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I still hate the Beastlord's warscroll, but all this on paper looks trully as a great work from GW. it actually seems as a beastmen player's dream.   LET THE AGE OF THE BEAST BEGIN!  

Heres some of my Warherd! 

Excited for the beast book. Here my first model done   

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4 minutes ago, Kramer said:

And the Slaanesh summoning ability. Every wound inflicted on him wil also count not to mention all wounds inflicted that don’t kill. 

Under assumption that he can be slaanesh marked. Which I am assuming, be weird if he would get locked out of the 3 other gods.

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59 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Under assumption that he can be slaanesh marked. Which I am assuming, be weird if he would get locked out of the 3 other gods.

Oh course, that’s the basic assumption. But look at that beautifully sculpeted chest and proud posture. Definitely Slaanesh ;) 

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That dragon over shaggoth spell. Now I want one for my slaanesh army. Keeper of secrets with rend 3 claws from artifact plus that spell rend 4 claws and rend 3 sword sure. Daemonettes rend 2 generating extra attacks. Even if he cant have slaanesh mark that spell makes it a solid ally choice.

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As mentioned - shaggoth spell listed is from a lore that's likely only available to beast of chaos armies.

Shaggoth also lack the keywords to get any tzeentch or nurgle spells (slaanesh is likely to be the same when released), so he'll be restricted to what's on his card.

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I did like most of the changes in today's preview and look forward to finally start painting my Shaggoth and beasts.

 

**Tin foil hat comment:  Anyone thinks that they are streaming a "Beasts vs Beasts" game on Warhammer TV instead of a "Beasts vs Death/Order etc." to have a beast army win in any case and keep that hype going? ?

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26 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Oh course, that’s the basic assumption. But look at that beautifully sculpeted chest and proud posture. Definitely Slaanesh ;) 

I can see the Old Spice commercial now! ?

 

Anyways though it is very interesting how this army may very well be the army with the most amount of Rend/Armor Debuffs

Bestigors already have -1 Rend, then can get more via Shaggoth, then with the Herdstone means they'll completely negate 4+ armor saves. With Bray Shaman, there goes 3+ saves.

 

Just don't fight Nighthaunt with that strategy!

 

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13 minutes ago, decker_cky said:

As mentioned - shaggoth spell listed is from a lore that's likely only available to beast of chaos armies.

Shaggoth also lack the keywords to get any tzeentch or nurgle spells (slaanesh is likely to be the same when released), so he'll be restricted to what's on his card.

Oh missed that thought that was his warscroll spell

 

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So isn't this a nerf to bullgors with regard to the bloodgreed rule? Surely the extra attacks on a 6 (given the old rule didn't need it to be an unmodified 6) is better than a mortal wound for each unmodified 6.

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30 minutes ago, Infernalslayer said:

**Tin foil hat comment:  Anyone thinks that they are streaming a "Beasts vs Beasts" game on Warhammer TV instead of a "Beasts vs Death/Order etc." to have a beast army win in any case and keep that hype going? ?

I'll take it! I'm pretty sure Beasts lost both their 6th edition and 7th edition battle reports.

 

Just now, Screwface said:

So isn't this a nerf to bullgors with regard to the bloodgreed rule? Surely the extra attacks on a 6 (given the old rule didn't need it to be an unmodified 6) is better than a mortal wound for each unmodified 6.

I think it's comparable but removes extra dice rolling. Remember that they gain 2 attacks (different profile) that bloodgreed applies to, meaning 4-5 attacks that can trigger bloodgreed rather than 2-3.

Most importantly:

  • new bloodgreed is slightly more consistent damage; and
  • new bloodgreed justifies taking bullgors without a doombull. 
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1 minute ago, decker_cky said:

I'll take it! I'm pretty sure Beasts lost both their 6th edition and 7th edition battle reports.

