomes overshadowed by the fact that they are also nurgle units and can be taken in nurgle armies...

[Blackspine]

4 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

 

For crying out loud, Skaven turned into 6, SIX, factions. One of which only has Leaders! And even the battletome they have becomes overshadowed by the fact that they are also nurgle units and can be taken in nurgle armies...

I'd love to see an easy fix for these;

Allegiance: Herds (whatever name works) = Warherd, Brayherd, Monsters of chaos 

Allegiance: Skaven.  = pretty much what you think it is. 

 

simple fix, not the end all. but would help

[decker_cky]

On 7/5/2018 at 9:01 AM, Infernalslayer said:

They probably meant that every battletome/tournament army that could summon in AoS 1.0 would get a summoning revamp in AoS 2.0.

Brayherds are an underdog army and they likely didn't want to spend more time on them than necessary so they just replaced the summoning spell of the Bray Shaman with a generic one.

It does feel that the herds lose more flexibility with each General's Handbook since 2017 and i don't think this will change in the foreseeable future, unless they ever decide to give them an update like with Daughters of Khaine. I will keep mine for casual games at home for the time being and spice up my games with some beastmen characters from the first General's Handbook compendium. ?

 

I think brayherd is in the best condition it's been under any GHB. The brayshaman's new spell is way more useful than a high cost summon, and the points discounts make the army much stronger overall. 

On 7/6/2018 at 3:12 PM, Blackspine said:

I'd love to see an easy fix for these;

Allegiance: Herds (whatever name works) = Warherd, Brayherd, Monsters of chaos 

Allegiance: Skaven.  = pretty much what you think it is. 

 

simple fix, not the end all. but would help

Agreed. The minor factions are also in dire need of battalions too (could be just giving them back the compendium). 

[Frozenbeast]

12 hours ago, decker_cky said:

I think brayherd is in the best condition it's been under any GHB. The brayshaman's new spell is way more useful than a high cost summon, and the points discounts make the army much stronger overall.

To be honest with the +1 from the stone and +1 from Scion of the Dark gods it was pretty easy to summon in my opinion (you just needed a 7 which is more than 50% to cast spell that normally has a 30% chance of being cast). Thing is that it was not convinient to fall so far behind on deployed points for something that anyway had a chance to not happen. 

I don t think this new spell will beof any utility for us as we already fly across the table and our strenght rely on number not on picking off weak units desplacing the strongest ones. Idk, Idon t see much utility to it for now. I might be wrong. 

[NemoVonUtopia]

7 hours ago, Frozenbeast said:

To be honest with the +1 from the stone and +1 from Scion of the Dark gods it was pretty easy to summon in my opinion (you just needed a 7 which is more than 50% to cast spell that normally has a 30% chance of being cast). Thing is that it was not convinient to fall so far behind on deployed points for something that anyway had a chance to not happen. 

I don t think this new spell will beof any utility for us as we already fly across the table and our strenght rely on number not on picking off weak units desplacing the strongest ones. Idk, Idon t see much utility to it for now. I might be wrong. 

I think that the main benefit of the spell will be pulling units out of cover and isolating heros to surround them. Slaughterpriests have a similar ability which I has been very useful, one game I pulled a necromancer away from his screening units. Also with more aura abilities being wholly within we can possibly stop them from triggering.

[Agent of Chaos]

42 minutes ago, NemoVonUtopia said:

 Also with more aura abilities being wholly within we can possibly stop them from triggering.

Great point! The "within" vs "wholly within" is a subtle change but if you're aware of it you can take advantage and remove some key buffs.

[Popisdead]

On 6/30/2018 at 8:40 AM, Lakides said:

 

30 x Ungor Raiders (240)

30 x Ungor Raiders (240)

30 x Ungor Raiders (240)

 

That is a lot of Raiders.

On 7/1/2018 at 7:18 AM, erasercrumbs said:

Just picked up Malagor so I can shaman in style.

I've painted up to of him.  Very nice model.

 

[Kramer]

On 7/8/2018 at 6:36 PM, Frozenbeast said:

I don t think this new spell will beof any utility for us as we already fly across the table and our strenght rely on number not on picking off weak units desplacing the strongest ones. Idk, Idon t see much utility to it for now. I might be wrong. 

I think it;s the biggest boon to the changes. That's just a brilliant utility spell. Especially combined with ambushers from other angles, there is so much you can do. Sure getting a unit to move away from an objective can be huge. But there is so much more subtler options, like breaking up synergy ranges, slightly improving chances of getting the charge. But also the first turn, you can first cast the spell (deff not in all scenerio's but there are a couple especially with the open war cards which we often use) at which point your front line is the closest, then drop your flanking force in your movement phase, just the threat of that is going to make it so hard to to build a proper screen. And just in general it's going to be such an headache for your opponents ? 

[Popisdead]

On 7/9/2018 at 9:46 AM, Kramer said:

That's just a brilliant utility spell. 

Kenny on Combat Phase mentioned Devolve in his Warherd which I hadn't thought of.  I had great success with my list granted the lack of +1 to hit on a 5+ will weaken it.  

[The_Yellow_Sign]

What sort of Brayherds/Warherds lists do you guys use in Skirmish/Hinterlands?

My local wargaming club plays Hinterlands but with 2.0 rules (no summoning still). I've had the most success so far with a starting 144 gold warband of: Dual-wielding Doombull general (+1 to Wound trait), Ungor Raiders x3, Bestigors x5.

Then I spend whatever I make from the first match on more Raiders, or to replace any dead Bestigors.

Unfortunately the Doombull (since  being a hero he gets half his usual wounds in Hinterlands) is pretty squishy, so I've been thinking of making a Tuskgor chariot my general, since it would have a better save, start with 6 wounds (since it's not a Hero) and would have more speed for capturing objectives.  

