AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

On 9/2/2021 at 8:28 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

I forgot the Jabberslythe existed!  Didn't realize they had changed the warscroll, it used to be like a Belakor substitute to shut thing down randomly.  Adding new species to my zoo is appealing though, I'll look to see what bits I can cobble one together with.  Cockatrice Finecast version is pretty nice as is and not too expensive usually.

It is a nice looking model, yet gw pretty much failed when they rewrote the warscroll.

currently the jabberslythe is a buff piece for your enemy, which you have to pay points for.

[Dolomedes]

I'm not convinced the Jabberslyth is terrible. I'm holding out for the day we can take Bloab Rotspawned in a BoC army. I'd love to run him next to a Jabberslyth with a Dirgehorn. Who cares about the jabber buffing attacks when they're -2 to hit. Bloab's spell got really good in 3.0 with Monstrous Actions. Nice cast debuff stacking potential there too. 

[Maddpainting]

That thing is way to nurgle for me to want it in BoC. 

[Lord Krungharr]

Looks like the Jabby is almost a suicide bomb.  Throw it into a massive unit of something like WitchAelves and they'd mortal wound themselves to death?  Still, looks like not a unit I'll make. 

Cockatrice though, I'm making one!  Got some spare old dragony looking wings that aren't too big.  Maybe I'll get some more Dragon Ogors too.

[Joseph Mackay]

Talk to me about Warherd

ive been enjoying playing Ogors lately, but I would like something more visually appealing that plays a similar way. On paper, Bullgors look like they’d play quite similar to the Ogors and the models are more appealing (except the resin Doombull, I’ve have to convert them out of the Ogriod models instead)

[Maddpainting]

11 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Looks like the Jabby is almost a suicide bomb.  Throw it into a massive unit of something like WitchAelves and they'd mortal wound themselves to death?  Still, looks like not a unit I'll make. 

Cockatrice though, I'm making one!  Got some spare old dragony looking wings that aren't too big.  Maybe I'll get some more Dragon Ogors too.

And Jabby won't get you bonus VP while giving your opponent bonus VP's... so its worst.

[Popisdead]

On 9/4/2021 at 2:52 AM, Dolomedes said:

I'm not convinced the Jabberslyth is terrible.

Who cares about the jabber buffing attacks when they're -2 to hit.

Same.  Or maybe i just keep hoping he isn't. 

Cannot stack to -2 to hit can you?

On 9/4/2021 at 5:34 PM, Joseph Mackay said:

Talk to me about Warherd

Well if you had any synergy or army cohesion throw it out the window and your 4+ to hit will feel like a 6+ when you roll bad. 

I've played Warherd all editions of AoS and only with wound-count were they good.  I mean,.. they weren't terrible just before AoS 2 came out just not great.  

I've been mulling them over more and more cause I miss mine.  To start I feel MW output is the place to go, meaning,. I worry we use dual Hand Axes.  Whilst they used to be rend kings with their great axes, with save-stacking that could get nullified (even with the Herdstone and a couple buff spells).  Also I would focus on making sure when they charge you get MWs off, so any traits or items in the BoC Battletome as well as ensuring you get some with the units (and roar from the ghorgon).  

I have 3 Ghorgons (could proxy a Cygor as a Ghorgon too) and 3 Doombulls, and about 24 Bullgors... I pine for the days of MSU where it worked so maybe starting there?  I dunno,...  I really don't.  I'm good with Sylvaneth and CoS but not BoC these days.  Not at all.  So my thoughts are reflections of facing them or what I've faced with them.

My other armies are Sylvaneth and Wanderers (i.e no ward saves), so how prevalent are Ward Saves in the game?  

[Maddpainting]

You can not stack -2, all final hits/wounds/saves modifiers is max are +/- 1 (other than rend).

Edited September 6, 2021 by Maddpainting

[Lord Krungharr]

On 9/5/2021 at 8:50 PM, Popisdead said:

Same.  Or maybe i just keep hoping he isn't. 

Cannot stack to -2 to hit can you?

Well if you had any synergy or army cohesion throw it out the window and your 4+ to hit will feel like a 6+ when you roll bad. 

I've played Warherd all editions of AoS and only with wound-count were they good.  I mean,.. they weren't terrible just before AoS 2 came out just not great.  

