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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

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10 minutes ago, Dmuerto said:

Are they usable in matched games? 

You could probably use some as alternative Great Bray-Shamans or Beastlords, but as characters from WFB they will have no points and will be usable only in Open and Narrative play.

Edited by michu
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I was expecting that to happen - likely advertise them as great models to use for various Greatfrays. 

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I would be over the moon if that happens this week- at the very, very least I'd be picking up Morghur to use as a Gavespawn Bray-Shaman and the alternate Beastlord with the overhead axe (which is such an iconic model it's the basis for some prominently featured art in the new Battletome).

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The more I look at the desolation beastherd, the more I think it is actually best with Ungor Raider spam. Even if you run Darkwalkers (thus can have ambushing bullgors).

The Raiders have one big advantage, they can fully take advantage of the desolation double hit effect even if the enemy is not within their own territory. Heck some of them don't even need to ambush, you can use the command ability teleport them from your zone to wherever you want.

Yes ungors are not Deepstriking x4 Ballista+Ordinator or ancentral pickaxe+irondrakes, but the sheer number of ungors you could stuff in the enemy territory with both the numbers to hit reroll and the exploding 6 roll could be a death by 1000 cuts kind of strategy.

Combine that with shaman armor removal and you'll make free guild double tap crossbowmen green with envy!

 

The only downside is that they're still ungors, in close combat they're going to get mowed like grass and are not going to have fun times with their bravery.

Edited by kenshin620
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What is the opinion on Dragon Ogor weapon options? Both warglaives and crushers look good to me and I thought perhaps to mix them. Does anyone think much of the other option?

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37 minutes ago, S133arcanite said:

What do people think of a Doombull with mutating gnarlblade?

A doombull with the killing power of a durthu

I like the extra rend on his attacks, and if you are running Brass Despoilers he could get the buffs to his hit and wounds.

That said, there are a lot of Ethereal Amulets out there, and a Beastlord gets his own built in buffs for his attacks. 

Both I think are usable, but I think it's better placed on a Beastlord to make him go from a so-so character to a real threat. Doombull doesn't really need to weapon to do work.

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Beastlord is much better IMO:

-6 attacks, 3+ to hit (reroll 1's), 3+ to wound (reroll failures against characters)

-reroll 1's to hit protects against the downside

-boosts potential damage from 6 to 18

-advantage of brayherd buffs

 

Doombull 

-3 attacks, 3+ to hit, 3+ to wound  (+1 if he dedicates a command point to himself)

-boosts potential damage from 9 (plus 2 from horns) to 15 (plus 2 from horns)

-advantage of -2 rend rather than -1

-advantage of survivability

 

Given the available armour debuffs, the beastlord's main disadvantage is pretty minor, and for all the flack it takes, once you put it on a dangerous character like a gnarlblade beastlord, the beastlord's command ability is way better than the doombull command ability, which was heavily nerfed. 

Edited by decker_cky
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5 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

The more I look at the desolation beastherd, the more I think it is actually best with Ungor Raider spam. Even if you run Darkwalkers (thus can have ambushing bullgors).

The Raiders have one big advantage, they can fully take advantage of the desolation double hit effect even if the enemy is not within their own territory. Heck some of them don't even need to ambush, you can use the command ability teleport them from your zone to wherever you want.

Yes ungors are not Deepstriking x4 Ballista+Ordinator or ancentral pickaxe+irondrakes, but the sheer number of ungors you could stuff in the enemy territory with both the numbers to hit reroll and the exploding 6 roll could be a death by 1000 cuts kind of strategy.

Combine that with shaman armor removal and you'll make free guild double tap crossbowmen green with envy!

 

The only downside is that they're still ungors, in close combat they're going to get mowed like grass and are not going to have fun times with their bravery.

Raiders are good, and I do enjoy ambushing with them even without Desolating Beastherd. With Desolating Beastherd you get an average of 0.1111... extra wounds (before saves) per raider due to double hits on 6's, which works out to an extra 4.444... wounds per block of 40. That's pretty damn good! They are pretty pricey though, at 320 points for 40 (and I wouldn't run them with less because their effectiveness drops dramatically under 30, especially with Desolating Beastherd). 

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Yea raiders really like to be above 30. Maybe like 2 units with 40 in Desolation would be a good firebase, 3 units may be eating too many points.

