AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Magnus The Blue]

Ok, version two of the list. Lost the command point and one unit of Bestigors, but that allows me to fit in a unit of ungor raiders to help push forward pre-turn one and bump a Centigor unit to 10.  Having played a few small practice games with Centigors, I'm absolutely in love with them. Beginning to suspect the ultimate Beast of Chaos list would basically be 3 * 40 Ungor, Beast Lord, Great Shaman and as many Centigor as you can fit in  (maybe a battalion).  But anyway, next try:

Dragon Orgor Shaggoth, General: Unravelling Aura, Artefact: Horn of the Tempest, Spell: Hailstorm,    180
Beast Lord, Artefact: Mutating Gnarleblade    90
Great Bray Shaman, Spell: Vicious stranglethornes    100
5 Centigors        80
5 Centigors        80
10 Centigors        160
6 Dragon Ogors    4 Crushers, 2 Glaives, Battleline    280
6 Dragon Ogors    4 Crushers, 2 Glaives, Battleline    280
6 Enlightened on disks        280
10 Ungors    Mauls, Battleline    60
10 Ungor Raiders, Battleline        80
10 Bestigors        120
Phantasmagoria of Fate Battalion        200
 

[Popisdead]

On 1/22/2019 at 6:34 AM, Magnus The Blue said:

yes, but unless your opponent also has all their army in a single detachment (not very common) you will finish deploying before them and thus has a choice for the first turn. So your opponent will have more than one drop about 80% of the time and for the remaining 20%, half the time you'll start deploying first and still get the choice of first turn., thus approximately 90% of the time you'll have the choice.

Every Sylvaneth army which is still popular and good enough these days.  Just keep that in mind. 

54 minutes ago, ageofpaddsmar said:

Do you guys think the gorbeast from the chaoa charoit is too big to convert into razorgor

Nope.  All mine in 8th were Orc Boars and if i didn't already have 8 or 9 painted up I would do the same.

12 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

  Having played a few small practice games with Centigors, I'm absolutely in love with them. Beginning to suspect the ultimate Beast of Chaos list would basically be 3 * 40 Ungor, Beast Lord, Great Shaman and as many Centigor as you can fit in  (maybe a battalion). 

If you like Centigors that much if you take the Slaanesh battalion and use the bonus move trait for Slaanesh (granted this means your allegiance is Slaanesh not BoC) they'll move even faster (+2" Move).  Also there was an episode of  the Honest Wargamer going into detail about Nurgle Centigors buffed by the Glotkin.

[Magnus The Blue]

25 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

Every Sylvaneth army which is still popular and good enough these days.  Just keep that in mind. 

Nope.  All mine in 8th were Orc Boars and if i didn't already have 8 or 9 painted up I would do the same.

If you like Centigors that much if you take the Slaanesh battalion and use the bonus move trait for Slaanesh (granted this means your allegiance is Slaanesh not BoC) they'll move even faster (+2" Move).  Also there was an episode of  the Honest Wargamer going into detail about Nurgle Centigors buffed by the Glotkin.

Yup, there are some other solid one drop armies but they are definitely in the minority.

Lol, the last thing Centigors need is move movement, with a shaman they are already charging an average of 28.5"!   

I do like the idea of a Nurgle Centigor force, but afraid I'm Tzeentch to the bone, so not one for me. 

[Myrdin]

1 hour ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Yup, there are some other solid one drop armies but they are definitely in the minority.

Lol, the last thing Centigors need is move movement, with a shaman they are already charging an average of 28.5"!   

I do like the idea of a Nurgle Centigor force, but afraid I'm Tzeentch to the bone, so not one for me. 

Count me in. Nurgle is loved way to much by people. Everyone I know who has a chaos army of any type be it 40K or AoS has this weird nurgle fanboyism going on.

I always liked the weaver of fate and master of magic most out of the big 4.

