AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Myrdin]

2 hours ago, garmr said:

Made a account to ask this question.
Skin wolves have shown up in the official online warscroll builder under the beast of chaos section. Do you think they did that because they took away the monsters of chaos section? If so does that officially a part of the beast of chaos army?

They would be fun to chuck in a 1000 point game since there rules and stat line are pretty much a hybrid of minos and bestigor.

I noticed this as well and was thinking whats the reason for it. If skin wolves get updated warscroll or at least a FAQ stating BoC keyword... yeah, were in business!

[garmr]

On 3/31/2019 at 2:47 AM, Myrdin said:

I noticed this as well and was thinking whats the reason for it. If skin wolves get updated warscroll or at least a FAQ stating BoC keyword... yeah, were in business!

A updated warscroll would be sweet.

[Thenord]

Hi guys

BoC will be my next aos army. So far I've ordered 2x SC box, 2 x bullgors, a doombull and an extra box of bestigors.

I was thinking of trying out one of the chaos god specific batallions at some point. Do any of you guys have any experience with substituting Boc alligence with one of the chaos gods? 

Cheers!

[The_Yellow_Sign]

19 minutes ago, Thenord said:

Hi guys

BoC will be my next aos army. So far I've ordered 2x SC box, 2 x bullgors, a doombull and an extra box of bestigors.

I was thinking of trying out one of the chaos god specific batallions at some point. Do any of you guys have any experience with substituting Boc alligence with one of the chaos gods? 

Cheers!

Khorne (especially with the new book) is a good option if you want to run Warherd. Warherd suffer from poor hit rolls, but Slaughterpriests together with the rerolls of 1 to hit from the battalion  fix that. And the extra attacks from Bloodsecrator (who can now move around) and Wrathmongers are really strong for Bullgors since they buffs both the axe and horn profiles.

Nurgle is good if you want to abuse Blades of Putrefaction on Bestigors and Centigors, but with all the -1 hit in the meta it's kind of situational.

The standard power list for Beasts of Chaos can easily be substituted into Tzeentch Allegiance and do very well, using Fold Reality to bring back Enlightened.

[Thenord]

Cool, thank you for the reply!

Was just wondering if it was a viable option, couldn't find any lists using that approach. So thought I might have missed something

[Sauriv]

On 4/1/2019 at 7:24 AM, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Khorne (especially with the new book) is a good option if you want to run Warherd. Warherd suffer from poor hit rolls, but Slaughterpriests together with the rerolls of 1 to hit from the battalion  fix that. And the extra attacks from Bloodsecrator (who can now move around) and Wrathmongers are really strong for Bullgors since they buffs both the axe and horn profiles. 

.... [was super wrong, removed this first part to avoid any confusion]... 

 

 

Don't see how Slaughterpriests can affect them, other than moving the enemy closer. 

I might be missing something though. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Sauriv

[garmr]

Was thinking of this list
HQ
Beast lord- general- unraveling aura,mutating gnarl blade
Greatbray-VileTide ,Knowing eye
Greatbray-Tendrils of Atrophy
Dragon Ogre Shaggoth-hailstorm 

Troop choice
20 Bestigor-Battle line
20 Bestigor-Battle line
20 Bestigor-Battle line
30 ungor Raiders
30 ungor Raiders
10 ungor-Battle line
10 ungor-Battle line

Formation- Phantasmagoria of fate

Points -1990/2000

What do you guys think?
 

[Maddpainting]

Why not do 2x30 and save points? Thats 120pts you wll save (600 vs 720) thats another hero or even another unit. 

Edited April 2, 2019 by Maddpainting

[Grimrock]

1 hour ago, Sauriv said:

Wrathmongers only affect Khorne mortals so it's a no go for them and warherd. 

Don't see how Slaughterpriests can affect them either, other than moving the enemy closer. 

I might be missing something though. 

Wrathmongers affect all khorne units wholly within 8" so the warherd is fine, you might be thinking of the bloodstoker which only works on mortals now.

If you take the khorne allegiance then Slaughterpriests can take a prayer called Killing Frenzy that gives a +1 to hit to a khorne unit wholly within 16" when the prayer is cast. 

[garmr]

5 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

Why not do 2x30 and save points? Thats 120pts you wll save (600 vs 720) thats another hero or even another unit. 

I heard that 10 or 20 was the optimal number to get them into combat. But I'm wondering is there a big difference between a 1 drop army and a 2 drop?

[Maddpainting]

For me, its either 10 or 30, 32mm bases are large, but as Gavespawn with 30, you can multi-charge gain +attacks and completely destroy. Especially if you have a Chaos Sorcerer on Mount for Re-roll saves, hit, wounds of 1.

[The_Yellow_Sign]

3 hours ago, garmr said:

I heard that 10 or 20 was the optimal number to get them into combat. But I'm wondering is there a big difference between a 1 drop army and a 2 drop?

