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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

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1 minute ago, smartazjb0y said:

So you're choosing to eat the cost of those units, just to go first? 

The despoilers are free. Its the Character that is 140. So if I needed to, yeah I'd be out 5 ablative wounds to Grashrek but if my strategy implored I choose turn order It might be worth it. Whether its legal is another question. 

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18 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

They set up seperate from the character. They are two seperate units. Is there a rule that says I MUST deploy all my units?

What?! Of course you must deploy the units included in your list, it's not ok to alter what you bring to the table to "go first". 

And putting a unit in ambush is still a drop! 

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3 minutes ago, smartazjb0y said:

Well no they're not free, the points cost just applies to all of them together. It's probably a minor points cost overall, but it's still a points cost (i.e. if they separated out the units, they'd each have points cost that add up to 140). 

This is incorrect. Grashrek is 140. The despoilers are free, but MUST be taken with Grashrek. Although they are separate units. 

 

4 minutes ago, Sauriv said:

What?! Of course you must deploy the units included in your list, it's not ok to alter what you bring to the table to "go first". 

And putting a unit in ambush is still a drop! 

Where is this specified? It is not altering anything. Where in the rules is it specified I must deploy what I have on my list? I wouldnt be ambushing anything. I would simply not deploy them at all. 

Edited by sal4m4nd3r

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3 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

This is incorrect. Grashrek is 140. The despoilers are free, but MUST be taken with Grashrek. Although they are separate units. 

That's semantics though, if you have to take them and they can't be taken separately, and the only cost is a combined cost, then...well, it's still wasted, you're still eating the cost. Because you can't take them separately, the cost of the despoilers is baked into the 140 regardless of what the WSB says...because you have to take them. 

Edited by smartazjb0y
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1 minute ago, smartazjb0y said:

That's semantics though, if you have to take them and they can't be taken separately, and the only cost is a combined cost, then...well, it's still wasted, you're still eating the cost. Because you can't take them separately, the cost of the despoilers is baked into the 140 regardless of what the WSB says...because you have to take them. 

I don't have to take the unit if I pay for Grashrek. I must take grashrek, if I take the despoilers. But sure.. you win. I would be eating 20-40 points in order to outdrop my opponent. I ahve yet to hear an argument that says I CANT if I want to. 

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1 hour ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Where is this specified? It is not altering anything. Where in the rules is it specified I must deploy what I have on my list? I wouldnt be ambushing anything. I would simply not deploy them at all. 

I have a hard time to know where to begin. This is some core concepts you are questioning. I will put images as spoilers to reduce the size this post 

For setting up the units that you include in your list i would refer you to the pitched battle from GHB19

Spoiler

2.jpg.3ab731e17728f41a63d20b8b359952c0.jpg

If you don't deploy what you have included in your list your list isn't valid anymore. your opponent should be able to look at your list and know how many drops you have and plan accordingly. With your version I could "not place" my unit of bullgors when i know i play against Slaanesh for not wanting to give away depravity points, how wouldn't  this be cheating?

 

For counting ambushing unit as dops we can first look at the set-up rules from the battleplans:

Spoiler

3.jpg.3ae4fd9b3b2a5fcf1fd8c4e8ac277be8.jpg

Here you have to agree that each player goes back and forth "setting up units". Next up we can look at the ambushing rule.

Spoiler

4.jpg.dcd21149dc39f46eccc120d3e2c31dc2.jpg

Instead of "Setting up a (breyherd) unit" normally on the battlefield you instead place it to the side and say it's in ambush. the ordinary set-up action is the same as when you use the ambush ability, it's only where you place the unit that has changes.

If this doesn't convince you i challenge you to give me any references that suggest that this isn't the case. 

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I never once suggested ambushing them later. I don’t know where that came from.  I understand the idea of not setting up a unit is a little out there..tossing around the word cheating is a little hyperbolic. I was just asking for thoughts. Especially for a unit that is essentially free. 

Didnt mean to rustle people’s jimmies. 

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8 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

I never once suggested ambushing them later. I don’t know where that came from.  I understand the idea of not setting up a unit is a little out there..tossing around the word cheating is a little hyperbolic. I was just asking for thoughts. Especially for a unit that is essentially free. 

Didnt mean to rustle people’s jimmies. 

I think there's nothing that explicitly says you can or cannot do what you're suggesting; there's no language like in the melee attacks that says "every unit that can attack MUST attack." But I'd say it's probably against the spirit of the game and would probably be the type of thing that your opponent would feel is wrong.  I'd venture to guess if someone sent in an email to GW they'd clarify that in a FAQ that you can't do what you're suggesting. 

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There is 1 battalion he can go in, just not his unit. The unit is taken together not matter what.


EDIT" "These units must be taken as a set for a total of 140 points. Although taken as a set, each is a  separate unit"

Edited by Maddpainting

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11 hours ago, smartazjb0y said:

I think there's nothing that explicitly says you can or cannot do what you're suggesting; there's no language like in the melee attacks that says "every unit that can attack MUST attack." But I'd say it's probably against the spirit of the game and would probably be the type of thing that your opponent would feel is wrong.  I'd venture to guess if someone sent in an email to GW they'd clarify that in a FAQ that you can't do what you're suggesting. 

