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AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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20 minutes ago, Ragnar Alpaca said:

I totally considered the chariots, but again, they look so bad that I don’t want to deal with them. You wouldn’t happen to have any good ideas to convert them?

also what do you mean by Total Commitment?

I haven't tinkered around with any conversions for them yet. Unfortunately the old standard of the Boar Chariot is no longer available - maybe working with the Chaos Chariot would be a good start (its a bit overwrought for Beasts but is probably the best option). 

Total Commitment is a scenario from the GHB who's primary feature is forcing all models to start on the table. Any units placed in reserves are considered dead so basically you don't get to put any of your units in Ambush in that scenario. 

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After my mulling and some playing I've come up with the following list for semi-competitive play based on the Phantasmagoria of Fate Battalion and Gravespawn great fray.

Dragon Orgor Shaggoth    General: Unravelling Aura, Artefact: Horn of the Tempest, Spell: Hailstorm,    180
Beast Lord    Artefact: Mutating Gnarleblade    90
Great Bray Shaman    Spell: Vicious stranglethornes    100
5 Centigors        80
5 Centigors        80
5 Centigors        80
6 Dragon Ogors    4 Crushers, 2 Glaives, Battleline    280
6 Dragon Ogors    4 Crushers, 2 Glaives, Battleline    280
6 Enlightened on disks        280
10 Ungors    Mauls, Battleline    60
10 Bestigors        120
10 Bestigors        120
Phantasmagoria of Fate Battalion        200
Command point        50

Comes in at a round 2000 and all in a single drop, so should get choice of first turn 90%+ of the time.

Hope to start trying it out next week, but any initial thought would be appreciated. With a battalion and extra command point I should have plenty to both stop nasty battleshock and dropping multiple 'Propagator of Devolution' mid game. 

Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

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5 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

After my mulling and some playing I've come up with the following list for semi-competitive play based on the Phantasmagoria of Fate Battalion and Gravespawn great fray.

Dragon Orgor Shaggoth    General: Unravelling Aura, Artefact: Horn of the Tempest, Spell: Hailstorm,    180
Beast Lord    Artefact: Mutating Gnarleblade    90
Great Bray Shaman    Spell: Vicious stranglethornes    100
5 Centigors        80
5 Centigors        80
5 Centigors        80
6 Dragon Ogors    4 Crushers, 2 Glaives, Battleline    280
6 Dragon Ogors    4 Crushers, 2 Glaives, Battleline    280
6 Enlightened on disks        280
10 Ungors    Mauls, Battleline    60
10 Bestigors        120
10 Bestigors        120
Phantasmagoria of Fate Battalion        200
Command point        50

Comes in at a round 2000 and all in a single drop, so should get choice of first turn 90%+ of the time.

Hope to start trying it out next week, but any initial thought would be appreciated. With a battalion and extra command point I should have plenty to both stop nasty battleshock and dropping multiple 'Propagator of Devolution' mid game. 

Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

 

Overall I like it a lot - I'm curious as to how you'll find 2 units of Dragon Ogres, I've used one as a defensive pivot in more than a few builds. I would suggest maybe dropping 2 centigors for 2 ungor raider units. Having that pre game move really helps you exert your screen more effectively which I think is pivotal. 

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22 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

Overall I like it a lot - I'm curious as to how you'll find 2 units of Dragon Ogres, I've used one as a defensive pivot in more than a few builds. I would suggest maybe dropping 2 centigors for 2 ungor raider units. Having that pre game move really helps you exert your screen more effectively which I think is pivotal. 

Dragon Ogres are conversions, Tzaangor heads and weapons, Gryph-charger body/legs and armoured torsos/arms from stormcasts. Makes them nice and Tzeetchy and about as bulky ask the official models 

Good point about raiders as an expanding screen, but I do love the centigors for their tactical flexibility (act as screens, tanks and can hit hard when charging drunk).  Will have a think about how to get some raiders in there.

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1 hour ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Dragon Ogres are conversions, Tzaangor heads and weapons, Gryph-charger body/legs and armoured torsos/arms from stormcasts. Makes them nice and Tzeetchy and about as bulky ask the official models 

Could you post some photos, please? 

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4 minutes ago, SugarMaple82 said:

Those look amazing, how hard was it making the bodies fit together? Is the main one going to be a dragon ogre shaggoth?

Thanks :)

Not that hard, for this first batch I just used to Stormcast bodies that came with the kits and they fit quite easily, but the positioning on some of the arms isn't quite how I'd like (see the two on the left with hammers in front of their faces).  Next batch are going to be using Retributor bodies and arms for two handed weapons (draconic crushers), so should have better positioning. 

