AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Kaleb Daark]

8 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

I don't think he ever had a model, so that's why he's not in there.

yea... but we do need a new plastic doombull, so they might as well make it a dual kit...

crack on GW...crack on...

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, Kaleb Daark said:

yea... but we do need a new plastic doombull, so they might as well make it a dual kit...

crack on GW...crack on...

Well there are so many minis, which could use an update in the boc army roster😭.

[Magnus The Blue]

Just got a little click happy on Ebay and bought the bitz to covert up 15 Dragon Ogors and a Shaggoth.  Long term planning to build them up to full 2k army but for now thinking of something like this for 1k:

Shaggoth: Father of Storms, Horn of the Tempest, Hailstorm

Great Bray Shaman: Vicious Stranglethorns

6 Dragon Ogors with 3 Ancient weapons, 3 War glaives

6 Dragon Ogors with 3 Ancient weapons, 3 War glaives

3 Dragon Ogors with 3 Ancient weapons

Soulshackle Snares

 

The plan is simple, 3 Ogors and Shaman hang by the Herd stone for summoning while the Shaggoth and 12 Ogors rush one flank.  Hope to use superior movement and movement impairing spells out overpower one flank and fight my opponents army piecemeal.  Not 100% sure on the focus on movement with Artifact and General trait but I like the reliable turn one charges as my damage output isn't amazing, so I need to start smashing early.

Any thoughts on how to improve it?

[Myrdin]

4 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well there are so many minis, which could use an update in the boc army roster😭.

I know right ?

Its like a huge cash cow. Make the minis and watch them sell out like hot bread on a Sunday morning !

I dont believe that with the relatively big success the BoC book garnered, with many new players starting the army from s scratch, GW is not planning on releasing some new stuff for us, even if its just updated models. I mean look at the old metal Khorngors, Pestigors and such, they got sold out rather fast, so the market certainly has the buying power and interest required for.
Hope they wont be lazy and instead just plop another stupid copy-paste looking Stormcast subfaction (yes I honestly despise that faction and wast amount of models associated with it, with only few exceptions).

+++MOD EDIT+++ Please think about what you type

Edited November 28, 2018 by RuneBrush
MOD EDIT: Removed inappropriate wording

[Congratz]

Looking for a competitive list, can someone help?
I really like the Greatfray: Gavespawn. 
I normaly play against: Duradin, Maggotkin, Khorne, Sylvaneth and Beastclaw Raiders.
Thanks Before hand

[Tasman]

1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

I know right ?

Its like a huge cash cow. Make the minis and watch them sell out like hot bread on a Sunday morning !

I dont believe that with the relatively big success the BoC book garnered, with many new players starting the army from s scratch, GW is not planning on releasing some new stuff for us, even if its just updated models. I mean look at the old mental Khorngors Pestigors and such, they got sold out rather fast, so the market certainly has the buying power and interest required for.
Hope they wont be lazy and instead just plop another stupid copy-paste looking Stormcast Retardant (yes I honestly despise that faction and wast amount of models associated with it, with only few exceptions).

Ditto on the SCE remark. Space Marines really have no place in Fantasy, imo. They've certainly gotten all the love as far as new releases. I'd like to see the chaos factions get a little of that attention, BoC, Slaanesh (hopefully Wrath and Rapture addresses this), and Skaven need some new stuff for sure.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Tasman

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Tasman said:

Ditto on the SCE remark. Space Marines really have no place in Fantasy, imo. They've certainly gotten all the love as far as new releases. I'd like to see the chaos factions get a little of that attention, BoC, Slaanesh (hopefully Wrath and Rapture addresses this), and Skaven need some new stuff for sure.

Give skaven the love the need!!!

Edited November 28, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[Skoll]

8 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Give skaven the love the need!!!

but BoC need it a hell of a lot more, Skaven got the vermin lord, tanquol and the stormfiends during the butt end of End Times. which are absolutely stunning . Beastmen's newest model that didnt just get taken from another army are the ghorgon and cygor, which came out in 7th edition.

