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AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion


Gaz Taylor
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Can someone explain this to me? I read this as the answer is just confirming the question but starts with no. What is the difference here?

 

Q: Does the note in the Pitched Battle profile for Tzaangors in the Beasts of Chaos battletome mean that they can only ever be Battleline if they are included in a Beasts of Chaos army with a Tzaangor Shaman as their general? A: No. Tzaangors are only not Battleline units when they are taken as part of a Beasts of Chaos army that does not have a Tzaangor Shaman as its general.

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1 minute ago, Future said:

Can someone explain this to me? I read this as the answer is just confirming the question but starts with no. What is the difference here?

 

Q: Does the note in the Pitched Battle profile for Tzaangors in the Beasts of Chaos battletome mean that they can only ever be Battleline if they are included in a Beasts of Chaos army with a Tzaangor Shaman as their general? A: No. Tzaangors are only not Battleline units when they are taken as part of a Beasts of Chaos army that does not have a Tzaangor Shaman as its general.

Means they are always battle line in GA chaos or Disciples of Tzeentch,  or where ever else you can field them.  But only battle line in beasts of chaos with the shaman general.  I think.

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1 hour ago, Kevlar1972 said:

Means they are always battle line in GA chaos or Disciples of Tzeentch,  or where ever else you can field them.  But only battle line in beasts of chaos with the shaman general.  I think.

Correct. If you look at the Tzeentch entry in GHB2018, they're  battleline. In the beasts of chaos book, they're battleline in beasts of chaos armies if a tzaangor shaman is general.  The FAQ just means that the beasts of chaos book didn't remove them from battleline in non-beasts of chaos armies (GA chaos or tzeentch allegiance).

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47 minutes ago, Arkiham said:

the main thing i garnered from the faq was games workshop ( or the testers) really really  didnt want the everchosen battalions to be a thing, by forcing you to take them as everchosen 

  

I think GW just wants battalions to stay in their lanes - it applies to lots more than everchosen (nighthaunt in legion of nagash, for example). 

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1 hour ago, decker_cky said:

I think GW just wants battalions to stay in their lanes - it applies to lots more than everchosen (nighthaunt in legion of nagash, for example). 

Yea this.

Everchosen, Nighthaunt, Slaves to Darkness, and Clan Pestilens (did I miss one?)  is what the intent on the original wording for cross faction battalions.

It's just that Everchosen is the most obvious since people really like those battalions. And also that LoN has some of the worst battalions ever.....

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40 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Yea this.

Everchosen, Nighthaunt, Slaves to Darkness, and Clan Pestilens (did I miss one?)  is what the intent on the original wording for cross faction battalions.

It's just that Everchosen is the most obvious since people really like those battalions. And also that LoN has some of the worst battalions ever.....

Everchosen battalions were just badly underpriced  for their effects and flexibility in previous GHBs, which meant they were popular. They could have been balanced by cranking plaguetouched and fatesworn up to ~250 pts (the khorne and slaanesh ones were not issues).  

Beasts of chaos battalions are very flexible, but their effects tend to be marginal compared to other battalions.

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Some things to consider with taking beasts of chaos in marked armies through the marked battalions:

  • Bestigors, Bullgors and Dragon Ogors are only conditionally battleline in beasts of chaos armies - sorry, no pure bullgor khorne armies. 
  • Tzaangors are always battleline except in beasts of chaos armies with non-tzaangor shaman generals (ie, they are battleline in tzeentch armies)
  • Non-tzaangor shaman beasts of chaos characters in tzeentch armies cannot take magic items, command abilities, or tzeentch spells in tzeentch armies. 
  • Beasts of chaos characters in nurgle armies cannot take magic items, command abilities, or nurgle spells, except for foul regenesis. Foul regeneris is a big boon to taking multiple bray shamans in a nurgle army. 
  • Beasts of chaos characters in khorne armies cannot take magic items or command abilities.
  • There are almost no tzeentch buffs that will apply to beasts of chaos units in a tzeentch army, except for the allegiance ability and blue scribes. 
  • Stand-out khorne buffs that will apply to beasts of chaos units: bloodsecrators and bloodstoker.
  • Stand-out nurgle buffs that will apply to beasts of chaos units: Great unclean ones and glottkin. 
  • The wheel + great bray shaman + great bray shaman allow for some absurd speed in nurgle armies. 
  • Remember that marked armies can still take beasts of chaos endless spells and your beasts of chaos characters can still cast them.
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3 hours ago, decker_cky said:

