AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, cyberhawk94 said:

New FAQ, the Gaunt Summoner now only summons 5 Horrors. Still worth as an ally or cut from the list?

Well I mean it is still a 25wound unit with a 6++.

So it is definitely still a great option to have.

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Skreech Verminking

[Sauriv]

2 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well I mean it is still a 25wound unit with a 6++.

So it is definitely still a great option to have.

Just want to point out that the 6++ only works on the pinks making it far less efficient. I have a friend who plays with a gaunt summoner in StD and the horrors die quite fast due to almost no save (6+).

[Maddpainting]

Its still well worth it, but IDK if its worth it for us.

[Smillis88]

Do you guys know if they got rid of the relm artifacts? 

[Alan Mandelson]

1 hour ago, Smillis88 said:

Do you guys know if they got rid of the relm artifacts? 

Malign Sorcery Artifacts are now gone from Match Play. They have been replaced with 7, in my opinion, mostly ****** ones (only half decent one is Ghyran, heal 1 wound in your hero phase).

[Maddpainting]

Each realm only has 1 now, and yes they all are terrible. IDK any book that would want any of them.

Here they are, i shorted them, you basically pick realm for spells and command abilities now. Like Aqshy has a unit gets +1 to run and charges CP, or Chamin +1 to hits CP and +1 to saves spell (For DO Chamon can make them work hard in DoT, you can have 2+ saves, hitting on 2+). Or Ghurs +2 to run and charges spell.

Aqshy - 1 Weapon unmod 6's to hit scores 2 hits instead of 1
Chamon - If Rend is -1 it is instead "-"
Ghur - Bearer re-roll charges
Ghyran - Bearer heals 1 start of hero phase
Hysh - Re-roll hits of 1 for a weapon
Shyish - Re-roll saves of 1 for the bearer
Ulgu - Re-roll wounds of 1 for a weapon

I will be going Aqshy or Ghur for now on, Ghur is casting of 5 to add +2" to runs and charges, this is great but idk if i will be able to get it off vs all the good magic armies, Aqshy is a CP and i can use multi CP on different units.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Maddpainting

[Fazhak]

Some good news and Thunderscorn updates...

I made some small changes to my 2000pt GHB20 list and I'm happy to report that things seem to be progressing well. The main difference is that I took a chance on a more "smashmouth" approach (shout-out to the old Herdstone forums crew!), with artefacts, spells, and traits that hopefully ensure initial charges cripple opposing forces. Equipped so, Thunderscorn can field at least two sets of Shaggoth-backed, 6-model units of Dragon Ogors which, if supported properly, can strike before their opposition retaliates.

Leading up to charges against two separate targets, one Thunderscorn set includes the general with the Lightning-fast Monstrosity trait; the other Thunderscorn set is hopefully successful in casting Wildfire Taurus. With movement buffed by both Creatures of the Storm and Horn of the Tempest, getting these units into an advantageous charge position is rarely difficult. With successful charges, one set gets its attacks in before its target can strike back, while the other group attacks prior to its target due to the Endless Spell's debuff. The result is a level of damage output that I find to be rather surprising to players who are unfamiliar with the Thunderscorn.

My smaller set of Thunderscorn, with its Shaggoth and 3-model unit of Dragon Ogors, handles Herdstone duty, benefiting from both Raging Storm and  Summon Lightning to heal damage inflicted by Primordial Call sacrifices. Meanwhile, my unit of Bullgor hopefully take down the biggest threat on the board, my two units of Bestigor block or claim objectives, and my unit of Ungor Raiders either screens or otherwise disrupts my opponent's positioning.

Here's my current list. I hope you find it to be fun!

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos

Leaders
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (170)
- General
- Command Trait: Lightning-fast Monstrosity
- Artefact: Ancestral Azyrite Blade
- Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering Blades
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (170)
- Artefact: Horn of the Tempest
- Lore of Dark Storms: Hailstorm
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (170)
- Lore of Dark Storms: Thunderwave

Battleline
6 x Dragon Ogors (260)
- 6x Draconic War glaives
6 x Dragon Ogors (260)
- 6x Draconic War glaives
3 x Dragon Ogors (130)
- 3x Draconic War glaives

Units
6 x Bullgors (280)
- Great Axes
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Ungor Raiders (80)

Battalions
Thunderscorn Stormherd (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Wildfire Taurus (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 159

[Smillis88]

Any thoughts on the breyblast trumpet artefact? Just used it tonight on a brey shaman. Ambushed him with a group of 40 raiders with bestigors in the front and the desolating beastheard battalion. 40 attacks hitting on 3 because of the trumpet RR 1 and 2s and 6s count as 2 attacks. Killed 2 of my opponents wizards and did a few more damage on a unit. Havent seem many use the artifact and and curious is anyone else had any good results with it? 

