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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

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Building a an Ambush based list based on the Marauding Brayherd (+1 to charge rolls when they arrive from Brayherd Ambush) battalion taking Cogs and Brayblast Trumpet Artifact (+1 to hit for friendly Brayherd units wholly within 18" that arrived via Brayherd ambush). 

Still undecided if I should go Darkwalkers or just take the CT Bestial Cunning to ambush on turn 2.  Looking for any advice on this particularly if anybody has tried it out before and what their experience was with it.

Thanks

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2 hours ago, ColsBols said:

What's the strategy behind this list? Do you do a lot of ambushing? Can you lay out a typical T1 game plan?

That heavily depends on the opponent and their army. 

 I normally Ambush 1 30 man raider unit, have Ungors just as body blockers, and Bestigors as a heavy hitter. The big thing comes from using all the bodies to stop movements to insure i get objectives. I have 1x10 man Raiders (thinking of getting more) to Pre game move for more body blocking as i like to go 2nd if i can (thats why i make sure to 1 drop, there are a lot of 2-3 drop armies right now, or at least "can" and even DoT can 1 drop too). The raiders able to Ambush and shoot, Runa nd shoot, and pregame move are really good. Being able to move 10+D6 and shoot every turn makes moving around the table and even to body block super easy. I have used that 240pt unit to just turn up, snipe a Priest/Wizard and body block objectives letting them die after that, but it wins me the game, especially if i body the objective completely even when they killed me, holding it for 2 turns.

Some examples: against;

IDK: Don't ambush anything unless objectives call for it if they are Soulscrying units and just zone him out for as long as i can, if they are not, then Ambush based on the objective. I know they are working on Turn 3 (or 2 if they reverse the tides) so it depends how aggressive they are as to what i do. But i have not lost to them yet, b.c they have limited units i can easily zone out (even their fast moving fly units) of my important units/objectives and try to kill off the Morrsarr and King if i can. I have not lost to them yet

KO: Zone out their teleports (high fly or w/e it is called now) and hope they stay in the boats, if they do then its easy win as i'll charge them and just kill off 400-1k points in 1 melee lol. Let them kill off Ungors and Raiders, I dont care, if they are being smart and not staying in the boards i'll try to kill the 2 units that deals real damage and ignore the 1/2 melee 1/2 shooting guys, the 1 insane character i'll try to kill if i can (the 15 shot guy). If you can melee this army your good.

SCE: Shooting vs i'll Ambush all Raiders but the 10man, and a Bestigor unit or 2, then if they are DSing something (like the shooting units, or Evocators) try to zone out as much as i can. Once the Shooting units and Evocators are dead just sit on objectives all game and not to worry. If they have a Stardrake just play the objective game as fast and as hard as i can.

FS: use pre game movements with some raiders again, try to shoot the 1 important hero and kill him as fast as i can, after that make sure a spawn is near and just +arks the Bestigors to kill off that insane unit.

BoK, Sit back and let him come up a little bit, then just snipe out all the Priests as soon as i can, he'll have BT points and able to charge multi Bloodthirsters after that, so set up for this (remember 6" pile ins and legal combats) making sure he can't multi charge units if he fights twice, move twice, etc.., very important movements, Blocks of raiders really helps with that. B.c no more Priests tho (and Bloodscrater) his damage is almost cut in 1/2, no +1atks, no re-rolls, etc.. B.c he went first he can not double turn me and my retaliation will hurt more than his attacks. I play against Khorne a lot, so i know the army really well now.

StD: If is Archaon i'll win np. if its 3 DP's and a Sorcerer its a lot harder, especially if its the -1 to be hit and DP's makes terrain no LoS blocking, if that is the chase the Raiders really needs to either body block very well to stop the DP's or kill everything else that not in terrain, which is what i normally do. If a DP is out of cover i'll target him right away as they are insanely good.

Seraphon: I have only fought them a few times and it is a local top player, i go for killing the heroes as fast as i can, i'll even take turn 1 to do this, as their summoning will over run me if i don't, it just comes down to can i get close enough (map deployment) and kill them, he is really good at screening my ambushing so i have to start on the table. 

NH: This really comes down to, how many 9+ charges does he make, even tho i have not lost to them yet, screen with Ungors and Raiders, try to kill the couple important heroes first, they are sad to be at our level, but honestly they need some luck otherwise they are not very good.