If really going in ham, have someone with a brayblast horn! But then you really have to hug the hero.

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So I bought the tome (been waiting for this tome since the second GH dropped), herdstone and 3 start collecting boxes, going into the army completely fresh, Currently built all 3 shamans, 1 Cygor, all 3 Bestigor units and 1 unit on ungors, should I keep to the regular ungors or have a unit of raiders as a sacrifice? and I plan on having at least 1 cygor and ghorgon, but what should i have the 3rd one? also have a Beastlord on the way. 

 Local GW store games are typically 1500 points so currently my list is:

Gravespawn

Heroes:

Beastlord - 90 - General - Mutating gnarlblade

Shaman -100 - spell: savage dominion

Shaman - 100 - spell: Tendrils of atrophy

Shaman -100 - spell: Titanic fury

 

Battleline:

10 Bestigors - 120

10 Bestigors -120

10 Bestigors -120

10 Ungors - 60

10 Ungors - 60

10 Ungors - 60

 

Monsters:

Cygor - 180

Cygor -180

or

Ghorgon - 200

 

Battalion: 

Desolating Beastherd - 150

Total:

1440/ 1500 points

2 extra CPs

I have 2 Chaos Spawn for the Gravespawn ability and will have either a Cygor or a Ghorgon ready for summoning, along with any units that go pop.

I'm looking to add a dragon ogre shaggoth (grave spawn artifact and the CA with the Titanic fury spell and summon lightning spell on top just makes me happy) at some point and a fair few Gors in the future, anything else I could/ should add? 

 

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5 hours ago, Kneeby said:

So I bought the tome (been waiting for this tome since the second GH dropped), herdstone and 3 start collecting boxes, going into the army completely fresh, Currently built all 3 shamans, 1 Cygor, all 3 Bestigor units and 1 unit on ungors, should I keep to the regular ungors or have a unit of raiders as a sacrifice? and I plan on having at least 1 cygor and ghorgon, but what should i have the 3rd one? also have a Beastlord on the way. 

 Local GW store games are typically 1500 points so currently my list is:

Gravespawn

Heroes:

Beastlord - 90 - General - Mutating gnarlblade

Shaman -100 - spell: savage dominion

Shaman - 100 - spell: Tendrils of atrophy

Shaman -100 - spell: Titanic fury

 

Battleline:

10 Bestigors - 120

10 Bestigors -120

10 Bestigors -120

10 Ungors - 60

10 Ungors - 60

10 Ungors - 60

 

Monsters:

Cygor - 180

Cygor -180

or

Ghorgon - 200

 

Battalion: 

Desolating Beastherd - 150

Total:

1440/ 1500 points

2 extra CPs

I have 2 Chaos Spawn for the Gravespawn ability and will have either a Cygor or a Ghorgon ready for summoning, along with any units that go pop.

I'm looking to add a dragon ogre shaggoth (grave spawn artifact and the CA with the Titanic fury spell and summon lightning spell on top just makes me happy) at some point and a fair few Gors in the future, anything else I could/ should add? 

 

If you like Tzaangors in particularly, but don’t want to pay too many points for them I’d recommend you the enlightenment on disc.

they will cost around 140p will move 19inches thanks to a bray shaman, and will destroy any hard hitters in the enemy army. (Especially if you take a Tzaangor shaman with them).

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Thinking of picking up Beasts of Chaos as a 1000pt side army sometime soon and wanted to focus on the beast side of things.

What do you all think of the following list?

Greatfray: Allherd

Leaders

Great Bray Shaman 100pts

 - General (Dominator)

 - Spell: Savage Dominion

 

Beastlord 90pts

 - Blade of the Descrator

 

Battleline

20 Ungors 120pts

 - Blades and Half-Shields

 

30 Gors 210pts

 - Blades and Shields

 

10 Bestigors

 

Units

Cockatrice 100pts

 

Ghorgon 200pts

 

940pts (1 extra command point)

 

The idea is somewhat simple and revolves around having a large core of Goes (the quintessential Beastman models in my mind so I wanna keep them) with a small unit of ambushing Bestigor to take on elite things.

The Beastlord would either run up with the Gors or ambush with the Bestigors and be somewhat flexible with the Allherd artefact letting him take on heroes or add some extra hitting power to the bestigors for larger units.

