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Gaz Taylor

AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

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Honestly I get serious work done with the beast lord and love his command ability. ****** a bunch of units with the Taurus, get the Beastlord with a gnarlblade up in a heroes grill, kill the hero, spend a cp and now everything wholly within 18” is re-rolling hit and wound rolls, the Taurus means your enemy doesn’t get to hit you back now everything’s rerolling and going first. It’s something no one ever sees coming no matter how much you warn people about it. 

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I just finished painting my full Beasts of Khorne army.   I've had very meh results running them as plain Beasts when unpainted so thought I'd give the Khorne version a whirl, but it's still pretty Beastly:

Brass Despoilers:

Doombull (Thermalrider Cloak from Aqshy) / 3 x 3 Bullgors w great axes / 3 x10 Gors w shields (battleline) / 3 Dragon Ogors w paired weapons / 1 Tuskgor Chariot

Bloodsecrator (general, violent urgency, Ignax's Scales from Aqshy)

Wrathmongers x 5

Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (allied)

Great Bray Shaman (allied)

Dirgehorn / Ravenwing Dyreflock / Wildfire Taurus

Any thoughts on changes as a Khorne army?  Getting rid of the Bloodsecrator and Wrathmongers, what to change or add for a plain Beasts army?

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4 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Desolating is nice but to me is worth only if I run with 40 Raiders, Cygor and a Shammy with +1 to Hit when ambushing artifact.

I think this is a bit overblown. You should probably run 60 Raiders in a Desolating list but you don't have to invest in a Cygor and the Shaman with the +1 to hit artifact is a straight trap option. Raiders do significant damage in the Desolating list because of exploding 6s which makes BoC a bit of a sleeper shooting army and from a competitive stand point adds a major tool to our tool kit. 

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So I was thinking of the recent argument about Gors.

What would be quite interesting is if we had some kind of benchmarks for comparison.

I'm pretty casual, so would love some feedback on this.

An example might be, how well does the unit charge and hit.... 40 plague monks. Assuming that the unit is in close ranks, how much frontage (plus a bit of the sideage I guess) does that have? Assume it's more or less a compact 10x4. That way you have about 12 inch front and beginning of sides right? So that's about 9 or 10 32s getting in if it's 1" range. Assuming you want to maximise number fighting.  Any more than that and you are really having to stretch out your unit, and looking a long slogging combat.

Another thing would be surrounded a monster and trying to kill it before it gets to attack back (assuming Locus or BigFlamingBull shenanigans if it's Gristlegore.) That's one where I'd kind of feel like actually having a base down and trying to work out how many models you could get in if you charged etc.

Slamming into a breakable screen (clan rats being basically daisy chained for example). I quite like my centigors for delaying actions, clipping the very rear of a unit and trying to stay out of combat as much as possible, but needing to be either wiped out or retreated from for example.

What kind of comparison benchmarks would be useful?

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We'd need to wait for the GHB, but a SEQ (Stormcast Equiv) is a given. Otherwise looking at the top 3 and assuming buffs would be a good way to go since we'd generally want to optimize for most commonly seen armies.

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Posted (edited)

I need help with a similar list at 1K 🙈

 

20190607_110344.png

Edited by Amradiel

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Skroug’s Menagerie from the upcoming narrative play mercenaries makes me wish there was a Chaos Gargant hero option!

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So I went digging through my storage and now have 3 suitable shaggoths. I haven't seen anyone talk about multiple shaggoths, let alone triple shaggoths.  Their lore provides three great spells,  they have multiple great magic item options (easy to have magic items on 2/3 in any battalion),  they fit easily in numerous different battalions, and they have very good survivability for their points cost (in the army, only doombulls are less points per wound).  

How would you make a triple shaggoth list sing? I'm not convinced the list should even have any normal dragon ogres.

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7 minutes ago, decker_cky said:

So I went digging through my storage and now have 3 suitable shaggoths. I haven't seen anyone talk about multiple shaggoths, let alone triple shaggoths.  Their lore provides three great spells,  they have multiple great magic item options (easy to have magic items on 2/3 in any battalion),  they fit easily in numerous different battalions, and they have very good survivability for their points cost (in the army, only doombulls are less points per wound).  

How would you make a triple shaggoth list sing? I'm not convinced the list should even have any normal dragon ogres.

I think two Shaggoths are the most I would do unless I was going for a themed Dragon Ogre army, since the rend spell and hailstorm are the clear winners in their lore. I personally like running a Shaggoth and Dragon Ogres together: the Dragon Ogres make a good objective holding unit when supported by the Shaggoth. I just run them onto the objective, put an Ungor screen in front, and then spam Hailstorm on anything approaching. I've yet to concede an objective using this strategy.

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4 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

I think two Shaggoths are the most I would do unless I was going for a themed Dragon Ogre army, since the rend spell and hailstorm are the clear winners in their lore. I personally like running a Shaggoth and Dragon Ogres together: the Dragon Ogres make a good objective holding unit when supported by the Shaggoth. I just run them onto the objective, put an Ungor screen in front, and then spam Hailstorm on anything approaching. I've yet to concede an objective using this strategy.

