AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Fulkes]

2 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Man I really hope not. Beastlord is still a way better hero for the Gnarlblade, which is the only thing that makes a melee hero viable in BoC.

I sincerely hope they give the Beastlord an updated sheet in this update or something. If being thd caddy for a single artefact is all he's good for then something needs to change.

Depending on how this all shakes out it might be worth sending detailed feedback to the FAQ address if we don't see some shifts to the army.

[garmr]

A new command ability would be nice for the beastlord, but I doubt that would happen. I'm just hoping that gors will get a niche now with the point drop.

[Satyrical Sophist]

From GMG review

Gors 70/200

Chaos gargant 170

Tzaangor Shaman 160.

Razorgors 50

Tuskgor chariots 60 or 200 for 4

Tzaangor enlightened on discs to 160.

Doomblast dirgehorn 50

Ravenwing direflock 30

Wildfire bull is 80.

[The_Yellow_Sign]

5 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

From GMG review

Gors 70/200

Chaos gargant 170

Tzaangor Shaman 160.

Razorgors 50

Tuskgor chariots 60 or 200 for 4

Tzaangor enlightened on discs to 160.

Doomblast dirgehorn 50

Ravenwing direflock 30

Wildfire bull is 80.

Gors still ****** due to insignificant horde discount, Gargant still ******, Chariot still mediocre, Horn is still bad, Direflock is still so bad that I wouldn't cast it if it was free, and why the hell did the crappy Razorgors go up?

No changes for all the terrible monsters of Chaos that aren't even worth summoning, no points drop for the Beastlord, no drop for Warherd. Bullgors are still worse in every way than Enlightened so why would you use them even if they're the same cost?

Aaaaaah! So frustrating!

[kenshin620]

1 hour ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Aaaaaah! So frustrating!

 

I swear I have seen this reaction in every topic in regards to point changes. Unless it's Bonesplitterz in which case they didn't get any changes for either a reason or no reason!

[The_Yellow_Sign]

Just now, kenshin620 said:

 

I swear I have seen this reaction in every topic in regards to point changes. Unless it's Bonesplitterz in which case they didn't get any changes for either a reason or no reason!

 

GW points writers seem to have no clue how the game works (or how to do maths) so I'm not surprised.

[Fulkes]

22 minutes ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

 

GW points writers seem to have no clue how the game works (or how to do maths) so I'm not surprised.

They have plenty idea how the game works but their vision of it doesn't always match ours.

I don't hate Razorwings, but I do question why we have an endless spell that was written for such niche uses. They seem to exist to help us push extra casualties onto enemy units and combo with our leadership based spells. 

[Myrdin]

I hope those are not all the price changes.

MInotaurs seriously need some price drop, to at least be the same cost as Dragon Ogres, otherwise they are just trash tier overpriced meh unit.

Skyfires not reducing in cost is absolutely pitiful. Considering Enlightened went up (not unexpected though)

[Fulkes]

Well if our army comp changes it's going to be in response to other armies, and not our own. It feels like we only got a small amount of attention to try and push models that aren't selling well and to curb the ones that are selling too well.

[garmr]

6 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Gors still ****** due to insignificant horde discount, Gargant still ******, Chariot still mediocre, Horn is still bad, Direflock is still so bad that I wouldn't cast it if it was free, and why the hell did the crappy Razorgors go up?

No changes for all the terrible monsters of Chaos that aren't even worth summoning, no points drop for the Beastlord, no drop for Warherd. Bullgors are still worse in every way than Enlightened so why would you use them even if they're the same cost?

Aaaaaah! So frustrating!

If your using a god battalion that's not tzeentch or want to keep your army one drop in des I could see people using mino. Through I would use dragon ogres over that.

[Satyrical Sophist]

1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

I hope those are not all the price changes.

MInotaurs seriously need some price drop, to at least be the same cost as Dragon Ogres, otherwise they are just trash tier overpriced meh unit.

Skyfires not reducing in cost is absolutely pitiful. Considering Enlightened went up (not unexpected though)

Those are all the point changes. They even put an asterisk next to anything that changed. Feel free to have a look if you want, you can see the page almost at the start of the GMG review (part two, part one is battle plans and stuff).

That said I'm kind of hopeful they are going to start doing more regular updates, printing the points in their own booklet means that the main GHB wouldn't become outdated.