[SwampHeart]

2 hours ago, Congratz said:

Looking for a competitive list, can someone help?
I really like the Greatfray: Gavespawn. 
I normaly play against: Duradin, Maggotkin, Khorne, Sylvaneth and Beastclaw Raiders.
Thanks Before hand

Gavespawn's Artifact works best (IMO) on a Beastlord, he has a high volume of relatively accurate attacks with a built in re-roll of 1s to hit to help mitigate the downside. This is one of the few ways I think a Beastlord actually works really well in a list - he becomes a very solid blender. The command ability is very solid but requires planning, I think the best way to implement it is to summon spawn rather than purchase them in your list. When you purchase them their random movement can be very difficult to account for when trying to plan out a turn (stacking the command ability on a single unit multiple times is a game changer) - however when you summon them you know where and how they can come in and thus you can plan for it much more easily (and can bank the points needed so you can guarantee it).  Unravelling Aura is solid, there's not much to it but its nice because its just an always on ability. The last trick with Gavespawn that I really like is using our 'make a spawn from a dead hero' ability to create really tricky scenarios for your opponent. This requires some understanding how pile in mechanics (closest enemy model) and things like that but you can really use that spawn to make it hard for your enemy to pile in or get closer to an objective with clever positioning. 

Sorry for the wall of text there but I hope that helps a little with Gavespawn specifics. Outside of those most of the army works just like any other BoC army - cheap bodies, a few good if glass hammers, very fast. My general suggestion is to focus on board control - learn to fan out fast score early, you're going to lose models by the handful but who cares if you jumped the lead early and can grind out protecting it. 

Hopefully this is more productive than complaining about SCE (its tired and old, they're an army and some people even like them). 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by SwampHeart

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, SwampHeart said:

Hopefully this is more productive than complaining about SCE (its tired and old, they're an army and some people even like them). 

 

Always those complaints.

first we have people (including myself) complaining about stormcast etc., then there are people complaining about people who complain about their so beloved Stormcast Army.

next to that we have people who complain about the complainers, complaining about whining people , complaining about stormcast.

and now we have people complaining about the complainers, complaining about people who complain about the other people who complain about stormcast.

I’m not sure if this endless cycle of corrupted complains can be stopped.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[kenshin620]

4 hours ago, Skoll said:

but BoC need it a hell of a lot more, Skaven got the vermin lord, tanquol and the stormfiends during the butt end of End Times. which are absolutely stunning . Beastmen's newest model that didnt just get taken from another army are the ghorgon and cygor, which came out in 7th edition.

I can hear Seraphon going "get in line!"😅

But in all seriousness I actually kind of doubt new BoC models would come for a long while, unless you count 40k chaos beastmen.

BoC just aren't "important" to the grand scheme of things. I've mentioned this a while ago but any time in the fluff Beasts are in a battle, you could easily turn them into Slaves to Darkness Marauders and the end result would be the exact same. Dudes wearing no shirts smash things in the name of chaos. This Battletome imo was an "experiment" , more so than others like Bonesplitterz or Flesh Eaters (who at least have gotten a bit more of a fluff shift from original WFB).

The fact that no one saw the BoC book coming (except for dead hard believers in the AoS 2.0 preview) speaks volume on GW's investment into BoC. Compare that to the 4 Harbingers in Malign Portents which also includes the new snazzy Shadespire warbands. Even the New Player magazine they created to help get people into AoS has no mentioning of BoC, meanwhile has a excerpt on Skaven (not just Clan Pestilens, Skaven as a whole).

Unless theres some big campaign where Morghul or Kholek or "New Uberbeast McHorn Dude (TM)" show up, I'm not sure if BoC should expect anything for a good year or so.