The Bray Shaman and Ungors would sit back around the Herdstone and in combination with the extra command point and Allherd command ability guarantee a Chimera on turn 3 (1 per turn X 3 + minimum 1 per turn sacrifice X 3 + 4 command point) which would join the battle where needed. I chose Savage Dominion spell for the theme but also for the range letting the Shaman sit back and still contribute.

The Ghorgon and Cockatrice are mostly for theme but I think both act as somewhat scary things with the Cockatrice potentially be a support hero sniper with its mortal wound gaze.

Edited by Yoshiya

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After Learning a lot of things Yesterday About Chaos gargants, Im Thinking That Maybe We Can do The same Thing Everyday Wit Another not Well Know Units, What do You think? Per example Today.

Lets chat About The cockatrice!

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For My is a Great model with Very good stats and Fairly priced,  if You compare It with a beast of nurgle is Better en Every posible Way except duration (Because of Saving and special saves)

I think They are not made to Fight except weak units instead abusing The petrifying gaze.

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Quick question here everyone, how difficult/easy do you all think painting beastmen are? I really like the look of beastmen but I try to stay away from armies that will take a long time to paint like Admech, which was the first 40k models I bought and still have t finished because they’re so detailed. On the other hand my Dispossessed are quite easy to paint with most just being metals and beards.

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Mostly spray brown and drybrush I think. There are two Duncan's tutorials for them (unfortunately Mournfang spray is OOP).

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

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The models aren't hard to paint (not a lot of fiddly details, like Tzeentch models for example), it just depends on how much effort you want to put in. I use 40+ paints on each gor, wet blend and freehand warpaint, but you can definitely use a much simpler method if desired.

 

Edit: Regarding spray paint, Army Painter have a couple of brown primers you could use.

Edited by Swooper

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1 hour ago, Ragnar Alpaca said:

Quick question here everyone, how difficult/easy do you all think painting beastmen are? I really like the look of beastmen but I try to stay away from armies that will take a long time to paint like Admech, which was the first 40k models I bought and still have t finished because they’re so detailed. On the other hand my Dispossessed are quite easy to paint with most just being metals and beards.

I actually enjoy painting Beastmen (particularly the various types of -gor) because they've got good texture that takes to fast techniques well. They've got lots of good crevasses and raised areas so washes and drybrushes are very effective. Their details are largely simple to make look good things like metal, flayed skin, etc. so you can add some nice detail to them without needing to say freehand or do lots of hard line highlights (my least favorite technique to do). I think the big benefit to the range is you can have a nice tabletop army in a fairly quick amount of time that you can then double back on to make look really good on your own time.

Also I thought I'd report on a game I had last night with the new book. 2k - Gift from the Heavens, my opponent was playing a pretty classic Stardrake list while I ran:

-Dragon Ogre Shaggoth - General (Adamantine Scales), Thermal Rider Cloak, Hailstorm
-Great Bray Shaman - The Knowing Eye, Vicious Stranglethorns
-Tzaangor Shaman - Viletide
-30x Ungors - Spear and Shield
-10x Ungor - Club and Shield
-30x Gors - Shield and Blade
-10x Bestigors
-10x Bestigors
-10x Bestigors
-3x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc
-3x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc
-Chimera
-Phantasmagoria of Fate

I was able to win 23 - 5. Having a 2 Drop army helped as did a pretty effective character assassination unit in the Chimera and the Viletide Shaman. I was able to bury my objective in 30 Ungors plus another 10 Bestigors and then take his objective late game with the remenants of my Gors and Enlightened. The Stardrake killed a bunch of stuff as is to be expected but I was able to eat his Relictor on turn 1 and his Castellant was gone by turn 3 which really helped. Overall I was pleased with both the list and how the army functioned, especially with no Greatfray. 

  

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On 9/26/2018 at 5:40 AM, Pangu said:

Gors are a fantastic, people are definately under selling them. They might not be as pushed as Bestigors but they are more than playable. Not every unit in an army needs to be capable of alpha striking hard units off the table turn 1.

