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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, AlexanderGonzo said:

Not sure if this has been discussed already, but what are everyone's thoughts on the GHB 2019 changes to BoC? I really love that our endless spells went down across the board and that gors went down making my battleline super cheap! Sadly, no Bull/Bestigor changes but still really good points for the units. Do you guys plan on playing BoC throughout the year or pick up a new army? Personally, I'm looking at DoT because I love casting spells and playing in my Hero Phase :)  

BoC is my slow build army at the moment. I'm using it to learn a lot of new painting things (like a better way to do skin). With Contrast paints out I've decided to finally crank out that Feral Ork army I've wanted for a while (especially since the new GSG help source somce nice bits like Squig Hoppers for Boar Boyz to ride to be count as Storm Boyz). I won't be converting a lot of the regular basic models though so they can be used to play Bonesplitterz without explaining why they have guns (I'd rather use their standard equipment and go with count as instead).

Attached is my Wii Gorgon and all his lovely skin (skin I still need to put tattoos on).

IMG_g2m3tg.jpg

IMG_cv1dkf.jpg

Edited by Fulkes
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On 6/7/2019 at 6:14 AM, Myrdin said:

I do prefer the Brass Despoilers over most. Desolating is nice but to me is worth only if I run with 40 Raiders, Cygor and a Shammy with +1 to Hit when ambushing artifact. Which is not always something I wanna go do. Brass is easy to do, and while there are units that benefit less from the effect than others, some benefit form it rather nicely. Like a bunch of Minotaurs and Gorgons.... oh yesss... Brass Gorgons are the Jam!

I love Brass Despoilers Minotuars.  Very swingy, with dice spiking like crazy but when it hits, units are removed.  

On 6/18/2019 at 5:41 AM, cranect said:

I know exactly what bulls can do. Ya they are slower than enlightened and with hero support equal damage. If the enlightened are also able to do the clip charge or have a screen they can do more assuming it isnt a stupid high save. The bulls dont need the support though. It isnt as reliant on other things. I run an all warherd list with 2 cygor, 2 ghorgon, 18 bulls, and a doombull. Is it optimal? No. Can it compete and give good games even against the top tier stuff hell yes. Not only that but it is relatively simple to do so.

What are you doing with your Cygors?  I'm such a fan of Ghorgons I struggle to not try to max them out.

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The other nice thing is that if you are paying the battalion tax, you can take 3x10 ungors for a 180 pt battle line - by far the cheapest option for nurgle (even 380 in battle line isn't far off their cheapest). With ungors being fast, cheap and exploding, they're excellent value chaff.

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Speaking of ungor chaff...

How have people's experiences with ungor raiders been? First glace, a little pricier than their less mobile counterparts, but seem amazing screeners.

While not having played them, it seems that they could potentially grab/ screen an objective first turn. 
More importantly, the potential to  screen alphastrike armies is fantastic.

 

That and in the pest. battalion, exploding goats.

Am I setting the bar too high for these guys?

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Blackspine said:

Speaking of ungor chaff...

How have people's experiences with ungor raiders been? First glace, a little pricier than their less mobile counterparts, but seem amazing screeners.

While not having played them, it seems that they could potentially grab/ screen an objective first turn. 
More importantly, the potential to  screen alphastrike armies is fantastic.

 

That and in the pest. battalion, exploding goats.

Am I setting the bar too high for these guys?

 

 

My Raiders has almost always been my MVP, i went to Adepticon (sadly had to leave early and couldnt get my 5th game in) and my 40man Block always did great, had a few opponents even mention how well they worked.

I didnt ambush them, i did move them up closer only once (I had a 1 drop so i always let my opponents go first), having a Bestigor unit in front, and Disks moving around, they almost never got targeted. Being able to run and Shoot with a Shaman near, a 11-14" movement on a 40 block that shoots can change games.

IDK if i can take them less than a 40man every again.

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3 hours ago, Popisdead said:

I love Brass Despoilers Minotuars.  Very swingy, with dice spiking like crazy but when it hits, units are removed.  

What are you doing with your Cygors?  I'm such a fan of Ghorgons I struggle to not try to max them out.

For the most part hunting enemy wizards and dispelling their buffs. With 2 Cygors and the Gavespawn trait I get 5 unbinds.

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1 hour ago, cranect said:

For the most part hunting enemy wizards and dispelling their buffs. With 2 Cygors and the Gavespawn trait I get 5 unbinds.

I guess I assumed automatically you used Dark WAlkers as it pairs well with Minotaurs and KHorne.  What is your full list then?  Just trying to read how it works.

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Has anyone played bullgor with shields? I have always been using great axes and i understand that's the most common way of using them. I just got curious about going down in damage for more survivability and a better chance of doing mortal wounds. 

