AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Televiper11]

7 minutes ago, Graywater said:

I want to jump in on a bullgor and ghorgon army quite badly, but the models are so disappointing. I dont care about a box discount. Give me new sculpts and I'll buy the army at retail.

Bullgors are a little stale by the Ghorgon is awesome and easy to kitbash with Cygor bits.

[Kamose]

16 minutes ago, Graywater said:

I want to jump in on a bullgor and ghorgon army quite badly, but the models are so disappointing. I dont care about a box discount. Give me new sculpts and I'll buy the army at retail.

This.  Everything about this. 

I'll agree that the Ghorgon is alright but those Bullgor models are some of the worst GW have ever made imo.  They're so bizarrely and grotesquely bloated and ugly I'd almost think they were going for some kind of 'warped and twisted chaos monstrosity' vibe.  But I think the truth is that they're just ugly and poorly sculpted.

However give us new Bullgors and a new shaggoth and I might just expand beyond Brayherd!  Dragon Ogors in particular are sweet!  

[Televiper11]

Shaggoth & Doombull & Beastlord are my new plastic priorities — they all need to be scaled up and made to look more twisted & terrifying!

[The Red King]

Zealot miniatures produces the best minotaurs around and at 20USD per they're about the same cost as bullgors which is laughable. 

The Ghorgon kit however is absolutely awesome looking put together. And unusually huge too.

[Chaos Shepard]

One other think for bullgors I could see is a change to blood greed. Maybe make closer to what it was but in a way that is similar to more modern rules, 6 to hit count as 2 hits is what I have in mind. I feel this could help deliver those few extra hits while still hitting on 4 base.

[Myrdin]

6 hours ago, Graywater said:

I want to jump in on a bullgor and ghorgon army quite badly, but the models are so disappointing. I dont care about a box discount. Give me new sculpts and I'll buy the army at retail.

Thats why I opted for Mierce Miniature minotaurs instead. They look so much better than the weird muscle blob from GW.

[Graywater]

4 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Thats why I opted for Mierce Miniature minotaurs instead. They look so much better than the weird muscle blob from GW.

 

9 hours ago, The Red King said:

Zealot miniatures produces the best minotaurs around and at 20USD per they're about the same cost as bullgors which is laughable. 

The Ghorgon kit however is absolutely awesome looking put together. And unusually huge too.

I own a few of the zealot minotaurs and like the mierce sculpts too. Problem is they are resin and prone to breaking. I have to travel fairly far to play and don't want my hard work/money breaking. 

[Fulcanelli]

I'd like to start a BoC project, soon or later.
We could assume that Bullgors sculpts won't be refresh for AoS 3.0, since they are in the Broken Realms box?

It would be frustrating to buy it and then watch them replaced with better ones... (Yes they're a bit goofy, especially the legs, but properly painted they'll be ok, I guess).

[Ganigumo]

I'd say the chances of most of the plastic kits getting updated is pretty low, in terms of kit updates I imagine its probably ordered something like this:

1. Beastlord
2. Doombull
3. Centigors
4. Dragon Ogor Shaggoth
5. Tuskgor chariot
6. Chaos warhounds
7. Cockatrice (new sculpt or squat)
8. Razorgor (new sculpt or squat)
9. Bullgors/Dragon Ogors
10. everything else

If I had my way I'd put new bullgors and bipedal dragon ogors right under the centigors though.

[tupavko]

I'll never get tired expressing my overal disappointement when it comes to bullgors:

VISUALLY: oh man they are bad; they look like a basterd child of a steroid grown bodybuilder and a hairless rat, with the same dynamism of a greek column... They are bulls... i mean we've all seen the spanish corrida or the american rodeo, those beasts are massive but they are powefull, nasty and a lot quicker than what one might think.... Bullgors should be in terms of aesthetics the most dynamic of all mostruous infantry side by side with ratogres, and at the same time they should feel massivly powerful. Just copy the models from Total War there is nothing to invent... They already did it!

GAMEPLAY: everything about bullgors is wrong. They are slow, especially compared to other big dudes, but bulls aint's slow, they are big but massivly strong in proprotion to their size, so they should't run as aelven kangaroos but neither shoul be foot slogging infantry... Also, if there is a creature outhere that should be able to RUN-CHARGE-DEAL IMPACT HITS I think based on common sense it should be a massive 2-legged bull on speed with the same psychological profile of Hannibal Lecter...