Some things to consider with taking beasts of chaos in marked armies through the marked battalions:

  • Bestigors, Bullgors and Dragon Ogors are only conditionally battleline in beasts of chaos armies - sorry, no pure bullgor khorne armies. 
  • Tzaangors are always battleline except in beasts of chaos armies with non-tzaangor shaman generals (ie, they are battleline in tzeentch armies)
  • Non-tzaangor shaman beasts of chaos characters in tzeentch armies cannot take magic items, command abilities, or tzeentch spells in tzeentch armies. 
  • Beasts of chaos characters in nurgle armies cannot take magic items, command abilities, or nurgle spells, except for foul regenesis. Foul regeneris is a big boon to taking multiple bray shamans in a nurgle army. 
  • Beasts of chaos characters in khorne armies cannot take magic items or command abilities.
  • There are almost no tzeentch buffs that will apply to beasts of chaos units in a tzeentch army, except for the allegiance ability and blue scribes. 
  • Stand-out khorne buffs that will apply to beasts of chaos units: bloodsecrators and bloodstoker.
  • Stand-out nurgle buffs that will apply to beasts of chaos units: Great unclean ones and glottkin. 
  • The wheel + great bray shaman + great bray shaman allow for some absurd speed in nurgle armies. 
  • Remember that marked armies can still take beasts of chaos endless spells and your beasts of chaos characters can still cast them.

Kinda confused why giving them marks at all is even an option if they cant really use much of anything. Khorne is probably the easiest to merge and has the best benefits. 

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40 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Kinda confused why giving them marks at all is even an option if they cant really use much of anything. Khorne is probably the easiest to merge and has the best benefits. 

Well you can still run them under the beasts of chaos allegiance.  Giving them the mark of nurgle would make them immune to a lot of nurgle attacks and give them bonuses or free healing when fighting vs a maggotkin army! 

Edited by Kevlar1972
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I think Nurgle is the standout in terms of overall kit for a non-BoC army:

  • Tzeentch has a huge asynergy, in that the battalion benefit is less useful in the tzeentch army that gets its summoning bonus from casting a ton
  • While it has the best battalion benefit and some great support in the khorne army, the only battleline in the khorne battalion is gors, meaning you likely deal with at least some of your battleline outside the battalion.
  • Nurgle has solid consistent summoning, good character selection, a great spell that all nurgle wizards gain, gors and ungors as battleline, bestigors and centigors with their innate +1 to hit are great targets for blades of putrification. The idea of taking 7 individual chariots for mortal wound spam is hilarious. 

Slaanesh I'm leary of opining on, since a new book is expected soon and you never know how things will change. For now, shaggoths are great sources of depravity points, and its neat that you can take centigors or chariots as the tax units. Daemonettes are so good right now and battleline, so it's tough to imagine taking beast units over them in a competitive sense (aside from maybe a screen of 40 ungors). 

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On 9/25/2018 at 12:50 AM, kenshin620 said:

normal 

GUO + gnarlmaw + nurgle wheel make for a big speed boost to warherd units.

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6 hours ago, decker_cky said:

Bestigors, Bullgors and Dragon Ogors are only conditionally battleline in beasts of chaos armies - sorry, no pure bullgor khorne armies. 

Looking at the Core Book:

Quote

When you choose your army, you can also choose an allegiance for it. If you do so, you can use the allegiance abilities that correspond to the allegiance you have chosen.
If an army can have more than one allegiance, you must pick one toapply to it during the game.

and

Quote

Many units also owe allegiance to a faction that is part of one of the Grand Alliances. For example, Stormcast Eternals are a faction of the Order Grand Alliance. An army can have allegiance to a faction instead of a Grand Alliance if all the units in the army have the keyword for that faction, including
any units that you assign a keyword to during set-up. For example, if all of the units in an army have the STORMCAST ETERNAL keyword, then the army can have allegiance to the Stormcast Eternals faction, and would be referred to as a Stormcast Eternal army.

