sal4m4nd3r Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 minute ago, smartazjb0y said: So you're choosing to eat the cost of those units, just to go first? The despoilers are free. Its the Character that is 140. So if I needed to, yeah I'd be out 5 ablative wounds to Grashrek but if my strategy implored I choose turn order It might be worth it. Whether its legal is another question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sauriv Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 18 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said: They set up seperate from the character. They are two seperate units. Is there a rule that says I MUST deploy all my units? What?! Of course you must deploy the units included in your list, it's not ok to alter what you bring to the table to "go first". And putting a unit in ambush is still a drop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartazjb0y Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) Nvm Edited November 14, 2019 by smartazjb0y Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal4m4nd3r Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, smartazjb0y said: Well no they're not free, the points cost just applies to all of them together. It's probably a minor points cost overall, but it's still a points cost (i.e. if they separated out the units, they'd each have points cost that add up to 140). This is incorrect. Grashrek is 140. The despoilers are free, but MUST be taken with Grashrek. Although they are separate units. 4 minutes ago, Sauriv said: What?! Of course you must deploy the units included in your list, it's not ok to alter what you bring to the table to "go first". And putting a unit in ambush is still a drop! Where is this specified? It is not altering anything. Where in the rules is it specified I must deploy what I have on my list? I wouldnt be ambushing anything. I would simply not deploy them at all. Edited November 14, 2019 by sal4m4nd3r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartazjb0y Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said: This is incorrect. Grashrek is 140. The despoilers are free, but MUST be taken with Grashrek. Although they are separate units. That's semantics though, if you have to take them and they can't be taken separately, and the only cost is a combined cost, then...well, it's still wasted, you're still eating the cost. Because you can't take them separately, the cost of the despoilers is baked into the 140 regardless of what the WSB says...because you have to take them. Edited November 14, 2019 by smartazjb0y 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal4m4nd3r Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 minute ago, smartazjb0y said: That's semantics though, if you have to take them and they can't be taken separately, and the only cost is a combined cost, then...well, it's still wasted, you're still eating the cost. Because you can't take them separately, the cost of the despoilers is baked into the 140 regardless of what the WSB says...because you have to take them. I don't have to take the unit if I pay for Grashrek. I must take grashrek, if I take the despoilers. But sure.. you win. I would be eating 20-40 points in order to outdrop my opponent. I ahve yet to hear an argument that says I CANT if I want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sauriv Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 1 hour ago, sal4m4nd3r said: Where is this specified? It is not altering anything. Where in the rules is it specified I must deploy what I have on my list? I wouldnt be ambushing anything. I would simply not deploy them at all. I have a hard time to know where to begin. This is some core concepts you are questioning. I will put images as spoilers to reduce the size this post For setting up the units that you include in your list i would refer you to the pitched battle from GHB19 Spoiler If you don't deploy what you have included in your list your list isn't valid anymore. your opponent should be able to look at your list and know how many drops you have and plan accordingly. With your version I could "not place" my unit of bullgors when i know i play against Slaanesh for not wanting to give away depravity points, how wouldn't this be cheating? For counting ambushing unit as dops we can first look at the set-up rules from the battleplans: Spoiler Here you have to agree that each player goes back and forth "setting up units". Next up we can look at the ambushing rule. Spoiler Instead of "Setting up a (breyherd) unit" normally on the battlefield you instead place it to the side and say it's in ambush. the ordinary set-up action is the same as when you use the ambush ability, it's only where you place the unit that has changes. If this doesn't convince you i challenge you to give me any references that suggest that this isn't the case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal4m4nd3r Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 I never once suggested ambushing them later. I don’t know where that came from. I understand the idea of not setting up a unit is a little out there..tossing around the word cheating is a little hyperbolic. I was just asking for thoughts. Especially for a unit that is essentially free. Didnt mean to rustle people’s jimmies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartazjb0y Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 8 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said: I never once suggested ambushing them later. I don’t know where that came from. I understand the idea of not setting up a unit is a little out there..tossing around the word cheating is a little hyperbolic. I was just asking for thoughts. Especially for a unit that is essentially free. Didnt mean to rustle people’s jimmies. I think there's nothing that explicitly says you can or cannot do what you're suggesting; there's no language like in the melee attacks that says "every unit that can attack MUST attack." But I'd say it's probably against the spirit of the game and would probably be the type of thing that your opponent would feel is wrong. I'd venture to guess if someone sent in an email to GW they'd clarify that in a FAQ that you can't do what you're suggesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) There is 1 battalion he can go in, just not his unit. The unit is taken together not matter what. EDIT" "These units must be taken as a set for a total of 140 points. Although taken as a set, each is a separate unit" Edited November 15, 2019 by Maddpainting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sal4m4nd3r Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, smartazjb0y said: I think there's nothing that explicitly says you can or cannot do what you're suggesting; there's no language like in the melee attacks that says "every unit that can attack MUST attack." But I'd say it's probably against the spirit of the game and would probably be the type of thing that your opponent would feel is wrong. I'd venture to guess if someone sent in an email to GW they'd clarify that in a FAQ that you can't do what you're suggesting. There actually is language in the rules that forces you to attack if you are within range of the enemy in melee. Edited November 15, 2019 