 

I know I made a Seraphon joke but I would put money on a Seraphon model (and book) update over a BoC update. Seriously they made this massive fluff change, made lizards into order daemons, made them very "important" (relatively) in the fluff as the nemesis to Chaos, but yet still have to make do with old 6th edition plastics (those saurus knights uuuuugh) and plenty of metal/resin sculpts. How they still lack a plastic slaan is astounding to me. (though Eldar also still have no plastic Avatar for...reasons)

Of course that also being said I also suspect GW is trying to milk plastic sets for all their worth. So update things like saurus knights is probably out of the question. But they could at least finally update Kroxigors, especially with the Total War change.

 

And dont get me wrong, I love Beasts! But I'm reading between the lines a lot and the entire release of the BoC Battletome to me says "low cost investment to push some of our existing products". Especially since they've been taking risks with atypical model releases with the likes of Kill Team Rogue Trader or Adeptus Titanicus.

[Skoll]

3 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

I can hear Seraphon going "get in line!"😅

But in all seriousness I actually kind of doubt new BoC models would come for a long while, unless you count 40k chaos beastmen.

BoC just aren't "important" to the grand scheme of things. I've mentioned this a while ago but any time in the fluff Beasts are in a battle, you could easily turn them into Slaves to Darkness Marauders and the end result would be the exact same. Dudes wearing no shirts smash things in the name of chaos. This Battletome imo was an "experiment" , more so than others like Bonesplitterz or Flesh Eaters (who at least have gotten a bit more of a fluff shift from original WFB).

The fact that no one saw the BoC book coming (except for dead hard believers in the AoS 2.0 preview) speaks volume on GW's investment into BoC. Compare that to the 4 Harbingers in Malign Portents which also includes the new snazzy Shadespire warbands. Even the New Player magazine they created to help get people into AoS has no mentioning of BoC, meanwhile has a excerpt on Skaven (not just Clan Pestilens, Skaven as a whole).

Unless theres some big campaign where Morghul or Kholek or "New Uberbeast McHorn Dude (TM)" show up, I'm not sure if BoC should expect anything for a good year or so.

 

I know I made a Seraphon joke but I would put money on a Seraphon model (and book) update over a BoC update. Seriously they made this massive fluff change, made lizards into order daemons, made them very "important" (relatively) in the fluff as the nemesis to Chaos, but yet still have to make do with old 6th edition plastics (those saurus knights uuuuugh) and plenty of metal/resin sculpts. How they still lack a plastic slaan is astounding to me. (though Eldar also still have no plastic Avatar for...reasons)

Of course that also being said I also suspect GW is trying to milk plastic sets for all their worth. So update things like saurus knights is probably out of the question. But they could at least finally update Kroxigors, especially with the Total War change.

 

And dont get me wrong, I love Beasts! But I'm reading between the lines a lot and the entire release of the BoC Battletome to me says "low cost investment to push some of our existing products". Especially since they've been taking risks with atypical model releases with the likes of Kill Team Rogue Trader or Adeptus Titanicus.

but lizardmen got several kits from the 8th edition release , so they are actually behind us in that line. From releases we are mostly behind  brettonia only, and it looks like they just will never see an update again.

[angrycontra]

13 hours ago, Skoll said:

but BoC need it a hell of a lot more, Skaven got the vermin lord, tanquol and the stormfiends during the butt end of End Times. which are absolutely stunning . Beastmen's newest model that didnt just get taken from another army are the ghorgon and cygor, which came out in 7th edition.

Thing is though, while I agree that Skaven have gotten some terrific models and BoC has been left in the corner, BoC overall have actually more complete range as far as plastic models are concerned (and many of them still good looking). Skaven on the other hand... Clan moulder's entire range needs update with the exception of abomination (there is good looking rat ogors in that spire of dawn set but nobody wants to build army based on 2 models that are repeated), clan eshin night runners are so old that they still require glueing tails on the models while gutter runners are metallic, great majority of skyre models are metallic (stormfiends, doomwheel and warp cannon are the only skyre plastic models, plus 2 of the weapon teams). On top of that most hero models are metallic. In BoC only some heroes, some chariot, some of the monsters (plus centigors) are metallic/resin and the rest are decent looking plastic models.

