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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

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1 hour ago, Skoll said:

how are you guys dealing with night haunts?

Same way I deal with most other lists - die in droves but score first. They hurt a little more because we have a lot of armor negation that they ignore, but that doesn't really matter when I knew I was going to lose three quarters of my army from jump street. I basically take the first turn and move all out towards the objectives (and to establish a wall in the middle of the table) and then just grind with them. They win the fights eventually, but as long as I had the scoring lead through turn 3 it rarely matters. Plus I can summon as needed to force them to pay attention to objectives they have left open - the added pressure helps against most NH armies that don't like to baby sit objectives. 

Edited by SwampHeart

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This will sounds weird coming from me and all, but personally I think Tzaangors might be a good way to grind against NH.

Just take the paired blades, nice fat unit of 30 and go to town. Enough Wound and Attacks to make it happen. Since they have no rending with paired blades you are not loosing on anything either.

Dragon Ogers with paired weapons in unit of 6 might also be good for this.  Go Brass Desp and get those rerolls to boot. Those 30 wounds on 6 models will make a nice wall and 36 attacks  3+ 3+ should put enough scare into any Night Haunt player to just recklessly charge them. Plus you get the raking foreclaws extra attacks as well. Centigors are super cheap and on a drunk can get enough attacks in to be scary. Even more so if they are Brass Centigors. And they are very cheep for you to just throw them at the ghostesies.

Big blobs of Razorgors "might" be fun, though the 4+ hit rate hurts them a lot so while a unit of lets say 9 might looks scary on the charge, the math hammer says otherwise.

Chimera with its breath weapon and myriad of attacks is not a bad choice either. Really anything that has tons of attacks, and no real rending to speak off since its Worthless against them (still wish Herdstone actually affected them...). Avoid tough hitting stuff like Great weapon Bullgors, Gorghon and such.

Is all but theory though, but these units seem to be optimised for these sorts of fights where its not about how hard the punch is, but how many of them there are.

Edited by Myrdin
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5 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

This will sounds weird coming from me and all, but personally I think Tzaangors might be a good way to grind against NH.

Just take the paired blades, nice fat unit of 30 and go to town. Enough Wound and Attacks to make it happen. Since they have no rending with paired blades you are not loosing on anything either.

Dragon Ogers with paired weapons in unit of 6 might also be good for this.  Go Brass Desp and get those rerolls to boot. Those 30 wounds on 6 models will make a nice wall and 36 attacks  3+ 3+ should put enough scare into any Night Haunt player to just recklessly charge them. Plus you get the raking foreclaws extra attacks as well. Centigors are super cheap and on a drunk can get enough attacks in to be scary. Even more so if they are Brass Centigors. And they are very cheep for you to just throw them at the ghostesies.

Big blobs of Razorgors "might" be fun, though the 4+ hit rate hurts them a lot so while a unit of lets say 9 might looks scary on the charge, the math hammer says otherwise.

Chimera with its breath weapon and myriad of attacks is not a bad choice either. Really anything that has tons of attacks, and no real rending to speak off since its Worthless against them (still wish Herdstone actually affected them...). Avoid tough hitting stuff like Great weapon Bullgors, Gorghon and such.

Is all but theory though, but these units seem to be optimised for these sorts of fights where its not about how hard the punch is, but how many of them there are.

Brass Despoilers is a waste on Dragon Ogres since they already get reroll 1's from a Shaggoth.

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1 minute ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Brass Despoilers is a waste on Dragon Ogres since they already get reroll 1's from a Shaggoth.

And they already have a source of rerolling to wound with the base Shaggoth spell. 

If you're feeling really paranoid about Night Haunt, just ally in the Guant Summoner with familiars, it's base spell will ruin chainrasp hordes and being arcanite buffs any Tzaangors nearby.

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When did I ever say to bring a Shaggoth ?

Just because you bring Dragon Ogers that does not necessitate the inclusion of a Shaggoth.

And spells are something I am not willing to fully rely on EVER. Id rather take the battalion and have the bonus assured than to leave it to the whims of the dice gods Playing 40K with my Tau taught me that if you can exclude RnG reliance from your army, you do it as much as possible (Twinlinked weapons, marker lights, etc), because if the dice gods are allowed to mess with you, you better be damn sure they will :D

Edited by Myrdin

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True, you didn't say you'd bring one, but it's a solid option with similar cost to the battalion.  Obviously which is best depends on the rest of your force.

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10 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

When did I ever say to bring a Shaggoth ?

