Jump to content

AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion


Gaz Taylor

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Kaz said:

Yep! Playing Khorne does mean a part horde army (I’ve moved 100+ Orks before, so I’m not a stranger to hordes :/), so now that I think about it, playing Tzaangors doesn’t seem so bad! I’ll admit, I already play one horde army, so the Enlightened suddenly seem more appealing than 100+ ungors/Gors XD

So what about Greatfrays? Is it considered a viable alternative to not go any Greatfray, and instead choose your own command traits? 

Im not trying to discourage you from going the Ungors/Bestigors/Raiders route that most people seem to find the “true” way of Beasts of Chaos. I just think its important to realize what you are getting yourself into, since that way is a big horde army. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well technically you can go MSU with Bestigors and Ungors, however for Raiders you want the maximum number a unit can get to have those reroll available for as long as possible.

Honestly unless you want to go full big blob units, there are ways to build the army, but if we are talking about volume of models to paint, then yes, the Brayherd route will require quite a lot of them even if you run MSU.

A mix of Dragon Ogors, Tzaan Enligh/Skyfires as your main core part will give you plenty of wounds, in as small frame as possible and is also fairly small number of models to paint, though they are more detailed so some time might be consumed on you painting them up more then the regular standard you have set for yourself.

Once you have that core block, you can always sprinkle in more numerical stuff like the above mentioned Brayherd units.

Chariots are also a good way to go about your business if a small body count army is your objective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone had any joy with Cygors?  I'm thinking of putting together a Darkwalkers list with desolating beast-herd battalion and wonder if a Cygor might actually work.  Thinking of mainly using it as a mobile wizard sniper.  4+ to hit is a bit ****** but with the reroll against wizards and two hits on 6s, I recon it might well be a nasty surprise for my opponent if a little unreliable.  Surely 80%+  of list have some sort of wizard, especially given that Overlords and Fyre Slayers aren't very popular at the moment (Khorne will soon bit a different story).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Anyone had any joy with Cygors?  I'm thinking of putting together a Darkwalkers list with desolating beast-herd battalion and wonder if a Cygor might actually work.  Thinking of mainly using it as a mobile wizard sniper.  4+ to hit is a bit ****** but with the reroll against wizards and two hits on 6s, I recon it might well be a nasty surprise for my opponent if a little unreliable.  Surely 80%+  of list have some sort of wizard, especially given that Overlords and Fyre Slayers aren't very popular at the moment (Khorne will soon bit a different story).

I took one against Karadron. Bubbled him into Ungor raiders and had the whole thing as a "Beastmen mobile missile battery" xd :D

He was surprisingly good. Yes he is a bit random with 4+ to hit an D6 dmg,  but he is relatively cheep and has plenty of wounds. His range dropping as his W decrease its something I would like to be gone in the next version of our book though.

Overall I was lucky, he hit 3 of his 4 shots (1 per round), shot down the big Karadron zeppelin then charged to finish it off. His full potential wasnt realised due to my opponent not having any casters, but even so it was fun and refreshing to us it instead of a Gorghon. Combined with a Ungor blob my Karadron friend was flabbergasted at my Beastmen over shooting his Karadron XD.

The key with Cygor is > dont expect much, bring him for fun, and pad out the 180pts handycap with some other reliable units. (no Tzaangors have been used in that game though. My list overall was rather derpy, with Razorgors and Jabberslythe in the mix ^^)

Oh, and dont forget to shout "Roaaar" and gesticulate throwing a massive boulder whenever you roll the To Hit dice ! The possitive mojo and Cygorly attitude is part of the fun :D

Edited by Myrdin
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking at starting a BoC army to pair with my Legion Of Azgorh for a (casual) doubles tournament next year. Want to keep the Bull aesthetic so that they complement my LoA Bull Centaurs. 

Anyone have any success with Doombull as general and 3 units of Bullgors as battleline? I'd probably also take a full compliment of Ungor Raiders and maybe some Dragon Ogors.

Edited by Televiper11
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Televiper11 said:

Looking at starting a BoC army to pair with my Legion Of Azgorh for a (casual) doubles tournament next year. Want to keep the Bull aesthetic so that they complement my LoA Bull Centaurs. 