by sal4m4nd3r Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smartazjb0y Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said: There actually is language in the rules that forces you to attack if you are within range of the enemy in melee. I don't think you understood me, because that's exactly what I said... "there's no language like in the melee attacks that says "every unit that can attack MUST attack." My point was, the melee attacks specifically has language that says every unit that can attack must attack, but that specific language does not exist for army setup. Edited November 15, 2019 by smartazjb0y 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 There is also no rules that says i cant flip the table, but doesn't mean i can no say "when i lose i am allowed to table flip" just b.c a rule doesn't explicitly say you can't do it, doesn't give you the ok to do that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven2129 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 On 6/22/2018 at 1:25 PM, decker_cky said: Good catch - misread that on the screen capture I had. My list total is still right because I noticed I only included points for 4 chariots. 300 pt bestigors is awesome though - that's got to be one of the best point for point damage output units in the game and opens up wildstalker lists like this: 30 gors 210 30 gors 210 10 gors 80 10 ungors 60 10 ungors 60 10 raiders 80 10 raiders 80 3 x 1 chariot 120 beastlord 90 gbs 100 gbs 100 wildstalker brayherd 210 30 bestigors 300 30 bestigors 300 Total 2000 Sorry that this is super late. But I keep seeing people post about windstalker brayherd. What do you mean by this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 (edited) It an old battalion, it's no longer legal to play. Its a old 1.0 rule that has been gone for some time now. Edit: I think if you play 100% Brayherds you might still be able to play it (that means no chaos allegiances or Beast of chaos allegiances rules that also means no new warscrolls like the herdstone, or tzaangors, etc..) but only for open play. GH2 completely wiped out any units from that all book from match play. PS, if we had that aura i would 100% take it, +1 attacks and re-roll wounds of 1 aura on a BL, just insane! Edit 2: I also REALLY miss my Wargor Standard Bearer, he wasnt very good, but i have the model and its an awesome model, i really wish we could have a character banner again. Edited November 20, 2019 by Maddpainting 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budda Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 What things can I take guys to make the hit rolls better on a unit of Bullgors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Yellow_Sign Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Budda said: What things can I take guys to make the hit rolls better on a unit of Bullgors? In BoC allegiance only Grashrak. You can also ally in a Chaos Sorcerer Lord for rerolls 1's to hit, but I'm not sure he's worth the cost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 8 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said: In BoC allegiance only Grashrak. You can also ally in a Chaos Sorcerer Lord for rerolls 1's to hit, but I'm not sure he's worth the cost. Khorne battalion rerolls 1's too. But chaos has very few action bonuses to hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop3 Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Hi guys, I have a question, my friends try to play competitively beast of chaos, which are your advise and combo for this army. If you now any sites or articles about this will be a pleasure if you link it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forehead Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 ymmv but from trial and error I think the most competitive options: gavespawn - the artefact is great on a beastload but the 2up heroes turn into spawns when they die is the real value for keeping units tied in combat. Desolating beastherd is a cheap battalion to lower your drop count and great with large units of ambushed raiders which also benefit from rerolling hits of 1 and 2. The wildfire taurus is the first thing in my list as it protects against double turns and can help units with poor defense (bullgors!), the tzaangor shaman's potion is useful here if you absolutely have to successfully cast it in a particular turn. Summoning chariots is cheap and the reroll charges gives them a ~ 50% of getting a charge in when they arrive. Have plenty of chaff in the army and available for summoning to dominate space and clog up objectives. Also don't try to kill everything and play the objectives. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannibal Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 Hi all, what´s the deal with Ungor Raiders? I see them in many lists and there is some talking about making them better in Gavespawn lists, but reading through my Battletome I can´t hardly find a reason to use them. What do I overlook? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derptau Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Hannibal said: Hi all, what´s the deal with Ungor Raiders? I see them in many lists and there is some talking about making them better in Gavespawn lists, but reading through my Battletome I can´t hardly find a reason to use them. What do I overlook? Ungor raiders serve a couple of different purposes. With their shooting they have the ability to thin out enemy units or mass shoot a wizard to death. With the before game movement (and the banner) they can act as offensive screens that force your opponent to move around them with a +3” to their movement. (Can’t move within 3” of an enemy unit) Third, in ambush, they will always be able to attack whether or not you make a charge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forehead Posted November 25, 2019 Share Posted November 25, 2019 I agree with all of the above plus - they can run and shoot so their threat range is massive and the rerolling 1s and 2s in large units means you get a lot of hits. Sadly no rend makes these better on poorly armoured targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddpainting Posted November 26, 2019 Share Posted November 26, 2019 (edited) On 11/25/2019 at 12:49 PM, Hannibal said: Hi all, what´s the deal with Ungor Raiders? I see them in many lists and there is some talking about making them better in Gavespawn lists, but reading through my Battletome I can´t hardly find a reason to use them. What do I overlook? I have not seen anyone says this, kinda odd to me. Raiders works mostly the same in all lists other than Darkwalkers with Desolating herd. Edited November 26, 2019 by Maddpainting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forehead Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I played a khorne player earlier this week and he placed his skull altar right up at the edge of my territory. I've had the same with a gloomspite gitz loonshrine. Is it just our herdstone that needs to be 12" from enemy territory? I tried searching about this but i cant find anything conclusive and i assume its tucked away in their batteltomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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