Any thoughts or suggestions? 

[thebloody9]

What are your thoughts on Ambush guys?

I've been  playing a Wildstalker list including the Brayblast Trumpet and Bestial Cunning, trying to really utilise the second wave of ambushers.

However I'm finding myself stuck between either too much off the board ( Bestigor block + Gor block + heroes) leaving myself exposed early or too little to form a useful threat from ambush. 

Any tips on a sweet spot and what do you like to keep in reserve?

[The_Yellow_Sign]

I'm planning to try using 2-3 Tuskgor chariots for ambushing in the second wave to take out some squishy units that the opponent has left exposed.

[thebloody9]

3 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

I'm planning to try using 2-3 Tuskgor chariots for ambushing in the second wave to take out some squishy units that the opponent has left exposed.

Yep, the more I use chariots the more I appreciate them for their points.

The fact that they're single units mitigates one of the herds biggest problems, their bravery. 

Any good ideas on modelling them? I've gone for Chaos chariot with orruc boar boy boars.

How much would you put into the first wave though, just screening or something with some heft?

[Frozenbeast]

5 hours ago, thebloody9 said:

Yep, the more I use chariots the more I appreciate them for their points.

The fact that they're single units mitigates one of the herds biggest problems, their bravery. 

Any good ideas on modelling them? I've gone for Chaos chariot with orruc boar boy boars.

How much would you put into the first wave though, just screening or something with some heft?

I think that a part from DE and Slaanesh chariots any chariot with the boars from the boar boys will do. Lionchariots with some good conversions on the lions will come out really nice. I have always used orruk chariots and any big beast as mount (they are mutated anyway so you can free your immagination). 

Edited July 11, 2018 by Frozenbeast

[The_Yellow_Sign]

I'm tempted to field a full unit of 30 Bestigors with the new points reduction, but I'm worried that they'll just be too unwieldy to use in such a big blob, since most of them won't be able to attack due to their larger bases. And on top of that they don't have any additional bonuses like Gors and Ungors do for larger unit sizes. Is it worth fielding a big 30 Bestigor blob, or would you suck up the points increase and deploy them in smaller units of 10 or 20?

[Frozenbeast]

Thing is that with small units you ll end up not being effective in my opinion. You will have 2/3 units scattered along the board that will die to anything. The cost reduction make so that if you are playing pure breyherd you can have them as battleline and can have 2x30 if you want!!! And if not you will be able to field other big threaths still having a very beefy unit that can deliver very well. My point is that smal units may be good at lower points. But if not go for the big one, they hit very hard!! I managed to hold 3 turns to 30 namarti thralls and my opponent was resus them every battleshock phase instead just on his meaning they were a lot more resilient then they should have (I would have smashed them in 2 turns). Plus with the Brayherd allegiance you will be able to maybe get the "damned" bonus from the braystone as i don t think our shaman will really benefit from the +1 now that we don t have the summoning spell so maybe we can deploy the stone a bit more forward. 

[Frozenbeast]

I noticed a couple of different things in the app and wanted to check if I am the only one. Some seem wrong others just seem changed but idk if the change is wanted or what:

- Ungor raiders have their movement after deployment changed to "... Can move as they are in the movement phase." instead of "... Can move up to 12"" which is highly significant I think and looks like a proper change rather that an error. Plus, have they always had the banner bearer? 

- GBS still have Savage dominion in the list of spells they can cast but then theyhave Devolve as a spell so thatis definitely an error;

- chariot seems to have lost their +2A on the charge but they gained re-roll charges and re-roll hit rolls on charge which is a huuuge deal!!! (is it just me or they changed this too. I don t recall them having it). 

Cheers

 

[someone2040]

14 hours ago, Frozenbeast said:

I noticed a couple of different things in the app and wanted to check if I am the only one. Some seem wrong others just seem changed but idk if the change is wanted or what:

- Ungor raiders have their movement after deployment changed to "... Can move as they are in the movement phase." instead of "... Can move up to 12"" which is highly significant I think and looks like a proper change rather that an error. Plus, have they always had the banner bearer? 

- GBS still have Savage dominion in the list of spells they can cast but then theyhave Devolve as a spell so thatis definitely an error;

- chariot seems to have lost their +2A on the charge but they gained re-roll charges and re-roll hit rolls on charge which is a huuuge deal!!! (is it just me or they changed this too. I don t recall them having it). 

Cheers

 

I think you might be mixing a few things up.

Ungor Raiders have always had can move as if they are in the movement phase. Additionally they have always had a banner bearer.

The GBS having Savage Dominion in it's list of spells is probably just an oversight from when they changed him to have Devolve. 

Chariots never had +2 attack on the charge, it's always been re-roll charges and re-roll hits which is why they made such good ambushing units.

Note I checked the compendium, grand alliance chaos book and the app for Ungor Raiders and Chariots, so definitely think you might be mixing them up with some other warscrolls.

Edited July 14, 2018 by someone2040

[Frozenbeast]

3 hours ago, someone2040 said:

I think you might be mixing a few things up.

Ungor Raiders have always had can move as if they are in the movement phase. Additionally they have always had a banner bearer.

The GBS having Savage Dominion in it's list of spells is probably just an oversight from when they changed him to have Devolve. 

Chariots never had +2 attack on the charge, it's always been re-roll charges and re-roll hits which is why they made such good ambushing units.

Note I checked the compendium, grand alliance chaos book and the app for Ungor Raiders and Chariots, so definitely think you might be mixing them up with some other warscrolls.

I might be mixing the chariot up then. 

I know the raiders could move but I thought I remembred they could move "up to 12"" and not just normally which is a big difference. 

As per the GBS I also think it is an error I was just checking if somebody else had it.