I've been mulling them over more and more cause I miss mine.  To start I feel MW output is the place to go, meaning,. I worry we use dual Hand Axes.  Whilst they used to be rend kings with their great axes, with save-stacking that could get nullified (even with the Herdstone and a couple buff spells).  Also I would focus on making sure when they charge you get MWs off, so any traits or items in the BoC Battletome as well as ensuring you get some with the units (and roar from the ghorgon).  

I have 3 Ghorgons (could proxy a Cygor as a Ghorgon too) and 3 Doombulls, and about 24 Bullgors... I pine for the days of MSU where it worked so maybe starting there?  I dunno,...  I really don't.  I'm good with Sylvaneth and CoS but not BoC these days.  Not at all.  So my thoughts are reflections of facing them or what I've faced with them.

My other armies are Sylvaneth and Wanderers (i.e no ward saves), so how prevalent are Ward Saves in the game?  

Seems like most ward saves are on heroes, or are from hero support spells, abilities, or auras.  Not sure too many warscrolls besides Nurgle Daemons have native ward saves.  But I think some armies have subfactions that have a blanket ward save like that one from Daughters of Khaine maybe, Hag Nar or something?

Rend -2 and -3 is certainly handy to have, and will be more so when Stormcast comes out (I predict all Paladin units will be at least 3+ armor with Annhilators being 2+...aside from all their save buff stuff too).  So a small unit of great axe Bullgors charging and then striking will be very good.  Just getting into combat is the usual problem.  Doombull w Rampant Juggernaut helps.  Ambushing units to get into combat with the pesky backline enemy shooters will prevent them from shooting afar for a turn or 2.

I'll repeat til I'm muted, take a couple allied Mindstealer Cats, and/or the Wildfire Taurus spell.  Then multiple Bullgor units can do their charges and strike before being struck back.  Assuming they can actually hit their targets on a 4+ 🙄

[Televiper11]

guess who got forgotten again?

[The Red King]

3 minutes ago, Televiper11 said:

guess who got forgotten again?

Don't keep us in suspense ...

[Dolomedes]

Got a decent game in last night against SCE, which me and the lads won on turn 3!

I'm finding this edition that hero spam in Gavespawn is really good. The Extra chaos spawn showing up on an objective or tying down an enemy unit is really powerful. It's even more so now that there are fewer objectives (this ability pretty much won me the game). I've also found that Tuskgor Chariots are really good too (though they always were). I had 3 in my list with 1 as a summon, so on turn 1 I had 4 on the board. One got into combat from ambush, and the rest just sat on the opponents corners looking mean. Chariots are 6 wounds, so they count as 2 models for contesting. Like the Chaos Spawn, Chariots were great at pinning the enemy's units in place whilst the rest of my army could take objectives get into position. Chariots usually get some decent fighting done as well if you get the charge off. When they die, just summon them back in and hope for the 9 on a re-roll. Chariot spam is back. I suspect that Centigors will pull off a similar role, and I aim to get mine painted soon.

Anybody know if that guy from the Herdstone (RIP) with 12 Tuskgor chariots posts here? I'd love to see what that list does now!

[Popisdead]

16 hours ago, Televiper11 said:

guess who got forgotten again?

Someone on twitter said BoC are the NPC army of Warhammer   ugh,.. that hurts being true.

7 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

Got a decent game in last night against SCE, which me and the lads won on turn 3!

I'm finding this edition that hero spam in Gavespawn is really good. The Extra chaos spawn showing up on an objective or tying down an enemy unit is really powerful. It's even more so now that there are fewer objectives (this ability pretty much won me the game). I've also found that Tuskgor Chariots are really good too (though they always were). I had 3 in my list with 1 as a summon, so on turn 1 I had 4 on the board. One got into combat from ambush, and the rest just sat on the opponents corners looking mean. Chariots are 6 wounds, so they count as 2 models for contesting. Like the Chaos Spawn, Chariots were great at pinning the enemy's units in place whilst the rest of my army could take objectives get into position. Chariots usually get some decent fighting done as well if you get the charge off. When they die, just summon them back in and hope for the 9 on a re-roll. Chariot spam is back. I suspect that Centigors will pull off a similar role, and I aim to get mine painted soon.

Anybody know if that guy from the Herdstone (RIP) with 12 Tuskgor chariots posts here? I'd love to see what that list does now!