 

I think it's comparable but removes extra dice rolling. Remember that they gain 2 attacks (different profile) that bloodgreed applies to, meaning 4-5 attacks that can trigger bloodgreed rather than 2-3.

Most importantly:

  • new bloodgreed is slightly more consistent damage; and
  • new bloodgreed justifies taking bullgors without a doombull. 

Yes I guess so, I just liked the insane damage it was possible to put out against low armour hordes with the old rule, with both bullgors and Ghorgons.

Do we know if the Doombull's command ability is the same?

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Also the speed shown in the twitch stream right now of even the basic infantry is insane! So good! Battleshock will be a issue though. But that’s how it supposed to be in my mind. 

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15 minutes ago, Dmuerto said:

Will Archaon be usable in Chaos God battalions?

Might need to elaborate what you mean. As in does he have synergy? Well he is Archaon, he technically synergies with all chaos.

 

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19 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Also the speed shown in the twitch stream right now of even the basic infantry is insane! So good! Battleshock will be a issue though. But that’s how it supposed to be in my mind. 

Yeah, battleshock when outside of the Herdstone range is clearly an intentional weakness of the army.

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1 hour ago, Inqy said:

Yeah, battleshock when outside of the Herdstone range is clearly an intentional weakness of the army.

Yeah thought so too. Might even end up running away the first turn before coming back ? or give your opponent first turn, ambush on you own table edge. So the fight will be a turn later and likely a bit closer to the herd-stone

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8 minutes ago, Kramer said:

 Yeah thought so too. Might even end up running away the first turn before coming back ? or give your opponent first turn, ambush on you own table edge. So the fight will be a turn later and likely a bit closer to the herd-stone

The game is about objectives, not just killing (killing helps, of course). Ceding a turn is just asking for trouble. 

What might make sense is to aggressively push forward with chaff turn 1 to slow enemy lines as much as possible until the herdstone comes into play, without sacrificing objectives. 

The utility of the herdstone will depend on its deployment rules (ie, does it start 6" forward). If it deploys normally, it likely isn't worth the hoops to play to maximize it. 

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11 minutes ago, decker_cky said:

The game is about objectives, not just killing (killing helps, of course). Ceding a turn is just asking for trouble. 

What might make sense is to aggressively push forward with chaff turn 1 to slow enemy lines as much as possible until the herdstone comes into play, without sacrificing objectives. 

The utility of the herdstone will depend on its deployment rules (ie, does it start 6" forward). If it deploys normally, it likely isn't worth the hoops to play to maximize it. 

To be fair it was meant in jest. But to reply seriously, yes it is about objectives and screening past the middle objective can be a solid tactic. But in the same manner several from the standard scenarios, and a lot outside of the 18 which we play a lot of as well, have moving objectives, random value objectives, dropping in objective. A lot of which definitely can favor  a reactive playstyle to your opponents initial movements. Of course the opposing army also influences that choice. But it worked for me my last three battles with DoK to hang back turn one. 1 game even was against brayherd and forced him to deploy his second wave before I had to decide which flank to go on. Was great fun.

And confirmed in the twitch stream the herdstone needs to be set up in you own deployment. 

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2 hours ago, Screwface said:

Yes I guess so, I just liked the insane damage it was possible to put out against low armour hordes with the old rule, with both bullgors and Ghorgons.

Do we know if the Doombull's command ability is the same?

Me too. The Doombull’s ability is the same as shown on stream, which means it too is worse than before because it has had its synergy removed.

Arguably the Ghorgon’s rule is better now because it does D3 MW on a 6. But then again it’s a unmodified 6, rather than the 5+ it used to be.

In all this really feels like Warherds have lost a lot of power, since they have lost the synergy they had, and don’t benefit as much as they could have done from the 3 other new save modifiers the army has. I mean who cares about mortal wounds when you’re rocking Rend -3 and -2 to save rolls?!

