AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Myrdin]

Just thought I` d give you guys who are looking for alternative miniatures to the Bullgors a shout out.

Just got a newsletter from Mierce Mini whom have a "buy one, get one free" promotion, starting, where if you buy any monstrous infantry type unit from their store you get one additional of your choosing for free (if the price is same or less than the one you are buying).

Thats a pretty darn good deal,  as these guys make some amazing miniatures. I myself already have some 12-15 of their Minotaurs, which look amazing and have more realistic body proportions.

They also have Bear/Hippo/Dromedar/Serpent/Rhino and several other amazing looking Beastmen of the Monster Inf. scale, great if you want some animal variety in your army.

Since MM has a bit higher prices (though granted GW is catching up slowly but steadily with each new release...) this promotion makes it a great deal since you are essentially buying at 50% off if you take 2 units.

Edited June 27, 2019 by Myrdin

[decker_cky]

8 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Just thought I` d give you guys who are looking for alternative miniatures to the Bullgors a shout out.

Just got a newsletter from Mierce Mini whom have a "buy one, get one free" promotion, starting, where if you buy any monstrous infantry type unit from their store you get one additional of your choosing for free (if the price is same or less than the one you are buying).

Thats a pretty darn good deal,  as these guys make some amazing miniatures. I myself already have some 12-15 of their Minotaurs, which look amazing and have more realistic body proportions.

They also have Bear/Hippo/Dromedar/Serpent/Rhino and several other amazing looking Beastmen of the Monster Inf. scale, great if you want some animal variety in your army.

Since MM has a bit higher prices (though granted GW is catching up slowly but steadily with each new release...) this promotion makes it a great deal since you are essentially buying at 50% off if you take 2 units.

Doubling up on the Tarvax Starter Host (2x5 bullgor, 2 doombulls and 2 ghorgons for £129.99) is a pretty killed deal: https://mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_dkl_fmr_blr_ess_340_000

Worth noting that the mierce bullgor unfortunately don't have a musician.

 

From the promotion: 

Quote

 

How do I choose the free monstrous infantry unit?

All you need to do is purchase a monstrous infantry unit or host, and when you go through the basket simply input which free monstrous infantry unit you'd like in the "special instructions" box. The only qualification is that this monstrous infantry unit or host must be one from the list below, and it must be either cheaper than or equal in price to the monstrous infantry unit or host you are purchasing! As well as that, you can purchase as many monstrous infantry units or hosts as you'd like and you'll still get a free monstrous infantry unit or host for each one!

PLEASE DO NOT USE ANY VOUCHER CODES. Any orders using voucher codes will be rejected and refunded to your Moneyback. Tiered discounts do not apply this time around, either.

 

 

 

[swarmofseals]

@Myrdin @decker_cky does the newsletter say how long this promotion is on for? It's not mentioned on their website as far as I can tell.

[decker_cky]

Midnight (gmt) on July 8

[Great Bray Tom]

Hi guys! 

I've just started playing Age of Sigmar (or Warhammer in general..) about 5 weeks ago, When reviewing all the armies I instantly fell in love with the way Beasts of Chaos looks on the battlefield. Now, a couple weeks in, I have some doubts about the competitiveness of the army but I still want to give it a shot. 

I was hoping to get some tips from you guys. Right now this is my 2.000 point list, below I have added the units I also have in my collection just so you guys can give me some pointers. 

As I said I just started playing so I have zero experience to what's good or bad. The list is purely based on reading the Battletomes and some online reviews and filling in the blank spots myself. I have my first tournament in a couple of weeks so that's why I decided to join the forum and ask you guys :).

I started off purchasing a Start Collecting Box and browsing the internet for people selling off their units/armies. Took off all the paint and am now repainting everything myself. That's how I tried to get some cheap stuff. I also purchased some random sprues to assemble and practice painting on before starting off with my main army. Right now the list I assembled looks like this:

Total points: 1980/2000
Warscroll Battalions:
- Desolating Beastherd (* for units part of the battalion, did this from the top of my head so I can be mistaken)
Greatfray:
- Allherd

+1 Command point
 

Leaders:
1 Doombull (general)*
- Blade of the Desecrator
- Dominator
1 Great Bray-Shaman*
- Titanic Fur
1 Great Bray-Shaman*
- Vicious Stranglethorns
- The Knowing Eye