And like mentioned above, Skaven are generally more popular as a faction. They haven't even got proper  battletome and they still show up on tournaments frequently while hardly anyone brought beastmen even as a mixed chaos list when it was possible before the battletome. With that said, I don't think GW will abandon beastmen, but I don't think they're getting any new stuff for good couple of years.

[Skreech Verminking]

48 minutes ago, angrycontra said:

And like mentioned above, Skaven are generally more popular as a faction. They haven't even got proper  battletome and they still show up on tournaments frequently while hardly anyone brought beastmen even as a mixed chaos list when it was possible before the battletome. With that said, I don't think GW will abandon beastmen, but I don't think they're getting any new stuff for good couple of years.

Well at least we got a beautiful battletome, which owns some great lore aspects and the allegiance ability seem to be alright.  (The only thing  now missing is a grand skaven battletome for my over 10 000points army of rat man.)

Edit: skaven showing up frequently on tournaments? Must have been the beginning of aos, because since aos 2.0dropped I haven’t seen any skaven army beeing used in any of the grand tournaments. (exception would be that 1guy who played skyre)

Edited November 29, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[The_Yellow_Sign]

3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well at least we got a beautiful battletome, which owns some great lore aspects and the allegiance ability seem to be alright.  (The only thing  now missing is a grand skaven battletome for my over 10 000points army of rat man.)

Edit: skaven showing up frequently on tournaments? Must have been the beginning of aos, because since aos 2.0dropped I haven’t seen any skaven army beeing used in any of the grand tournaments. (exception would be that 1guy who played skyre)

Sydney GT 2018 had three Skaven lists I believe, and Australian Masters had 2 as well. NZ Masters this year is 10% Skaven.

[Skreech Verminking]

53 minutes ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Sydney GT 2018 had three Skaven lists I believe, and Australian Masters had 2 as well. NZ Masters this year is 10% Skaven.

😨😅😍

Edit: SKAVEN ARMYS FULLY WITH THE KEYWORD SKAVEN, or are we counting armies with like 1 or 2units of something skaveni 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[The_Yellow_Sign]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

😨😅😍

Edit: SKAVEN ARMYS FULLY WITH THE KEYWORD SKAVEN, or are we counting armies with like 1 or 2units of something skaveni 

Yep they were all (or almost all) Skaven. You can look up the Syndeny GT and Australian Masters lists, but here's two from  the upcoming NZ Masters: 

 

 

 

[Skreech Verminking]

Thanks, that’s really interesting.

didnt know that there were still people playing and using them on tournis.

 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

5 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Thanks, that’s really interesting.

didnt know that there were still people playing and using them on tournis.

 

Yeah and a  guy placed second in this year's Sigmonkey Tournament in NZ with Skryre. Same guy won the 2017 Masters Tournament.

[Magnus The Blue]

Spoiler

On 11/28/2018 at 3:00 PM, SwampHeart said:

Gavespawn's Artifact works best (IMO) on a Beastlord, he has a high volume of relatively accurate attacks with a built in re-roll of 1s to hit to help mitigate the downside. This is one of the few ways I think a Beastlord actually works really well in a list - he becomes a very solid blender. The command ability is very solid but requires planning, I think the best way to implement it is to summon spawn rather than purchase them in your list. When you purchase them their random movement can be very difficult to account for when trying to plan out a turn (stacking the command ability on a single unit multiple times is a game changer) - however when you summon them you know where and how they can come in and thus you can plan for it much more easily (and can bank the points needed so you can guarantee it).  Unravelling Aura is solid, there's not much to it but its nice because its just an always on ability. The last trick with Gavespawn that I really like is using our 'make a spawn from a dead hero' ability to create really tricky scenarios for your opponent. This requires some understanding how pile in mechanics (closest enemy model) and things like that but you can really use that spawn to make it hard for your enemy to pile in or get closer to an objective with clever positioning. 

