AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Popisdead]

On 10/12/2018 at 6:52 PM, decker_cky said:

Some things to consider with taking beasts of chaos in marked armies through the marked battalions:

• Bestigors, Bullgors and Dragon Ogors are only conditionally battleline in beasts of chaos armies - sorry, no pure bullgor khorne armies. 
• Stand-out khorne buffs that will apply to beasts of chaos units: bloodsecrators and bloodstoker.

Hmmm I thought they were BL based on the general.  Thanks for the catch.

Wrathmongers also.  Bloodsecrator + Wrathmongers aren't hard to get onto Bullgors (and in Khorne re-rolling 1s to hit on that many attacks helps more) and can be a good second line charge after your glass cannon goes poof.

On 10/14/2018 at 4:59 PM, Agent of Chaos said:

I've tooled around with Brass Despoilers in a Khorne list combined with Gore Pilgrims. The idea is for the slaughterpriests to reliably give +2 to hit to a Bullgor unit while the Doombull gives them +1 to wound and the Stoker whips them/Bloodsecrator buffs them. If the prayers are successful then the Great Axes have 3 attacks each (4 for the leader), hit on 2 (rerolls 1's from the battalion), wound on 2 (rerolls 1's from the Stoker),  and thanks to the Stoker and his artifacts the unit has +5" to charge and a free charge reroll if within 8" of him. And then you've got the horns with all the buffs as well. Send the unit in, then repeat the dose on the second Bullgor unit the following turn.

The Bestigor's role is to follow up as the 2nd/3rd wave while the big unit of reavers act as the screen. The small unit of reavers get sacrificed and the warriors camp on an objective and/or defend the priests and bloodsecrator.  Due to the buffs its very tempting to run the Bullgors as a single unit of 6 and you could easily make a late switch based on your opponent/the terrain etc (by simply splitting the Bestigors into 2 units of 10 it doesn't mess with the battalion's minimum requirements).

With two battalions I can choose  3 artifacts but I couldn't find another Khorne one worth taking so went with Gyrstrike on the Doombull which I think he will enjoy. 

Allegiance: Khorne
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Bloodsecrator (140)
- Artefact: The Brazen Rune 
Bloodstoker (80)
- General
- Trait: Violent Urgency 
- Artefact: Talisman of Burning Blood 
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Blood Sacrifice
Doombull (120)
- Artefact: Ghyrstrike 

Battleline
10 x Blood Warriors (200)
- Goreaxes
- 1x Goreglaives
10 x Bloodreavers (70)
- Reaver Blades
20 x Bloodreavers (140)
- Reaver Blades

Units
6 x Bullgors (320)
- Great Axes
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Bestigors (120)

Battalions
Gore Pilgrims (200)
Brass Despoilers (190)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2

I like this but I would pump more units into it from Brass Despoilers than Gore pilgrims as the benefits of boosting Bullgors or Bestigors is a greater payoff than bossing Bloodreavers.  6-man Bullgors... your enemy has to be really spread out for that to be more than 12 extra wounds.  But I'm arguing your details,.. (also I play Open Play cards, not scenarios). Clearly we're both on the same direction

[Agent of Chaos]

Remember the battleline requirement is 3 units and I have to include a unit each of blood warriors and reavers for gore pilgrims. I could drop a unit of reavers for some Gors who would be part of the Brass Despoilers and still count as battleline but Gors are just so meh... also at 80 points for 10 they throw my list out. 

Totally agree on the bullgors. However you can easily split the unit into 2 x 3 and still meet the criteria of the battalion so that is a call you can make once you know your opponent/the deployment scenario. 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Agent of Chaos

[The_Yellow_Sign]

How do Slaughterpriests give the Bullgors +2 to hit? I looked at the Warscroll, but I don't see any abilities that give bonuses to hit: 

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-slaughterpriest-en.pdf

[kenshin620]

12 minutes ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

How do Slaughterpriests give the Bullgors +2 to hit? I looked at the Warscroll, but I don't see any abilities that give bonuses to hit:

Killing Frenzy prayer gives +1 to hit.