Just because you bring Dragon Ogers that does not necessitate the inclusion of a Shaggoth.

And spells are something I am not willing to fully rely on EVER. Id rather take the battalion and have the bonus assured than to leave it to the whims of the dice gods Playing 40K with my Tau taught me that if you can exclude RnG reliance from your army, you do it as much as possible (Twinlinked weapons, marker lights, etc), because if the dice gods are allowed to mess with you, you better be damn sure they will :D

Why would you run Dragon Ogres without a Shaggoth? It's like running Enlightened/Skyfires without a Tzaangor Shaman. 

Even if you're not using Dragon Ogres, Shaggoth is arguably the best hero in Beasts of Chaos, and has the best command trait: Ancient Without Knowing. He's worth taking just for that trait. 

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2 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

And they already have a source of rerolling to wound with the base Shaggoth spell. 

If you're feeling really paranoid about Night Haunt, just ally in the Guant Summoner with familiars, it's base spell will ruin chainrasp hordes and being arcanite buffs any Tzaangors nearby.

Wait the gaunt aummomer can be allied into a boc army.

didnt knew he had the slave to darkness keyword🤔

Edited by Skreech Verminking

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3 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

If you're feeling really paranoid about Night Haunt, just ally in the Guant Summoner with familiars, it's base spell will ruin chainrasp hordes and being arcanite buffs any Tzaangors nearby.

Alas we cannot take him - he isn't StD which is our only ally choice. I truly wish we had a better ally selection because there is some grade A filth available if we did.

Edited by SwampHeart

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1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

When did I ever say to bring a Shaggoth ?

Just because you bring Dragon Ogers that does not necessitate the inclusion of a Shaggoth.

Taking Dragon Ogres without a Shaggoth is an inefficient choice. Dragon Ogres aren't a particularly effective choice but when you have a Shaggoth (General) they can then fill a battleline slot and become much more efficient with access to re-rolls and other buffs depending on your load out. 6 with a Shaggoth makes a good defensive pivot but I'd never field them without a Shaggoth because there are just better ways to spend the points otherwise. 

 

Edited by SwampHeart

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2 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

My bad, I was convinced I saw an updated allies list with broader options for BoC, but can't find it now, so must have been a dream :(

 

 

Yeah, I wish.

The SoD restriction for allies is beyond *insert a very strong cuss word*.

Would open up so much more fun lists.

 

As for the "optimal" or whatnot. I am not a tournament player, Rather then going for ultimate optimal uber list, I swap stuff around every single game. Try new things out, put in and put out units, etc etc. If I run Brass despoilers, I couldnt care less about the Shaggoth rerolls for DO, and as for battle line, there is always at least two min. units of ungors in my list for sacrificing and objective holding / back up sacrificing. You guys might not agree with it, but whats important is whether the person in question has fun playing it one way or another ;)

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Is anyone playing any lists with 200 Ungor?  

I've started writing some twists and it seems to be a solid option.  200 points for 40.  5 units.  Might seem spammy but it would be quick and easy to push them around the table.

The other 1000 points would need to do the heavy lifting but sheer weight of numbers should be hard to deal with.  

Has anyone played a full horde???

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26 minutes ago, Ben said:

Is anyone playing any lists with 200 Ungor?  

I've started writing some twists and it seems to be a solid option.  200 points for 40.  5 units.  Might seem spammy but it would be quick and easy to push them around the table.

The other 1000 points would need to do the heavy lifting but sheer weight of numbers should be hard to deal with.  

Has anyone played a full horde???

You're going to struggle with battleshock in the first few rounds, so probably better to split most of those into 10-man chaff units, with just one or two 40-man units with spears.

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5 hours ago, Ben said:

Is anyone playing any lists with 200 Ungor?  

I've started writing some twists and it seems to be a solid option.  200 points for 40.  5 units.  Might seem spammy but it would be quick and easy to push them around the table.

The other 1000 points would need to do the heavy lifting but sheer weight of numbers should be hard to deal with.  

Has anyone played a full horde???

The battleshock will kill you.  Ungors aren’t a good tarpit unless in range of the stone. 

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I don't know.  If people are concentrating on hitting the blobs then you are happy with that right?  Build some CP's into the list.  30+ Ungor are Bravery 7.  If you kill 9 and roll a 6 only 8 die.  It's hardly devastation.  

 

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11 minutes ago, Ben said:

I don't know.  If people are concentrating on hitting the blobs then you are happy with that right?  Build some CP's into the list.  30+ Ungor are Bravery 7.  If you kill 9 and roll a 6 only 8 die.  It's hardly devastation.  

