AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[YungWargamer]

Just wanted to say hi, been lurking and entertaining the prospect of getting into AOS to go to events like Throne of Skulls and have a good old time. 

Researched a lot, heard that Stormcast were the best way to get started and learn the game with and thus get to playing a little more competitively sooner. 

Then I walk into the store, see this awesome army and walk out with this.  Don’t know what it was, I just thought that the Beasts were awesome!

So then, where do I begin! Can I get some

wdvice on approaching this force? 

[Myrdin]

Buy the Starter collecting set box. 2x. Its a great deal with lot of value from the box. Play few games try out different units and depending on what you like and what works for you start adding on more models.

Bestigors are a solid pick that is universally useful in almost any list you can come up with. Same with Bray shamans and Ungors.

Avoid using Gors if possible, as they are they dont offer anything Ungors or Bestigors cant do better for a slight price difference.

Everything else in the book is fairly viable to a higher or lower degree. Some things outperform others, but unless you are looking to play the same list and go full tryhard mode when playing your opponent.

The selection of units is pretty good, and you get a lot of replay-ability with the same unit in multiple lists, and dozens of combinations. Some work well, some do less, some dont at all, but its fun regardless.

The army excels during the movement phase and can deliver a punch, but as you would guess from half naked barbarian goatmen, bullmen, etc, the lack in defense. Our units are fairly cheap when compared to other armies, and you can field a lot of bodies if you wish, but at the same time it is possible to play low model count elite lists. Just keep in mind that there are armies that fight better, tank better, do magic better.

Beastmen are kinda like your average human in RPG games. Decent in all aspects, dont excel in anything particularly.  Though In our case though as mentioned we are fairly fast army. There is also option to ambush units for some mind games and area control. As a whole the army is certainly competitive and is in a solid spot. Sure some things might be worked on a little bit better. but generaly this  is the best version of Beastmen I have seen since Warhammer fantasy old Beast of Chaos.

Lastly... welcome to the Herd brother ! Baaaaaaah !

Edited April 20, 2019 by Myrdin

[The_Yellow_Sign]

11 hours ago, YungWargamer said:

Just wanted to say hi, been lurking and entertaining the prospect of getting into AOS to go to events like Throne of Skulls and have a good old time. 

Researched a lot, heard that Stormcast were the best way to get started and learn the game with and thus get to playing a little more competitively sooner. 

Then I walk into the store, see this awesome army and walk out with this.  Don’t know what it was, I just thought that the Beasts were awesome!

So then, where do I begin! Can I get some

wdvice on approaching this force? 

Great choice! Beasts are a very fun army to play. Very fast, often hard-hitting, and they have a very useful and flavourful summoning mechanic.  

A good core for your army is 3 Start Collecting boxes, since Ungors/Raiders, Bestigors, and Shamans are always useful, and that gives you summoning options even if you don't include some of these in your list.

From there, you can build in a few different directions depending on what models you like. You can focus on more of the traditional Brayherd, Warherd, Thunderscorn (Dragon Ogres), or Tzaangors. You can mix and match these as well; you don't have to go all-in. 

 

[Jackroks981]

Hey guys, still not sure about this even after the FAQ. If I use the Taurus to hit a unit of Eels going into your enemies turn 3 so that they fight last, does the hightides rule over wright the Taurus since its now my enemies turn?

[SwampHeart]

16 minutes ago, Jackroks981 said:

Hey guys, still not sure about this even after the FAQ. If I use the Taurus to hit a unit of Eels going into your enemies turn 3 so that they fight last, does the hightides rule over wright the Taurus since its now my enemies turn?

Negative - the Taurus will always take precedence over the Tide. The FAQ states the most recent effect is used and since the Tides are an always on allegiance ability are never the most recent. About the only thing the bull doesn't stop dead is the Khorne artifact that gives them fight first on a roll. 