Let's continue: hitting on 4's... Maybe it could have been ok, but then trolls hit all on 3+... Trolls, the dummest creature in the entire universe, and they all have range 2'' by using their bare hands while a Bull-man as tall as a Troll and twice as large, with an axe the size of a horse rider, is hittin with range 1'''

Keep on going: Bloodgreed, is just dumb... Bullgors seem a lot like a rampaging unit on the field, not some ghouls feasting on dead bodies... I can't imagine bullgors stopping the carnage to eat. I immagine bloodgreed like a lot more "active" thing than just feeding, I see it a lot more as a bloodbath, with these massive monsters "ignoring wounds" due to the testosterone overdrive in their bodies rather than " a poor's man vimper thing", just like it used to be in the classical "tauromachia" (roman and greek bull killing rites) spectacles.

And again just look at them in Total War, Minotaurs are not a grinding unit, they are a hammer weilding a sledghammer, they hit, and than hit again, and keep hitting till their is blood in their veins, if they get bogged down theey are still naked 4m tall cows, they go down... Make them fast, super killy and force the BoC players to use them with dynamism (something that our army is already all about), and they will be great.

I will not even mention the fact they have 2A (3A for a Doombull...............is the saddest thing ever since he is basically my overall favorite character in the entire WH lore since ever) and their horns are 4+/4+ NO REND 1D...... a 2m long horn is NO REND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Sometimes I get carried away and I hate GW so much (which kind of is ok, and perfectly suited for a BoC player...)

Sorry for the super salty post but bullgors make me so angry!

[Skreech Verminking]

23 minutes ago, tupavko said:

I'll never get tired expressing my overal disappointement when it comes to bullgors:

VISUALLY: oh man they are bad; they look like a basterd child of a steroid grown bodybuilder and a hairless rat, with the same dynamism of a greek column... They are bulls... i mean we've all seen the spanish corrida or the american rodeo, those beasts are massive but they are powefull, nasty and a lot quicker than what one might think.... Bullgors should be in terms of aesthetics the most dynamic of all mostruous infantry side by side with ratogres, and at the same time they should feel massivly powerful. Just copy the models from Total War there is nothing to invent... They already did it!

GAMEPLAY: everything about bullgors is wrong. They are slow, especially compared to other big dudes, but bulls aint's slow, they are big but massivly strong in proprotion to their size, so they should't run as aelven kangaroos but neither shoul be foot slogging infantry... Also, if there is a creature outhere that should be able to RUN-CHARGE-DEAL IMPACT HITS I think based on common sense it should be a massive 2-legged bull on speed with the same psychological profile of Hannibal Lecter...

Let's continue: hitting on 4's... Maybe it could have been ok, but then trolls hit all on 3+... Trolls, the dummest creature in the entire universe, and they all have range 2'' by using their bare hands while a Bull-man as tall as a Troll and twice as large, with an axe the size of a horse rider, is hittin with range 1'''

Keep on going: Bloodgreed, is just dumb... Bullgors seem a lot like a rampaging unit on the field, not some ghouls feasting on dead bodies... I can't imagine bullgors stopping the carnage to eat. I immagine bloodgreed like a lot more "active" thing than just feeding, I see it a lot more as a bloodbath, with these massive monsters "ignoring wounds" due to the testosterone overdrive in their bodies rather than " a poor's man vimper thing", just like it used to be in the classical "tauromachia" (roman and greek bull killing rites) spectacles.

And again just look at them in Total War, Minotaurs are not a grinding unit, they are a hammer weilding a sledghammer, they hit, and than hit again, and keep hitting till their is blood in their veins, if they get bogged down theey are still naked 4m tall cows, they go down... Make them fast, super killy and force the BoC players to use them with dynamism (something that our army is already all about), and they will be great.

I will not even mention the fact they have 2A (3A for a Doombull...............is the saddest thing ever since he is basically my overall favorite character in the entire WH lore since ever) and their horns are 4+/4+ NO REND 1D...... a 2m long horn is NO REND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Sometimes I get carried away and I hate GW so much (which kind of is ok, and perfectly suited for a BoC player...)

Sorry for the super salty post but bullgors make me so angry!

If I could change a few things on the bullgors warscroll it would be this:

bloodgreed: if this unit made a charge, add an extra 3 attacks to all of their attacks characteristic.

fast and deadly: this unit can run and still charge in the same turn.