Who was it?  I'm still in touch with a couple of the other mods.  I would guess no; very few people from the old forums are still around. 

I had a buddy who bitz ordered 22 chariots while working at a GW in 6th ed with the 2003 book.  Another fellow bought it pretty cheap, I would be keen to see it played.  

 

On another note, AoS coach interviewed Eat_Bray_Love and he had some good points.  chaff onion to peel away and don't charge.  

Shaggoth with Adamantine Scales and Amulet of Destiny is our tankiest hero.

Making Dragon Ogres BL which are relatively harder to break and 6 cap an objective with the Shaggy well.

Ugors, Gors, Bestigors give away Broken Ranks too easy (though I think 30 Bestigors has a chance outside Bravery)

Non-BL chaff is great.  Warhounds (some sort of triangle where 8 are sideways in a line and the last two on either end wrap around?  even if you lose some they go down to 5,.. and are chaff), Raiders, Centigors are fast and able to get up there.  This was probably my biggest "oh yeah,. duh" moment.

Khorne DP and a Shaggoth with Hailstorm and the Redeploy command can really slow down armies from moving and charging at you.  Be'lakor is also a really good addition to BoC.  

Doombulls and Ghorgons pair well.  Also harkens back to 8th ed if you toss in a Razorgor.  

 

Grashrak is a bit more tanky with his built in Look out Sir to his unit.  

 

[Dolomedes]

4 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

Who was it?  I'm still in touch with a couple of the other mods.  I would guess no; very few people from the old forums are still around. 

Can't remember the name - I was hoping you'd know  I think he made them with sprues, a box of Ungors, a box of Gors, and a box of Warhounds. Hounds were Tuskgor Proxies, the Gors and Ungors were the crew, the sprues made the chariot's frame and the wheels he got from toys. It was under a post that said 'Sprue you!'. I think Chariot spam might well be on, so I'm going to look for some cheap options for mass production.

10 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

On another note, AoS coach interviewed Eat_Bray_Love and he had some good points.  chaff onion to peel away and don't charge.  

Shaggoth with Adamantine Scales and Amulet of Destiny is our tankiest hero.

Making Dragon Ogres BL which are relatively harder to break and 6 cap an objective with the Shaggy well.

Ugors, Gors, Bestigors give away Broken Ranks too easy (though I think 30 Bestigors has a chance outside Bravery)

Non-BL chaff is great.  Warhounds (some sort of triangle where 8 are sideways in a line and the last two on either end wrap around?  even if you lose some they go down to 5,.. and are chaff), Raiders, Centigors are fast and able to get up there.  This was probably my biggest "oh yeah,. duh" moment.

Khorne DP and a Shaggoth with Hailstorm and the Redeploy command can really slow down armies from moving and charging at you.  Be'lakor is also a really good addition to BoC.  

Doombulls and Ghorgons pair well.  Also harkens back to 8th ed if you toss in a Razorgor.  

Grashrak is a bit more tanky with his built in Look out Sir to his unit.  

I caught this interview - it was a real good listen. It's nice to see that BoC players have been up against it for so long now that we're actually getting pretty handy at list writing to compensate.

DO battleline is definitely a solid pick - shame they're out of stock. If you go for the Shaggoth as a general, Bestigors arn't battleline, so I'm thinking of playing around a bit more with them. A 20 stack still does me well for getting an objective when supported. I might try units of 10 with Bray Shamans in Gavespawn. I've had success with ambushing Gors and their re-roll, but I think people will soon get wise and screen it off.

Warhounds are indeed great. As are chariots. I've not played Centigors yet, but I suspect they are too.

I think Grashrak will be a solid pick now - his spell is improved this edition as it not only improves hit rolls, but it also opens up the opportunity to use all out defence/inspiring presence if it goes off, saving command points. Coupled with another unit, they're an easy 'Ferocious Advance' too (3 units running within 3").

I'm not so keen on my warherd stuff in 3.0 - it's only ever died horribly.

The Khrone DP and Belakor is neat, but I always feel a bit dirty taking stuff like that in a beasts army. It's like taking Tzaangors - ew. 