I like that tactic as well. It's mostly worked for me, though a troggoth hag just tore through it like butter.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

I like that tactic as well. It's mostly worked for me, though a troggoth hag just tore through it like butter.

LOL the Hag is a 400pt model Yeah a 3man unit of Dragons wont live, but 9 Dragon Ogres? Thats within its point limit to compare.

Edited by Maddpainting

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47 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

LOL the Hag is a 400pt model Yeah a 3man unit of Dragons wont live, but 9 Dragon Ogres? Thats within its point limit to compare.

Heh, I know the hag is 380, but it tore through 400 points (Shaggoth, centigor screen and 3 dragon ogors).

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

Heh, I know the hag is 380, but it tore through 400 points (Shaggoth, centigor screen and 3 dragon ogors).

I personally run 6 Dragon Ogres in a unit. I find that 3 just don't hit hard enough, even though they have some reasonable staying power.

Edited by The_Yellow_Sign

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Ooh good!  My Beasts of Khorne have 30 Gors in it.  Might get me another Endless Spell for my allied Shaggoth to use.

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Putting them at only ten points over Ungor might help a but, but I await someone to tell me how wrong I am. :P

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Fulkes said:

Putting them at only ten points over Ungor might help a but, but I await someone to tell me how wrong I am. :P

Haha, maybe. One thing I'm curious about is meeting engagements, since units can only be taken at minimum size normally (or double that in the main body).  The double size gor units get a lot of attacks before taking a wound, and are fast enough to catch up easier.

 

Edit. They might also be getting their horde bonus changed as well, since it either gets reduced or their is no horde discount. 

Edited by Satyrical Sophist
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Posted (edited)

If we assume horde drops by 30 pts, 180 pts for 30 would be nice. Still doesn't address the biggest value of ungors: their base size and how that allows them to support and screen hard hitters, but the unit is probably fair for its points. 

160 pt enlightened on discs: fair. Hoping they match skyfires, tzaangors, and tzaangor shamans for the same points cost, but I'm not hopeful. 

50 pt purple sun: Dope. A world with more purple suns is a good one. 

Edited by decker_cky

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With Purple sun being dropped to 50 pts I start thinking those rumors about our Taurus at 60pts might actually be true. Our Endless Spells are all overpriced, I was not convinced the Taurus value was actually the same as the Sun but I can see the added value of "attacking last" now, still it should not be 100pts. The Dirgehorn should be 40pts )(maybe 50pts considering it starts as 3" range amd the ravens should be 10pta IMO. They barely do something and what they do is not even consistent as they move a ****** ton the second a unit gets close to them.

I have high hopes for this GHB (even if I d prefer my units to cost a lot and actually reflecting the point cost on the table)!

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, decker_cky said:

If we assume horde drops by 30 pts, 180 pts for 30 would be nice. Still doesn't address the biggest value of ungors: their base size and how that allows them to support and screen hard hitters, but the unit is probably fair for its points. 

160 pt enlightened on discs: fair. Hoping they match skyfires, tzaangors, and tzaangor shamans for the same points cost, but I'm not hopeful. 

50 pt purple sun: Dope. A world with more purple suns is a good one. 

40 points is a bit of a big drop for skyfires. 

Not sure the shaman drop would make sense, enlightened needed a price increase, and if you reduce the shaman points then you basically make 9 Enlightened and a shaman only 40 points more than it was.  

Don't know if I am off base with this, but I kind of assume that those are probably the only two unit point changes, otherwise I'm inclined to believe they'd have mentioned two points drops to go with a point nerf.

Maybe battalions and spells though

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I doubt the points listed were all of our changes. Chances are they picked the ones they felt mattered the most to changing the way some armies play and shared those.

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This may not be "justified" but I can imagine Doombulls going up in price. 120pts for a 8 wound bruiser does seem a little on the cheap side despite them not being considered op.

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Posted (edited)

I'm assuming units of 30 gors will be 200 max. That's a lot of wounds and 4+ saves to chew through. That, combined, with their large base size and mobility, looks to make them solid board control fodder. 

But I'm the worst player in the world so take that with a grain of salt.

Edited by erasercrumbs
Typo
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4 minutes ago, erasercrumbs said:

I'm assuming units of 30 gors will be 200 max. That'sa lot of wounds and 4+ saves to chew through. That, combined, with their large base size and mobility, looks to make them solid board control fodder. 

But I'm the worst player in the world so take that with a grain of salt.

Actually with how important board control is, they could see some use there since Ungor basically evaporate instead.

We'll have to see how the meta shifts from here though.

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3 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

This may not be "justified" but I can imagine Doombulls going up in price. 120pts for a 8 wound bruiser does seem a little on the cheap side despite them not being considered op.

Man I really hope not. Beastlord is still a way better hero for the Gnarlblade, which is the only thing that makes a melee hero viable in BoC.

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