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Nothing we have seen indicates that warherds have lost power. Instead of the garbage allegiance chaos abilities and potential to spike high amounts of damage with bloodgreed, the allegiance gains the herdstone, free healing, and multiple attacks per model which benefit from a toned down bloodgreed.

Assuming you have no to hit bonus and have a doombull command ability up, old and new GW bullgors equally likely to trigger bloodgreed (each triggers 0.3333 bloodgreed attacks per round). Ignoring armour, old bullgors averaged 1.25 wounds per triggered bloodgreed (but only cause any extra damage 41% of the time), while new bullgors cause 1 wound (auto triggers).  With 2 free added attacks on bullgors, pretty much regardless of the profile (did the video reveal the horn profile?), your expected damage will be higher with new bullgors.

Outside the doombull command ability aura  there's no contest that new minotaurs are better. 

---------

Magic is unreliable in the best of times. If its one of your top 2 spells, your opponent likely will try to dispel it if you succeed on the base roll, meaning <50%  probability of casting. Worth having, but you don't want to be a slave to having your spells go off. 

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27 minutes ago, decker_cky said:

Nothing we have seen indicates that warherds have lost power. Instead of the garbage allegiance chaos abilities and potential to spike high amounts of damage with bloodgreed, the allegiance gains the herdstone, free healing, and multiple attacks per model which benefit from a toned down bloodgreed.

Assuming you have no to hit bonus and have a doombull command ability up, old and new GW bullgors equally likely to trigger bloodgreed (each triggers 0.3333 bloodgreed attacks per round). Ignoring armour, old bullgors averaged 1.25 wounds per triggered bloodgreed (but only cause any extra damage 41% of the time), while new bullgors cause 1 wound (auto triggers).  With 2 free added attacks on bullgors, pretty much regardless of the profile (did the video reveal the horn profile?), your expected damage will be higher with new bullgors.

Outside the doombull command ability aura  there's no contest that new minotaurs are better. 

---------

Magic is unreliable in the best of times. If its one of your top 2 spells, your opponent likely will try to dispel it if you succeed on the base roll, meaning <50%  probability of casting. Worth having, but you don't want to be a slave to having your spells go off. 

From the stream it looks like you get 2 horn attacks at 4+ 4+ Rend - damage 1. How does that affect the maths?

 

The Ghorgon triggers D3 MW on a 6 now. He also has the new swallowing ability, but I think he lost his D6 damage  Maw attack.

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Initial thoughts:

Bestigors - To me, Best-Gor is a much better appropriation of the name than Besti-gor, but close enough! I have to say that I don't really feel the Despoilers rule in terms of fluff. Like the little fluff thing and being better against units of 10 or more models doesn't really line up. Maybe they think when there are plenty of men around they're tearing down civilization? Dunno. Bestial Charge is a good buff to them, especially coming on from Ambush for that money backline charge.
Will be interesting to see how many points they land at, gut feeling is that they'll be back up to 140 with the buffs.

 

Gargant receiving buffs, awesome! Extra attacks on his kits and headbutts is really sweet!

 

Ghorgon swallow whole is pretty cool, interesting that it's equal to or greater. Which means 1 wound infantry aint safe, and a much better chance at killing off enemy 5 wound characters. Optimistic, but cautious about other changes he might have received (I'm sure his Bloodgreed will change as well).

Bullgor bloodgreed changing is something that I think is pretty evident. GW are moving away from re-rolls or extra attack abilities in the game, instead preferring extra hits/wounds or mortal wounds. It's something that speeds up the pace of the game as you don't have to redo the attack sequence. So not fussed here.

 

Dragon Ogors... really GW... still no damage 2? That's pretty disappointing. My guess is that GW don't want them to feel too similar to Bullgors and hence are staying away from the damage 2, but really.... they're Ogors.... with a Draconic body... maybe in their old age they've lost some muscle?
Oh well, guess it's just something that's going to stay sadly. Hitting on 3's is pretty good though as long as their points stay down.