 

Unless I'm missing something, ungors are bravery 4, not that it really matters.  The problem is that any half unit will easily dish out 15+ wounds, with another 10ish from battle shock, add a decent combat hero or another small unit and your 200 point unit is wiped out in one turn (and likely done little damage).  Most armies will be able to comfortably do this to 3 units a turn so you'll quickly burn through any extra CP.

I'm not saying it's awful but you need to think carefully about what the other 1000 point will be and make sure it can work around the 200 models getting in it's way.  Enlightened on disks feels like an obvious compliment as they can fly, have big damage output for a small footprint and excel at engaging units that are already stuck in a tarpit.

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4 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Unless I'm missing something, ungors are bravery 4, not that it really matters.

+1 bravery for each full 10. So if they got knocked down to 32, they'd be base bravery 4 +1 +1 +1  for 7 total.

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17 hours ago, Ben said:

Is anyone playing any lists with 200 Ungor?  

I've started writing some twists and it seems to be a solid option.  200 points for 40.  5 units.  Might seem spammy but it would be quick and easy to push them around the table.

The other 1000 points would need to do the heavy lifting but sheer weight of numbers should be hard to deal with.  

Has anyone played a full horde???

No only tried the list with 200++ Clanrats out. 

Sadly ungors seem to cost more than a unit of clanrats (moneywise) 

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1 hour ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

+1 bravery for each full 10. So if they got knocked down to 32, they'd be base bravery 4 +1 +1 +1  for 7 total.

I might be overlooking something, but the only thing Ungors get for bigger unit size is rerolling 1 and 2s. 

Has there been some unit update FAQ I am not aware off ?

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18 hours ago, Ben said:

Is anyone playing any lists with 200 Ungor?  

I've started writing some twists and it seems to be a solid option.  200 points for 40.  5 units.  Might seem spammy but it would be quick and easy to push them around the table.

The other 1000 points would need to do the heavy lifting but sheer weight of numbers should be hard to deal with.  

Has anyone played a full horde???

On paper I think this is a viable strategy. So viable I've been experimenting with 120 of them w/ phantasmagoria in a Tzeentch list. Some armies just struggle with 120 (or 200) bodies clogging the arteries of play. And as you point out you still have 1000+ points for your hammers and tricks and such. I'll let you know my findings. 

Edited by Mephisto

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18 hours ago, Ben said:

Is anyone playing any lists with 200 Ungor?  

I've started writing some twists and it seems to be a solid option.  200 points for 40.  5 units.  Might seem spammy but it would be quick and easy to push them around the table.

The other 1000 points would need to do the heavy lifting but sheer weight of numbers should be hard to deal with.  

Has anyone played a full horde???

Proxied it a few times while play testing various builds - its been fairly effective overall. My biggest issue is actually moving them around the table (even with movement trays once you get to combat it just takes time to pile in properly and the like). And while that's not a game issue it is a concern when you're practicing/playing in events with timed rounds. The battleshock wasn't a major issue and I was able to bring close to as much punch as I wanted (never can quite get enough), but ultimately it was taking too much time and my ability to play games out to a real conclusion was being impacted. 

I have tinkered around with 80 Ungors which still gets you a lot of bodies on the table but doesn't impact your play time as much. And at only 400 points they're not a bad buy at all to bubble wrap objectives or enlightened. 

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Yeah, the sheer faff of moving 200+ models around the table would put me right off, did 130 model 40k army for 2 years and that was painful enough.

Just hope you don't face the previously mentioned Guant Summoner, who with battle-shock will single kill about 40 a round!

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2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

No only tried the list with 200++ Clanrats out. 

Sadly ungors seem to cost more than a unit of clanrats (moneywise) 

Well I only tried it out with my skaven forces.

since I lack the amount of ungors, you were describing.

since clanrats are somewhat similar to ungors, i can tell you that 200++ meatshields, aren’t that bad. Loosing around 80of those ungors at the spot, will not really impress to many people.

Afterall who cares for small fragile weak-things. 

Best part of having so many meatshields is, that your foe/friend/opponent will struggle with making decisions and finding a.good spot to let their biggest and badest units to alphastrike and charge.

belive me I played around 400clanrats/giant rats ones, and well won thanks to the ability in taking very single objective on the Board.

(Aslo I killed 75%of my opponents army.)

never underestimate a horde of clanrats.

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