[Maddpainting]

I wanted only 2 things

Gors warscroll change
Monsters points drop

I got neither, so frustrating. I guess i'll just play 60 Bestigors and 80 Raiders for now on.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Maddpainting

[Amradiel]

Beasts of chaos are good, right? Didn't they place 1st on the UK masters and like 4th on Cancon? I was just about to start my own army but have seen a very negative tone regarding the army the past few days. Why is that?

[thebloody9]

1 hour ago, Amradiel said:

Beasts of chaos are good, right? Didn't they place 1st on the UK masters and like 4th on Cancon? I was just about to start my own army but have seen a very negative tone regarding the army the past few days. Why is that?

I think it's in part because they have lots of options but really only one effective style of play.

It's not the end of the world and if they had been a brand new army with a limited run of models there'd be no gripe. However people have got their Gor, their Cygor, their Chimera and their Bullgor and want to get them on the table but feel silly if they do.

Seeing no variation when you have lots of options is a little sad really.

[Fulkes]

We have a second playstyle: bird goats. 

That said, when you have some of the coolest models in the game but are punished by your rules for using them it's not easy to stay upbeat about the army.

[Skreech Verminking]

I’ve been snooping in few videos about the meeting engagement, and well from a feeling and understanding Boc might be quit good at that kind of play style.

Edited June 16, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Maddpainting]

Right, we have a huge ling of units but it is clear that there is no inner balance between them.

Just look at Bullgors and Tzaangors on Disks, for the same points Bulls are less than half movement, no fly,  no re-rolls possibilities base, no + to hit (something they need moreso than + to wound), and over all less damage in general.

Is not like 20-30pts off a Bulls, Chimer or Ghorgon was going to shift them to a power creep, heck even a 10pt drop for all would beensomething. But they got nothing.

[Myrdin]

6 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

Right, we have a huge ling of units but it is clear that there is no inner balance between them.

Just look at Bullgors and Tzaangors on Disks, for the same points Bulls are less than half movement, no fly,  no re-rolls possibilities base, no + to hit (something they need moreso than + to wound), and over all less damage in general.

Is not like 20-30pts off a Bulls, Chimer or Ghorgon was going to shift them to a power creep, heck even a 10pt drop for all would beensomething. But they got nothing.

Now in regards to the Gorghon I must say, its actually a pretty decent monster for 200 pts. Sure its not the best thing ever, its biggest weakness is in my opinion lack of higher rend, like a -2 on the flesh hooks and -3 on the bite. But unlike bullgors it does hit on 3, and can benefit from pretty much all the battalions that matter.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

Im going to a 1k doubles event this July and im thinking of bringing the following list:

Greatfray: 

Gavespawn

Leaders:

Doombull - (General) Command Trait: Unravelling. Aura Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade. 120pts

Great Bray-Shaman - Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of Atrophy. Artefact: The Knowing Eye. 100pts

Battleline:

 Bullgors - Warherd Drummer, Warherd Banner Bearer, Bullgor Great Axes. 160pts

20 Gor - Brayhorn, Banner Bearer, Gor Blades and Beastshields. 140pts

10 Ungor - Brayhorn, Banner Bearer, Ungor Blades and Half-shields. 60pts

10 Ungor - Brayhorn, Banner Bearer, Ungor Blades and Half-shields. 60pts

Behemoth:

Ghorgon 200pts 

Warscroll Battalion:

Desolating Beastherd 150pts

Total: 990pts    Extra CP: 1    Drops: 1

 

My team mate is bringing a Seraphon list, we have to be different Grand Alliances and the more eccentric the combination the better (whats better than the children of the old ones and the true children of chaos!). My general idea is to have my 20 Gors in Ambush and hopefully spring them on a weak flank turn 1, the Ungor will screen and be sacrificial lambs for my Primordial Call points. We share CPs but anything that is generated by your army or given by Warscroll Battalions you keep so im looking to be quite independent with my CPs and not leaving my partner with none to use hence the Knowing Eye artefact on the Shaman. I know Bullgors arent the best and neither are Gors but my Minotaurs are the ones from Zealot Miniatures so i kinda want to use them haha.... Im hoping that because the general speed of my army and paired with my mates Skinks we can nab objectives in a pinch and with us both summoning we can quickly reinforce the battleline with a choice of units. Ive gone with the Doombull over a Beastlord just purely on looks of the model and the Bull has the innate better rend to get through Heroes and Units that rely on rerollable saves that are 4+ or better, and 5 damage a swing is just tasty.... (i imagine him swinging that axe like Sauron haha!🤣)