There are good arguments for any unit size with Bestigors. They're useful in 10, 20, or 30, so really up to you how you want to use them. 

The number of drops you need to ensure turn priority depends on your local meta. For me, I can almost certainly get priority with 4 drops or less. There are few people where I live that run lists with very low drops.

Edited April 3, 2019 by The_Yellow_Sign

[Rivener]

What’s the consensus on BoC endless spells? They all seem VERY good...

[Magnus The Blue]

Horn and bull are solid in the right list. The flock are a bit situational for me. Not any good against death or demons.

[SwampHeart]

2 hours ago, Rivener said:

What’s the consensus on BoC endless spells? They all seem VERY good...

Wildfire Taurus is a consistently good performer. The horn is solid as well though a bit more situational in when and how you apply it. I don't have a ton of experience with the flock, at its point cost there are usually just better generic endless spells I'd rather cast. 

[Magnus The Blue]

Soooo, being thinking of trying out a Desolating Beastherd for a change and came up with the following 2k Dusk Walkers list:

6 Dragon Orgors (4 Crushers, 2 Glaives)

6 Dragon Orgors (4 Crushers, 2 Glaives)

5 Centigors

5 Centigors

Desolating Beastherd (containing all of the following

Beastlord with Volcanic Axe

Shaman General

Shaman with trash duskwalker artifact.

30 Bestigors

30 Ungor Raiders

10 Ungor

1 Chariot

1 Cygor

Idea is simple, Dragon Ogors, Centigor, one shaman and the regular Ungor deploy while everything else ambushes.

Mostly I will want the Beastigors to come on with a shaman and the beastlord, while the Cygor hangs with the raiders to focus on taking out support.

Anyone tried anything like this out?  Any thoughts on optimising it (except removing the Cygor, unreliable but can't wait to try and headshot some wizards (two hits on 6s, yum yum yum).

[Tasman]

10 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Soooo, being thinking of trying out a Desolating Beastherd for a change and came up with the following 2k Dusk Walkers list:

6 Dragon Orgors (4 Crushers, 2 Glaives)

6 Dragon Orgors (4 Crushers, 2 Glaives)

5 Centigors

5 Centigors

Desolating Beastherd (containing all of the following

Beastlord with Volcanic Axe

Shaman General

Shaman with trash duskwalker artifact.

30 Bestigors

30 Ungor Raiders

10 Ungor

1 Chariot

1 Cygor

Idea is simple, Dragon Ogors, Centigor, one shaman and the regular Ungor deploy while everything else ambushes.

Mostly I will want the Beastigors to come on with a shaman and the beastlord, while the Cygor hangs with the raiders to focus on taking out support.

Anyone tried anything like this out?  Any thoughts on optimising it (except removing the Cygor, unreliable but can't wait to try and headshot some wizards (two hits on 6s, yum yum yum).

Looks like it could be fun, but I'm thinking that it could be problematic ambushing all of those units.  A canny player will do his best to deny tabletop to you although the dark walker ability may mitigate this somewhat. I just feel that you're spreading yourself a little thin for any first turn shenanigans your opponent might throw at you. You have 5 drops, so first turn is not guaranteed for you.  You can expect some kind of Alpha strike. Let us know how this worked out.

Edited April 4, 2019 by Tasman

[Magnus The Blue]

23 minutes ago, Tasman said:

Looks like it could be fun, but I'm thinking that it could be problematic ambushing all of those units.  A canny player will do his best to deny tabletop to you although the dark walker ability may mitigate this somewhat. I just feel that you're spreading yourself a little thin for any first turn shenanigans your opponent might throw at you. You have 5 drops, so first turn is not guaranteed for you.  You can expect some kind of Alpha strike. Let us know how this worked out.

Yes, I think I'll have to really pay attention during deployment.  I'd drop my Dragon Orgors and Centigors first, so by the time I have to make a choice on ambushing I will know if I have first turn and the extent to which my opponent is trying to Zone out my Ambush.  

The home is that that if my opponent is spread out then I can ambush the ranged units turn one and combine them with the Dragon Ogors to carve out space for the Bestigors.  Also, as you say Savage encirclement reduces the risk of ambush being completely blocked (units can always ambush near my herd stone shammy and go straight for encirclement.

In theory anyway, will hopefully try it out next week.

[Tasman]

5 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Yes, I think I'll have to really pay attention during deployment.  I'd drop my Dragon Orgors and Centigors first, so by the time I have to make a choice on ambushing I will know if I have first turn and the extent to which my opponent is trying to Zone out my Ambush.  

The home is that that if my opponent is spread out then I can ambush the ranged units turn one and combine them with the Dragon Ogors to carve out space for the Bestigors.  Also, as you say Savage encirclement reduces the risk of ambush being completely blocked (units can always ambush near my herd stone shammy and go straight for encirclement.