Some green stuff fur covers all kinds of issues (and easy to do) as does the tzaangor shield they each have covering their back, but bodies really not hard to fit together.  Worst part was clipping the saddles, saddlebags etc off, so will probably break out the dremmel next time.

Yup, one up front will be a Shaggoth, but really needs some more impressive weapons (or weapon and a horn).

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Really like those conversion. I like Tzaangors overall as sculpts, and would love to see more of the God themed Bestigors (Khorne /Slaan/Pesti/gors), and I like conversion as well so double props from me.

For my Dragon Ogors I just went with the Beastmen boar riders from Mierce miniatures. Managed to get few of those for cheap, so that saved me lot of trouble.  Will have to figure out something for the Shaggoth though, that old ugly disproportional sculpt just aint doing it for me :D

As for the one drop army > Thats not a 90% guaranteed 1st turn. I mean all it does for you is +1 on the first roll off.

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1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

Really like those conversion. I like Tzaangors overall as sculpts, and would love to see more of the God themed Bestigors (Khorne /Slaan/Pesti/gors), and I like conversion as well so double props from me.

For my Dragon Ogors I just went with the Beastmen boar riders from Mierce miniatures. Managed to get few of those for cheap, so that saved me lot of trouble.  Will have to figure out something for the Shaggoth though, that old ugly disproportional sculpt just aint doing it for me :D

As for the one drop army > Thats not a 90% guaranteed 1st turn. I mean all it does for you is +1 on the first roll off.

10

Yes they are lovely sculpts, lots of detail, easy to build and lots of option. Would be great to get something similar for the other gods.

As of AOS 2.0 the first person to finish deploying can choice of first turn, don't know the page number off the top of my head but it's in the big rule book.

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14 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

The player who deploys first chooses to go first or second. 

But you still roll off to see who deploys first. Thats what I am talking about.

 

***

A question about Devolve > if anyone knows the answer.

Can you pull the target enemy unit closer then the obligatory 3" gap from your units ? We had a situation like this in my last game this week, and we decided to go with the 3" gap, but I still think the intention of the rule is to pull the as close as possible. How do you resolve this ?

Edited by Myrdin
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2 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

But you still roll off to see who deploys first. Thats what I am talking about.

yes, but unless your opponent also has all their army in a single detachment (not very common) you will finish deploying before them and thus has a choice for the first turn. So your opponent will have more than one drop about 80% of the time and for the remaining 20%, half the time you'll start deploying first and still get the choice of first turn., thus approximately 90% of the time you'll have the choice.

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I am sorry but I dont seem to understand the deploying in that case.

It seems we have been playing this wrongly for a while... which does not make me happy at all.

The way we played this so far was that you count the number of units in your  army and you roll off. Who ever has less units than the enemy gets a +1 to the roll. The one who wins, decided who deploys first, meaning that person also starts first.

Clearly that was completely wrong . Can you break it down for me how it actually works please ? 

Edited by Myrdin
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4 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

I am sorry but I dont seem to understand the deploying in that case.

It seems we have been playing this wrongly for a while... which does not make me happy at all.

The way we played this so far was that you count the number of units in your  army and you roll off. Who ever has less units than the enemy gets a +1 to the roll. The one who wins, decided who deploys first, meaning that person also starts first.

Clearly that was completely wrong . Can you break it down for me how it actually works please ? 

The players roll off to see who deploys first - the winner may choose to deploy the first or second unit. 

The player who finishes deploying first gets the choice of going first or second. 

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1 minute ago, Myrdin said:

I am sorry but I dont seem to understand the deploying in that case.

It seems we have been playing this wrongly for a while... which does not make me happy at all.

The way we played this so far was that you count the number of units in your and opponent army and you roll off. Who ever has less units then the enemy gets a +1 to the roll. The one who wins, decided who deploys first, meaning that person also starts first.

Clearly that was completely wrong . Can you break it down for me how it actually works please ? 

Lol, sure thing.

You roll off to see who picks deployment zone, the person who picks also deploys the first unit. Then alternate deploying units one at a time until both players are finished. The player who finished first gets to choose who goes first in the first round.

The important thing is that when deploying a battalion you can deploy all units in that battalion at the same time, so for my army list and others that are entirely in one battalion, you will almost always get choice of first turn.

The system you described is (almost) how it worked in AoS 1.0, so it's not uncommon for people to get the wrong end of the stick. 

As of AoS 2.0 one of the major advantages of battalions is more control over priority for turn one: a game-winning advantage against some armies. 