There actually is language in the rules that forces you to attack if you are within range of the enemy in melee. 

 

 

capture.jpg

Edited by sal4m4nd3r

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45 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

There actually is language in the rules that forces you to attack if you are within range of the enemy in melee. 

 

 

capture.jpg

I don't think you understood me, because that's exactly what I said...

"there's no language like in the melee attacks that says "every unit that can attack MUST attack." 

My point was, the melee attacks specifically has language that says every unit that can attack must attack, but that specific language does not exist for army setup. 

Edited by smartazjb0y
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There is also no rules that says i cant flip the table, but doesn't mean i can no say "when i lose i am allowed to table flip" just b.c a rule doesn't explicitly say you can't do it, doesn't give you the ok to do that.

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On 6/22/2018 at 1:25 PM, decker_cky said:

Good catch - misread that on the screen capture I had. 

My list total is still right because I noticed I only included points for 4 chariots.  300 pt bestigors is awesome though - that's got to be one of the best point for point damage output units in the game and opens up wildstalker lists like this: 

30 gors 210
30 gors 210
10 gors 80
10 ungors 60
10 ungors 60
10 raiders 80
10 raiders 80
3 x 1 chariot  120
beastlord  90
gbs  100
gbs  100
wildstalker brayherd   210
30 bestigors   300
30 bestigors   300
Total  2000

Sorry that this is super late. But I keep seeing people post about windstalker brayherd. What do you mean by this?

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It an old battalion, it's no longer legal to play. Its a old 1.0 rule that has been gone for some time now.

Edit: I think if you play 100% Brayherds you might still be able to play it (that means no chaos allegiances or Beast of chaos allegiances rules that also means no new warscrolls like the herdstone, or tzaangors, etc..)  but only for open play.

GH2 completely wiped out any units from that all book from match play.


PS, if we had that aura i would 100% take it, +1 attacks and re-roll wounds of 1 aura on a BL, just insane!

Edit 2: I also REALLY miss my Wargor Standard Bearer, he wasnt very good, but i have the model and its an awesome model, i really wish we could have a character banner again.

Edited by Maddpainting
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What things can I take guys to make the hit rolls better on a unit of Bullgors?

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7 minutes ago, Budda said:

What things can I take guys to make the hit rolls better on a unit of Bullgors?

In BoC allegiance only Grashrak. You can also ally in a Chaos Sorcerer Lord for rerolls 1's to hit, but I'm not sure he's worth the cost.

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8 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

In BoC allegiance only Grashrak. You can also ally in a Chaos Sorcerer Lord for rerolls 1's to hit, but I'm not sure he's worth the cost.

Khorne battalion rerolls 1's too. 

But chaos has very few action bonuses to hit.

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Hi guys, I have a question, my friends try to play competitively beast of chaos, which are your advise and combo for this army. 

If you now any sites or articles about this will be a pleasure if you link it

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ymmv but from trial and error I think the most competitive options: gavespawn - the artefact is great on a beastload but the 2up heroes turn into spawns when they die is the real value for keeping units tied in combat. Desolating beastherd is a cheap battalion to lower your drop count and great with large units of ambushed raiders which also benefit from rerolling hits of 1 and 2. The wildfire taurus is the first thing in my list as it protects against double turns and can help units with poor defense (bullgors!), the tzaangor shaman's potion is useful here if you absolutely have to successfully cast it in a particular turn. Summoning chariots is cheap and the reroll charges gives them a ~ 50% of getting a charge in when they arrive. Have plenty of chaff in the army and available for summoning to dominate space and clog up objectives. Also don't try to kill everything and play the objectives.

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Hi all,

 

what´s the deal with Ungor Raiders? I see them in many lists and there is some talking about making them better in Gavespawn lists, but reading through my Battletome I can´t hardly find a reason to use them. What do I overlook?

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7 minutes ago, Hannibal said:

Hi all,

 

what´s the deal with Ungor Raiders? I see them in many lists and there is some talking about making them better in Gavespawn lists, but reading through my Battletome I can´t hardly find a reason to use them. What do I overlook?

Ungor raiders serve a couple of different purposes. With their shooting they have the ability to thin out enemy units or mass shoot a wizard to death.

With the before game movement (and the banner) they can act as offensive screens that force your opponent to move around them with a +3” to their movement. (Can’t move within 3” of an enemy unit)

Third, in ambush, they will always be able to attack whether or not you make a charge.

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I agree with all of the above plus - they can run and shoot so their threat range is massive and the rerolling 1s and 2s in large units means you get a lot of hits. Sadly no rend makes these better on poorly armoured targets.

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On 11/25/2019 at 12:49 PM, Hannibal said:

Hi all,

 

what´s the deal with Ungor Raiders? I see them in many lists and there is some talking about making them better in Gavespawn lists, but reading through my Battletome I can´t hardly find a reason to use them. What do I overlook?

I have not seen anyone says this, kinda odd to me. Raiders works mostly the same in all lists other than Darkwalkers with Desolating herd.

Edited by Maddpainting
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I played a khorne player earlier this week and he placed his skull altar right up at the edge of my territory. I've had the same with a gloomspite gitz loonshrine. Is it just our herdstone that needs to be 12" from enemy territory? I tried searching about this but i cant find anything conclusive and i assume its tucked away in their batteltomes.

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