AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Sauriv]

2 hours ago, Amradiel said:

How do you equip your Dragon Ogors?  😊 I really wan't to try them. And I also want to know if I should field a blob of 6 or 2x3?

I don't own dragon ogres so don't trust me on this, but this are my thoughts .

all weapons have the same to hit/wound stats so this can be ignored.

Paired W. vs Crushers:

Same max dmg but differs in nr of attacks, due to reroll rule Paired weapons would perform better if you have a shaggoth. On the other hand crushers should perform better if you can add more attacks like with gavespawn ability.

Glaives

Has less max dmg but are more consistent dmg with rend. the range is also better.

Conclusion

Due to dragon ogres overall high defence i would reason that a drop in dmg (-30%) is worth for more consistency because they aren't glass-cannons and will survive for a few turns. the bigger the unit the more range becomes important too.

[Magnus The Blue]

32 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

I run a unit of 6 - 3 with Crushers and 3 with Glaives. 

Similar 6, 4 crushers, 2 Glaives.  With Gravespawn, so optimised to get the most from the command ability.  Would just to 3s with paired ancient weapons otherwise 

[Duke of Gisoreux]

I regret to inform you, that as of 25/01/2019 Tzaangors are no longer allowed in Beasts of Chaos armies. Well, don't take this too serious as I don't think GW intended that. But here's how I came to it:

You may noticed that GW has a download section on their community page. Amongst others you can download a warscroll pdf for all models contained in Warhammer Quest Silver Tower. There is a publish date near the download link which says "Updated 25/01/2019". This means the warscrolls  contained in that PDF have a newer publish date than any warscroll before. But GW didn't actually insert new warscrolls in that PDF, but used the same old PDF that was published when Silver Tower was released.  So it contains the old Tzaangor warscroll that lacks the BRAYHERD und BEASTS OF CHAOS keywords. According to the FAQ below you are no longer allowed to use Tzaangors in a Beasts of Chaos army because they don't have the required keywords any more as they got removed by the most current warscroll. 

Quote

Q: If I have two different warscrolls for the same unit, can I choose which to use, or must I use the most recently published version? Do I have to use any errata that applies to the warscroll?

A: You must use the most recently published warscroll and errata that you or your opponent have available. Warscrolls with a date of publication are always considered to have been published more recently than a warscroll that doesn’t have one. If you have two warscrolls for a unit and neither has a date of publication, you can choose which warscroll to use.

 

Edited February 1, 2019 by Duke of Gisoreux

[Amradiel]

2 hours ago, Sauriv said:

I don't own dragon ogres so don't trust me on this, but this are my thoughts .

all weapons have the same to hit/wound stats so this can be ignored.

Paired W. vs Crushers:

Same max dmg but differs in nr of attacks, due to reroll rule Paired weapons would perform better if you have a shaggoth. On the other hand crushers should perform better if you can add more attacks like with gavespawn ability.

Glaives

Has less max dmg but are more consistent dmg with rend. the range is also better.

Conclusion

Due to dragon ogres overall high defence i would reason that a drop in dmg (-30%) is worth for more consistency because they aren't glass-cannons and will survive for a few turns. the bigger the unit the more range becomes important too.

I have a Shaggoth and play Gavespawn

[Sauriv]

30 minutes ago, Amradiel said:

I have a Shaggoth and play Gavespawn

Then i would go glaives. 

That weapon has a nice spot in the middle. Best of two worlds

 

[Myrdin]

3 hours ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:

I regret to inform you, that as of 25/01/2019 Tzaangors are no longer allowed in Beasts of Chaos armies. Well, don't take this too serious as I don't think GW intended that. But here's how I came to it:

You may noticed that GW has a download section on their community page. Amongst others you can download a warscroll pdf for all models contained in Warhammer Quest Silver Tower. There is a publish date near the download link which says "Updated 25/01/2019". This means the warscrolls  contained in that PDF have a newer publish date than any warscroll before. But GW didn't actually insert new warscrolls in that PDF, but used the same old PDF that was published when Silver Tower was released.  So it contains the old Tzaangor warscroll that lacks the BRAYHERD und BEASTS OF CHAOS keywords. According to the FAQ below you are no longer allowed to use Tzaangors in a Beasts of Chaos army because they don't have the required keywords any more as they got removed by the most current warscroll. 