[Satyrical Sophist]

So, looks like BoC might be really good in Slaanesh. Ungor end up a bit silly with Euphoric Killers.  You easily get to generating 3 hits for every 6. With clubs that means each ungor gets 1.1 hit, each ungor with spear gets .89 hits. That's pretty good  

[Sauriv]

5 hours ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

So, looks like BoC might be really good in Slaanesh. Ungor end up a bit silly with Euphoric Killers.  You easily get to generating 3 hits for every 6. With clubs that means each ungor gets 1.1 hit, each ungor with spear gets .89 hits. That's pretty good  

Yeah really nice. I'm going to test this the next time i play with my army, but I'm thinking about bestigors with their 3 attacks per model after the charge 🤤🤤

[SwampHeart]

I'm going to be trying out a Ssyl'Eeske build with the new HoS book 100%. Probably go minimum core + a shaman for the move buff and a 30 man unit of Bestigors. That's only a 730 point investment which still leaves a lot of room to slot in new toys from the HoS book as well. 

[Sauriv]

And endless spells will probably have "only slaanesh wizard" which great bray shaman becomes 

[zamerion]

The problem as with other gods, is to lose artifacts, traits and powers with the beasts. 

They have already said that the powers are only for mortals and demons.

We'll see what synergies come out.

[Sauriv]

guess you could pick up some artifacts from malign sorcery instead, but yeah, probably not gonna have a command trait for the general (if the general is one of our heroes)

[SwampHeart]

1 hour ago, zamerion said:

The problem as with other gods, is to lose artifacts, traits and powers with the beasts. 

They have already said that the powers are only for mortals and demons.

Slaanesh is looking VERY different, sure you won't get artifacts or traits but you're getting access to a lot of their buffs because they say 'CHAOS SLAANESH'. The idea isn't ti run pure BoC as HoS but instead to cherry pick the best BoC options and take advantage of the Slaanesh buffs. 

[garmr]

1 hour ago, SwampHeart said:

Slaanesh is looking VERY different, sure you won't get artifacts or traits but you're getting access to a lot of their buffs because they say 'CHAOS SLAANESH'. The idea isn't ti run pure BoC as HoS but instead to cherry pick the best BoC options and take advantage of the Slaanesh buffs. 

I think all the artifacts and traits are linked to the hosts judging by the examples shown.  There's nothing in the ruling that says That BOC  battalion  can't be part of a host. So they should get all the benefits. The only thing it looks like we miss out on is the spell lore. (not including endless spells.)

[Satyrical Sophist]

3 hours ago, garmr said:

I think all the artifacts and traits are linked to the hosts judging by the examples shown.  There's nothing in the ruling that says That BOC  battalion  can't be part of a host. So they should get all the benefits. The only thing it looks like we miss out on is the spell lore. (not including endless spells.)

There is nothing stopping beasts in Khorne from being members of a slaughter host (the equivalent), and taking their command trait or relic. That said, mostly isn't super useful since they tend to refer to mortals (sometimes even a specific unit type) or daemons.

[Poryague]

17 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

There is nothing stopping beasts in Khorne from being members of a slaughter host (the equivalent), and taking their command trait or relic. That said, mostly isn't super useful since they tend to refer to mortals (sometimes even a specific unit type) or daemons.

In slaanesh the host will determine your 6 command and artifact traits to choose from. At least thats how it sounds.  If this is coorect it means BoC can get access to the lists. They can't do that with other gods. The command abilities they have shown say Chaos Slaanesh as the key word. If this is consistent in the book the BoC slaanesh will fit much better in slaanesh then other god factions because slaanesh faction command abilities work on BoC the others way mortal or daemon most of the time with few exceptions. The only thing would be magic of slaanesh they would not have access to it. Magic is daemon, mortal, greater daemon. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Poryague

[kenshin620]

Plus it helps that the slaanesh BoC battalion is the cheapest (though technically the smallest, but I think you would rarely fit in 12 units outside of using the 6 slots for chariots or something)

[Myrdin]

So how would a HoS BoC list look like ?

I tend to play pure BoC, even when running the God Battalions, since due to the Allies ruling we cant really get their stuff, so I figure why bother.

You would have to take Slaanesh as the main force, and add BoC via the Battalion (thus not treated as allies with allies limitation) correct ?

While I believe that as far as units go, Slaanesh has the least to offer us (we are quite fast ourselves, and have the numbers too), being able to utilize the army buffs and command abilities is where the true value of this lies, unlike with the other Gods, who dont have the adequate Keywording for us to make use of ?

 

Also..... no Slaangors.... much disappointment, though I guessed as much as there was no Khorngors with the last Khorne release. With Tzaangors being an actual thing, I think this is such wasted potential for new models and units that could work well for multiple armies (BoC and the God specific as well as vanilla Chaos undivided.)