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Thanks a lot for the explanation. I dont have a core rulebook, and all the rules that have been taught to me were through playing the game and whatever knowledge I carried over from playing WFB and 40K, thus resulting in the strange mix :D

Seeing how the deployment works, now I can see the charm to take one of the less appealing battalions. I still think they are overpriced and should be buffed, but thats beside the point right now. Being able to one drop/two drop your entire army just like that, and gaining which ever turn you want (in few rare cases you want to go second). Btw why does papa Nurgle not like Razorgors ? 40 pts suicide pig with MW on top sounds absolutely legit to me :D

 

I had one more question regarding Devolve, before we got into this, and that how far can Devolve force you enemy to move ?

Do you have to respect the 3" gap from, or can it be pulled even closer ? The way we played is that we agreed upon respecting the 3" gap that a unit has to stop at when coming near enemy units, but personally the intention of the spell seems to me like its meant to pull them as close as possible. 

How do you guys resolve Devolve in your games in a situation where the range you pull the enemy units towards you results in them rolling high enough that they would be able to come into full contact with your unit.  I dont think I read anything about this in the FAQ

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3 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

Thanks a lot for the explanation. I dont have a core rulebook, and all the rules that have been taught to me were through playing the game and whatever knowledge I carried over from playing WFB and 40K, thus resulting in the strange mix :D

Seeing how the deployment works, now I can see the charm to take one of the less appealing battalions. I still think they are overpriced and should be buffed, but thats beside the point right now. Being able to one drop/two drop your entire army just like that, and gaining which ever turn you want (in few rare cases you want to go second). Btw why does papa Nurgle not like Razorgors ? 40 pts suicide pig with MW on top sounds absolutely legit to me :D

 

I had one more question regarding Devolve, before we got into this, and that how far can Devolve force you enemy to move ?

Do you have to respect the 3" gap from, or can it be pulled even closer ? The way we played is that we agreed upon respecting the 3" gap that a unit has to stop at when coming near enemy units, but personally the intention of the spell seems to me like its meant to pull them as close as possible. 

How do you guys resolve Devolve in your games in a situation where the range you pull the enemy units towards you results in them rolling high enough that they would be able to come into full contact with your unit.  I dont think I read anything about this in the FAQ

The core rules are fortunately available for free online; you don't actually need to buy the rulebook: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Rulesheets/ENG_AoSSW_Rules_booklet_web.pdf

Also, Devolve is covered by the FAQ (not by name, but this sort of movement rule is covered): the forced movement can bring units into combat.

Edited by The_Yellow_Sign
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30 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

Thanks a lot for the explanation. I dont have a core rulebook, and all the rules that have been taught to me were through playing the game and whatever knowledge I carried over from playing WFB and 40K, thus resulting in the strange mix :D

Seeing how the deployment works, now I can see the charm to take one of the less appealing battalions. I still think they are overpriced and should be buffed, but thats beside the point right now. Being able to one drop/two drop your entire army just like that, and gaining which ever turn you want (in few rare cases you want to go second). Btw why does papa Nurgle not like Razorgors ? 40 pts suicide pig with MW on top sounds absolutely legit to me :D

 

I had one more question regarding Devolve, before we got into this, and that how far can Devolve force you enemy to move ?

Do you have to respect the 3" gap from, or can it be pulled even closer ? The way we played is that we agreed upon respecting the 3" gap that a unit has to stop at when coming near enemy units, but personally the intention of the spell seems to me like its meant to pull them as close as possible. 

How do you guys resolve Devolve in your games in a situation where the range you pull the enemy units towards you results in them rolling high enough that they would be able to come into full contact with your unit.  I dont think I read anything about this in the FAQ

To clarify some more about movement. The difference is that the effects of Devolve is not a normal movement (which is restricted to not move into combat) . This is clarified in faq and i have a screenshot of a part of the text

Screenshot_20181222_134126.jpg

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On 1/21/2019 at 2:54 PM, Ragnar Alpaca said:

 

I totally considered the chariots, but again, they look so bad that I don’t want to deal with them. You wouldn’t happen to have any good ideas to convert them?

I'm intending on using the Orc Boar chariot, swap the boars out for chaos warhounds, and stick some Gor on to drive it. Job done.

Failing that, if you're at all crafty (hobby, not sneaky), you could pick some plastic wheels up from a bits seller, and build the frame out of some scrap wood/plasticard, which means you can really go to town with making this cobbled-together look. Use some chaos warhounds, or ork boar rider boars to pull it, and you'll be fine.

If you do that, you can then covert one or more of the ork boars into razorgors.

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