[TheArborealWalrus]

I'll be stealing most of @Fazhak's list. I've been wanting to try out dragon ogres and his list looks like an excellent framework.  I want to add a custom dragon ogre hero though, so I'll need to rejigger it. 

So I've got a question for folks here. I've been running into a lot of bravery debuffs (especially from the lumineth, good lord) . When I was Khorne I wouldn't care (more blood tithe), but now that I need my things to survive it's a problem. Even a -1 can be horrible on elite units like dragon ogres  or bulls. I realize that competitively we just have a ton more ungor units to replace them with, but I want to roll with other stuff too.  Variety is the spice of life after all. The herdstone just doesn't have the range to cover my assault troops, and command points run out quick when you could lose 2 models from 1 casualty. (nevermind the bravery nukes the lumineth have) How are you all dealing with these threats?  I feel like the solution is to have one or two blobs that can take a hero to babysit while leaving the rest to the wolves. That strategy  just rubs me the wrong way though. (plus I want to play around with our bigger boys who are more vulnerable) My precious goat babies die when I want them to! Not for some heathen's whims!

[Kramig]

hello everybody! I am a slave to darkness and khorne player. I have been thinking about starting beast of chaos since much months. So, before starting, I need one info from you: 

what's beast of chaos play style? horde? is it possible to avoid big size units? 

Thank you!

 

[Sauriv]

3 hours ago, Kramig said:

hello everybody! I am a slave to darkness and khorne player. I have been thinking about starting beast of chaos since much months. So, before starting, I need one info from you: 

what's beast of chaos play style? horde? is it possible to avoid big size units? 

Thank you!

 

A typical way of playing BoC is to swarming the objectives and put your other things in the way so the opponent have a hard time reaching the objectives, even if they kill everything they touch. 

Few things in this army are killy and you need to focus on the objective game to grab as much point as you can before all your stuff dies. 

Hordes are the usual way to play and going a more elite army would I say is hard, especially if you are looking at Bullgor and dragon ogors. Bullgor have high damage but few attacks that hits on 4+, bad save(like most things in the army), slow compared to brayherd and they have almost no synergies. Dragon ogors lack the damage output instead(never played them though). 

[Kramig]

Thank you! 

What about tzaangor? I remember they were used very much at the beginning 

[Sauriv]

29 minutes ago, Kramig said:

Thank you! 

What about tzaangor? I remember they were used very much at the beginning 

Tzaangor Enlightened on disc are quite good, i think, don't know how they feel after the point change a while ago but they are crazy fast and can do some damage. With a bray shaman they move 19" 🤯. But I haven't played them either. 

I have alot of brayherd and warherd and from those can I recommend Bestigors (i have 70 in my collection 😇) and Ungor Raiders. I also like putting a lonely doombull next to the herdstone where he can sacrifice himself for summoning points. He costs 100p and have 8w compared to a bray shaman (100p) that sacrifices 10 Ungors(60p)

[Kramig]

Actually I love brayherd, especially gor and bestigor, but I don't like playing units of more then 20 guys... Is there some exemplar battle report you would suggest me, in order to understand better beastmen play? 

[Salyx]

You can find a lot of Beastmen goodness on Youtube. Especially Joel Mc Grath has a lot of content about Beasts of Chaos. The Youtube-channel where he publishes his battle reports is Measured Gaming and you will find an Interview with him as Brayherd Player and another Player as Warherd Player on the Beasts of Chaos Faction Focus in the AoS Coach channel. 

Basically, Joel's approach is to have a few fighty units and the Rest consists of a lot of minimum sized units for Objective grabbing and Screening. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Salyx

[Fazhak]

On 7/26/2020 at 2:32 AM, TheArborealWalrus said:

I'll be stealing most of @Fazhak's list. I've been wanting to try out dragon ogres and his list looks like an excellent framework.  I want to add a custom dragon ogre hero though, so I'll need to rejigger it. 

So I've got a question for folks here. I've been running into a lot of bravery debuffs (especially from the lumineth, good lord) . When I was Khorne I wouldn't care (more blood tithe), but now that I need my things to survive it's a problem. Even a -1 can be horrible on elite units like dragon ogres  or bulls. I realize that competitively we just have a ton more ungor units to replace them with, but I want to roll with other stuff too.  Variety is the spice of life after all. The herdstone just doesn't have the range to cover my assault troops, and command points run out quick when you could lose 2 models from 1 casualty. (nevermind the bravery nukes the lumineth have) How are you all dealing with these threats?  I feel like the solution is to have one or two blobs that can take a hero to babysit while leaving the rest to the wolves. That strategy  just rubs me the wrong way though. (plus I want to play around with our bigger boys who are more vulnerable) My precious goat babies die when I want them to! Not for some heathen's whims!