 

.....although thats a place holder until the God of true Chaos makes his comeback ! Hail Malal ! (They not gonna bring him back I know, but there were some more lore snippets here and there in 40K talking about the God of Anarchy and mayhem...... thats the true and proper Beastmen God right there ! Plus anyone who saw that cool artwork of a gigantic Beastmen holding a Keeper of Secrets greater demon of Slaanesh in his hand, slowly squishing it, and plays BoC just has to love this guy :3 )

Edited January 23, 2019 by Myrdin

[Rollsemfat]

Hi, first time posting but been watching for awhile. Just started AoS and haven’t played for about 15 yrs and am looking for advice before I purchase. I like Tzaangors and plan on painting them up like ravens but was wondering if a tzaangor army would be at least semi competitive. Not going to be playing tournaments but want to be able to hold my own in friendly games. Was thinking about something like:

2 Tzaangor Shamans

Great Bray Shaman

6 Enlightened on Disc

6 Skyfires

3x10 Tzaangors

2x10 Ungors

Phantasmagoria of Fate

2000pts

Haven’t thought too much about artifacts, traits or greatfrays for it yet but will do so if I decide to buy. What do you think waste of money or worth a shot?

 

 

[Kamose]

10 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Plus anyone who saw that cool artwork of a gigantic Beastmen holding a Keeper of Secrets greater demon of Slaanesh in his hand, slowly squishing it, and plays BoC just has to love this guy :3 )

Holy ****** that sounds awesome! I just started BoC and love Chaos Undivided side of them. Where is that picture from? Is there a link?

[The_Yellow_Sign]

2 hours ago, Rollsemfat said:

Hi, first time posting but been watching for awhile. Just started AoS and haven’t played for about 15 yrs and am looking for advice before I purchase. I like Tzaangors and plan on painting them up like ravens but was wondering if a tzaangor army would be at least semi competitive. Not going to be playing tournaments but want to be able to hold my own in friendly games. Was thinking about something like:

2 Tzaangor Shamans

Great Bray Shaman

6 Enlightened on Disc

6 Skyfires

3x10 Tzaangors

2x10 Ungors

Phantasmagoria of Fate

2000pts

Haven’t thought too much about artifacts, traits or greatfrays for it yet but will do so if I decide to buy. What do you think waste of money or worth a shot?

 

 

Yeah I think it's a pretty strong list. Tzaangors (especially Enlightened and Skyfires) are arguably the best units in Beasts of Chaos, and they work very well in units of 6. If you haven't already, watch Doom & Darkness to see how to correctly use Tzaangor Enlightened with the clip-charge trick behind an Ungor screen. 

[Skreech Verminking]

12 hours ago, Myrdin said:

.....although thats a place holder until the God of true Chaos makes his comeback ! Hail Malal ! (They not gonna bring him back I know, but there were some more lore snippets here and there in 40K talking about the God of Anarchy and mayhem...... thats the true and proper Beastmen God right there ! Plus anyone who saw that cool artwork of a gigantic Beastmen holding a Keeper of Secrets greater demon of Slaanesh in his hand, slowly squishing it, and plays BoC just has to love this guy :3 )

Does playing Boc but believing in the Horned rat count too?

Afterall he is a mayhem causing chaos god just like Malal.

 

And maybe Malal is a different name given from a long dead civilization, to the horned rat.🤔😃

[Myrdin]

I am not completely sure how posting links on this board works (if its allowed or not). So I`ll upload the fanart here under the Spoiler tab. Just a disclaimer though I think it should be clear - I did not make this, its merely something I found when researching about Malal the forsaken 5th Chaos God.

If interested I recommend reading up a little about him. He mostly appears in 40K but the "nature of Malal" is being reborn and brought back in different entities during the duration of Warhammer since its inception. Some people argue Malal is not cannon, some argue it is. Personally I care for neither. I find Malal perfectly fitting with the Beastmen theme, and it has kinda twisted romantic vibe to it all. The Chaos of the sake of Chaos itself, not to ever stabilize in one form or the other, not ever cast a mirror image in Order. Cannon or not, Malal/Malice/Necoho/Zuvassin/Archaon is a cool aspect of lore.

