AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Lardidar]

4 minutes ago, Amradiel said:

Playing around with a Gavespawn list. Really fell in love with the fluff. Suggestions for improvement would be great. Add a endless spell or not? 

I have not had a deep dive into the book yet but this looks very good. Don't forget you get a 2nd artefact, bulk up the shaggoth maybe.

[Amradiel]

5 minutes ago, Lardidar said:

I have not had a deep dive into the book yet but this looks very good. Don't forget you get a 2nd artefact, bulk up the shaggoth maybe.

Thank you. Yeah I had that in mind but I just don't know what artefact to choose yet

[CDM]

Anyone have any herds to show off? I've never owned a beastman army but they've always had the best over all theme and aesthetic in my eyes! Does anyone wanna share their armies?

[Skreech Verminking]

34 minutes ago, Amradiel said:

Thank you. Yeah I had that in mind but I just don't know what artefact to choose yet

Cogs.

they are incredibly with a boc army.

+2movement means having a shaman near your Un/besti/Gors, a move of 11inches per turn.

since they also can run this would give you the possibility of a 1st turn charge.

or flanking every other fast units.

Edited September 29, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[peasant]

40 minutes ago, CDM said:

Anyone have any herds to show off? I've never owned a beastman army but they've always had the best over all theme and aesthetic in my eyes! Does anyone wanna share their armies?

still painting, so far, the last gor i s finished, my plan is to only spend time in skin. But with tzaangors Im goin to take my time to practice even nmm

 

Edited September 29, 2018 by peasant

[Megaboss Gorstag]

Heres some of my Warherd! 

[scrollbuilderdude]

11 hours ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:

The Warscroll Builder currently handles Tzaangors as being Battleline only in Beasts of Chaos armies when a Tzaangor Shaman is the General and in other Chaos armies they are no Battleline any more.

According to the Beasts of Chaos Battletome that doesn't correspond to the wording used there. It's different to the other "X is Battleline when Y is General" conditions. The role Battleline is printed there. So I read it like Tzaangors are Battleline for all armies they can be used in (like Disciples of Tzeentch or GA Chaos), but for Beasts of Chaos the condition "General is a Tzaangor Shaman" has to be met for them to become Battleline.

The exact wording is: "Battlefield Role: Battleline. Battleline in Beasts of Chaos army only if general is a Tzaangor Shaman"
Others have for example: Battlefield Role: (not mentioned). Battleline in Beasts of Chaos army if general is a Doombull"

Good points, I'll talk to the proper folks and figure out what the answer is.

Edited September 30, 2018 by scrollbuilderdude

[Kramer]

23 hours ago, The Nameless One said:

Isn’t that just the version with the statue in one hand?

Oh wow, is that an actual build? It doenst even feature on the sales page. Understandable I feel as the one open hand does look a bit weird 

[Tasman]

On 9/29/2018 at 2:37 AM, Kramer said:

Haha found it. Almost looks like it broke and the photographer didn’t notice 

Nope, he's holding the statue. I built one of mine that way, too.

[kenshin620]

If theres another thing I would have added to the book, it would be some sort of animosity rule for Thunderscorn vs SCE. Or maybe even additional resistance vs SCE.

A tad unfair SCE gets all the "against daemons/death/chaos, do extra thing" rules.  I mean is it really a good idea to use Azyr Magic to cast a thunder bolt against the Thunderscorn? I know they used to have that rule in WFB, but that was a very niche thing (also weirdly affected skaven even though I wasn't sure if warp thunder is the same as normal lightning!)

Heck Bestigors get a buff against ALL ORDER!

Edited September 30, 2018 by kenshin620

[peasant]

I have a doubt as assembling my tzaangors, what do you prefer shield lr 2 weapons?

[Satyrical Sophist]

9 minutes ago, peasant said:

I have a doubt as assembling my tzaangors, what do you prefer shield lr 2 weapons?

You can use both. Shield wording is that as long as the unit has any with shields, whole unit gets the benefits. So optimial 10 man is.

1 leader with greatblade 

3 regular with greatblade.

2 mutants.

1 banner (with 2 hand weapons)

1 musician (with 2 hand weapons)

1 shield.

1 with 2 hand weapons.

[Pandamina]

55 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

You can use both. Shield wording is that as long as the unit has any with shields, whole unit gets the benefits. So optimial 10 man is.

1 leader with greatblade 

3 regular with greatblade.

2 mutants.

1 banner (with 2 hand weapons)

1 musician (with 2 hand weapons)

1 shield.

1 with 2 hand weapons.

Isn't banner and musician with greatblade better?

[Satyrical Sophist]

1 hour ago, Pandamina said:

Isn't banner and musician with greatblade better?

If you are willing to convert, I guess. I'm not actually sure you can. I think the rule is that standard and musicians are considered to be armed the same way as the rest of the unit, so I'm not sure how that interacts with special weapons. I personally wouldn't.