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2 hours ago, Popisdead said:

I guess I assumed automatically you used Dark WAlkers as it pairs well with Minotaurs and KHorne.  What is your full list then?  Just trying to read how it works.

It is pretty simple.

1 doombull

3 units of 6 great axe bullgors

2 Ghorgons

2 Cygors

2 Chaos Spawn

You get an extra command point and more importantly hopefully have less points than your opponent and get the reroll to hit triumph. For using it it depends on who you go against. Most stormcast lists you can just run straight at. Things like flesh eaters and ironjawz you have to be more clever. Yes ironjawz. They reroll to hit and have enough attacks to make it hurt. Ive only gone against daughters a few times but they were fairly straightforward. All depends on who you are going against and their skill level as well.

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@cranect

it's crazy you have no screens, not much to boost (no secrator or stoker) and you're just using fairly stock stuff.  I love it.

I've been trying something different with okay success (mostly I don't get enough games in to really work the details) but I use Darkwalkers, fewer bulls and more Ghorgons and Doombulls.  

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Posted (edited)

Ya but I have just been playing this list with previously less stuff since AOS came out so I just know how to play it. It is strange this is the only army I have played with any consistency. I normally run a different list every time.

Occasionally I will run them in Khorne since they are painted like the Bloodschorched Bulltribe from the Godbeasts book. They are good under Khorne. The most useful blood tithe is normally the one where you attack in the hero phase to finish something off.

Edited by cranect
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what things do you guys tend to summon in over the course of your games? I had 6 games yesterday at a local store league and im always unsure what to bring in.... Against the Nighthaunt player i just couldnt get the call points, i kept getting 2 a turn so i only managed to get a unit of Bestigors in, then i was against a Khorne mortals army of which i got off 2 Cockatrices, i then had a game vs Seraphon and i was mainly bringing on Ungor Raiders to fight back the tide of Skinks, against Gloomspite i brought i think 2 spawn (as i just couldnt get the Call Points) then my last game was against Chaos Dwarves which i got 3 enlightened and 3 Dragon Ogres.

Id love to hear what you guys usually call forth!

 

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Posted (edited)

Found an old picture I once took for size comparison between GW models and an alternate hard rubber Giant toy I found on the internet for 5 bucks and fast painted.

All of these guys have been re-based to round bases and the Gorghon is now also painted, but its kinda funny how they resemble the Volume/Sound Icon often see. Just though I`d share, for light amusement 😛

20180110_203646.jpg.cfded4f0d57ee06ea25eaa1a427aca8d.jpg

Edited by Myrdin
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4 hours ago, Ekrund Oath Splitters said:

what things do you guys tend to summon in over the course of your games? I had 6 games yesterday at a local store league and im always unsure what to bring in.... Against the Nighthaunt player i just couldnt get the call points, i kept getting 2 a turn so i only managed to get a unit of Bestigors in, then i was against a Khorne mortals army of which i got off 2 Cockatrices, i then had a game vs Seraphon and i was mainly bringing on Ungor Raiders to fight back the tide of Skinks, against Gloomspite i brought i think 2 spawn (as i just couldnt get the Call Points) then my last game was against Chaos Dwarves which i got 3 enlightened and 3 Dragon Ogres.

Id love to hear what you guys usually call forth!

 

I normally aim to bring on Bestigor or Enlightened on discs for that first summon. They seem to give us our best bang per summoning point and can actually have an effect in their minimum unit size.

Later in the game I'll go for Ungor or Gor to objective grab with my leftover summoning pool.

Specific case summons are Cockatrice if I need to mortal off some characters or the mighty Tuskgor chariot if I need to chaff up Morathi or something similar. 

I'd be keen to hear if anyone has had much joy with the Allherd summoning builds? Who's brought on a Chimera!

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Posted (edited)

I have 3 Chimeras, so i like playing with them and why i played Allherd a bit., its not that bad, I play my Dragon Ogres with Allherd, with -1 to brav test, re-roll charges you dont need to spend CP as much and can save them. Turn 2 Chimera is pretty good, take the Relic to gain back CP on 5+, 1/3 to gain a CP back can really change the game too. I start with 1CP down and 1CP from Battalion normally (I never did the 3-4CP down, but thats gone so it doesnt matter). I like having a 2nd relic, starting with 2CP then gaining 1 turn 1, on average you'll have 7PC points turn 1, but if you wait 1 more turn to make sure you have CP for moral might be good, i averaged 5-6CP turn 1 spending 2PC points.  Your opponent will play completely differently when they see you can summon everything on turn 1 or 2.

