AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Myrdin 313]

8 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Thats a AoS 2.0 game wide thing.

Basically it's a rule to make buffs less no brainers with daisy chaining (often resulting in death star units). Unfortunately it makes new warscrolls feel a tad gimped since they aren't willing to errata everyone to be wholly within. Fluff though has nothing to do with it, everyone abides by it.

Ah, so that what it was.

Yeah its kinda.... well... lame ? Browsing through the Blades of Khorne. I mean there are some sweet juicy bonuses, none of which are wholly within, and most of them usually have big circle of influence. 16/18" 

It really gives of the Berserker feel. Meanwhile bunch of our stuff is short ranged with 12" and wholly within. The problem I see here though is that Beastmen units are much more higher model count on average both per units and per army, then those of BoK. Even bunch of our spells are quite short ranged. 

Yeah and about them not willing to update these via errata....  GW attitude and way of doing things....lets not even go there.

Thanks for the insight. I suppose the best thing to do is try to take advantage of allying with the older battletomes (those few we actually can ally with) who do not yet abide by this.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Myrdin

[ShaneHobbes 39]

1 minute ago, Myrdin said:

Ah, so that what it was.

Yeah its kinda.... well... lame ? Browsing through the Blades of Khorne. I mean there are some sweet juicy bonuses, none of which are wholly within, and most of them usually have big circle of influence. 16/18" 

It really gives of the Berserker feel. Meanwhile bunch of our stuff is short ranged with 12" and wholly within. The problem I see here though is that Beastmen units are much more higher model count on average both per units and per army, then those of BoK. Even bunch of our spells are quite short ranged. 

Yeah and about them not willing to update these via errata....  GW attitude and way of doing things....lets not even go there.

Thanks for the insight. I suppose the best thing to do is try to take advantage of allying with the older battletomes (those few we actually can ally with) who do not yet abide by this.

You can throw in how old armies have bonuses on 6's that can be modified but every new battletome/warscroll say 'unmodified'. Dunno why they don't errata that since that's the way their going now. 

[SwampHeart 726]

1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

I took a look at his Warscroll and I must say, its appealing. Not exactly cheap, but one unit WITHIN 10" (why does all our stuff say WHOLLY WITHIN... I hope either an update or in the far far far away future book update this will be changed, as it makes little sense for Beastmen to be uniformly marching togahter.) 

This is the way of the future - all books going forward will have wholly within for buffs. The design goal appears to be buffs are wholly within, debuffs are just within. 

[kenshin620 959]

26 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

The problem I see here though is that Beastmen units are much more higher model count on average both per units and per army, then those of BoK.

Actually because of WHOLLY Within rule (along with other factors), I'd argue BoC rely more on MSU than BoK.

BoK you'd want 40 man units of Bloodreavers (to soak hits mostly) or 30 man units of Bloodletters. Meanwhile a 30 man Bestigor unit is very unwieldy compared to a 10 man one. Not just the wholly within buff problem, but also the range problem (maximizing your attacks against the enemy), the movement problem (harder to maneuver a huge unit vs a small one, especially if theres terrain), the ambush problem (making sure everyone isn't within 9" of an enemy model), and the battleshock problem.

So a 30 man unit may gain the Horde Discount but 3 10 man units are far more flexible.

 

[amysrevenge 2,137]

1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

Yeah the Chaos Sorcerer is an interesting choice. Depending on what you build he might have a place in the army somewhere.

... Plus I think he can Summon a Demon Prince (written on the DP Warscroll ) on something like 9+

Not anymore bud.  That's on outdated DP scroll.

[SwampHeart 726]

39 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

You can throw in how old armies have bonuses on 6's that can be modified but every new battletome/warscroll say 'unmodified'. Dunno why they don't errata that since that's the way their going now. 

Depending on your local play styles this can be a buff. There are enough -1s to hit where I play that I prefer the unmodified 6 since it can't be turned off. 

[Tasman 216]

1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

... Plus I think he can Summon a Demon Prince (written on the DP Warscroll ) on something like 9+

Not any more. 

[Dracothjay 192]

So next year a plan on getting my last butt to tourneys. I understand that this build is by no means competitive, but I’m throwing it out for feedback. I’ve included the models I love and also a bit of synergy how I like to play my beasts.  Pick me to bits guys!

3 things:

my 3x10 unit’s of bestigor. I prefer running them as MSU, but would anyone rather a 30 man unit? With this build they can either be my ambushers instead of bullgors, or objective grabbers.

wild rampage - I like this spell on my second shaman, but would any other spell benefit this build more?

ghorgon - I love him and included him as a distraction to my opponent. A big model people tend to focus on. Also he looks badass! I understand he’s an investment in points, but for 200 points what else is there to include? Maybe bulk my 3 bullgor unit to 6 and gain an extra CP if I removed the ghorgon? I’d prefer to keep him in, but interested in your thoughts.

[Dracothjay 192]

Double post! Apologies!!!

[Tasman 216]

1 hour ago, kenshin620 said:

(why does all our stuff say WHOLLY WITHIN... I hope either an update or in the far far far away future book update this will be changed, as it makes little sense for Beastmen to be uniformly marching togahte

Lol.... ever see a herd of cows, or buffalo. They kinda tend to stick together.....?

[SwampHeart 726]

6 minutes ago, Dracothjay said:

*Snip*

So I don't have as much experience with Brass Despoilers but a few things I could maybe suggest or at least present a different point of view. 
 