So, you chose Beasts of Caos Allegiance unlocking "Battle line if..." Bullgors and build a lists with them (with the battallion that give Khorne marks). After that, you can chose three Allegiance Abilies: GA Caos, Beasts of Caos and Khorne. Taking Khorne abilities doesn't invalidate your list with your battleline bullgors.

Is that right or I misread something?

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23 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Looking at the Core Book:

and

So, you chose Beasts of Caos Allegiance unlocking "Battle line if..." Bullgors and build a lists with them (with the battallion that give Khorne marks). After that, you can chose three Allegiance Abilies: GA Caos, Beasts of Caos and Khorne. Taking Khorne abilities doesn't invalidate your list with your battleline bullgors.

Is that right or I misread something?

Yes, the second quote is only about the link between Grand Alliances and smaller factions within them.

Army building or more specific choosing you faction is not a two step thing anymore, like in the previous edition. Now you choose once and that's it and they've been rather clear about it. Defaulting back to Grand Alliance abilities was killed with AoS 2.0 as well and they even made an FAQ entry to make absolutely sure it is understood (ergo, only factions that have no abilities of their own can be faction-x and still get GA abilities).

Factions and army allegiance in AoS 2.0 has been a hot topic several times on this board alone (with the same results every time) but I guess players are just so used to how it worked beforehand. The funny thing is, the current iteration is a lot clearer and arguably more elegant (no more cherry-picking or abusing battleline-ifs...). 

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@Beliman you only select one Allegiance (either khorne or BoC) and if you pick Khorne, of course you can include Brassbull battalion but even if the Doombull is the general, the Bullgors won t  count as BL as your Allegiance is not BoC and your Doombul won t be able to select traits or artifacts from Khorne. If you pick BoC you can build an army around that battalion but you won t be able to ally any Khorne as the only allies you can select are StD (which you can then mark Khorne maybe but cannot use Khorne traits and artifacts; at this point your Doombull general will allow for Bullgors BL and will be able to select traits and artifacts from BoC. Alternatively you play GA Chaos and mix whichever unit you want and pick from GA Chaos traits and artifacts but no Herdstone allowed or Bloodtithe poiys etc... 

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3 hours ago, Entombet said:

So if i read it right, god battalions can ally their god units and benefit from the buffs?.

You can't ally any god army units into a Beasts of chaos army (unless it's marked slaves to darkness)

So no you can't.

What the FAQ allows is a khorne army to take a brass despoilers battalion without using ally points or breaking allegiance (or god army of your choice)

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17 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

Looks like we can stack it. 

 Still no. Having re-read all of the other FAQs for the other armies, it remains clear. Anyone who would play this any other way is playing for advantage, IMO. I'd never allow it in any tournament that I'm organizing. 

Edited by Tasman
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54 minutes ago, Tasman said:

 Still no. Having re-read all of the other FAQs for the other armies, it remains clear. Anyone who would play this any other way is playing for advantage, IMO. I'd never allow it in any tournament that I'm organizing. 

Why shouldn’t it be stackable.

isnt Gabriel’s commandability also possible to use multiple times on a unit??

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16 hours ago, decker_cky said:

I think GW just wants battalions to stay in their lanes - it applies to lots more than everchosen (nighthaunt in legion of nagash, for example). 

well no as these beast battalions you are allowed to take as god allegiance stuff thus going out of their " lane", with these battalions you can do what you used to do with the everchosen ones, which you can no longer do but you can with these... if they didnt want it why allow it for these but no one else?

wheres the consistency 

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11 minutes ago, Tasman said:

Because of the wording in the ability. 

 

Ok so the wording says to pick a friendly gavespawn unit wholly within 12 of a friendly gavespawn chaos spawn.....

so im not sure in which way your discussion went.

Was it that a person cannot use two command points to give a unit plus 2 to the attack characteristic.

or were you arguing that a unit cannot get two attacks when there are 2spawns near the unit for a commandpoint?

well if it is the second one I fully agree with you.

if it is the first one, I’d probably need an explanation.

 

 

 

Edited by Skreech Verminking
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