[Popisdead]

2 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

Can't remember the name - I was hoping you'd know  I think he made them with sprues, a box of Ungors, a box of Gors, and a box of Warhounds. Hounds were Tuskgor Proxies, the Gors and Ungors were the crew, the sprues made the chariot's frame and the wheels he got from toys. It was under a post that said 'Sprue you!'. I think Chariot spam might well be on, so I'm going to look for some cheap options for mass production.

....

. It's like taking Tzaangors - ew. 

haha i have 2 kids and a stressful job so the brain is fuzzy these days (add pandemic to that) but oh man i totally remember the images and probably have some still in my iPhoto under my BoC album saved.  

 

Speaking of Tzzangors i sat around during coffee break and rolled up Tzangor Enlightened.  Those are indeed good units.  Reach, fly, RRs (which appear to be going away).  Like you I held off to true cows and goats although I bought a box of Slaangors cause I love the kit and they are a joy to paint.  

I feel now the pull of Tzangors.  However if indeed we get that rumoured book in the fall I know it would be a big shake up so i'm not going to buy them, instead convert with flying bases painted as eyes and a Bestigor on top.  My question is, are the Tzangor significantly than Bestigor models?  I was also tossing around the idea of making winged ones and proxying the old Malagor as a Tzaangor Shaman.  I would feel less dirty converting some winged beasties up also.

[Dolomedes]

2 hours ago, Popisdead said:

haha i have 2 kids and a stressful job so the brain is fuzzy these days (add pandemic to that) but oh man i totally remember the images and probably have some still in my iPhoto under my BoC album saved.  

It would make my day if you could find it - that was one of the best Beastmen related posts the internet has ever seen. 

2 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Speaking of Tzzangors i sat around during coffee break and rolled up Tzangor Enlightened.  Those are indeed good units.  Reach, fly, RRs (which appear to be going away).  Like you I held off to true cows and goats although I bought a box of Slaangors cause I love the kit and they are a joy to paint.  

I feel now the pull of Tzangors.  However if indeed we get that rumoured book in the fall I know it would be a big shake up so i'm not going to buy them, instead convert with flying bases painted as eyes and a Bestigor on top.  My question is, are the Tzangor significantly than Bestigor models?  I was also tossing around the idea of making winged ones and proxying the old Malagor as a Tzaangor Shaman.  I would feel less dirty converting some winged beasties up also.

I've pondered this too. I really don't like the Tzaangor models, but it's a dam good warscroll. I'm pretty sure the Tzaangor is bigger than a Bestigor, so it might look weird if we just stuck wings on a Bestigor. They're on 40mm bases.

Here's the closest I can find for a decent conversion possibility so far:

Obviously these are far too sexy, but the wings and weapons would make for decent proxy bits. After a good look at the sprues, I can see the tails and wings would be pretty easy to stick on something else. Bestigors wouldn't make a good switch as their legs apart power stance with wings and a tail would make them look like they're out to just poop on their enemies.

Just noticed the Bestigor box still comes with square bases, and it hasn't been repackaged for AoS. The 'Start Collecting BoC box is being pulled from stores too.

Some might say I'm getting ahead of myself, but I'd say that I've just pretty much confirmed that we're getting new Bestigors, Pestigors and Khornigors in a month's time!

[Popisdead]

5 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

Obviously these are far too sexy, but the wings and weapons would make for decent proxy bits

 

Just noticed the Bestigor box still comes with square bases, and it hasn't been repackaged for AoS. The 'Start Collecting BoC box is being pulled from stores too.

Some might say I'm getting ahead of myself, but I'd say that I've just pretty much confirmed that we're getting new Bestigors, Pestigors and Khornigors in a month's time!

Nothing is too sexy for goatmen

Those are actually really good proxies,...

man a boy could dream we are getting BoC in a month or two.  This book is so lacking.

Where are the rumours about BoC people are talking about?

[The Red King]

16 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

Nothing is too sexy for goatmen

Those are actually really good proxies,...

man a boy could dream we are getting BoC in a month or two.  This book is so lacking.

Where are the rumours about BoC people are talking about?

A new book, or we're squatted, or we're in slaves to darkness, or we're a destruction faction.

 

At this rate my favorite is a local guy who suggested they're gonna open a new stormcast rumination chamber lol

[Apok]

On 9/8/2021 at 10:26 AM, Dolomedes said:

Got a decent game in last night against SCE, which me and the lads won on turn 3!