Anyone have any success with Doombull as general and 3 units of Bullgors as battleline? I'd probably also take a full compliment of Ungor Raiders and maybe some Dragon Ogors.

on guerilla miniature games´  youtube channel you can see quite a lot of batreps featuring a warherd army.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Anyone had any joy with Cygors?  I'm thinking of putting together a Darkwalkers list with desolating beast-herd battalion and wonder if a Cygor might actually work.  Thinking of mainly using it as a mobile wizard sniper.  4+ to hit is a bit ****** but with the reroll against wizards and two hits on 6s, I recon it might well be a nasty surprise for my opponent if a little unreliable.  Surely 80%+  of list have some sort of wizard, especially given that Overlords and Fyre Slayers aren't very popular at the moment (Khorne will soon bit a different story).

You can use it with Tzeentch allegiance in FoF battalion rerolling your first shot with DD (if first shot misses, you can then spend DD) and also make 5-6 dmg with DD to reliably kill small wizards. But it's pretty sketchy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spoiler
2 hours ago, Pandamina said:

You can use it with Tzeentch allegiance in FoF battalion rerolling your first shot with DD (if first shot misses, you can then spend DD) and also make 5-6 dmg with DD to reliably kill small wizards. But it's pretty sketchy.

 

Quote

Q: Can I use a Destiny Dice for a re-roll?

A: No. A re-roll is not considered to be a new dice roll, it is the original dice roll taken again. The Destiny Dice would therefore need to be used before the first roll was made.

- BATTLETOME: DISCIPLES OF TZEENTCH Designers’ Commentary, July 2018

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This might be a silly question but what am i missing here:

 

Q: Does the note in the Pitched Battle profile for Tzaangors in the Beasts of Chaos battletome mean that they can only ever be Battleline if they are included in a Beasts of Chaos army with a Tzaangor Shaman as their general? A: No. Tzaangors are only not Battleline units when they are taken as part of a Beasts of Chaos army that does not have a Tzaangor Shaman as its general.

Other than the 'No' in the answer what is the difference between what the questions asks and what the answer is?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Rob P said:

This might be a silly question but what am i missing here:

 

Q: Does the note in the Pitched Battle profile for Tzaangors in the Beasts of Chaos battletome mean that they can only ever be Battleline if they are included in a Beasts of Chaos army with a Tzaangor Shaman as their general? A: No. Tzaangors are only not Battleline units when they are taken as part of a Beasts of Chaos army that does not have a Tzaangor Shaman as its general.

Other than the 'No' in the answer what is the difference between what the questions asks and what the answer is?

 

Ah, typical FAQ phrasing making things more confusing than they should be.

You aren't missing anything, Tzaangors are only battleline in BoC if your general is a Tzaangor Shaman. They need to change that "No" to a "Yes".

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

7 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

Ah, typical FAQ phrasing making things more confusing than they should be.

You aren't missing anything, Tzaangors are only battleline in BoC if your general is a Tzaangor Shaman. They need to change that "No" to a "Yes".

The FAQ makes an important clarification. Tzaangors are not Battleline in a BoC army without a Tzaangor Shaman, but ARE battleline in an other army regardless of who the general is (only really matter in DoT or Grand Alliance forces).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Magnus The Blue said:

 

The FAQ makes an important clarification. Tzaangors are not Battleline in a BoC army without a Tzaangor Shaman, but ARE battleline in an other army regardless of who the general is (only really matter in DoT or Grand Alliance forces).

I suppose so, but the question being asked was specifically about Beasts of Chaos and not other armies so it really just made it confusing to some people.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi guys I'm looking for some clarification on how realm spells (and artefacts) work in matched play games. 

Can I give my wizards a spell from any realm in any matched play event? Or can you only access realm spells if the matched play came is specifically set in that realm? 

I see people writing lists with artefacts and spells from a specific realm but I am not sure if this is just a free choice thing or whether it is dictated by the match play game? 

Thanks in advance! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, TactfulSaturn said:

Can I give my wizards a spell from any realm in any matched play event? Or can you only access realm spells if the matched play came is specifically set in that realm? 

You can cast any spell from a realm list but only if your game is being played in that realm. So if you're at an event that isn't using realms for example you wouldn't have access to those spells. The only way to cast them is to be playing your game in that specific realm. 

 

2 hours ago, TactfulSaturn said:

I see people writing lists with artefacts and spells from a specific realm but I am not sure if this is just a free choice thing or whether it is dictated by the match play game? 

Never seen anyone write a list with spells from a specific realm but artefacts are allowable no matter what realm you play in (assuming the event you're at allows them at all). You may pick a realm your army is from and choose artefacts from that realm for your characters (following all other normal rules for selecting artefacts). It is worth noting that you can only ever select artefacts from one realm - so if you had access to 2 artefacts (for having a battalion) you couldn't chose options from both the realm of light and the realm of life. 
 