Battlelines:
6 Bullgor*
- Warherd Banner
- Warherd Drummer
- Great Axe
6 Bullgor*
- Warherd Banner
- Warherd Drummer
- Great Axe
30 Gors*
- Banner
- Brayhorn

Behemoths:
- Ghorgon*
- Chimera
- Cygor

Not using but also owned:
- Dragon Ogor Shaggoth
- 20 Bestigor (used for summoning)
- 20 Ungor with spears (used for summoning)
- 10 Ungor with Blades (used for summoning)
- Great Bray-Shaman

Please shoot! I still have to purchase some Chaos Spawns for summoning purposes. 

Thanks in advance guys! And take it a little easy on my please :).

 

 

[Myrdin]

@Great Bray Tom

As for my, I would  swap those Gors for 1x10 Bestigors

Use the remaning points to get a two units of ungors for objective holding.

Place your Herdstone close to an objective if possible (there are scenarios where you know where the objectives are, others you do not), The Shaman will hold the objective while sacrificing on unit of ungors for summoning points. The other should hunker down around the second objective you plan to hold. Use Bestigors to threaten around your weak side.

Also the monster mesh, while it gets a +1 for cool factor, is a lot of points tied into fragile monsters. One of them will die before it gets to combat. Most likely the Chimera. Gorghon willbe focused next. I would drop he Cygor and get Dragon Ogors, who for less points are more efficient.

Depending on how many points are left over you can considering adding units or upgrading some of them into better ones (as in instead of 1 unit of ungors you add the extra points and got with 1 unit of Bestigors), or maybe looking into an Andless Spell.

Also - Titanic fury is really only usable with the Chimera. The spell is not great as it adds attacks for weapon profiles. Great for Chimera, bad for all the other big guys. If you still want a spell to invest into the big Gribblies, go with the -1Save Reroll To Wound rolls. The big mosnters will be focused fired anyway, so the amount of attacks will drop regardless due to the Wound chart, but unlike Titanic fury its less Chimera oriented, and can be used on pretty much anything in the army.

[Great Bray Tom]

7 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

@Great Bray Tom

As for my, I would  swap those Gors for 1x10 Bestigors

Use the remaning points to get a two units of ungors for objective holding.

Place your Herdstone close to an objective if possible (there are scenarios where you know where the objectives are, others you do not), The Shaman will hold the objective while sacrificing on unit of ungors for summoning points. The other should hunker down around the second objective you plan to hold. Use Bestigors to threaten around your weak side.

Also the monster mesh, while it gets a +1 for cool factor, is a lot of points tied into fragile monsters. One of them will die before it gets to combat. Most likely the Chimera. Gorghon willbe focused next. I would drop he Cygor and get Dragon Ogors, who for less points are more efficient.

Depending on how many points are left over you can considering adding units or upgrading some of them into better ones (as in instead of 1 unit of ungors you add the extra points and got with 1 unit of Bestigors), or maybe looking into an Andless Spell.

Also - Titanic fury is really only usable with the Chimera. The spell is not great as it adds attacks for weapon profiles. Great for Chimera, bad for all the other big guys. If you still want a spell to invest into the big Gribblies, go with the -1Save Reroll To Wound rolls. The big mosnters will be focused fired anyway, so the amount of attacks will drop regardless due to the Wound chart, but unlike Titanic fury its less Chimera oriented, and can be used on pretty much anything in the army.

First of all, thank you for taking the time and effort to review my list!

If I understand you correctly, you would play it like this:

- Great Bray-Shaman
- Great Bray-Shaman
- Doombull (general)

6x Bullgor
6x Bullgor
10x Ungor
10x Ungor

10x Bestigor
3x Dragon Ogor

Ghorgon
Chimera

1780/2000 points

And use the remaining 220 points for either (or a combination of)  swapping Ungor for Bestigor, Endless Spells or more Dragon Ogors. Maybe Dragon Ogor Shaggoth?

[Myrdin]

For the remaining 220 points I would either add one more 10 man unit of Bestigors, leaving you with 100 pts to do as you please, or alternatively, add +3 to the existing Dragon Ogor unit. 6 are pretty good at what they do. 3 melt to quickly. And this is true for any monstrous infantry, so applies to Bullgors  as well.