OBR: i have only fought them at 1k (practicing for Doubles) and i can safely say, DONT let them charge you and your good lol. Really in Gavespawn with 1 spawn supporting Bestigors you can out damage them. If they get within your Herdstone or if you get the -1 save spell off, its game over for them. If not and you don't wipe out a Mguard unit in  round its over for you. I have not fought against Crawlers either so i can't help with that. I think i would try to ambush all my raiders so the 5D weapons can't kill them as my saves are bad and 3 will go 2-3 might go through, thats 10-15D from range ouch. I am trying to get a game in with them at 2k, but the 2 players with them hasn't built 2k just yet. 

Skaven: This one is very hard for me, as the only person that plays them in my area is the top player in my area, so he wins more than i do. But its always a very good game, a game of basically who can have better placements. I can't really help you with them i feel as they are my worst match up so far. 


Over all, zoning out and timing the damage is what i do. As for him? Not 100% sure i'm guessing somewhat the same, but he had a 30man block of Bestigors where i have 5x10, so he might play differently. I have had a 10man get 81 attacks and wipe out 500pt units so i don't feel i need a 30man block, it also helps with zoning out, ambushing options, and being able to split the models is nice. I would like to here from him how he used them.

Edited by Maddpainting
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5 minutes ago, Alan Mandelson said:

Building a an Ambush based list based on the Marauding Brayherd (+1 to charge rolls when they arrive from Brayherd Ambush) battalion taking Cogs and Brayblast Trumpet Artifact (+1 to hit for friendly Brayherd units wholly within 18" that arrived via Brayherd ambush). 

Still undecided if I should go Darkwalkers or just take the CT Bestial Cunning to ambush on turn 2.  Looking for any advice on this particularly if anybody has tried it out before and what their experience was with it.

Thanks

If you are taking Bestial Cunning then just go Darkwalkers, as Darkwalkers also lets you spend CP to re-Ambush units, this is very good on some missions,a nd now you can Ambush Bullgors/Ghorgons.

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On 2/19/2020 at 12:09 PM, Hebroseph said:

I recently purchased a large lot of Tzeentch and it came with a bunch of tzaangor enlighted and skyfires. I'm already running a tzeentch list so im not really interested in running them IN tzeentch. What is your best tzaangor heavy BoC list? 

On doom and darkness they presented a boc - tzeentch list which looked interesting. 

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I'm spending so many points filling out the battalion I don't really have any points for any Warherd unless I drop the archers. Sadly also the Trumpet only works for Brayherd Ambush so Darkwalkers redeploy doesn't get any extra benefits.

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I don't think we need to go 1 drop just to match Tzeentch.  The changehost list got a pretty big nerf in terms of their alpha strike (basically can't screen the flamers now).  I think with good placement of Ungors and their pre-game move we can easily screen out the flamers so they can't reach our critical heroes or units (and even then with MSU and summoning we can afford to lose a unit or two and summon back).

In my meta (Australia) I am finding either you go 1 drop or you shift up to 4 or 5 and if not you are a "I don't care" and go 6+ drops.  With that in mind I think if the situation calls for it we can comfortably sit at 2-3 drops and still be fine.

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Sure, that guys list that was posted did a 3 drop, you don't need to take a 1 drop, but it is one of our strengths.

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A cool beasts tzeentch army created by a very good Australian player.  Also shout out to the Doom and Darkness youtube channel as he loves beasts and has some great battle reports up.

I quite like the army but I think I would look to include some gaunt summoners to bring in some horrors easily.  Quite a strong list regardless.

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So...... I have a test list just for doing this right now, i even converted 4 chariots to play them in this. WTF great minds think alike!

I wanted to try a completely different type of list than i normally play, instead of MSU units its large units and use DDing + Agendas to make units super good.

My list is

Shaggoth
Bray-Shaman
Bray-Shaman
Tzaangor Shaman

Bestigors x30
Tzaangors x10
Tzaangors x10
Centigors x5
Centigors x5
Gors x10
Gors x10
Chariots x4
Wildfire Taurus
Battalion
Edit: Took out the Ungors, added Gors, and split the Tzaangors, i felt that is better after watching his video.