Edited April 24, 2019 by Myrdin

[zamerion]

Locus of diversion and euphoric killers are really good rules for beast.

And goodseekers (+1 charge) with the slaanesh battalion (reroll charges) It is also good for securing charges.

We need to know what the spells and the scenery do, and if warlord traits and artefacts are restricted for mortals/daemons. 

But interesting things can come out.

I just see the problem that we can not improve the rend.. nor will we have access to cause mortals.

[Kasper]

On 4/22/2019 at 8:52 PM, SwampHeart said:

Negative - the Taurus will always take precedence over the Tide. The FAQ states the most recent effect is used and since the Tides are an always on allegiance ability are never the most recent. About the only thing the bull doesn't stop dead is the Khorne artifact that gives them fight first on a roll. 

I have noticed that new effects altering when a unit fight also includes a text in regards to effects cancelling each other out. Like if a unit always fights first, but this debuff makes it fight last, the two will cancel each other out, which is directly against the FAQ. I wonder if this will be FAQ'd later on so effects cancel each other out, or you will have different mechanics of altering when a unit fights.

[Televiper11]

Ungor Raiders are awesome. Especially if run in the Desolating Beastherd battalion. Ran 40 and shot my opponent off the table.

[SwampHeart]

8 hours ago, Myrdin said:

You would have to take Slaanesh as the main force, and add BoC via the Battalion (thus not treated as allies with allies limitation) correct ?

This is correct - you'd take The Depraved Drove and (assuming your whole army is in the battalion) you can now choose either Hedonites of Slaanesh or Beasts of Chaos for your allegiance abilities. Right now Euphoric Killers is a fantastic ability (one that also really helps out Bullgors) and Godseekers looks to be rock solid as well (just adding more speed). Right now my main thought process is Depraved Drove (Bray Shaman, 3x Min Ungors, 30x Bestigors) supported by Ssyl'Eeske for the fantastic command ability (re-roll 1s to hit within 18" and/or immune to Battle Shock within 18"). I'm expecting this to be roughly 1k points so plenty of space to add in either more HoS or BoC pieces as needed. Obviously this is just my first 'idea draft' and I'll need the book to make a better decision. 
 

7 hours ago, Kasper said:

I wonder if this will be FAQ'd later on so effects cancel each other out, or you will have different mechanics of altering when a unit fights.

I suspect they will. Without getting too salty they don't want 'literally no brains to play FEC' to have any form of counter play. 

@Televiper11 100% - in Desolating Ungor Raiders become a very valid and serious hammer for the army. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by SwampHeart

[Maddpainting]

Where is it that i can find that rule to take a battalion of marked god to get around allies? My local was talking abou tit but couldnt find it. B.c 2 of use are talking about doing a teams as Khorne, but we cant use the same units, so i was think of BoC Khorne and wanted to make sure i can do that.

[AverageBoss]

1 hour ago, Maddpainting said:

Where is it that i can find that rule to take a battalion of marked god to get around allies? My local was talking abou tit but couldnt find it. B.c 2 of use are talking about doing a teams as Khorne, but we cant use the same units, so i was think of BoC Khorne and wanted to make sure i can do that.

Its in the Beasts of Chaos FAQ/Errata pages.

[Maddpainting]

Funny didnt even look at the faq since i got it lol, i was thinking its in the core rules for some reason.

EDIT: Looking over it, i remember now, it jsut gives you the Nurgle, Khorne, etc.. Keyword, i dont see how it can let you play out of another book tho, unless you dont play out of another book, but just use their units to gain the buffs?

Edited April 25, 2019 by Maddpainting

[kenshin620]

32 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Funny didnt even look at the faq since i got it lol, i was thinking its in the core rules for some reason.

EDIT: Looking over it, i remember now, it jsut gives you the Nurgle, Khorne, etc.. Keyword, i dont see how it can let you play out of another book tho, unless you dont play out of another book, but just use their units to gain the buffs?

The battalions do 2 things on top of their individual buff.

1. The unit gains the [God] Keyword. This makes them a part of the [God] faction, similar to Slaves to Darkness.

2. The Battalion is part of BoC Faction and [God] Faction. This allows the Battalion to be taken by the god of choice. This goes around the Battalion faction lock issue.