In theory anyway, will hopefully try it out next week.

Yeah, again, it sounds fun..... and workable. Desolating brayherd is my go-to formation. Love all those exploding hits, especially on all of the raiders shots! Good luck.

[The_Yellow_Sign]

On 4/4/2019 at 4:28 AM, Rivener said:

What’s the consensus on BoC endless spells? They all seem VERY good...

Bull is good, and is even  better now that Gristlegore and Tyrants of Blood cheese are around. The horn is just OK; a little expensive for what it does. I'd rather take Geminids. The flock is just plain bad and I would rather cast mystic shield or arcane bolt than waste a spell casting it.

Edited April 4, 2019 by The_Yellow_Sign

[Kamose]

So I've taken a shine to Razorgors for reasons that can only be described as the taint of Chaos.  I know the model is old and kinda ugly but I'm intrigued by the conversion possibilities.  My thoughts include using various spawn bits, changing what the mutant piggie is trampling on his base and possibly some (un)fortunate Freeguild soldier escaping from the gaping rents in the boar's flanks a la Jim Carrey (see below).

Does anyone have any experience with the guys?  My initial thought is that they are cheap (both points and summoning), pretty fast, reroll charges, and deal mortal wounds on the charge.  That seems to make them good summoning fodder to attack the opponent's backfield.  That also puts them in direct competition with chariots. 

The chariots are tougher, and seem to hit a bit harder than a single pig.  The pig is cheaper, though this won't matter if they're both summoned, and with a bit of mortal wound potential.

Is it perhaps worth it to pay for a couple pigs and deploy or ambush them and summon the chariots?  Are the piggies just overshadowed by the chariots?  Is this a "Why not both?" situation?  I'm not looking for super-competitive advice just people's experiences.  Thanks! 

[kenshin620]

31 minutes ago, Kamose said:

Is it perhaps worth it to pay for a couple pigs and deploy or ambush them

I dont think you can ambush razorgors.

But they are a cheap filler to let other things ambush!

 

If you're allowed non-gw stuff I'm curious if the Immolated Rhino from Wyrd would make a good razorgor stand in

[Kamose]

10 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

I don't think you can ambush razorgors.

Good point!  I forgot they aren't Brayherd.  Summoning helps get around that but I suppose that's another knock against them!

Edited April 8, 2019 by Kamose

[Myrdin]

Fuh, thank god the site is back up.  Was getting the "community does not exist" error for the last couple of days.

 

As for Razorgors, they are great for unsuspected objective rushers. In the discussion x pages back I already talked about them in more detail.

Pretty much > dont expect much from their combat potential. You might be tempted to take a big herd of 6, and go for the mortal wounds, but once you crunch down on the numbers You`ll quickly find out that the damage output is not that high and in those numbers they start to feel equal to things like Dragon Ogors, who have both better save and more steady damage going for them.

Razorgors are best kept in small numbers, cheap and hidden in plain sight > meaning keep them around big units, never put them into threatening positions and never draw attention to them. Be one with the table, embrace the path of Pig Ninjutsu. Creep them forward slowly but steadily and once the time is right, let them charge forward to the objective and take it from your opponent  when they least suspect it.

Razorgors are the masters of subversion. Especially in single model units. Unless pointed to, the amount of flak and attention they take is very small, thus making them for good surprise unit.

They dont do badly on flanks as well. 2 of them can force your opponent directing some of their own fast moving forces to pay more attention to them, which in return opens up some breathing room for rest of your units.

As for a good substitute model for Razorgors > Mierce Miniatures have fantastic overgrown boars, and often offer discounts on various items in stock, if you are subscribed to their newsletter and patient enough. I got 4 of theirs myself, and 4 more as the mounted ones (wanted to turn them into Dragon Ogors, but lately have been rethinking that idea due to the new Shaggoth proxy models that have been coming out from various companies and the fact that the pig riders dont have  an adequate Shaggoth substitute thus the miniatures might cause unnecessary confusion.)

[Magnus The Blue]

I've been thinking about what are best hard core competitive build is at 2k and come up with the following

Great bray Shaman *3  300

3 * 6 Enlightened  840

8 * 5 Centigor   640

3 * 10 Ungor 180

Germids  40

So 3 killer hammer units, 3 casts/dispells a game and lots of wounds (197).  Obviously dependant on the Enlightened to do the heavy lifting in terms of killing stuff but the Centigors can keep up and protect then. 17 drops, so won't get choice of turn one very often (ever) but with lots of screens and massive charge range it should be happy going first or second.  

I'd probably got for Grave Spawn for the free spawns and command ability.

Only major weakness is low hero count, so might have to play quite defensively with them. Could possibly drop one/two units of centigors for a Beastlord and/or another shammy, but love the object claiming potential of 40 lightening fast goats.

Any thoughts or ideas for your own 'killer' build?