Edit: He is using DO's but he can't take them as a Battleline as he is playing in DoT so he took Gors, gors are a cool idea in this i didn't even think about it so i might change my list now. I don't like DO as Centigors are better for the points for what i want (for wounds and speed) he is losing out of 5 wounds compare and lots of speed. I can understand why he likes DO, it gives him the option for more damage, for me my Centigors are 100% going to die by turn 2 lol. Personally i'm really wanted to take Tzaangors so i don't have more room, i wish i could take 10 more centigors tho.



PS here are my chariots, i just converted them last week and started to paint.

img_20200217_220247929.jpg

Edited by Maddpainting
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On 2/25/2020 at 9:24 PM, Maddpainting said:

So...... I have a test list just for doing this right now, i even converted 4 chariots to play them in this. WTF great minds think alike!

I wanted to try a completely different type of list than i normally play, instead of MSU units its large units and use DDing + Agendas to make units super good.

My list is

Shaggoth
Bray-Shaman
Bray-Shaman
Tzaangor Shaman

Bestigors x30
Tzaangors x10
Tzaangors x10
Centigors x5
Centigors x5
Gors x10
Gors x10
Chariots x4
Wildfire Taurus
Battalion
Edit: Took out the Ungors, added Gors, and split the Tzaangors, i felt that is better after watching his video.

Edit: He is using DO's but he can't take them as a Battleline as he is playing in DoT so he took Gors, gors are a cool idea in this i didn't even think about it so i might change my list now. I don't like DO as Centigors are better for the points for what i want (for wounds and speed) he is losing out of 5 wounds compare and lots of speed. I can understand why he likes DO, it gives him the option for more damage, for me my Centigors are 100% going to die by turn 2 lol. Personally i'm really wanted to take Tzaangors so i don't have more room, i wish i could take 10 more centigors tho.

My issue with big units is always that it helps your opponent focus fire and also gives them the most bang for their buck for mortal wounds abilities.  I feel like turn 1 those Bestigors are going to get shredded by their entire army and then the rest of the force can be cleaned up fairly easily.  I could be wrong and I honestly don't know how well Tzeentch changes the effectiveness of our units.  I also personally think taking a gaunt summoner is a must in a tzeentch list as getting those free pink horrors is just too good to pass up and can really cause your opponent havoc.

Can you fit any Enlightened on disc in the list?  I think a 6-9 man blob + 30 Bestigors is a disgusting set of hammers and we can fill the rest of the army with chaff to fill the anvil role nicely.  I agree on the DO, they are really disappointing for their points

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The purpose was to gain more benefits from Duplicitous. A 40 wounds of Tzaangors with shields locking down multi units with Centigors and chariots backing them, combine those with Arcane Suggestion for -1 hit and wounds, then add in the Taurus and you are super survivable. Using Agenda's with DD to charge the 30 block in to clean up, the 30 block is nicer than Enlightens b.c it is a 30 block, thats a huge footprint (Reckless Abandon + DD dice means 9+" charge and +1atks rest of the game). 

Something i am now thinking about (I wanted the Tzaangors for theme and b.c 2 saves, but really its 90pts for 10 wounds with a 5+/6+++ that also can heal D3  back into them, where Gors are cheaper and are 4+ per wound. I might just take out the Tzaangors completely for more Gors, like a 30 block and 10 block. I wanted the 4+ save and larger bases for more foot print, otherwise i would just take Ungors.

So my new theory list is this:

Shaggoth
Bray-Shaman
Tzaangor Shaman

Bestigors x30
Gors x30
Gors x10
Gors x10
Chariots x4
Centigors x10
Dragon Ogres x6
Wildfire Taurus
Battalion

DO b.c the Shaggoth spell and Agenda Overthrow Leader, Centigors now in a 10 man b.c i have more bodies on the table combine with Agenda option Tides of Anarchy. Took out 1 caster b.c the movement is nice and so it the summoning, but i needed the points and both Shamans 90% the time can't use Devolve, but i might change this back to 2 shamans b.c i like Mystic + another option spell from realms, i just don't think i'll need the 4th spell a lot, it is still summon a unit turn 3 if my opponent doesn't cast with or without the 4th shaman, so something else to think about. The bonus extra 3" aura to move is what i'll miss the most. I could take out the Shaggoth, but i have a Tzeentch one that i like to play and he works get in Duplicitous (3+ save woot!)

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On 2/10/2020 at 3:11 PM, Death1942 said:

The problem I see is if something is not optimal in an army that isn't exactly top tier then you are shooting yourself in the foot by taking it.  A shame because I love the model and I want it to be good but why carry more of a burden than you need to?  I think going forward I will simply replace it with more Bestigor once I try the list out a few times.