That would leave you with 80 pts. Thats enough for one more unit of Ungors, and a cheap situational Endless spell. Or just take a unit of 10 gors with shields for extra objective holding just to not leave any point unused. Otherwise I would put them into a unit of Centigors. Same price, double the speed. But we are cooking with what you have here.

Honestly you need to test out different variations of the build, to see what sticks with you the most. Since you said you are still quite new to BoC, all of this is theoretical, since you you yet need to see the units act out their parts and see how they do in different scenarios.

[SwampHeart]

16 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

That would leave you with 80 pts.

Wildfire Taurus is realistically a must for competitive BoC and with 80 points that's what you take. You need to have some kind of tool to threaten in the activation wars. 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

1 minute ago, SwampHeart said:

Wildfire Taurus is realistically a must for competitive BoC and with 80 points that's what you take. You need to have some kind of tool to threaten in the activation wars. 

 

I second this. I didn't used to run it, but it's essential now, and is a bargain at 80 points.

[benmoorepaintco]

Hey y'all, I'm brand new to wargaming and went into it with a friend. He's already gone and bought two armies (seraphon and skeletons) while I'm still working on my first. Right now I have the Start Collecting BoC starter set, an extra shaman, and an extra unit of ungors, which I have formed into:

-10 ungors with spears
-10 ungor raiders
-10 Bestigors
-1 Ghorgon
-2 Great Bray Shamans

I'm not a strategist by any means, and staring at the list of possible units makes me absolutely freeze up. Is there any way to bring this to 1000 points that will be viable at least in my LFGS or am i gonna have to overhaul it and replace most of my models with better stuff?

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

Anyone tempted by any of the Mercenaries? The Cannons look quite tempting to me!

[The_Yellow_Sign]

1 hour ago, benmoorepaintco said:

Hey y'all, I'm brand new to wargaming and went into it with a friend. He's already gone and bought two armies (seraphon and skeletons) while I'm still working on my first. Right now I have the Start Collecting BoC starter set, an extra shaman, and an extra unit of ungors, which I have formed into:

-10 ungors with spears
-10 ungor raiders
-10 Bestigors
-1 Ghorgon
-2 Great Bray Shamans

I'm not a strategist by any means, and staring at the list of possible units makes me absolutely freeze up. Is there any way to bring this to 1000 points that will be viable at least in my LFGS or am i gonna have to overhaul it and replace most of my models with better stuff?

All the models you've got are great, except for the Ghorgon, which is considered to be "non-competitive", but is still fine for friendly games. I would suggest maybe getting another 2 or 3 start collecting boxes since all of the units in there (except for the Ghorgon/Cygor)  are always useful no matter your build, and you need surplus for summoning.

My main advice to you would be to play intelligently. Beasts of Chaos are an army that win by holding objectives and picking your battles carefully, rather than just destroying your opponent outright. So only charge into combat when you know that you'll win.

Edited June 30, 2019 by The_Yellow_Sign

[Maddpainting]

2 hours ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

Anyone tempted by any of the Mercenaries? The Cannons look quite tempting to me!

I was looking at skeletons only b.c Skeletons are actually good for what they are and i dont need to play with all 100 of my ungors/raiders to still have lots of bodies.

[swarmofseals]

I've been working out a ton of different BoC lists and am currently working on using the actual beasts allegiance instead of one of the god themes. 

I'm currently wondering what your experiences have been like with the dragon ogre shaggoth. The DO lore has two great spells (the rend one and the move one) but 180 is a lot of points to pay for a wizard with no cast modifier. 

As an aside, I really wish we could ally everchosen...

[Myrdin]

What mercenaries are you guys talking about ?

I didnt know there is such a thing, especially considering how limited BoC ally options are.

 

9 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

I've been working out a ton of different BoC lists and am currently working on using the actual beasts allegiance instead of one of the god themes. 

I'm currently wondering what your experiences have been like with the dragon ogre shaggoth. The DO lore has two great spells (the rend one and the move one) but 180 is a lot of points to pay for a wizard with no cast modifier. 

As an aside, I really wish we could ally everchosen...