Spoiler

 

.

.

 

 

And just for the lolz, I will quote a snippet from  1D4chan summary article about this crazy nutjob

"Malal has a fortress in the Chaos Wastes in Warhammer Fantasy where he captures and trolls Greater Daemons by trapping them for all eternity unable to do whatever it is that they embody. This one Keeper of Secrets he has, for example, is caught in a field that nullifies all sensation so it can't indulge in cocaine fueled sex parties with Doomrider, thus eternally pissing off said daemon forever in the only way that works. He also put a Great Unclean One in a vat of disinfectant; blinded and binded a Lord of Change and put him in a stasis-field; and locked a Bloodthirster in an indestructible zen garden."

Edited January 24, 2019 by Myrdin

[Magnus The Blue]

7 hours ago, Rollsemfat said:

Hi, first time posting but been watching for awhile. Just started AoS and haven’t played for about 15 yrs and am looking for advice before I purchase. I like Tzaangors and plan on painting them up like ravens but was wondering if a tzaangor army would be at least semi competitive. Not going to be playing tournaments but want to be able to hold my own in friendly games. Was thinking about something like:

2 Tzaangor Shamans

Great Bray Shaman

6 Enlightened on Disc

6 Skyfires

3x10 Tzaangors

2x10 Ungors

Phantasmagoria of Fate

2000pts

Haven’t thought too much about artifacts, traits or greatfrays for it yet but will do so if I decide to buy. What do you think waste of money or worth a shot?

8

The big problem here is relying too much on 10 strong Tzaangor units for punch.  Once they lose two models they lose the extra attach and become 'meh' in combat.  If/when this happens to all your Tzaangor, you've only got two offensive threats left (Enlightened and Skyfires).

Personally I'm not a big fan of Tzaangor shamans, sooo expensive for a squishy unit that can't hold it's own in combat. One is probably justified in this list, given all the Tzaangor, but two (combined with the battalion) leaves you short on points for offensive threats. 

So I'd drop one shaman and upgrade the Tzaangor from 3*10 to 2*20 to give you a solid block with plenty of bite.

 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

11 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

The big problem here is relying too much on 10 strong Tzaangor units for punch.  Once they lose two models they lose the extra attach and become 'meh' in combat.  If/when this happens to all your Tzaangor, you've only got two offensive threats left (Enlightened and Skyfires).

Personally I'm not a big fan of Tzaangor shamans, sooo expensive for a squishy unit that can't hold it's own in combat. One is probably justified in this list, given all the Tzaangor, but two (combined with the battalion) leaves you short on points for offensive threats. 

So I'd drop one shaman and upgrade the Tzaangor from 3*10 to 2*20 to give you a solid block with plenty of bite.

 

I disagree on the Tzaangor Shaman. He's an excellent hero, and the only one with access to improved spellcasting via his once-per-game potion. He's incredibly fast, and also surprisingly killy for a wizard because he's on a Disk of Tzeentch (not that you should put him into combat except against lone support heroes). If he drops the Tzaangor Shaman, he's only got a single hero that's not babysitting the herdstone. He absolutely needs that third hero to be free, and a Tzaangor Shaman is the best choice for his list.

 

[Sauriv]

15 minutes ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

I disagree on the Tzaangor Shaman. He's an excellent hero, and the only one with access to improved spellcasting via his once-per-game potion. He's incredibly fast, and also surprisingly killy for a wizard because he's on a Disk of Tzeentch (not that you should put him into combat except against lone support heroes). If he drops the Tzaangor Shaman, he's only got a single hero that's not babysitting the herdstone. He absolutely needs that third hero to be free, and a Tzaangor Shaman is the best choice for his list.