Why bullgors in 6s? They're a large unit already and one of their main advantages over Bestigors (and they don't have many) is they have a smaller foot print which allows them to retreat into smaller spaces or snake through to specific targets. I feel like at 6 they're so large that you'll be losing attacks most of the time and you're possibly making yourself vulnerable to Battleshock where 3 are effectively immune. 

I prefer my bestigors in 10s - I currently run 2 units of 10, they're an effective MSU choice that hit hard. I think you'll be pleased with them in this size. Additionally the Ghorgon is fine but given that you're already outside the realm of the 1 drop army I'd consider the Chimera over it. The chimera's breath weapon is very potent and allows you an option to burn down troublesome characters early. Plus he doesn't actually lose attacks or get worse from a hit/wound perspective on his chart. 

 

[Myrdin 313]

I downloaded the Warscrolll for DP from GW store. If thats supposed to be outdated, where can I find the new one ?

[Tasman 216]

1 minute ago, Myrdin said:

I downloaded the Warscrolll for DP from GW store. If thats supposed to be outdated, where can I find the new one ?

Download the FAQs

[SwampHeart 726]

4 minutes ago, Tasman said:

Download the FAQs

Or use the AoS app, its generally pretty up to date. 

[Myrdin 313]

30 minutes ago, Tasman said:

Download the FAQs

Right, so the only thing I found was the Errata, that states the spell has been removed and "

Daemon Prince, keywords Add the

Slaves to Darkness

keyword to each set of

Daemon Prince keywords.

"

Is that all the changes for him, or has there been any stat/weapon/abilities change thats not on the Errata as well ?

Edited October 19, 2018 by Myrdin

[decker_cky 228]

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/age_of_sigmar_grand_alliance_chaos_errata_en.pdf

 

Pages 27 and 187 – Daemon Prince, Summon Daemon Prince Remove this spell.

[Kevlar1972 34]

3 hours ago, Myrdin said:

I downloaded the Warscrolll for DP from GW store. If thats supposed to be outdated, where can I find the new one ?

All of the summoning spells were removed.  The god factions have summoning built into allegiance traits.  Nurgle khorne slaanesh and Tzeentch all have their own summoning mechanics.  

[peasant 336]

hi! do you think we can build centigors with warhound bodies? Im afraid they wouldnt look big enough

Ive Just bough 5 fenrisian wolves that look bigger 

Edited October 20, 2018 by peasant

[Tasman 216]

20 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

Or use the AoS app, its generally pretty up to date. 

Lmao. ^^ what he said^^

[Kramer 5,443]

23 hours ago, Tasman said:

Lol.... ever see a herd of cows, or buffalo. They kinda tend to stick together.....?

Lol.... ever read the Gotrek & Felix novels? They make it a point to describe them as running in loose formations and in Kinslayer (currently reading it) they make a big point about the gors and bestigors not really being able to fight without enough space between them unlike the free guild that oppose them in a narrow street. 

[kenshin620 959]

Anyone got any experience with the Endless Spells? Haven't seen much talk about those.

[SwampHeart 726]

10 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Anyone got any experience with the Endless Spells? Haven't seen much talk about those.

I've used Palisades and Geminids pretty frequently but haven't tried our book specific spells. 

[Myrdin 313]

10 hours ago, peasant said:

hi! do you think we can build centigors with warhound bodies? Im afraid they wouldnt look big enough

Ive Just bough 5 fenrisian wolves that look bigger 

 

Interesting conversion.  *thumbsup
 

I did mine using Chaos Marauders horses, they are big and burly and make for great Centigor torsos.
They are not finished by any stretch of imagination, but I´ll try to take a picture of mine to showcase.

The marauder horses are great for this, but be carefull when handling them. Since they are "Chaos" they are of course "Spiky". Managed to puncture my finger on one of those spikes. Recommend cutting and filing them off before proceeding with converting the upper torse.

[peasant 336]

35 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

 

Interesting conversion.  *thumbsup
 

I did mine using Chaos Marauders horses, they are big and burly and make for great Centigor torsos.
They are not finished by any stretch of imagination, but I´ll try to take a picture of mine to showcase.

The marauder horses are great for this, but be carefull when handling them. Since they are "Chaos" they are of course "Spiky". Managed to puncture my finger on one of those spikes. Recommend cutting and filing them off before proceeding with converting the upper torse.

Im waiting for those pictures! maybe o can get some horsemen marauders

[The_Yellow_Sign 230]

On 10/20/2018 at 3:39 AM, Dracothjay said:

So next year a plan on getting my last butt to tourneys. I understand that this build is by no means competitive, but I’m throwing it out for feedback. I’ve included the models I love and also a bit of synergy how I like to play my beasts.  Pick me to bits guys!

3 things:

my 3x10 unit’s of bestigor. I prefer running them as MSU, but would anyone rather a 30 man unit? With this build they can either be my ambushers instead of bullgors, or objective grabbers.

wild rampage - I like this spell on my second shaman, but would any other spell benefit this build more?

ghorgon - I love him and included him as a distraction to my opponent. A big model people tend to focus on. Also he looks badass! I understand he’s an investment in points, but for 200 points what else is there to include? Maybe bulk my 3 bullgor unit to 6 and gain an extra CP if I removed the ghorgon? I’d prefer to keep him in, but interested in your thoughts.

If you're planning on getting into melee from Ambush, I think you should swap one of your Bray Shamans for a Tzaangor Shaman, since that will give you a much better chance of getting Cogs off.