Shaggoth is not a spell caster in the purest sense so if you restrict yourself thinking that "this is just a overcosted bray shaman with bigger base" you are literally crippling yourself with that line of thought, which in turn might negatively impact how you draw your strategy and move things around.

Dont play him as a spell caster. Play him as a 10W combat support character, who can either roll a -3 Rend with one arterfact, or a 3+ Save with another one. Treat the spell casting as an extra ability that can happen each turn, but move him in a way you wound move any other of our front-line units. 

I tend to run my Shaggy with the Azyrite Blade for the innate -3 Rend. On many occasions he cut through several units, or small groups of characters on his lonesome, while occasionally succeeding at buffing his nearby retinue of DO or anything that was close enough to be buffed. Unless there are bigger threads on the board he will get focused heavily, so might as well give them (opponents) a reason.

The fact that he has 10W and no damage table chart does allow for a more relaxed mindset of using him as a multipurpose tool, rather than a one thing specialist.

[The_Yellow_Sign]

 

 

28 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

What mercenaries are you guys talking about ?

I didnt know there is such a thing, especially considering how limited BoC ally options are.

 

Shaggoth is not a spell caster in the purest sense so if you restrict yourself thinking that "this is just a overcosted bray shaman with bigger base" you are literally crippling yourself with that line of thought, which in turn might negatively impact how you draw your strategy and move things around.

Dont play him as a spell caster. Play him as a 10W combat support character, who can either roll a -3 Rend with one arterfact, or a 3+ Save with another one. Treat the spell casting as an extra ability that can happen each turn, but move him in a way you wound move any other of our front-line units. 

I tend to run my Shaggy with the Azyrite Blade for the innate -3 Rend. On many occasions he cut through several units, or small groups of characters on his lonesome, while occasionally succeeding at buffing his nearby retinue of DO or anything that was close enough to be buffed. Unless there are bigger threads on the board he will get focused heavily, so might as well give them (opponents) a reason.

The fact that he has 10W and no damage table chart does allow for a more relaxed mindset of using him as a multipurpose tool, rather than a one thing specialist.

 

I disagree about the Shaggoth: I don't think it's worth risking him getting killed on the front line, and I think it's a waste of an artefact to buff his attack profile. With 3 attacks at  3+/3+/-1/3, you're getting on average only 4 damage through before saves. It's not worth risking him in combat when BoC heroes are so essential for negating battleshock, especially now with a lot of the weird deployments that push the Herdstone further back. 

The real value of the Shaggoth IMO is Hailstorm and Ancient Beyond Knowing; anything else that he manages to do is a bonus.

[swarmofseals]

5 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Shaggoth is not a spell caster in the purest sense so if you restrict yourself thinking that "this is just a overcosted bray shaman with bigger base" you are literally crippling yourself with that line of thought, which in turn might negatively impact how you draw your strategy and move things around.

 

4 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

I disagree about the Shaggoth: I don't think it's worth risking him getting killed on the front line, and I think it's a waste of an artefact to buff his attack profile. With 3 attacks at  3+/3+/-1/3, you're getting on average only 4 damage through before saves. It's not worth risking him in combat when BoC heroes are so essential for negating battleshock, especially now with a lot of the weird deployments that push the Herdstone further back. 

The real value of the Shaggoth IMO is Hailstorm and Ancient Beyond Knowing; anything else that he manages to do is a bonus.

I'm definitely with @The_Yellow_Sign on this one. Shaggoth is just not efficient enough on offense or defense to justify taking for a combat role. Obviously you don't just treat him exactly the same as a Bray Shaman, but neither is he suited for combat against any target that can really fight back.

Hailstorm and Sundering Blades are both great though, but I'm just not sure if I can afford to drop 180 points on it. Ancient Beyond Knowing is probably out as I think I'll likely be running Gavespawn, although maybe I shouldn't.

[Lord Krungharr]

I just ran my Beasts as Beasts of Khorne with allied Shaggoth and Bray Shaman last Saturday.  Was very disappointed in the Shaggoth and Dragon Ogors, though the lasted a long time they couldn't remove even tiny units from objectives.  And of course I got very few spells off.  It's amazing how little a 6 happens on 2D6, and then there are unbindings, etc.  I think for the Endless Spells the Taurus is a no brainer for the Beasts at the 80 points level, but I'd probably put in my Tzaangor Shaman (newly assembled) next time for that instead.