[Agent of Chaos]

The Khorne battletome has 6 additional prayers from which slaughterpriests can choose one to use in the battle, in addition to the two basic prayers they start with. These prayers are not spells and so are not affected by any rule of one and can stack (khorne players do expect this to be nerfed one day but nothing so far). As @kenshin620 said, there is a prayer called Killing Frenzy which on 4+ gives +1 to hit. A couple of those on the Bullgors and hey presto they hit on 2's!

[JohnnyH5]

Just wanted to add what I'm currently putting together as my army, I'm sticking with Beasts of Chaos only, with a couple of horde units and some big boys, haven't chosen what artefacts to give my General and Heroes yet.

Comments and constructive criticisms are welcome...

 

GREATFRAY

Darkwalkers

LEADERS
Doombull
- General
Great Bray Shaman
Great Bray Shaman

UNITS
6 x Bullgors
-Great Axes
6 x Bullgors
-Great Axes
20 x Bestigors
1 x Tuskgor Chariots
10 x Ungors
-Shortspears & Half-Shields (used as sacrifice on the Herdstone)
20 x Ungor Raiders
20 x Ungor Raiders

BEHEMOTHS
Ghorgon

BATTALIONS
Desolating Beastherd

 

[ShaneHobbes]

Hey everyone,

Friend of mine wants to sell me his 20 unit of tzaangors  for $30 and I've been wanting some.  Only thing is that save for the great weapons they all have shields and I'd like the majority with dual blades. Anyone know how easy it would be to convert them from shields to dual blades? I'd have the original bits for it. 

[Pangu]

13 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

Hey everyone,

Friend of mine wants to sell me his 20 unit of tzaangors  for $30 and I've been wanting some.  Only thing is that save for the great weapons they all have shields and I'd like the majority with dual blades. Anyone know how easy it would be to convert them from shields to dual blades? I'd have the original bits for it. 

It depends if they used plastic cement or superglue. If they used superglue it should be pretty easy to rip the arms off. If they used cement it will be a bit more difficult. You would need a sharp hobby knife to work into the join a bit, then rip the arms off, then file down whatever plastic is still in place. Its tedious but doable. (I just rearmed 30 gors and 20 ungors which where glued with plastic cement)

Edited October 18, 2018 by Pangu

[ShaneHobbes]

3 minutes ago, Pangu said:

It depends if they used plastic cement or superglue. If they used superglue it should be pretty easy to rip the arms off. If they used cement it will be a bit more difficult. You would need a sharp hobby knife to work into the join a bit, then rip the arms off, then file down whatever plastic is still in place. Its tedious but doable. (I just rearmed 30 gors and 20 ungors which where glued with plastic cement)

Okay thanks, pretty sure they used super glue. I'll make it a new project

[Myrdin]

Ok so a little recalculation on my part that hit me after a moment.

Bloodstroker/secrator are not compatible with Tzaangors....Shocking I know !  I must have had a brainfart not noticing that haha~

 And since Wargor BSB isnt legal, the infantry Tzaangors remain unbuffable via heroes (other than Tzaan shaman) and as such still way to overpriced for what they do (this is just my point of view, dont get angry).

This is a stretch, but maybe, just maybe, running 20 of them with the great blades, with a chaos spawn in Gavespawn fray and a Shaman, they Might be good with 3 attacks each 4+/3+/-1/2..... but they cant ambush with the spawn, so they would have to foot slog on the table, and that would require the other shaman to buff that movement. Ugh... (srsly what cant razorgors and spawn ambush....not even in Darkwalkers, is beyond me.)

But at that points cost, you need to consider that there are other more points efficient options that are just as durable and pack the same punch (Bullgors, Enlightened come to mind. Bestigors pack the punch but are more squishy)

I`ll try this again: Thoughts on Cockatrice and Preyton ?