 

Edit: Hmm ok at first I was kinda pissed off, but thinking about this now that I calmed down a little, if this is purely for Silver Tower... do we even have to care ?

I mean this is only basic Tzaangors, and only for Silver Tower Format, so honestly it changes nothing for the actual BoC Battletome or the army itself no ? If nothing else Enlightened/Skyfires and Shaman aint affected by this. Maybe I should hold off from buying the infantry Tzaangors as I wanted to....

Edited February 1, 2019 by Myrdin

[The_Yellow_Sign]

10 hours ago, Amradiel said:

How do you equip your Dragon Ogors?  😊 I really wan't to try them. And I also want to know if I should field a blob of 6 or 2x3?

I have a slight personal preference for units of 6, though it depends how you plan to use them. 

Doesn't really matter much how you equip them, since the choices are all fairly similar. Glaive deals the least damage (even accounting for rend) but have reach 2, so can be useful to have one or two glaive-wielders on the flanks. Crushers and paired weapons deal the exact same damage on average, with crushers being spikier and paired weapons being more reliable. Crushers are the best choice if you plan to buff them with the Gavespawn CA, though I think you will in general have a better use for that (Enlightened, Bullgors, or Bestigors).

Edited February 1, 2019 by The_Yellow_Sign

[SwampHeart]

7 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Edit: Hmm ok at first I was kinda pissed off, but thinking about this now that I calmed down a little, if this is purely for Silver Tower... do we even have to care ?

I mean this is only basic Tzaangors, and only for Silver Tower Format, so honestly it changes nothing for the actual BoC Battletome or the army itself no ? If nothing else Enlightened/Skyfires and Shaman aint affected by this. Maybe I should hold off from buying the infantry Tzaangors as I wanted to....

I think he was mostly poking fun. I fully intend to continue to play with my Tzaangors, I'm not going to stop using a unit because of GW's bad copy and paste. 

[Dracan]

What is the general consensus or thoughts on the Chimeras?

I've got 3 from back in old fantasy days and now that BoC and and monsters can be fielded as an army again Im quite interested in a monster mash type list.

any suggestions on how to go about doing that?

Thinking of this list where the thunderscorn run up the board with chimeras and centigors the ungors and general shaman stay at the shrine and Bestigors/ungor raiders and shaman with titanic fury ambush.

 

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos
- Greatfray: Gavespawn
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (180)
- Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade 
- Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering Blades
Great Bray Shaman (100)
- General
- Trait: Unravelling Aura 
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of Atrophy
Great Bray Shaman (100)
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Titanic Fury

Battleline
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Ungors (60)
- Shortspears & Half-Shields

Units
6 x Dragon Ogors (280)
- 2x Draconic War glaives
- 4x Draconic Crushers
10 x Centigors (160)
20 x Ungor Raiders (160)

Behemoths
Chimera (240)
Chimera (240)
Chimera (240)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 156

[Skreech Verminking]

Hi there will be playing a small game of aos today.

the list I’ll be fielding is a more or less mashup of everything I just barley finished painting. So it contains: 

1Beastlord:90p

(General, gavespawn command ability and the gave..-artefact)

1Tzaangor shaman:180p

2x10Bestigors:240=

1x20Gors:160p

2x10ungor raiders:160p

1x3tzaangor enlightenment on disc:140p

Nothing special, but just trying out a thew  things for fun.

 

[MrCharisma]

I just recorded a Faction Focus video on the Beasts of Chaos with the 2 highest ranking BoC players at CanCon 2019: Joel McGrath (4th place) & Ryan Kirby (40ish place).

You may find their insights valuable; 

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by MrCharisma

[The_Yellow_Sign]

15 minutes ago, MrCharisma said:

I just recorded a Faction Focus video on the Beasts of Chaos with the 2 highest ranking BoC players at CanCon 2019: Joel McGrath (4th place) & Ryan Kirby (40ish place).

You may find their insights valuable; 

 

Thanks! Will listen to this while painting my Dragon Ogres tomorrow.