I had Brass Despoilers

Doombull w 9 greataxe Bullgors

3x10 Gors w shields

3 Dragon Ogors w paired weapons

then the Shaggoth/Bray Shaman allied w all 3 Beasts spells

Bloodsecrator and 5 Wrathmongers

It was really tough to keep up with the Bullgors and keep the Khorne dudes wholly within range for the extra attacks.  I think 3x3 Bullgors would have been much much better for that and the Brass Despoilers bonus too.  Certainly worth me trying again, but changing out those allies for the Tzaangor Shaman, and trading Dragon Ogors for 2 Tuskgor Chariots.

For a pure Beasts army I think I'd trade out my meager Gors for Bestigors.  They're just SOOO much better.  Don't have the models yet though.

 

[garmr]

10 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I just ran my Beasts as Beasts of Khorne with allied Shaggoth and Bray Shaman last Saturday.  Was very disappointed in the Shaggoth and Dragon Ogors, though the lasted a long time they couldn't remove even tiny units from objectives.  And of course I got very few spells off.  It's amazing how little a 6 happens on 2D6, and then there are unbindings, etc.  I think for the Endless Spells the Taurus is a no brainer for the Beasts at the 80 points level, but I'd probably put in my Tzaangor Shaman (newly assembled) next time for that instead.

I had Brass Despoilers

Doombull w 9 greataxe Bullgors

3x10 Gors w shields

3 Dragon Ogors w paired weapons

then the Shaggoth/Bray Shaman allied w all 3 Beasts spells

Bloodsecrator and 5 Wrathmongers

It was really tough to keep up with the Bullgors and keep the Khorne dudes wholly within range for the extra attacks.  I think 3x3 Bullgors would have been much much better for that and the Brass Despoilers bonus too.  Certainly worth me trying again, but changing out those allies for the Tzaangor Shaman, and trading Dragon Ogors for 2 Tuskgor Chariots.

For a pure Beasts army I think I'd trade out my meager Gors for Bestigors.  They're just SOOO much better.  Don't have the models yet though.

 

If your going to put a dragon ogor shaggoth in a god army his really good in Slaanesh for the depravity points.  

[decker_cky]

Shaggoth allegiance ability is pretty nifty for endless spells, since it lets you change the angle and/or close the distance before casting. 

Shaggoths are actually pretty cheap per wound for a hero (only doombulls have better value per wound for BoC). Summon lightning and beneath the tempest combine to make them very resilient if you need. 

Shaggoths are decent in combat, but not compared to a combat hero unless you get off summon lightning. 

Hailstorm and Sundering Blades are both top tier spells. Sundering blades is great because it can be used effectively by your herdstone babysitter. This also stacks nicely with his decent combat ability - while a shaggoth isn't a top tier caster, they can definitely jump into the fray from time to time to if something breaks through your lines. 

[Maddpainting]

Shaggoths are jack of all heroes, treat them as being ok at everything, but not great at anything.

[Lord Krungharr]

Plus Shaggoths are such cool models!  I also wanna make a Jabberslythe.  

[swarmofseals]

Yeah, I'd love to get an excuse to use my Mierce Kholuk model. Might be a bit large for a Shaggoth but I can live with that in a casual game!

I'm still pretty torn about including one in a competitive list though. I've got about 3/4 of my Desolating Beastherd sorted out but those last 500 points are tricky!

[Myrdin]

Well I am not a competitive player. I play to win sure, but I dont try hard, and keep it at a friendly level. 

I have the Khorne mentality when I play my Beastmen. I dont care if I loose, as long as things on both side die.  You defeat me ? Thats mighty fine, if I wiped 2/3 of your army in the process, we rolled bunch of die, removed models, and talked smack about each other and the units goofing around and missing their rolls while laughing.

Thats why I dont have a problem running a combat shaggy with Azyrite blade in the front lines. That mentality of keeping a 180  pts monster in the back row just doesnt sit well with me. Its wasted points for something that can and should be paying for itself once deployed. 

As for the big Shaggy model from Mierce mini... yeah that one is bad*ss as all hell, but the size is waaaay bigger. You would normally put that thing on a 120mm oval minimum, not the 90x50 that Dragon Ogors are based on. The cool factor is high though, gotta give him that!