I just got my first angry chicken yesterday, and also dug up two pretyons that were sitting waiting un-assembled for a very long long time at the bottom of my supplies box   
I`d like to give them a spin, but would like to hear what others think about them.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Myrdin

[Beltrajor]

Gravespawn tzaangors buffed by spawn + beastlord Command can get pretty killy as they get two attack profiles. With rerolls to wound/hit on that Many attacks, you've gotta kill something.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Beltrajor

[The_Yellow_Sign]

Tzaangors are also pretty efficient in terms of points/wound. 180 points gets you 20 wounds.

 

[SwampHeart]

I've been playing with Tzaangors, a lot, lately. Running 1 unit of 20 with 2 shields and they're a workhorse - I do run a Tzaangor shaman as well (our only option for a flying hero who is also a wizard, so something I'd take regardless). With 34 dual blade attacks (counting mutants), 16 great blade, and another 2 single blade attacks (+20 beaks) they've got great offensive out put and at the cost 360 points I get 40 wounds. I've played games without them but after my recent string of games they and Enlightened on foot are a must take for me.  As for their spawn pal, I just summon him in first turn (makes it far easier to make sure he keeps up).

*I'd also like to note I've entirely stopped game planning around ambush - with Total Commitment out there I refuse to invest anything at all in to the concept. Even in games where its an option I don't do it because with the ability to run and charge on my largely M6 + 3 for a Bray Shaman I've got all the mobility I need.

Edited October 18, 2018 by SwampHeart

[Dracothjay]

So next year a plan on getting my last butt to tourneys. I understand that this build is by no means competitive, but I’m throwing it out for feedback. I’ve included the models I love and also a bit of synergy how I like to play my beasts.  Pick me to bits guys!

3 things:

my 3x10 unit’s of bestigor. I prefer running them as MSU, but would anyone rather a 30 man unit? With this build they can either be my ambushers instead of bullgors, or objective grabbers.

wild rampage - I like this spell on my second shaman, but would any other spell benefit this build more?

ghorgon - I love him and included him as a distraction to my opponent. A big model people tend to focus on. Also he looks badass! I understand he’s an investment in points, but for 200 points what else is there to include? Maybe bulk my 3 bullgor unit to 6 and gain an extra CP if I removed the ghorgon? I’d prefer to keep him in, but interested in your thoughts.

[ArtyomTrityak]

I'm reading Battletome and can not understand. What is the point in Phantasmagoria of Fate? 200pts for what?

[kenshin620]

13 minutes ago, ArtyomTrityak said:

I'm reading Battletome and can not understand. What is the point in Phantasmagoria of Fate? 200pts for what?

All units get to unbind (at really close range) and gain the tzeentch keyword. Plus its the only battalion if you running BoC that tzaangors are in if you want to run a battalion and also have a lot of tzaangors within BoC allegiance.

 

Or do you mean the practical application?

[SwampHeart]

1 hour ago, ArtyomTrityak said:

I'm reading Battletome and can not understand. What is the point in Phantasmagoria of Fate? 200pts for what?

-1 Extra Artifact
-1 Extra Command Point
-1 Drop Army (has the widest variety of available units)
-Can contain all forms of Tzaangors in the list (only battalion with access to them)

[Kevlar1972]

18 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Ok so a little recalculation on my part that hit me after a moment.

Bloodstroker/secrator are not compatible with Tzaangors....Shocking I know !  I must have had a brainfart not noticing that haha~

 And since Wargor BSB isnt legal, the infantry Tzaangors remain unbuffable via heroes (other than Tzaan shaman) and as such still way to overpriced for what they do (this is just my point of view, dont get angry).

What about an allied chaos sorcerer lord?  Daemonic power is a pretty good buff.  Would work well on a big unit of tzaangor.  

[ShaneHobbes]

1 minute ago, Kevlar1972 said:

What about an allied chaos sorcerer lord?  Daemonic power is a pretty good buff.  Would work well on a big unit of tzaangor.  