I'm really curious how Joel used his Wildfire Taurus, since it seems that he found it very useful.

[MrCharisma]

1 minute ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Thanks! Will listen to this while painting my Dragon Ogres tomorrow.

I'm really curious how Joel used his Wildfire Taurus, since it seems that he found it very useful.

For 100 points you definitely need to make the most out of it. He makes some great points, especially with Deepkin

[Skreech Verminking]

So tried my list out.

Its was quit interesting and lots of fun for me and my opponent, who played seraphon. You know those Bestigors and Beastlords, who wields the gavespawn artefact, with which every wound can deal out 3damage a piece, yeah well for some reason my ungors raiders and the holy mutated chaos spawn, did more damage😂 in the whole battle. I never really imaginedthat a unit of 10ungors could snipe terradons from the sky and still this units of meatshields, somehow even surpassed Aelven archers which traine themselves for hundreds and hundreds of years.

well in the end I had to concede, since my time was running out, and his summoning pool, surpassed mine.

So what can I say about the beasts of chaos?

well I think they are a very enjoyable armie similar to Gloomspite Gitz. They aren’t to overpowered, but still have some nasty shenanigans. Beeing able to run and charge, get bonuses on this roles, really let’s them dominate the movementphase and with it the objective game.

mix them with some heavy hitters like the eightenments, and you can even deal out some damage.

and if they die just summon them back afterwards and charge the nearest hero/general.

Also Gors might have been aight nerfed to the ground, but a unit of twenty of them with shields, will hold you the ground like nothing else, perfect objective holders. And in dire times, they will be able to holders d even the most aggressive units, although charging them into witch Alve is probaly still a nogo.

[Iron Fist]

Hello 

I'll tre this list for a further tornament.. 

Somebody have anything To say for upgrade my bestial force?

Thks

 

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos
- Greatfray: Gavespawn

Leaders
Doombull (120)
- Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade 
Great Bray Shaman (100)
- General
- Trait: Unravelling Aura 
Great Bray Shaman (100)
Great Bray Shaman (100)

Battleline
30 x Bestigors (300)
30 x Bestigors (300)
30 x Bestigors (300)
10 x Gors (80)
- Gor-Blades & Beastshields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields

Units
20 x Ungor Raiders (160)

Battalions
Desolating Beastherd (150)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)
Wildfire Taurus (100)

Total: 1930 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 153
 

[Lord Krungharr]

A Doombull with no Bullgors?  That's heresy!  But that's a ****** ton of bodies on the ground.  I think it would fare very well indeed.  Be careful with those Cogs as it can bite oneself in the rear with the enemy getting +2 to movement and charge rolls....especially if they double turn you.

I might also recommend buying at least one Spawn in there to start with.  Summoning will probably work out for it but then if you end up with 2 you can distribute the extra attack in more than one spot on the field.

[Lord Krungharr]

I'm making my 6 other Dragon Ogors for the Stormherd, my first 3 have the war-glaives.  I was thinking of doing all war-glaives but now I'm wondering if one unit with the paired ancient weapons is a good idea?  They get 1/3 more attacks but 1/6 less chance of penetrating armor.  But they also get to reroll 1's to hit, which means they can wander from the Shaggoth if needed and still hit well.  And vs crappy armor or armies that ignore rend that might be a good unit? 

I would love to make a crusher unit since they look really neat, but only 3 attacks, no rend and only 2 damage each, that seems just too crappy.

Anyone tried out the Thunderscorn at all?  Curious if that 2" range of the war-glaives is overrated.

 

[Iron Fist]

Thk,

 

Yeah! I still hesitate between the beastlord (6A 3+ 3+ dmg3 // 5PV 4 + svg) and the Doombull (3A 3+ 3+ dmg5 // 8PV 4 +) ...

Yes the cogs can be double-edged but can charge on a 7+ with 30 Bestigors in embuch on lap 1 can be great!