Keep in mind not everyone here is looking for top tier gaming.  some people don't play tournaments and they are looking for combos, or just experience from other gamers for friendly competitive games.  

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Hey all, I'm definitely in the semi-competitive/friendly camp.
Still pretty new and building my army up from 1k points to get some bigger games soon.
I'm also trying to keep the Beasts of Chaos allegiance instead of shifting to the battalions and other books.

I've been thinking of building towards this for my 2k list, it has Be'Lakor as an ally to try and pump up the power level a bit.
I also really like the idea of the Chaos Gargant being able to snipe out the Ossiarch Bonereaper squad leaders at pile in stage to deny them their reroll saves.
Anyway, here's the list. Let me know if there's anything you would change!

++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Chaos - Beasts of Chaos) [1,990pts] ++
+ Allegiance +
. Beasts of Chaos: Gavespawn
+ Uncategorised +
Herdstone

+ Leader +
Be'lakor [240pts]

+ Behemoth +
Chaos Gargant [170pts]

+ Battalion +
Desolating Beastherd [1,500pts]:
. Beastlord: General, Mutating Gnarlblade, Unravelling Aura

. Bestigors: 30 Bestigors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns

. Bestigors: 10 Bestigors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns

. Bestigors: 10 Bestigors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns

. Gors: 10 Gors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns, Gor Blade and Beastshield

. Gors: 10 Gors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns, Gor Blade and Beastshield

. Great Bray-shaman: Vicious Stranglethorns, The Knowing Eye

. Great Bray-shaman: Wild Rampage

. Ungor Raiders: 30 Ungor Raiders, Banner bearers, Brayhorns

. Ungor Raiders: 10 Ungor Raiders, Banner bearers, Brayhorns

. Ungors: 10 Ungors, Banner bearers, Brayhorns, Gnarled Shortspears

+ Malign Sorcery +
Endless Spell: Wildfire Taurus [80pts]
++ Total: [1,990pts] ++

Edited by The Decay

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So the new Seraphon terrain piece impacts our terrain too.  Might have to either use a beefier hero for sacrifices or maybe take 20 ungor instead of 10 to generate those points.

 

Also has anyone converted chariots from the chaos chariot kit?  Tempted to do it but not sure if simple head swaps and maybe chucking a gor on the back would look good or if you need to mix our chariot kit with it.

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Just take a Doombull, 100pts 8 wounds. It already was one of the better to use for saving points.

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On 3/5/2020 at 11:31 AM, Death1942 said:

So the new Seraphon terrain piece impacts our terrain too.  Might have to either use a beefier hero for sacrifices or maybe take 20 ungor instead of 10 to generate those points.

 

Also has anyone converted chariots from the chaos chariot kit?  Tempted to do it but not sure if simple head swaps and maybe chucking a gor on the back would look good or if you need to mix our chariot kit with it.

I've converted a chariot from the StD version and some Savage Orc Boarboys and can catergorically say that I regret only doing head swaps for the crew.

The bodies of the Chosen and Marauder are properly diferentiated for the Bestigor and Ungor but the poses are far too "human" and not dynamic enough for the children of entropy.

Also the chariot body could have done with a bit more work to make it look less pristine and more feral. A couple of dozen skulls would have gone a long way I think.

The boars are rad though!

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5 hours ago, thebloody9 said:

I've converted a chariot from the StD version and some Savage Orc Boarboys and can catergorically say that I regret only doing head swaps for the crew.

The bodies of the Chosen and Marauder are properly diferentiated for the Bestigor and Ungor but the poses are far too "human" and not dynamic enough for the children of entropy.

Also the chariot body could have done with a bit more work to make it look less pristine and more feral. A couple of dozen skulls would have gone a long way I think.

The boars are rad though!

Unfortunately you’d still have to buy a different base as our chariots have smaller bases if I remember correctly. I’ve been doing a conversion that has been looking nice so far.

On the herdstone problems though, if you run a Shaggoth and a unit of dragon ogres, you’ll be fine if you just keep healing. Another one for use is the life swarm if you’re that worried.

As an army we’re in a nice place where we’re so close to the edge in terms of competitive games that most people don’t understand (or care) about our summoning until it’s too late.

just send a goat-meat missile into the slann or whoever is hiding in plain sight on a pyramid.