Now is it better than Gavespawn? I think its on bar for sure, mostly the re-rolls and +1brav, the bonus Rend weapon was ok, i put it on my Dragon Ogre, that helped, my Shaggoth was my General (I had 2 of them) so i was fine putting him into melee 1st for the charging re-rolls.

But honestly, Gavespawn is more fun to play.

Edited by Maddpainting
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1 hour ago, Maddpainting said:

I have 3 Chimeras, so i like playing with them and why i played Allherd a bit., its not that bad, I play my Dragon Ogres with Allherd, with -1 to brav test, re-roll charges you dont need to spend CP as much and can save them. Turn 2 Chimera is pretty good, take the Relic to gain back CP on 5+, 1/3 to gain a CP back can really change the game too. I start with 1CP down and 1CP from Battalion normally (I never did the 3-4CP down, but thats gone so it doesnt matter). I like having a 2nd relic, starting with 2CP then gaining 1 turn 1, on average you'll have 7PC points turn 1, but if you wait 1 more turn to make sure you have CP for moral might be good, i averaged 5-6CP turn 1 spending 2PC points.  Your opponent will play completely differently when they see you can summon everything on turn 1 or 2.

Now is it better than Gavespawn? I think its on bar for sure, mostly the re-rolls and +1brav, the bonus Rend weapon was ok, i put it on my Dragon Ogre, that helped, my Shaggoth was my General (I had 2 of them) so i was fine putting him into melee 1st for the charging re-rolls.

But honestly, Gavespawn is more fun to play.

My Gavespawn Doombull was cleaving through things on my games yesterday. 3 times i got 15 damage through from his axe before MWs and any damage from the horns. 

 

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Hello fellow Beasties!  I have a game coming up this week against Fire Slayers, and this is going to be a heavy Berserker list, at 2k.  This is the crazy FS list where they can be buffed to a 3+/4+ save(s), and can pile in and attack twice if they're within 12" of a rune father.  Anyway, there might be some details left out, but that's the gist of it.  I have a rather large BoC army, and can pull multiples of any combination.  Any recommendations on how you'd fight these little ******? Lol.  Thanks in advance.  

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Also being a Fyreslayers player I can offer some insight. So beasts are actually a decent matchup here. Slayers are very slow use that. While the hearthguard can get 2+ rerolling saves and a 4 up after against others it doesnt work against us. The herdstone rend is great, take some bulls for rend 2 or just lots of rend 1 attacks, get the spell to up the rend some more and you can negate their save buffs or if they failed a prayer then even reduce them. If possible you want to go first and get on some objectives so that they cant tunnel onto them. The hearthguard buffed up are dumb. If you cant debuff them then just either stay far away of feed just enough to keep them stuck in place. Battlesmiths and priests are important targets. If they dont have auric hearthguard then your job became a lot easier. If they do then good luck as we dont have the best ranged. Use your crazy speed to the best effect and you should be able to do well. If they run hermdar dont anticipate any battleshock. If they go vostarg they can move 12 and charge turn one so be ready. If they go greyfyrd they can have a formidable block of heros but they are slow and easy to avoid since they wont have much else. I doubt they are going lofnir but if they do then they will have lots of magmadroths and mortal wounds or lots of shooting but either should be able to be handled with our rend buffs and speed.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, cranect said:

Also being a Fyreslayers player I can offer some insight. So beasts are actually a decent matchup here. Slayers are very slow use that. While the hearthguard can get 2+ rerolling saves and a 4 up after against others it doesnt work against us. The herdstone rend is great, take some bulls for rend 2 or just lots of rend 1 attacks, get the spell to up the rend some more and you can negate their save buffs or if they failed a prayer then even reduce them. If possible you want to go first and get on some objectives so that they cant tunnel onto them. The hearthguard buffed up are dumb. If you cant debuff them then just either stay far away of feed just enough to keep them stuck in place. Battlesmiths and priests are important targets. If they dont have auric hearthguard then your job became a lot easier. If they do then good luck as we dont have the best ranged. Use your crazy speed to the best effect and you should be able to do well. If they run hermdar dont anticipate any battleshock. If they go vostarg they can move 12 and charge turn one so be ready. If they go greyfyrd they can have a formidable block of heros but they are slow and easy to avoid since they wont have much else. I doubt they are going lofnir but if they do then they will have lots of magmadroths and mortal wounds or lots of shooting but either should be able to be handled with our rend buffs and speed.

Recently played a few games against a similar list.  First time round I tried pilling everything into the Bezerkers, but we just don't have the combat punch to do that reliably. Maybe if you're rocking 18 Enlightened on disks and a Wildfire Torus (make sure you hot the Bezerkers and not the hero, so the hero will have to fight and activate all the rerolls), but generally you want to keep well clear (unless you manage to take out all the heros first)

Second game I went with a desolating beastherd list with plenty of Centigors and just out manoeuvred him. By the end of turn 2 I had a wide circle around his army and just picked off the straggling units while playing for objectives.  Stark contrast to the first game, I felt in complete control for the entire game as he just couldn't hold more than one objective without splitting his force (which would have resulted in me swarming and destroying the smaller half). 