The Chaos Spawn, I thought invoke them .. because already I do not know what to remove from my list and there I have a single pose with the battalion (everything fits in)

Edited February 4, 2019 by Iron Fist

[Myrdin]

On 2/4/2019 at 4:26 AM, Lord Krungharr said:

I'm making my 6 other Dragon Ogors for the Stormherd, my first 3 have the war-glaives.  I was thinking of doing all war-glaives but now I'm wondering if one unit with the paired ancient weapons is a good idea?  They get 1/3 more attacks but 1/6 less chance of penetrating armor.  But they also get to reroll 1's to hit, which means they can wander from the Shaggoth if needed and still hit well.  And vs crappy armor or armies that ignore rend that might be a good unit? 

I would love to make a crusher unit since they look really neat, but only 3 attacks, no rend and only 2 damage each, that seems just too crappy.

Anyone tried out the Thunderscorn at all?  Curious if that 2" range of the war-glaives is overrated.

 

Paired weapons are good if you go against anything that ignores Rend.

Wast amount of units (all sorts of ghosts and wraiths + Nighthaunt) form Death come to mind with their 4+ perma save. Thats one of the cases where you need a lot of "firepower" rather than penetration. For Units like those I would consider going for 3 with paired.

Granted mine are all with warglaives, but I dont care about 100% WYSIWYG, this aint 40K with its myriad of ranged weapons. So far no issue has been raised so yeah. Alternatively if you are a person who wants everything to be according to WYSIWYG you might consider magnetizing their arms and swap as necessary. Its a bit tedious, especially if you lack the proper tools, but it does pay off in the end (coming from someone who plays battlesuit heavy Tau in 40K... yeah going back and magnetizing all 5 or so weapons for every single suit and the suit itself out of 15 was definitely a "good idea "though the words "tedious and annoying" does not do justice to the whole en-devour  ).

Edited February 5, 2019 by Myrdin

[SwampHeart]

On 1/30/2019 at 3:48 AM, Myrdin said:

On the note of our Endless spells. Has any one had any success with Dirge Horn ? I played around with some list that could incorporate it > Usually with a Tzaan Shaman as the spell carrier, since he is fast and can double cast once per game. Its fairly easy to dispell but if you push with stuff like Viletide, Arcane bolts and Tendrils > especially on enemy hero, they usually choose to protect the heroes rather than care about Dirge Horn. Have to try it out yet though.

Got to try this out this past weekend. I played 5 games over the course of the weekend all with a list that involved Dirgehorn and 4 casters. I tried a few varieties of casters (some double TzShaman double GBS, a Shaggoth + GBSs, and 2 games with Chaos Sorcerer Lords allied in). We were playing as prep for an upcoming event that used Realmscape features and command abilities but not spells. My 5 opponents were:

-IDK - Using the Ahkelian Battalion (turtle, shark, eels, king one)
-SCE - Pretty standard Sequitors and Evocators build
-2x LoN - One with Nagash, one with Arkhan, otherwise pretty standard builds
-Mixed Order - A double frostheart phoenix adventure

My game against IDK the plan worked well, I had the superior magic capacity and I was able to pressure his few unbinds which allowed me to get the Dirgehorn out and running. The debuff was very helpful with keeping the eels more under control and blunting some of their impact. Overall I'd rate this as an A+, best possible scenario for this set up.

Against SCE I was again able to make the plan work. I had 2 issues this game that didn't crop up against the IDK player, first he had more casting attempts to give up in his turn to attempt to unbind the dirgehorn (not crippling but gave him more options), and his ability to deepstrike in meant I had to better plan for the location of the dirgehorn (I placed it on an objective that I had Dragon Ogres set to score on). Still a really good performance, not quite as stellar as the IDK but another A. 

Both games against LoN the plan was a pretty miserable one. The capacity for Nagash or Arkhan to unbind is just so strong that I wasn't even able to get the dirgehorn on the table until late game and then its radius was too small to really impact the game. This was a worst case for the spell as it felt like I was playing 60 pts down both game. On the bright side I did still manage to win both of these games so I can't rate it an overall failure - it did at least factor in to my opponents' thought processes. 

Against Mixed Order I thought it was against fantastic. My opponent had plenty of good casters (to power up the Phoenixes) but the MW output was obviously a concern for him from Viletide (I used to antagonize his casters rather than the phoenix). Granted the turn it went down it did benefit the nearby Phoenix but I was able to use it to reduce the effectiveness of his Arknaut Crew which was very helpful in the early stages of the game.   This was a good B performance for the Dirgehorn set up. The only thing that kept it from being an A is the Dirgehorn doesn't do much to help you against the Phoenix tieing down units. 