Thanks for the continued conversation! I am glad this looks like a fun option for you!

It really is an enjoyable, interesting change of pace for Beasts of Chaos. Even better, it is also disproving the notion that mass Ungor, horde-style play is the only competitive point of departure for this faction. Perhaps it takes a bit more work to play, as timing and alignment of charges are crucial to playing this kind of list successfully, but overall I think it demonstrates that a Beasts of Chaos "elite" army can compete.

Regarding Bravery concerns, I, too, considered those risks. Such was why I originally played this kind of list with the Allherd Greatfray: the battleshock buff from that subfaction was attractive to me. However, I am finding that, as long as I am careful with Hero movement to support my units, Inspiring Presence helps with most battleshock issues. There are specific times when it does not; for example, a Nighthaunt Shrieker Host might be problematic. Overall, though, saving command points for Inspiring Presence is a somewhat consistent response, especially given the multiwound, multi-healing options available to sustain the units.

I hope that helps. What do you think?

[Popisdead]

On 7/23/2020 at 5:53 PM, Maddpainting said:

Ghur - Bearer re-roll charges
 

I was thinking about that too.  I think there is a WArherd item that already does that.  A pair of Doombulls charging in Darkwalkers could have mileage.  Or not...

On 7/24/2020 at 9:21 PM, Smillis88 said:

Any thoughts on the breyblast trumpet artefact? Just used it tonight on a brey shaman. Ambushed him with a group of 40 raiders with bestigors in the front and the desolating beastheard battalion. 40 attacks hitting on 3 because of the trumpet RR 1 and 2s and 6s count as 2 attacks. Killed 2 of my opponents wizards and did a few more damage on a unit. Havent seem many use the artifact and and curious is anyone else had any good results with it? 

I've thought about that item a bit.  Kinda like what you've mentioned here.  I imagine the one use limits why we don't consider it.

On 7/27/2020 at 2:35 AM, Kramig said:

hello everybody! I am a slave to darkness and khorne player. I have been thinking about starting beast of chaos since much months. So, before starting, I need one info from you: 

what's beast of chaos play style? horde? is it possible to avoid big size units? 

Thank you!

 

Bestigors, Ungors in 10-man and Horde are good.  Horde is good if you want to slam something hard with lots of attacks but go wide.  However that's slightly tricky?  Or jsut

MSU is good cause you are only throwing away a few points at a time

Maddpainting has previously (perhaps as far back as March ish, covid,. what is time these days) mentioned his list is generally 6 x 10 Ungors, 6x 10 Bestigors, and heroes.  He builds chaff layers and then slams things with Bestigors.  IF he would do some Bat Reps it would benefit us all.  Granted as mentioned Joel McGrath does really good BoC batreps.  they are short, clear and concise.  unlike,.. ugh,. the 1+ hour ones out there.

On 7/27/2020 at 9:19 AM, Kramig said:

Actually I love brayherd, especially gor and bestigor, but I don't like playing units of more then 20 guys... Is there some exemplar battle report you would suggest me, in order to understand better beastmen play? 

Well 20 is fine.  Gors,.. are tricky.  Ungors are better for several reasons but if you really love something and don't expect to be top tournament competitive play with what you love and find ways to make it work.  10-man Gors with shields have decent footprints and armour.  gosh if you had them in terrain taking a charge on an objective they'd have a 3 in that combat.  

[Alan Mandelson]

Warherd have a Command Trait for re-roll Charge rolls for friendly Warherd wholly within 12". Warherd also have an artifact for +2 to it's own charge rolls (I'm a big fan of taking this with Darkwalkers).

[TheArborealWalrus]

7 hours ago, Fazhak said:

What do you think?

I think it generally works well in a DO list , you want your hero with a unit anyways and they don't have command abilities to spend points on so  its good. I feel it's workable even with a -1 debuff. Just keep a point handy.  *gets on soap box*

The Lumineth are my big bravery problem. I've been fighting a lot of them lately.  -2 bravery first turn, -3 every turn afterwards. Then add in double command point cost to ignore battleshock and the final icing on the cake is the cathaller (mage) passing their casualties onto you, and adding a further -1 to your bravery for the rest of the game. Since all the spells (the front abilities) get cast on a 10+1 you can't generally stop them.  I even went straight for Teclis who was casting the spells, but lost most of my army on the way. I'm admittedly trying all the things right now, so it wasn't optimized, but 3 casualties could wipe out a unit like that. Example: 6 bullgors charge Teclis and have to touch his 20 bodyguards. 3 vs big T and 2 go into the troop. T dies, and 7 wardens go down. Not a bad result. In exchange I lose 2 bulls. Totally won that exchange right? Wrong. I get -4 bravery from spells and transference, but that's fine as I got + 4 bravery from his nearby units ... until I get given the 7 casualties from the wardens. I only have 1 command point so I can't auto pass, leaving me with a net total of losing d 6 +2 models. I just don't know how to handle that!  (*frustrated goat noises*) *gets off of soap box* 