FC227A1F-F668-48EC-A4A7-626ED0F07A18.jpeg

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Hey all. I recently tried getting into Tzeentch using a Phantasmagoria army, but didn't really enjoy how it played. So I'm not considering tweaking the army and using it as a Beasts of Chaos force, see if that suits me any better.

This is the list I would run. What do people think? Is it terrible or has it got merit?

 

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos

Leaders:
Tzaangor Shaman
- General
Trait: Oracle or the Dark Tongue
Spell: Tendrils of Atrophy

Great Bray-Shaman
Spell: Vicious Strangethorns
Artefact: The Knowing Eye

Grashrak Fellhoof
Spell: Savage Dominion


Battleline:
Gors x30
Ungors x10
Ungors x10

Others:
Tzaangor Enlightened x9
Tzaangor Skyfires x6
Grashrak's Despoilers
Ungor Raiders x10
Ungor Raiders x10

Endless Spells:
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh
Doomblast Dirgehorn

Extra Command Point

Total points: 1970

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Posted (edited)

You have a hyper elite army, its basically 3 units and heroes with bubble wrap, you'll really need to make sure everything counts so no wasted traits, etc..

Honestly, i would take a greatfray, that this isn't good at all. And if you like Enlighten then gavespawn is even better b.c +1atks goes with all your weapon profiles. But you could as well do Darkwalkers or Allherd, they have their place for sure.

If you don't want a Greatfray thats fine, but takeout 
Oracle or the Dark Tongue, a basic -1Bravery is terrible if you can't stack it 3-4x.  Malevolent Despoiler is 100x better for a 12 aura vs enemy trait (take away cover, thats +16.7% more damage basically).

Also your games are going to be very bloody lol, so don't be shock by that.

Edited by Maddpainting
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What are some good razorgor proxies?  I'm not a huge fan of the official model, but would like to try playing the bacon missiles!  I think Gore-gruntas pigs would probably work, but they're definitely on the pricey side for a proxy model.  Bonesplitter pigs could work too, but those are slightly small. Any suggestions?  Am I being too picky?

 

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5 minutes ago, willange said:

What are some good razorgor proxies?  I'm not a huge fan of the official model, but would like to try playing the bacon missiles!  I think Gore-gruntas pigs would probably work, but they're definitely on the pricey side for a proxy model.  Bonesplitter pigs could work too, but those are slightly small. Any suggestions?  Am I being too picky?

 

https://mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_dkl_fmr_blr_bst_350_000

 

Be picky and pick up those. If you're patient, Mierce has rolling promotions that can make the purchase much more reasonably priced. 

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13 hours ago, decker_cky said:

https://mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_dkl_fmr_blr_bst_350_000

 

Be picky and pick up those. If you're patient, Mierce has rolling promotions that can make the purchase much more reasonably priced. 

I have 4 of these and they are very nice piglets.  Definitely worth to get! Just wait until Mierce has one of their discount promotions. They tend to do things like buy 1 unit get +1  for free, or 50% specific unit type etc etc.

It makes one wonder how the heck did someone in GW come up with that hideous sculpt called razorgor, that spawned endless memes. It should be replaced hopefully soon after all these years. Especially since they have so many nice looking boars for Orcs these days. But I get it, Beastmen dont get any love for the most part for whatever reason.

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Posted (edited)

Well the Razorgor is over 25yrs old and made out of metal. 

Miniatures honestly has only started to really advance in the past 10yrs, before that it was all hand sculpt with 80's themed artist. Look at the old chaos spawn, or old Chaos warriors lol, they basically are 1st ed D&D style (Or is it 2nd edition? I think 2nd now that i'm remembering more, b.c that was with Ravenloft too i think?)

 

Edited by Maddpainting

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On 3/12/2020 at 5:04 AM, Maddpainting said:

Well the Razorgor is over 25yrs old and made out of metal. 

 

or 10 :P

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Popisdead said:

or 10 :P

Sorry... honestly still used to the chariot being called that because it used to be called a Razorgor Chariot for a long time. It wasn't till 2010's release the actual razorgor was a model.  When it came out people called them suicide pigs and the name ever stuck, so i still see razorgors as the chariots. Thats why i always just say chariot now to try to break that habbit.

I do miss a real suicide pig, but now the spawns are so much better at it lol

Edited by Maddpainting

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