Could also give them a free mystic shield and an additional wizard for their totem. Pretty savage unit there

[Kevlar1972]

1 minute ago, ShaneHobbes said:

Could also give them a free mystic shield and an additional wizard for their totem. Pretty savage unit there

Well daemonic power includes a free mystic shield, so he could buff a different unit with oracular visions.  So a different unit could get the free no cast auto mystic shield.  And yes, he is another wizard to trigger the icon!

[ShaneHobbes]

Oooh forgot about that lol So could have 3 'mystic shields' on at a time. 4 with the combat only Talisman of the Watcher artifact from Ulgu though just for lols there. I might have to invest in 60 tzaangors at some point. 30 for sure. Run them with a great shaman, tzaangor shaman, chaos lord and maybe a shaggoth

[Myrdin]

Wait... I thought only enemy Wizards trigger the Tzaan Icon ? Interesting.

Which Chaos Sorceror are we talking about ? The Vanilla Slaves of Darkness one ? And what does mystic shield do ? Never seen one of these guys (though I suppose once SoD get a new battle tome some of the guys who run old Warriors of Chaos Armies might start playing again.)

[Kevlar1972]

1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

Wait... I thought only enemy Wizards trigger the Tzaan Icon ? Interesting.

Which Chaos Sorceror are we talking about ? The Vanilla Slaves of Darkness one ? And what does mystic shield do ? Never seen one of these guys (though I suppose once SoD get a new battle tome some of the guys who run old Warriors of Chaos Armies might start playing again.)

Slaves to Darkness chaos sorcerer lord.  The one on foot has a buff spell, daemonic power that allows re-rolls of 1 to hit, wound, and save.  He also has an ability to give a unit re-rolls of 1 to save that isn't a spell or a command ability, it just goes off.  There is another chaos sorcerer lord on a manticore, but he has an attack spell instead of a buff spell.

 

 

[Myrdin]

4 hours ago, Kevlar1972 said:

Slaves to Darkness chaos sorcerer lord.  The one on foot has a buff spell, daemonic power that allows re-rolls of 1 to hit, wound, and save.  He also has an ability to give a unit re-rolls of 1 to save that isn't a spell or a command ability, it just goes off.  There is another chaos sorcerer lord on a manticore, but he has an attack spell instead of a buff spell.

 

I took a look at his Warscroll and I must say, its appealing. Not exactly cheap, but one unit WITHIN 10" (why does all our stuff say WHOLLY WITHIN... I hope either an update or in the far far far away future book update this will be changed, as it makes little sense for Beastmen to be uniformly marching togahter.)  can:

-One unit can reroll saves of 1

-One unit within 18", on the cast of 5+ can reroll 1s for Hit, Wound and Saves .... amazing spell for a 5+ cast really.

 

And you can mount him free of Charge on a horse..... (I smell an opportunity for Centigor Shaman conversion here  ) so that he can keep up since he is slower and doesnt benefit from our Bray Shaman movement buff.

160 pts is pretty steep though.  On the other hand, the buff does not require you to be of specific Chaos God Mark, unlike Bloodsecrator/stroker do.

Yeah the Chaos Sorcerer is an interesting choice. Depending on what you build he might have a place in the army somewhere.

... Plus I think he can Summon a Demon Prince (written on the DP Warscroll ) on something like 9+

Edited October 19, 2018 by Myrdin

[kenshin620]

49 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

(why does all our stuff say WHOLLY WITHIN... I hope either an update or in the far far far away future book update this will be changed, as it makes little sense for Beastmen to be uniformly marching togahter.

 

Thats a AoS 2.0 game wide thing.

Basically it's a rule to make buffs less no brainers with daisy chaining (often resulting in death star units). Unfortunately it makes new warscrolls feel a tad gimped since they aren't willing to errata everyone to be wholly within. Fluff though has nothing to do with it, everyone abides by it.