[Pandamina]

10 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

If you are willing to convert, I guess. I'm not actually sure you can. I think the rule is that standard and musicians are considered to be armed the same way as the rest of the unit, so I'm not sure how that interacts with special weapons. I personally wouldn't.

if the rule is that standard and musicians are considered to be armed the same way as the rest of the unit, why can't i arm them with greatblade? My unit has it and it also has shields. So my guess would be any weapon i have in my unit, unless it was FAQed.

[Swooper]

22 hours ago, CDM said:

Anyone have any herds to show off? I've never owned a beastman army but they've always had the best over all theme and aesthetic in my eyes! Does anyone wanna share their armies?

Link to my army log in my signature, painted models from page 2.

 

Did everyone see that we're getting Made to Order Morghur and Khazrak (but no Redmaw??) next weekend (as well as Throgg and Galrauch)? I'm definitely getting Khazrak and Throgg, maybe Morghur as well.

[Crispen]

Hey guys! 

I thought I would share my thoughts after running beasts of chaos at a 74 player event in Aus where I went 0 and 5 with it.

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos
Greatfray: Dark Walkers
Mortal Realm: Ulgu (Shadow)

Leaders
Crispen the old(180)
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth
 -General
 -Savage encirclement command trait
 -Hailstorm spell

The Pale Bull(120)
Doombull
 -Doppelganger cloak
 -Slaughterer's Axe

Thacnor (100) 
Great Bray Shaman
 -the desolate Shard
 -Tendrils of Atrophy spell

Serpenthide(100)
Great Bray Shaman
 -Vicious Stranglethorns spell

Units
30 x Gors(210)
 - Two Gor-Blades

10 x Gors(80)
 - Two Gor-Blades

10 x Gors(80)
 - Two Gor-Blades

30 x Bestigors(300)

10 x Ungor(60)
 - Mauls & Half-Shields

10 x Ungor Raiders(80)
 - bows

6 Bullgors(320)
 -Great Axes

Behemoths
Ghorgon(200)

Battalions
Desolating Beastherd(150)

Scenary
Herdstone

Total: 1980   Extra Command Points: 1    Wounds: 166

Leaders: 4  Battlelines:3  Behemoths: 1/4  Artillery:0/4  Artefacts:2/2  Allies:0/400
 

 I found stranglethrons was really good thanks to the tournament requiring each player to bring 3 pieces of terrain.

tendrils of atrophy was really hard to get off (never got it off). Its hard to be 12 away in your hero phase I found with the beasts as you can't take a charge, you're too squishy. In one game I was in a  good position, but when my turn rolled around the only model left was the shaman haha. 30 gor and 20 bestigor wiped off in a tomb king charge (settra with red fury, 6 carrion, 6 chariots). I think if you ran like 60 bestigor and 30 tzaangor this spell could be great as you'd have the staying power to form a frontline.

hailstorm is great and I was able to use it to shutdown 40 skeletons in one game and slow 10 black knights in another.

I nuked my doombull and 6 bullgor on the first turn pretty much every game, they did really well. I think the unit could be dropped to three though cause you only get 2-3 in anyway due to the large bases and they only last a turn due to squishyness. the battalion makes these guy pretty reliable.

ghorgon did really well thanks to the new bloodgreed ability and killed 4 morghasts over mine and my opponents turn in one game, 3 bull tauroks in another. I screened him with gor and made use of his 3 inch reach a lot of the time. He's not so good ambushed on.

Summoning on a cockatrice is not worth it haha. I used him in 3 games and in all 3 I summoned him on twice and he just doesn't do anything. I found a razorgor or 10 gor to be better (razorgor was great for tagging big units on the side with the re-roll charges). I summoned on a ghorgon in one game as well and that was pretty good too, though more bodies would have served me better and got me my secondary and 9 tournament pts

Gor are I'm afraid to say not very good. I own 100 of them, but they just bounce off pretty much everything. The extra pile in does mitigate the large bases a little, but its hard to get enough in to do much.

Bestigor are amazing, if you're looking to start a beasts army with no Tzaangor I would suggest running these.

Doppleganger cloak is no good on the doombull as he's not meaningful enough to make proper use for it.

The dark walkers shard is pretty tough to get off

Ungor raiders are very good in the battalion when ambushing into the enemy territory.

Dark walkers command ability is not as good as I thought it would be, but does have some nice synergies with the bray shamans devolve spell. Pull a unit off ab objective and then if they move far enough you can place your own unit down to capture the now vacant objective (happened once haha). The command ability is also good to use to escape.

The summoning is nice and you basically get 140pts extra if you're using 10 ungor for it.

My hardest games were ones with mobile strong characters. I struggled against Arkhan, the vamp lord ignoring rend (amethyst broach?), Settra with amethyst broach and a frost lord on stonehorn with amethyst broach. 

That's my thoughts thus far!

Hopefully you guys find it helpful!