It just upsets me. I don't see a real answer, I mostly just wanted to complain. I'd be happy to be wrong, just ... It should be noted that I've still beaten the lumineth, it's just frustrating to lose a unit to 1-3 casualties. On a side note, having tried them, giants are indeed terrible. Warhounds did okay. Tied down artillery for me.  Cocatrice was ... terrible in melee and dragon ogres were okay. Bulls definitely seem like our overall best damage dealers. Followed by ghorgon and bestigors. Haven't been very impressed with the raiders so far. Great screens, terrible snipers. (in my experience thus far) I'm going to keep trying units, see how they go. Giants get one more game to prove themselves. Wish them luck.

On 7/27/2020 at 2:35 AM, Kramig said:

what's beast of chaos play style? horde? is it possible to avoid big size units? 

Beasts style seems to be advanced road blocking the army. Then some massive cow comes and flips your car and it's gg.  Usually big units are a bad idea for beasts. We have low bravery so large units die fast. You can use that to your advantage as bait, but that's up to you. If you're talking a low model count army, then that we are not. Best bet for less than 60+ models would be to focus on either warherd or thunderscorn. Maybe support those elements with brayherd. I've had some luck with that style.

Regardless, Welcome aboard! For the Brayherd!

[Kramig]

Thank you very much to all! @TheArborealWalrus yes, that's own what I'm looking for: not low model count army, but low size unit 

Actually I love brayherds models; which "big pieces" (dragonogors, bulls, cygor, etc) are better to accompany brayherds?

Edited July 30, 2020 by Kramig

[Tasman]

9 hours ago, Kramig said:

Thank you very much to all! @TheArborealWalrus yes, that's own what I'm looking for: not low model count army, but low size unit 

Actually I love brayherds models; which "big pieces" (dragonogors, bulls, cygor, etc) are better to accompany brayherds?

Let the rule of cool guide you here.

[TheArborealWalrus]

On 7/30/2020 at 2:21 AM, Kramig said:

Actually I love brayherds models; which "big pieces" (dragonogors, bulls, cygor, etc) are better to accompany brayherds?

@Tasman is right that you can do whatever you please. Both have benefits and are similarly costed. Dragon ogors are faster and more durable but do much less damage. Bullgors are slow (for our army) with weaker armor and less wounds but have the potential to annihilate the enemy's best with ease. A dragon ogor focused list is best with no great fray (generally) while a warherd heavy army prefers darkstalkers or gavespawn.

This is usually how all armies do when making lists, choose units to fill holes in your army. Lets say you've got your brayherd guys that you want, but lack a hammer. You pick either a ghorgon or some bulls to punch the enemy. Or visa versa. The big problem for dragon ogors (in my opinion) is that they have a lot of overlap with the brayherd in purpose. Brayherd are just as fast  if not faster than DO and are similarly tanky. Bestigor are actually rather comparable to the DO in many ways. Brayherd combines best with bulls in my opinion. Centigors are extremely fast, bulls hit, and ungors grab midfield. I use the mandatory gor unit in desolating beastherd to camp home. I just like having all the different sizes of gor in my army though. It might be interesting  to combine DO and warherd together for ultra elite beast army. Haven't heard anything about that idea before. Good luck, and remember, don't be afraid to experiment! (proxies can be your friend)

For Morghur!

[Popisdead]

On 7/27/2020 at 3:00 PM, Salyx said:

You can find a lot of Beastmen goodness on Youtube. Especially Joel Mc Grath has a lot of content about Beasts of Chaos. The Youtube-channel where he publishes his battle reports is Measured Gaming and you will find an Interview with him as Brayherd Player and another Player as Warherd Player on the Beasts of Chaos Faction Focus in the AoS Coach channel. 

Basically, Joel's approach is to have a few fighty units and the Rest consists of a lot of minimum sized units for Objective grabbing and Screening. 

 

[cyberhawk94]

What do people think of Burning Sigil of Tzeentch for us? Especially in Gavespawn, I feel like it could be a pretty useful spell for us for much cheaper than Taurus

[El Antiguo Guardián]

On 8/4/2020 at 8:08 PM, Popisdead said:

 

Cool job!