Edited by SwampHeart
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey all,

Just went 4-1 at the Warhammer World Throne of Skulls event with my Phantasmagora of Tzeentch gravespawn list. Only loss was by one victory point against skaven with all the tricks (plague monks, warp lightening cannons, Warpseer, warp lightening storm...), which would have been a victory if we'd had time to play 4th turn.

My list:

Dragon Orgor Shaggoth (general, Hailstorm, Horn of the Tempest)

Beastlord: Mutating Gnarl-Blade

Great Bray Shaman (Vicous Stranglethorns)

2 * 6 Dragon Orgors (each with 4 Crushers and 2 Glaives)

2* 5 Centigors

10 Centigors

6 Enlightened on Disks

10 Ungors

10 Ungor Raiders

10 Bestigors

All in part of the Battalion for a one drop army.

General things I learnt:

1) Beasts of Chaos can absolutely compete with some of the best lists out their. I play against several strong lists I was worried about (Skaven, Grimgast Reapers, Ariel) and never felt I my list wasn't strong enough. Grislegor and Eel list might change my mind :P

2) Centigors are AMAZING, 80 points for a super fast, 10 wound unit with 4+ saves in combat and decent attacks is just too good to be true. No objective is safe if you have a unit of these sitting near a Shaman and waiting to unleash a 30"+ charge across the battlefield (14" + 3" + D6" + 1" + 2D6").

3) Horn of the Tempest is surprisingly good (if you running lots of Dragon Ogors), with this fast core to my force I could easily outflank almost any opponent. Combine brilliantly with Enlightened on disks: Ogors hold the unit in place, Tzaangor hit the flank and unleast the pain.

4) Phantasmagora of Tzeentch is surprisingly good, sometimes. Obviously one dropping is great (and won me several games) but having a massive quantity of unbinds is actually really useful against some opponents, I'm looking at you skaven.

The only unit that didn't really pull it's weigh was the Bestigors, who generally Ambushed (alone), failed the charge then got taken out by incidental wounds and missile fire.  They definitively need more support to be worth while as an ambush force, might be worth the beast lord going with them in future, but never tried this out.

Edited by Magnus The Blue
  • Like 4
  • LOVE IT! 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

You can cast any spell from a realm list but only if your game is being played in that realm. So if you're at an event that isn't using realms for example you wouldn't have access to those spells. The only way to cast them is to be playing your game in that specific realm. 

 

Never seen anyone write a list with spells from a specific realm but artefacts are allowable no matter what realm you play in (assuming the event you're at allows them at all). You may pick a realm your army is from and choose artefacts from that realm for your characters (following all other normal rules for selecting artefacts). It is worth noting that you can only ever select artefacts from one realm - so if you had access to 2 artefacts (for having a battalion) you couldn't chose options from both the realm of light and the realm of life. 
 

Thanks for the reply! That makes sense now! 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

A food for though: How do you guys deal with deal with the Blades of Khorne armies in 1500 and 2K lists ?

I play almost exclusively at 2k so my experiences are relevant to that point level. Khorne hasn't really been an issue for me for the following reasons:

  • I run the Wildfire Taurus to help me deal with the Fight First BT
  • I don't over invest in magic (usually 1 Shaman, 1 Tzaangor Shaman) so their magic defense is largely wasted
  • I run a lower drop(3) list than most Khorne players so I'm not worried about an alpha, to the point where I usually give BoK the first turn
  • I have 60 Ungor Raiders in a Desolating Brayherd which deal significant damage to BTs (or any other unit really)
  • Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc still mince basically any unit in a BoK army even without access to their re-rolls. 

I've played against the new book three times now and just never felt threatened. The worst game was 3 Places against a 3 BT list but even then I felt like I had the upper hand the whole game. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

I play almost exclusively at 2k so my experiences are relevant to that point level. Khorne hasn't really been an issue for me for the following reasons:

  • I run the Wildfire Taurus to help me deal with the Fight First BT
  • I don't over invest in magic (usually 1 Shaman, 1 Tzaangor Shaman) so their magic defense is largely wasted
  • I run a lower drop(3) list than most Khorne players so I'm not worried about an alpha, to the point where I usually give BoK the first turn
  • I have 60 Ungor Raiders in a Desolating Brayherd which deal significant damage to BTs (or any other unit really)
  • Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc still mince basically any unit in a BoK army even without access to their re-rolls. 