 

Edited October 1, 2018 by Crispen

[Pandamina]

4 hours ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

1 leader with greatblade 

1 banner (with 2 hand weapons)

1 musician (with 2 hand weapons)

 

Just went through the rules and found an interesting moment. Leader, banner and musician are referred as the command models together.  So if you can arm leader with greatblade, you should be able to do this with others.  And on store page tzaangor champion indeed mentioned with greatblade.

[Heroflegend21]

Building the ten ungor from the starter set but plan on using them for summoning which is better the raiders or the regular ungors

[Swooper]

1 hour ago, Heroflegend21 said:

Building the ten ungor from the starter set but plan on using them for summoning which is better the raiders or the regular ungors

Ungors are 20p cheaper, but raiders can at least fire their bows while they're waiting for their turn on the barbecue. Up to you.

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

I dunno, it would seem that summoning hasn’t proven to be worth it by many people’s accounts.

I like ungors in both forms.

Only spear unit we have and can attack in both ranks.

[Urauloth]

I'm guessing there's not a lot of point to ungors with hand weapons when spears have such an obvious benefit? I only really ask because I have 10 or so of them from back in the day. If there's no sense making a whole unit that way, I'll scatter them around in a big spear herd or something.

What's the best size for raiders? Is maxing the unit out the way to go? Seems logical, with the bonus, but does it get unwieldy with that many models? Do they become too much of a risky investment with their poor saves and terrible bravery? Are small units worth it for harrassing and sitting on backline objectives, or are they too easy to destroy?

I'm coming back to beasts after a LONG absence, so I'm just running some real basics past those of you who've been beasting out for a while before I get stuck in.

On that note, while I love everything else about the battletome (it's probably my fav so far) I'm a little sad my beastlord lost his greataxe. He's old enough to be metal, but contempary with the one they're still selling... wonder what happened to that mini?

[kenshin620]

38 minutes ago, Urauloth said:

I'm guessing there's not a lot of point to ungors with hand weapons when spears have such an obvious benefit? I only really ask because I have 10 or so of them from back in the day. If there's no sense making a whole unit that way, I'll scatter them around in a big spear herd or something.

What's the best size for raiders? Is maxing the unit out the way to go? Seems logical, with the bonus, but does it get unwieldy with that many models? Do they become too much of a risky investment with their poor saves and terrible bravery? Are small units worth it for harrassing and sitting on backline objectives, or are they too easy to destroy?

I'm coming back to beasts after a LONG absence, so I'm just running some real basics past those of you who've been beasting out for a while before I get stuck in.

On that note, while I love everything else about the battletome (it's probably my fav so far) I'm a little sad my beastlord lost his greataxe. He's old enough to be metal, but contempary with the one they're still selling... wonder what happened to that mini?

Well spears are usually better, but I think in reality since ungors are your fodder you might just end up doing 1-3 extra wounds over swords/axes.

Legions of Nagash players seem to be coming to the conclusion despite spears being the way to go for their 40 man skeleton hordes that swords aren't that worse.

For raiders I think you usually want big numbers but it all depends on how your opponent reacts and what strategy you want to employ. You could go for a Desolation alpha strike with 80-120 raiders, but if the initial wave of arrows fail then that strategy is going down the toilet fast. Meanwhile 10-20 man units can be a real pain for artillery without draining too many points.

 

For the last bit, I think it's just them streamlining heroes. Unless a hero is multipart, it seems they only want to keep one type of a hero around to not add on too many products on a shelf/warehouse space. Very few new hero types come with multiple weapons, so they figured that they can retire different versions of old heroes. Especially if its a finecast model.

Unless its Khorne. Then they just invent like a dozen different hero types.....

Edited October 1, 2018 by kenshin620

[decker_cky]

What's the obvious benefit to spears? Don't 2 ranks of hand weapons do the same damage as 3 ranks of spears?

Even if spears in 3 ranks were better, I'm not sure why you want 3 ranks of ungors attacking. Ungors are the only 25mm base in the army....the advantage being that they are the only unit in the army that 1" melee range models can attack over.  

[Retro]

20 minutes ago, decker_cky said:

What's the obvious benefit to spears? Don't 2 ranks of hand weapons do the same damage as 3 ranks of spears?

Even if spears in 3 ranks were better, I'm not sure why you want 3 ranks of ungors attacking. Ungors are the only 25mm base in the army....the advantage being that they are the only unit in the army that 1" melee range models can attack over.  

I never stopped to do the math hammer on it before but you are 100% right.

Swords having the benefit of not reducing in effectiveness once you have less than 3 ranks worth of models left to fight.

Edit: A little more maths reveals that the spears will pull slightly ahead if you get a +1 to hit bonus. As far as I know, the only way to get it is the brayherds which means that it is only good for 1 turn IF you ambush and successfully charge. Not worth the hassle in my opinion.

Also, ungor spears might be useful for centigor conversions

Edited October 1, 2018 by Retro
More maths