So yeah, main thing is play the mission and use your mobility to control the game.  Ambush really throws them off their game (not enough cheap units to screen effectively) and a bit of shooting is invaluable, which basically means raiders and/or Cockatrice.  Also remember the buffing heroes are generally quite squishy and poor in combat, so no hard doing a suicide charge to take one out if you get the chance.

Edited by Magnus The Blue
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Posted (edited)
On 6/25/2019 at 9:05 AM, Magnus The Blue said:

Recently played a few games against a similar list.  First time round I tried pilling everything into the Bezerkers, but we just don't have the combat punch to do that reliably. Maybe if you're rocking 18 Enlightened on disks and a Wildfire Torus (make sure you hot the Bezerkers and not the hero, so the hero will have to fight and activate all the rerolls), but generally you want to keep well clear (unless you manage to take out all the heros first)

Second game I went with a desolating beastherd list with plenty of Centigors and just out manoeuvred him. By the end of turn 2 I had a wide circle around his army and just picked off the straggling units while playing for objectives.  Stark contrast to the first game, I felt in complete control for the entire game as he just couldn't hold more than one objective without splitting his force (which would have resulted in me swarming and destroying the smaller half). 

So yeah, main thing is play the mission and use your mobility to control the game.  Ambush really throws them off their game (not enough cheap units to screen effectively) and a bit of shooting is invaluable, which basically means raiders and/or Cockatrice.  Also remember the buffing heroes are generally quite squishy and poor in combat, so no hard doing a suicide charge to take one out if you get the chance.

I havent played against FS since they got their new battletome but id imagine id do exactly what you described above. Id use the Brayherds speed to encircle them and pick fights against the weaker units, my ambushing units would try to divide up the enemies forces or sneaky cap objectives and I would use every bit of shooting I have to target his heroes, it would probably be a dull game for the FS player and nail biting for us as one mess up in our performance will catch us off guard. Once the heroes are dealt it will have to be a massive dog pile from either side of the Hearthguard and just pump attack after attack into them which Bestigors and Bullgors as they would benefit the best from the CA from Gavespawn. 

Edited by Ekrund Oath Splitters

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On 6/25/2019 at 3:05 AM, Magnus The Blue said:

So yeah, main thing is play the mission and use your mobility to control the game. 

This is BoC in a nutshell. As an army we effectively lack any real punch (outside Enlightened Builds) - you have to win the game by controlling the board and dieing to win objectives. Its I think the hardest learning point for BoC players because it seems like a 'punch people in the face army' and people want it play that way. They see combat units with volume attacks and think 'this army will win by outfighting my opponent'. 

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Are Gors any good at 70 points now? Or are the other two options (un and besti) still better?

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In 10man's sure, but only for body blocking and objective holding, unlocking some Battalions as well.

Honestly they are still godly awful. They really needed a warscroll change. 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

In 10man's sure, but only for body blocking and objective holding, unlocking some Battalions as well.

Honestly they are still godly awful. They really needed a warscroll change. 

Pretty much this.

I said it a dozen times, but in all honesty they are just younger, bit weaker less experienced, half naked Bestigors.  As such they  should at least share similar profile of 3+ To Wound and 2A.  If we go by the logic that Rend and Armor save comes from the Equipment Bestigors are donned with.

This would make them effectively outperform both Ungors and more likely than not, Centigors in damage dealt. And with their Chaos & Mayhem ability they could actually dish out surprising amount of non rend Attacks if taken in big blobs. Similar to how Bestigors do when making use of the bonus Charge Attack. Needless to say, they would make for a fantastic Herdstone guard, especially if an objective is close by. 

If that was the case I would gladly start taking them again, even at 80pts.

Ungors would still be the cheap throw away options, usefull for bodies and 25mm bases, while Centigors would still be an amazingly fast unit, and Bestigors would still be.... welll Bestigors. So there would be no real negative impact on the other units Gors are competing with, but would flesh them out in the role they currently lack.

Edited by Myrdin

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I just wanted them to be 3+ to wound at least, why are they as weak as Ungors? In all of fantasy they were always better in melee than Ungors. They are bigger and stronger, but yet hit the same... so stupid.

I would kept them at 8pts, made them 3+ to wound and always 2 attacks, the 20+ or more would be "Unruly Blob" If the unit if 20 or more and charged they are -1 to be hit for this phase.

Now they are back to being fluffy and has a purpose. But GW isnt very imaginative. 

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