I'm finding this edition that hero spam in Gavespawn is really good. The Extra chaos spawn showing up on an objective or tying down an enemy unit is really powerful. It's even more so now that there are fewer objectives (this ability pretty much won me the game). I've also found that Tuskgor Chariots are really good too (though they always were). I had 3 in my list with 1 as a summon, so on turn 1 I had 4 on the board. One got into combat from ambush, and the rest just sat on the opponents corners looking mean. Chariots are 6 wounds, so they count as 2 models for contesting. Like the Chaos Spawn, Chariots were great at pinning the enemy's units in place whilst the rest of my army could take objectives get into position. Chariots usually get some decent fighting done as well if you get the charge off. When they die, just summon them back in and hope for the 9 on a re-roll. Chariot spam is back. I suspect that Centigors will pull off a similar role, and I aim to get mine painted soon.

Anybody know if that guy from the Herdstone (RIP) with 12 Tuskgor chariots posts here? I'd love to see what that list does now!

Hello.

  I hate to tell You this, but the Spawns do not have the Brayherd Keyword, thus Can't ambush...

[Dolomedes]

8 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Nothing is too sexy for goatmen

This x1000. Could we get away with saying they're Harpy Tzaangors?

8 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Where are the rumours about BoC people are talking about?

There's a chaos book coming in October time, which has been confirmed by the GW release schedule. Apparently some people in the know have been posting pictures of goats or something, so it's been wildly speculated that it might be our time.

https://spikeybits.com/2021/09/rumors-the-next-battletomes-for-age-of-sigmar.html

2 hours ago, Apok said:

Hello.

  I hate to tell You this, but the Spawns do not have the Brayherd Keyword, thus Can't ambush...

More's the pity! I wasn't running them in ambush, but when they pop up after a hero dies, they still function in much the same way as an ambusher and pin down enemy units. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Dolomedes

[Kevin K]

On 9/1/2021 at 9:43 AM, Dolomedes said:

Some more thoughts on us in 3.0 from my game.

...

I think there's a good case to be made for chariot spam - they're super cheap and can get stuff done right out of turn one. 6 wounds means they're 2 models for objective capping, and they can function quite well independently. Their 4+ save means they'll probably stick around a bit too, and if they survive, they can easily get where they're needed. 2 Battle regiments means you can take 10 units, so I I'll aim to fill up the slots with chariots
...

 

 

 

Totally agree on chariots.  I haven't played many 3.0 games yet, but I'v been taking 2 chariots in 2k games and they've earned their place for sure.  I like putting them on separate flanks and pushing then hard forward to take objectives and screen.  They are good/tough enough to survive incedental contact and weak enough to be ignored.

[Popisdead]

I re-read the Jabber scroll twice.  It's bad.  Just,.. bad.  madpainting is correct.  GW screwed the pooch on that warscroll re-write.  

 

One thing would be neat is a reverse hurricanum.  Make it cause insanity in a bubble that degrades and make it a degrading monster instead of a pile of poo.  And give it really good abilities again so it's taken often.  Not like,.. it's asking for much for it to be good.

[Chaos Shepard]

Personally I would like to see the Jabber's ability target all unit not just enemy units. This wouldn't necessarily make it a good unit but at least it would be a fun unit. Also could make Beast of Chaos low bravery work to an advantage.

[Maddpainting]

I honestly still can't believe they made it worst. Before it was a cool mid game threat to potential slow down an army. Now.... with all the changes (very limited hordes, harder to get more models in range bc coherency, less on the table, etc..) it somehow got worst. 

I hope the current new rules are not going into the new battle tome and was a test, as well as the Beastlord. Bc if those two goes into the new tome, oh boy I am worried for our new book.

[Lord Krungharr]

Thats exciting if we actually are gonna get a new tome and new models?!?!  I would also really hope and expect a plastic Shaggoth and Dragon Ogres to up their damage output to be like, well, Ogors.  Or at least spit lightning like the dracoths.  Plastic Doombull too but hopefully also Bullgors as the most recent plastic ones are kinda weird and almost abstractions somehow.  

Anyone think the Bray Shaman might switch to be a Priest?  That seems somehow more appropriate.

Sounds like I need to get some Tuskgor Chariots.  Haven't used my Beasts in a long time.  Eager to get them out again.