In regards to the Shaggoth, I think people may be reading too much into the spell when talking about using him as an ally. Nowhere does it mention that this is his base warscroll spell. In fact, Rhu says:

Shaggoths have even been given a spell lore of their own in the new book – I’ve found Sundering Blades works fantastically with basically anything you apply it to

Which to me implies he chose to take that spell, not that it's the default. That being said, we have to remember that the Shaggoth becoming a Wizard means he'll definitely be getting a points increase. So even if it is the default spell, he'll come with a cost as an ally.

 

Centigors, cool finally Brayherd and with a nifty ability. Look forward to seeing what they can do.

Tzaangor should've always had a separate foot matched play profile anyway, just GW finally getting it right.

Interesting peaks into the Bray SHamans spell lore.

 

And that's it, last few a little rushed but I gotta go!

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12 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

Initial thoughts:

Bestigors - To me, Best-Gor is a much better appropriation of the name than Besti-gor, but close enough! I have to say that I don't really feel the Despoilers rule in terms of fluff. Like the little fluff thing and being better against units of 10 or more models doesn't really line up. Maybe they think when there are plenty of men around they're tearing down civilization? Dunno. Bestial Charge is a good buff to them, especially coming on from Ambush for that money backline charge.
 

 

Well the problem with the old despoiler rule is that many new AoS units lack standard bearers. This now gives them some extra punch against the newer armies, though now these guys will suffer against Oldhammer Cavalry/MSU (but I think thats a negligible nerf).

But yea we already discussed a lot about the shaggoth. He'll probably stick to BoC allegiance or occasionally Slaanesh.

On Bullgors, I think the MW will help make them less reliant on Rend buffs so you can give those to other units like Bestigors or even Warhounds.

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This is all the info from the stream, courtesy of the Beasts of Chaos FB group.

- Gors get +1 attack at 20+ models, instead of their current rule. No more rolling for benefits randomly
- Bullgors get extra horn attacks. No idea the profile
- No allies outside of StD, but you can bring the God battalions in their respective God armies without counting as allies
- Shaman keeps movement buff
- Jabberslythe nerfed. 4+ to do 1 MW for each wound it takes. But its other aura has been buffed to be more reliable, but also hit allies. 160pts now
- Gargant is 180pts now
- Beastlord is 80pts now
- Skyfires down to 200pts. MWs only on unmodified 6s to hit
- 8 Battalions. One for each God. One for Brayherds. One Warherds. One Thunderscorn. One mixed (probably mega-battalion?)
- 18 Artefacts and 18 Command Traits. 6 for each Brayherds, Warherds, and Thunderscorn
- Allherds Artefact: gives +1 rend against units of 10+, and +2 rend against units of 20+. Max rend on the weapon is -3
- Allherds Command Ability: give reroll charges to a Brayherd unit within 18" of your General, if said General is within 3" of the enemy
- Summoning: +1 point per turn. You can then do D3 motals to a unit near the Herdstone to get the same amount of extra summoning points

What do you guys think?

Edited by The Darkest Soul
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38 minutes ago, Colonel Cabbage said:

From the stream it looks like you get 2 horn attacks at 4+ 4+ Rend - damage 1. How does that affect the maths?

 

The Ghorgon triggers D3 MW on a 6 now. He also has the new swallowing ability, but I think he lost his D6 damage  Maw attack.

Against 4+ save, 0.25 extra wounds (no buff) or 0.33 extra wounds (doombull command ability). Obviously this benefits a lot from any rend buff. 

Assuming all else remained the same, vs 4+ save target, outside buffs:

  • a single old bullgor caused an average 1.8 unsaved wounds; and
  • a new bullgor causes an average 2.25 unsaved wounds.

Under doombull command ability buff:

  • a single old bullgor caused an average 2.43 unsaved wounds; and
  • a new bullgor causes an average 2.75 unsaved wounds.
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