At 210 points they are a solid buy and are great for bulking out a horde army. With a 4+ save in combat and 30 wounds they are as good a tarpit as we have access to. They are cheap enough to sacrifice in a pinch. They are flexible on offense and can be commited to combats you dont want to waste your bestigors on, for instance they can be a first wave to engage tarpits or chaff, or they can be a second wave following bestigors to finish off wounded units. Finally, they can be a real threat either by receiving a few buffs or in the late game when support characters have been eliminated or the herdstone is having an impact. 

Its easy to fall into the trap of comparing a units dmg potential and dismissing them but the game is more than just an excercise in math. Anyways, my point is that gors fullfill a flexible range of roles at a good cost to justify their place in competitive lists. 

I think the comparison is not to be dobe with Bestigors but with ungors. Taken in big blocks there is not much of a difference and ungors are 10 pts less (that on a big numbers they stack becoming 20 pts or 30 and that canmake the difference between having a cygor or a ghorgon). 

Gors:

-30 wounds

-4+ save

-2a each (when still above 20 models) 

-32 mm base meaning 1 rank only attacks

-4+ 4+ - 1

-210 pts

Ungors:

-40 wounds

-5+ save

- 1a each (rerolling 1s 2s to hit if more than 30)

-25mm base meaning tgey always push in the second rank for attacks

-4+ 4+ - 1

-200 pts

IMO the comparison is grately in favor of ungors as their disadvantage are made up for from the advantage they have on gors. That said I ll make you guys make your own decision (let me know if I forgot something I ll add it) and of course everyone is entitled of playing what they want. Take your pick

 

Cheers

 

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It's not just a gor thing, its a game wide thing. If you have multiple units that "roughly do the same thing", it comes to no surprise that due to variance in point costs or variance in unit performance that some will be inferior (even slightly) to others.

LoN suffers from this a lot since almost all of their units of melee so theres only so much uniqueness to each unit. Like the big debate (before nighthaunt mind you so now theres an even bigger can of worms) of skeleton warriors vs graveguard. In the opposite case compared to BoC, the elite foot unit doesn't have a significant damage output and is only marginally tougher than the cheaper unit. Thus usually outside of going full on in deathrattle buffs, skeleton warriors would show up far more frequently than graveguard.

This is mainly in reference though to high levels of competitiveness. Usually in low-mid level games the small details might not matter too much.

 

Speaking of gors though, I'm trying to wrap my head around the Marauding Brayherd. It has a surprising amount of tax on it, x3 gors and x4 ungors/raiders/centigors, plus it costs quite a bit in terms of points, all for an ability that only works when you ambush (you might have to combo in either darkwalkers or bestial cunning).

Not saying "oh Desolation Beastherd is so superior!" But Desolation is cheaper for an effect that technically lasts the entire game. Maybe I'm missing something.

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I do agree that gors and ungors fullfill basically the same rolls. If Gors were 200pts id say its a wash between the 2 units as they have the same offensive and defensive potential in the majority of scenarios. However, 10 points is something id gladly pay to have cool models on the table. If those 10 points are preventing you from buying a unit though, then its an easy downgrade to fit in something more important. 

As far as Maruading Brayherd goes, its the only flat out bad battalion in the book. The restrictions in army selection are absurd for such a minor benifit. Even if it just gave you a flat +1 to charge it still might not be worth it.

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Does anybody know if i can do more than one savage blood ritual with my beasts of chaos heroes ? so e.g. 2 GBS each doing the ritual?

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10 minutes ago, the_prophecy said:

Does anybody know if i can do more than one savage blood ritual with my beasts of chaos heroes ? so e.g. 2 GBS each doing the ritual?

I don't believe so, it says may choose one, not choose any. But I do see the flip side. 

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1 hour ago, Pangu said:

 

As far as Maruading Brayherd goes, its the only flat out bad battalion in the book. The restrictions in army selection are absurd for such a minor benifit. Even if it just gave you a flat +1 to charge it still might not be worth it.

Yea seems kind of odd. I think the Gor and Ungor numbers should be combined with a minimum of 3 or 4, and maximum of...well I don't think the max really matters (maybe 10-12 or something). The Charge bonus should be permanent or maybe just bigger for the ambush turn. Slight discount maybe?

Then again I'm not good at battalion creation. I've been home brewing a bunch and they're all weird. I'm trying to make a Chaos Gargant+Beastlord one where the Beastlord can ride the Gargant but man my wording is just as bad as GWs!

 

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