 

Truly agree, from my experience with BoC, only 2 heroes feels very limiting for a few different lists i played with especially if you're trying to use the herdstone 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

3 minutes ago, Sauriv said:

Truly agree, from my experience with BoC, only 2 heroes feels very limiting for a few different lists i played with especially if you're trying to use the herdstone 

Yeah I run three heroes in my current list (Tzaangor Shaman, Shaggoth, Shaman) and even then I feel limited. I'm trying to make room for another Bray Shaman in in there so I have three heroes free.

[Rollsemfat]

Thanks for the input. I agree with both points of view. It would be nice to have at least one decent size block of infantry but I also think I am needing at least 3 heroes. I am playing mostly against nighthaunt so far and figured the banners from 3 units of tzaangors and sky fire shooting may help me take out some of the support heroes that always seem to be a thorn in my side. My other main opponent I will be playing uses Stormcast and while I have no expierence fighting them it seems like more MW’s might be nice. I could also drop 3 skyfires but not sure effective they will be in a unit of 3 instead of 6. I think I will order up what I had posted and work with it from there. Thanks to all those who responded to me. Always nice to get a bit of feedback before dumping a bunch of money into an army. 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

3 hours ago, Rollsemfat said:

Thanks for the input. I agree with both points of view. It would be nice to have at least one decent size block of infantry but I also think I am needing at least 3 heroes. I am playing mostly against nighthaunt so far and figured the banners from 3 units of tzaangors and sky fire shooting may help me take out some of the support heroes that always seem to be a thorn in my side. My other main opponent I will be playing uses Stormcast and while I have no expierence fighting them it seems like more MW’s might be nice. I could also drop 3 skyfires but not sure effective they will be in a unit of 3 instead of 6. I think I will order up what I had posted and work with it from there. Thanks to all those who responded to me. Always nice to get a bit of feedback before dumping a bunch of money into an army. 

I would strongly recommend against dropping 3 Skyfires; they definitely work best in units of 6, since they are very good in melee if they go first. 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

For anyone after cool third party sculpts: it's been essentially confirmed that the February announcement from Creature Caster will be a Beasts of Chaos-compatible model. 

One of the guys from the team said that it's their favourite model yet on Warhammer Weekly last night, so definitely looking forward to it. 

I'm really hoping it's a Shaggoth, but any sort of beastly model will make me happy!

Edited January 25, 2019 by The_Yellow_Sign

[newsun]

5 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

I would strongly recommend against dropping 3 Skyfires; they definitely work best in units of 6, since they are very good in melee if they go first. 

They go first, but are only okay. The enlightened are the melee unit. Could consider two units of them and gain 120pts.

[newsun]

I'd run it like this

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
Great Bray Shaman (100)
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)
20 x Tzaangors of Beasts of Chaos (360)
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Bestigors (120)
Phantasmagoria of Fate (200)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 155
 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

3 hours ago, newsun said:

They go first, but are only okay. The enlightened are the melee unit. Could consider two units of them and gain 120pts.

Enlightened certainly have a much higher ceiling in melee, but their output seriously drops when they are not going second (e.g. screen is destroyed, or they are attacking a strong behemoth like Vamp Lord on Zombie Dragon and can't do the clip charge trick).  The gap  in damage is not so large when Enlightened and Skyfires are both activating first.  

And Skyfires have long range shooting and MW output, which is extremely useful for dropping screens and 5 wound heroes. 

[clamo]

Hello! im new to Aos and chose beasts of chaos as my first army! i was hoping to get some advice on what to get to help me expand my collection so that i can get to 1000pts to play and eventually 2000pts! I think i want to do an Allherd army. just trying to figure out how to plan out my purchases. Plus what units should i get for summoning? Is the amount of summoning units pretty much a second beastmen army?  Currently i have a start collecting box, a beastlord, a box of gors and a herdstone. so thats:

Beastlord (90)

Great-bray shaman (100)

10x Gors (80)

- Gor-Blades & Beastshields

10x Ungors (60)

-Ungor blades

10x Bestigors (120)