Sorry for the wall of text there but I hope that helps a little with Gavespawn specifics. Outside of those most of the army works just like any other BoC army - cheap bodies, a few good if glass hammers, very fast. My general suggestion is to focus on board control - learn to fan out fast score early, you're going to lose models by the handful but who cares if you jumped the lead early and can grind out protecting it. 

Hopefully this is more productive than complaining about SCE (its tired and old, they're an army and some people even like them). 

 

 

 

 

SwampHeart hit the nail on the head. Personally, I'd focus on lots of cheap heroes and a battalion to minimise the number of drops. Khorn battalion is the most obvious contender,  with a few Shamans to get everyone moving fast. Generall battleplan would be to swarm objectives turn one and grind out victories through board control and speed more than killing the other army. Personally, I think Centigors are brilliant for this: hardy, fast and cheap with the abilities to take out support units with a drunken charge, also nice synergy with the battalion.  A unit or two of 10 ambushing Bestigors will keep your enemy spread thin turn one, while you build up some summoning points to place spawns in key areas when things get bloody. Comboing your gravespawn command ability with beastlord's or Khone once per game buff can make any reasonably large unit into a blender, just 10 beastigors can through regularly throw out 20+ wounding hit once you start stacking buffs with a charge.

[Saiken]

Is anyone in here using the Depraved Drove (Slaanesh battalion) ?

I have a hard time really understanding :
- How it would be beneficial using it in a Slaanesh Force
- What combination of Units benefit the most from Battalion (Rerolling failed Hits and Charge)

I love my BoC, but I fell in love with that Herald with Harp, and I definitely want to play Noise Marines in 40K
So I guess it would be a pretty good option to use that battalion.

[Magnus The Blue]

12 minutes ago, Saiken said:

Is anyone in here using the Depraved Drove (Slaanesh battalion) ?

I have a hard time really understanding :
- How it would be beneficial using it in a Slaanesh Force
- What combination of Units benefit the most from Battalion (Rerolling failed Hits and Charge)

-I love my BoC, but I fell in love with that Herald with Harp, and I definitely want to play Noise Marines in 40K
So I guess it would be a pretty good option to use that battalion.

1

The battalion ability is 'ok' but as with the Tzeentch one has the advantage of being very flexible, thus you can put your entire force in it and almost always get choice of first turn. 

I'd say the best use of it is in an ambushing/alpha strike force, where those rerolled charges are worth their weight in gold, but a smart opponent will try and keep their artefacts away from the front for the first few turns.

With this in mind I'd aim for a fast force with a decent ambush present, so you'll usually give the opponent first turn and the unenviable choice of castling up and giving you the initiative for the objectives game or charging forward and getting engaged on multiple fronts. Taking heros that get good value out of the extra artefact and command point is key. 

Never going to be most effective, but at least it's one of the cheaper ones

[Saiken]

Thanks a lot for this  @Magnus The Blue !
So in terms of actual units, what would you pick ? Centigors ? Bestigors ?

Edited December 3, 2018 by Saiken

[SwampHeart]

I think @Magnus The Blue has it right - its a cheap battalion that's one drop capable (one of the reasons I love the Tzeentch one so much). As far as useful units specifically - centigors are just ace in general, they're fast, cheap and good at tieing up units/winning fights against other cheap drops. With ambush (which I have a generally negative opinion of) you need something that's threatening or else you're opponent isn't going to bother altering his deployment. Ambushing with Bestigors is probably your best choice, they're still fairly cheap with a smallish footprint but they hit hard. Maybe (depending on your Greatfray) a Beastlord as well, ambushing a Gnarlblade Beastlord is never a bad option. You might even consider cogs in the list or shackles one - the ability to control movement, and open avenues for you to leverage the battalion ability should help get more mileage. 

I've been tinkering with some of the same ideas for all the same reasons - Wrath and Rapture has me excited for the 'Rapture' part! 

[Skoll]

how are you guys dealing with night haunts?