Changing the movement characteristics to 8”.

have them at a cost of 180-195p

[Chaos Shepard]

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

I'd say the chances of most of the plastic kits getting updated is pretty low, in terms of kit updates I imagine its probably ordered something like this:

1. Beastlord
2. Doombull
3. Centigors
4. Dragon Ogor Shaggoth
5. Tuskgor chariot
6. Chaos warhounds
7. Cockatrice (new sculpt or squat)
8. Razorgor (new sculpt or squat)
9. Bullgors/Dragon Ogors
10. everything else

If I had my way I'd put new bullgors and bipedal dragon ogors right under the centigors though.

Don't forget the Jabberslythe. It's not a bad sculpt but it is resin, sort of puts it up there with the Razorgors.

In fairness no one really seem to have much to say on the Jabberslythe. It feels like most people only ever took it because the

rules where good. Once the rule got a garbage re-right it fell into obscurity. I have never really been a fan of the Jabberslythe so I know that I wouldn't care all that much if it was squated but I was wondering if there were fans of it out there.

[Popisdead]

 

2 hours ago, Fulcanelli said:

We could assume that Bullgors sculpts won't be refresh for AoS 3.0, since they are in the Broken Realms box?

No.  You cannot assume anything with BoC and GW except they will limp along.  They are easily due for new sculpts (11 years old).  I mean look how amazing the new VC are.  Re-imagined and amazing in sculpts, look, direction.  Granted those Zombies were from the mid 1990s.  

21 minutes ago, Chaos Shepard said:

Don't forget the Jabberslythe. It's not a bad sculpt but it is resin, sort of puts it up there with the Razorgors.

In fairness no one really seem to have much to say on the Jabberslythe. It feels like most people only ever took it because the

rules where good. Once the rule got a garbage re-right it fell into obscurity. I have never really been a fan of the Jabberslythe so I know that I wouldn't care all that much if it was squated but I was wondering if there were fans of it out there.

I've been thinking about the Jabberslythe lately.    Something was good and taken, GW removed what made it good, then changed it in an odd way as rationalization and now it's never taken. Breaking the monster format was dumb.  I quite like the degrading system.

[Myrdin]

So Mierce Miniatures also realeased these adorable fluffers. Perfectly fitting after the Bullgor talk about dynamic miniatures full of character. Yet another nice proxi if you dont like the weird bull-rat thing GW offers.

Edited May 26, 2021 by Myrdin

[Televiper11]

[Ganigumo]

2 hours ago, Chaos Shepard said:

Don't forget the Jabberslythe. It's not a bad sculpt but it is resin, sort of puts it up there with the Razorgors.

In fairness no one really seem to have much to say on the Jabberslythe. It feels like most people only ever took it because the

rules where good. Once the rule got a garbage re-right it fell into obscurity. I have never really been a fan of the Jabberslythe so I know that I wouldn't care all that much if it was squated but I was wondering if there were fans of it out there.

huh, I thought the jabberslythe was plastic for some reason, yeah I would definitely move it up then.

I think "Monsters of Chaos" is something that should stick around, and maybe even expand at some point. An army of monsters with warhounds trailing led by an alpha beast driven by the whispers of chaos is a cool narrative concept

Edited May 26, 2021 by Ganigumo

[Maddpainting]

I honestly see the Jabberslythe going away.

[Maddpainting]

46 minutes ago, Televiper11 said:

Does this have us in it? (on mobile currently)

[Graywater]

26 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Does this have us in it? (on mobile currently)

Yes. Pretty interesting little narrative.

[Televiper11]

50 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Does this have us in it? (on mobile currently)

Indeed and it’s very good

[The Red King]

1 hour ago, Televiper11 said:

How did I miss this! Oh man this is all so cool. I want morghur the shadowgave so bad T_T

[tupavko]

1 minute ago, The Red King said:

How did I miss this! Oh man this is all so cool. I want morghur the shadowgave so bad T_T

I think we all do.... Imagine a perfect world were our God-like leader is an overgrown beast-spawn... 

[Myrdin]

2 hours ago, Televiper11 said:

Oh this was some good stuff!

I dont hope anything tangible will come out of it as far as the game itself goes. But as a tid bit of lore, this was really delicious offering! BAAAAH!

[Popisdead]

1 hour ago, Maddpainting said:

I honestly see the Jabberslythe going away.

sadly me too.  I worry the range will be culled and finecast won't be replaced.

[Chaos Shepard]

Oh that was some good fluff. I am soo thrilled to see some nuances in the beastmen. It's to bad that we know they ultimately fail, maybe they will have some good moments to shine before that happens.