Ghorgon (200)

x3 Bullgors (160)

 

Current plans are to get one or two more start collecting boxes and a chimera. Any other advice on  how to play the army and sort of the strategy that goes along with the units you recommend would be great! thanks

[The_Yellow_Sign]

18 hours ago, clamo said:

Hello! im new to Aos and chose beasts of chaos as my first army! i was hoping to get some advice on what to get to help me expand my collection so that i can get to 1000pts to play and eventually 2000pts! I think i want to do an Allherd army. just trying to figure out how to plan out my purchases. Plus what units should i get for summoning? Is the amount of summoning units pretty much a second beastmen army?  Currently i have a start collecting box, a beastlord, a box of gors and a herdstone. so thats:

Beastlord (90)

Great-bray shaman (100)

10x Gors (80)

- Gor-Blades & Beastshields

10x Ungors (60)

-Ungor blades

10x Bestigors (120)

Ghorgon (200)

x3 Bullgors (160)

 

Current plans are to get one or two more start collecting boxes and a chimera. Any other advice on  how to play the army and sort of the strategy that goes along with the units you recommend would be great! thanks

So unfortunately Beastlord is not very good at all in an Allherd list. A Beastlord is basically an artefact-delivery system, so you should generally only run him if you can equip him with a good artefact (e.g. Gavespawn Mutating Gnarlblade, Volcanic Axe, Sword of Judgement). And the best way to play Allherd is to take Aetherquartz Brooch as your second artefact (taking a Battalion to get a second one) so that you can generate loads of command points for summoning.

Similarly, Bullgors are less ideal in an Allherd list. You generally want to buff your Bullgors with a Doombull's command ability, but in Allherd you want to be using your CP either for generating summoning points, or for ignoring battleshock.

If you want to run those particular units that you have in your list, then Gavespawn or Darkwalkers (or no Greatfray at all) would be better choices from an optimization point of view.

With regards to summoning, most commonly I summon Ungors, Raiders, Bestigors, Enlightened on Disk, Chariots, Warhounds,  or a Chimera. Ungors and Raiders are good for stealing poorly defended objectives just by outnumbering your opponent, and Bestigors are good for challenging a small unit defending an objective. Chimera is good but I usually only summon it if I'm already comfortably ahead in the game and can safely bank summoning points. Each summoning point is worth roughly 20 points of units, and you get an average of 3 points per turn by sacrificing at the Herdstone. So on average you can summon 10 Ungors per turn. Allherd gives you an extra summoning point per CP spent, and Atherquartz gives you on average 1/2 a CP per CP spent.

For strategy, check out the Doom & Darkness youtube channel. He runs a Tzaangor- and Dragon Ogre-focused list, but has a lot of excellent advice regarding screening, movement, summoning etc.

[The_Yellow_Sign]

So Joel McGrath just took 4th place at CanCon with his goats! No Tzaangors in his list.

https://aosshorts.com/cancon-2019-results-and-awards/?fbclid=IwAR3oWM3wp91VomTeBQ71UeiV37C2Fti73W0WLypM5cseTpixHNNb2Y9q6SY

[Amradiel]

42 minutes ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

So Joel McGrath just took 4th place at CanCon with his goats! No Tzaangors in his list.

https://aosshorts.com/cancon-2019-results-and-awards/?fbclid=IwAR3oWM3wp91VomTeBQ71UeiV37C2Fti73W0WLypM5cseTpixHNNb2Y9q6SY

Impressive. Not my type of list but kudos to him 😊

[Pandamina]

33 minutes ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

No Tzaangors in his list.

There are no tzaangor units in desolating beastherd battalion, so that's probably why we don't see them in list. If there were any, i guess they would be here, because battalion rule is amazing with sheer amount of attacks Tzaangors and Enlightened have (not to mention gavespawn ability). 

[newsun]

https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/joel-mcgrath-beasts-of-chaos/

 

Looks good. Lots of chaff and some large units to deal with.