Im aiming to summon in mainly Bestigors and the odd Spawn, i dont know if many people bank on calling forth a big boy like a Chimera or Ghorgon but to me it seems like a trap... at best its turn 3 that you get the biggun but im not sure.... Oh and im fully aware my Herd Stone will be debuffing any nearby Seraphon but Skinks arent known for their fabulous saves haha!😉 Also strangely a couple of the new Seraphon spells work on any friendly unit and with a Slann being able to swap out spells at the start of his Hero Phase, he could heal a wound on a single unit of mine or give me rerolls 1s to hit and even with Curse of Fates increase the amount of Ungors i sacrifice by 1 (or maybe not as its at the start?).

Let me know your opinions guys! ☺️ 

*ive already factored in the GHB2019 pts costs*

 

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Ekrund Oath Splitters

[SwampHeart]

On 6/16/2019 at 1:29 AM, Amradiel said:

Beasts of chaos are good, right? Didn't they place 1st on the UK masters and like 4th on Cancon? I was just about to start my own army but have seen a very negative tone regarding the army the past few days. Why is that?

The book is tremendous - unfortunately many BoC players would rather whine about what's not there than focus on where the army falls in the overall scope of play. Much like every other book in the game there are very strong options and then options that don't hold up - BoC isn't unique in this, its the same game every other army plays. The benefit is our strong options are very competitive - we have access to most of the tools needed to be successful in AoS and there are results from it. In addition to the CanCon and masters lists Rick Myhill did well with BoC at BOBO. On the whole I can't recommend BoC enough, its a great book with enough tools for you to build the kit you want. Ignore the BoC whinerbase. 

[muggins]

13 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

In addition to the CanCon and masters lists Rick Myhill did well with BoC at BOBO. 

Is this the list you're talking about? I'm struggling to figure out what it really does - I'm just a casual AOS player and digging out my BOC from the whfb days.

 

Quote

Bobo 2019

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos- Greatfray: AllherdMortal Realm: Hysh

LeadersDragon Ogor Shaggoth (180)

- General- Trait: Dominator - Artefact: Blade of the Desecrator - Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering BladesGreat Bray Shaman (100)

- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch - Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Vicious StranglethornsGreat Bray Shaman (100)

- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Wild RampageTzaangor Shaman (180)

- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Viletide

Battleline40 x Ungors (200)

- Mauls & Half-Shields10 x Ungors (60)

- Mauls & Half-Shields10 x Ungors (60)

- Mauls & Half-Shields

Units3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (140)

3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (140)

3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (140)

3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (140)

5 x Centigors (80)

5 x Centigors (80)

BattalionsPhantasmagoria of Fate (200)

Total: 1800 / 2000Extra Command Points: 5Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 154

 

[SwampHeart]

8 minutes ago, muggins said:

Is this the list you're talking about? I'm struggling to figure out what it really does - I'm just a casual AOS player and digging out my BOC from the whfb days.

 

That's it and that's the whole idea is it doesn't actually look amazing. However he generates 7+d3 primordial call points in the first turn which opens up a ton of summoning options. Additionally he has two great chaff units in Ungors, a great screen/tarpit in the big Ungor unit and great hammers in the Enlightened. Its a one drop list which lets him set the pace of the game and is generally efficient at playing most scenarios. I've personally talked bad about Allherd before (and I think you could take this list and do better with no Great Fray or Gavespawn still) but this is a good example of building for it and playing around it. 

[Maddpainting]

Looks like he puts the Ungors and has the Disks do the damage, with starting out 6 CP as a 1 drop, he can go 2nd to ensure double turn and getting everything into combat where he needs to turn 1.

Being Allherd (something im starting to like more and more) you can summing a key unit faster, even if its only 1-2CP, when you have 7 turn 1 its easily to use 3-4 CP and not care, also re-roll charges are very strong.

[muggins]

Is it correct that now you can only get 1 extra CP to start from 50 points lower? So it'll probably change a bit, but i'm sure he can figure out what to use those points for.

[SwampHeart]

14 minutes ago, muggins said:

Is it correct that now you can only get 1 extra CP to start from 50 points lower? So it'll probably change a bit, but i'm sure he can figure out what to use those points for.

I've heard conflicting reviews - I personally haven't watched an actual review yet.