I think as a whole I'd rate the concept behind your idea as a from B. It can work well and we've got access to cheap enough casters with cheap to cast spells to create some spell pressure. I'm not sure that its a list idea I'm going to stay committed to but I think if its something you wanted to give a go it has the legs to play with. As far as negatives - obviously if you meet one of the more dominant casting forces (Nagash, Arkhan, Alarielle, etc) you basically don't get to play with your toy. Also the overall impact can be minor depending on your opponent's army composition. But its definitely worth a shot overall and I think for some players will be a good fit. 

[Myrdin]

@SwampHeart Thanks for testing it out !

Yeah it was just a concept. Shoot the Tzaanshaman forward, plop it down in front of your enemy and surge forwarding playing into BoC strong mobiliy to create pressure around the horn, forcing your opponent to commit in an unfavorable position.

Sadly we lack the casting benefits... kinda miss the old Herdstone that buffed our casters Magic, but ah well. Against less magic lists with the proper setup it seems like a fun thing to play around, going with your report, and for me, as long as its fun (and not the "omfg I rofl stomped you so hard, lol git gud scrub" kind) thing to play with I am good

 

I also had a run with those Phoenixes. Downright nasty they are. Not only tough but 8 attacks 3+3+-1 2 is no joke. Plus they get a free rider with extra 4 attacks of the same profile with 1 dmg. Played against an full High Elf army, 2 Fenixes (yes "F", its annoying to write PHOE all the time), and a Drakeseer on dragon. Minotaurs are decent and taking it down, but the best counter for it was the Gorghon. The sheer amount of damage that thing can cause in a single round > and if you get a DB to compensate for the Fenixes -1 to Wound (this should be toned down. The range is to much. 9" is overkill), few lucky 6 to wound and you are slicing through that chicken like nobodys bussiness.
I have some photos somewhere, might write down a short bat. rep.

[Myrdin]

Received a newsletter from Mierce Mini.

Sooo..... yeah.... this guy is a thing now !
The different head makes it looks so much betters.  

(not sure about posting links, hence Spoiler tab. If its still an issue please let me know before cruelly banning me ><  Free Azyr of Stormcast Oppresion ! Long live the Great Beast Go(d)at ! Baaaah ! :D)

Spoiler

https://mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&amp;pre=mrm_blg_bnb_mon_042_000

 

Looking mighty fine for a Shaggy right there, buddy old chap !

*Just not sure if it can fit on the 90x52mm base hmm

Edited February 8, 2019 by Myrdin

[Kevin K]

1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

Received a newsletter from Mierce Mini.

Sooo..... yeah.... this guy is a thing now !
The different head makes it looks so much betters.  

(not sure about posting links, hence Spoiler tab. If its still an issue please let me know before cruelly banning me ><  Free Azyr of Stormcast Oppresion ! Long live the Great Beast Go(d)at ! Baaaah ! :D)

  Hide contents

https://mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&amp;pre=mrm_blg_bnb_mon_042_000

 

Looking mighty fine for a Shaggy right there, buddy old chap !

*Just not sure if it can fit on the 90x52mm base hmm

Does anyone know the size base it is on in the picture?  It says 94mm to the eyes which look to be more than the base length but it is hard to tell in the picture.

[Nymzee]

Hi guys, quick-ish question as a first time BoC player. 

Grabbed my Start Collecting boxset and was wondering what to make with it:

 

- Ungors or Ungor Raiders?

- Cygor or Ghorgon?

 

Also, do I bother making your standard bearers etc.? Just don’t want to waste money making models I effectively wouldn’t come to use. 

[stato]

18 minutes ago, Nymzee said:

Also, do I bother making your standard bearers etc.? Just don’t want to waste money making models I effectively wouldn’t come to use. 

Always make your unit upgrades, they are free and give benefits.  If you are using a unit of 30 then you dont NEED 3 banners, but its allowed and doesnt hurt as if they are scattered around the unit it means you can be more flexible removing casualties without losing their benefits.