I've played against the new book three times now and just never felt threatened. The worst game was 3 Places against a 3 BT list but even then I felt like I had the upper hand the whole game. 

What would you say are their strengths and weakness ?
I haven't yet played against them, though I will sooner then later as there is bunch of people getting into BoK.

I went through their book and from what I can see so far, they have more and better synergies than us, are in general more punchy as well. Not sure about damage absorption, I`d say its a bit better than us as it relies less on masses and is more elite oriented. Speed seems to be a bit of an issue and with some exception on their side, BoC seem much faster (especially our Brayherd stuff). 

While we can deal some damage to them, they do it better (exception are enlightened of course).  Plus we do have some ranged presence available while theirs is even less, if any at all...

So my guess is, throw cheap stuff at them to slow them down and chip at their model count, while our fast one gets objectives. We do have some good big monsters so utilize those for murdering their characters, and specialists. Or something like that. I am purely theory crafting here at the moment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Myrdin said:

What would you say are their strengths and weakness ?

Strengths are (no particular order here) - access to some solid army synergy (but this is usually demon OR mortal specific, not a lot of overlap), very good prayers (nice because they can't be dispelled), and obviously good over all punch. 

Weaknesses - overall they're a slow army, maybe not on the surface but when you look at their ability to cover a 24" gap its not great. They also really rely on those support heroes who don't have a lot of survivability tricks (super vulnerable to stuff like ungor shooting, MW spells, etc). They're also fairly squishy - mostly 5+ saves across the board, again they rely on bronzed flesh to get most of their survivability boosts. 

I don't know that'd I agree they have better synergy than us. Our book has limited synergy but honestly the only synergy we need is a Bray Shaman handing out +3 movement early game. Its why I like BoC and do well with them, they don't fit the current mold of a competitive army. I don't care about character sniping, I'm not reliant on lots of 'wholly within' bubbles that limit my movement, I just use cost efficient units to control the board and win objectives. Its why BoC are both a challenging and rewarding army - they're very different from the current mold of competitive AoS armies. 

Overall I'm not convinced they're anymore durable as a whole nor do they actually deal that much more damage than BoC. A unit of Bestigors with re-roll failed to wounds is still an amazing hammer. Their damage is often flashier with big splashy mortal wounds or huge volume bloodsecrator buffed attacks but I've watched their army play and I feel like I kill just as fast as they do against similar targets. 

Honestly the way I play BoK is not to different from most of my other games. I shoot stuff with Raiders (usually slaughterpriests or bloodsecrators early) and I charge stuff with enlightened and bestigors. Its largely about getting your match ups set up favorably which with BoC speed shouldn't be an issue. Bestigors are great for cutting through Blood Warriors, Blood Letters, Reavers, etc and Enlightened are great for chopping down skullcannons, thristers, and juggers. You just have to play the objectives and use your speed to your advantage. 

I am going to play against a big jugger list this weekend so I'll report back from that to let you know how it went. I've got a super enthusiastic BoK player in my group and we've been working on lists and ideas since the book came out so I've been playing alot of BoK lately. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi,
tzeentch player here . i would like some advice start a competitive boc list.
my meta have alot of enzos/balista, sylvaneth, beast of clans, skaven and 1 dok.

i already have 30x tzaangors, 9x enlightned, 3x skyfire, 3x skyfire/enlightned not assemble, 3x shaman and brunch of others tzeentch unit.

i thinking about ver 3x start collection but have not Idea about the other unit. what about i sim first hesites the start collecting?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Terninho83 said:

Hi,
tzeentch player here . i would like some advice start a competitive boc list.
my meta have alot of enzos/balista, sylvaneth, beast of clans, skaven and 1 dok.

i already have 30x tzaangors, 9x enlightned, 3x skyfire, 3x skyfire/enlightned not assemble, 3x shaman and brunch of others tzeentch unit.

i thinking about ver 3x start collection but have not Idea about the other unit. what about i sim first hesites the start collecting?

Look up Daniel Bradshaw's UK Masters/Sheffield Slaughter list. He won both tournaments with it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Made a account to ask this question.
Skin wolves have shown up in the official online warscroll builder under the beast of chaos section. Do you think they did that because they took away the monsters of chaos section? If so does that officially a part of the beast of chaos army?

They would be fun to chuck in a 1000 point game since there rules and stat line are pretty much a hybrid of minos and bestigor.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...