AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[decker_cky]

17 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Since Tzaangors seem to be in, do you think they'll be worth taking? They seem to be an upgrade over Bestigors despite the higher cost. Skyfires also look like a good deal to get good shooting and MW into the herd.

They are very different already. 30 bestigors are 300 pts (similar to 20 tzaangors) and the bestigors have a much higher damage output (and come with one of the few +1 to hit abilities in the entire chaos faction). 

Tzaangors and tzaangor support units minus fate dice won't be anywhere near as dominant as they can be in tzeentch. The ability to guarantee a moderately long  run/charge, or guarantee some MW from skyfires cannot be underestimated. 

I'd be surprised if the thaumaturge made it into Beasts of Chaos. None of its keywords are anything likely to be imported, unlike tzaangor stuff with the GOR keyword. 

Hoping centigors make it in, and ghorros makes it in as a generic centigor hero. 

 

edit: I also don't expect a wholesale importing of all monsters of chaos into the faction, though I'd love for them to be included. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by decker_cky

[Frozenbeast]

 

Everything that now has a BL if will still get BL if a part from maybe the Bestigor and ungor raiders which to be honest atm are not really intent as BL even if you play Brayherd allegiance (at least for me, the thing is that if you play Brayherd possibly you are playing the Battalion and that include some unit that already are BL as stat). 

What I really hope is that they gave us one profile for melee attack with "horns and hooves". It is illogical to me that if your nature is to kill and you have (naturally) a pair of BIG ****** HORNS on your head, you don t use them to, at least try and kill your foes. something like 4+ 4+ -1 1 (maybe 2 dmg?) so it s hard to hit but they can deal some dmg if the attack goes through. 

 

 

[Lucio]

I'm keen to see how this works out, as I've wanted to an army based on the Order of the Fly, using a mix of Chaos Warrior and Beastmen parts

[Screwface]

Yeah but right now minotaurs are only battleline if you're going full warherd. The option to mix factions while keeping minos as battleline through a doombull general would be awesome. Back in 8th edition I used to run the classic minotaur deathstar (minobus) with a massive unit of gor as backup and a few units of ungor raiders for good measure. I'd love to be able to recreate that.

[The_Yellow_Sign]

7 hours ago, someone2040 said:

I think what's most interesting about the post from GW is the "overlapping allegiance abilities".

This makes me feel we're going to get a few flavours of Beasts of Chaos. Perhaps vanilla Beasts plus Brayherd, Warherd and Thunderscorn flavours. Or maybe you'll unlock certain allegiance abilities for having certain characters in your list, since it talks about overlapping.

Like if you've got a Beastlord, then your Brayherds can ambush. If you've got a Shaggoth, then all your casters get the lightning spell.

Will be interesting to see how it turns out.

 

Edit:

Another thing I hope is that we get a return of Beastlords and Shamans on Chariots (I mean, I REALLY hope that they do in a new chariot kit but by all accounts that doesn't seem to be happening). I doubt it'll happen (because it's not a 'kit' that's sold), but it's so simple just to grab a character and whack it on a Chariot instead of the Bestigor. GW should embrace simple conversions a bit more, like how Grey Knights got a Grand Master in a Nemesis Dreadknight.

Yeah I would be happy if they brought back the Beastlord on Chariot too! I'm working on Gorthor's chariot at the moment and it would be nice to be able to use him as a Beastlord instead of an ordinary chariot.

[Screwface]

It's pure wishlisting, and I know he died in the end times, but how I'd love to finally see a Taurox model. I think in a funny kind of way his aesthetic would really fit with AoS.

[michu]

He's still alive, he just became a cyborg!  

Spoiler

 

[Screwface]

5 minutes ago, michu said:

He's still alive, he just became a cyborg!  

  Hide contents

 

I guess glue a pair of horns on the bumper and you've got yourself a conversion. 

[michu]

He even has second form like Morathi.  

Spoiler

EDIT: Sorry for this little offtop.  

Edited August 27, 2018 by michu

[Popisdead]

On 8/24/2018 at 10:17 PM, Colonel Cabbage said:

Don't. Go with Ghyrstrike from Ghyran. It is +1 to hit AND +1 to wound.

Its from Aqshy, but yes it is very good. Aqshy also has a spell which add 1 to damage from all melee weapons for a unit until your next hero phase.

 

If I play in Aqhsy ill try to get off both spells plus the Chaos Sorcerer Lord's spell onto my Doombull with Ghyrstrike. Then im hitting on 2s, re-rolling 1s, wounding on 2s, re-rolling 1s, with exploding 3s and damage 4! Or I could put the buff on a Ghorgon, who could potentially get up to 54 damage in a turn (40 from 10 blade attacks, and 2D6+2 from bites)!

Well those operate differently.   With the newly named Unpredictable Destruction and an MSU style play you would probably lean too heavily on the one doombull and that's not the true horde style. It isn't uncommon to have Doombulls hitting and wounding on 2s already.  

How did you get a Chaos Sorcerer lord in a Warherd or Brayherd army?  Sounds like generic chaos?

 

On 8/26/2018 at 6:43 AM, kenshin620 said:

The fact that its called Beasts of Chaos (the original name of their army) surely must mean it is going to be like the old original books, not the "only goats and minotaurs"  Beastmen of 7th edition. So I'd assume rules for Troggoths, Thunderscorn, etc (maybe chaos ogors? Other than plague ogors though do they still exist?)

Neat that they have a new swarm. Is that the Flock of Doom endless spell? And the other is Brayhorn Blast or something. Or literally Call of the Wild?

 

Interesting also that the Beastmen rumor was really unknown. Many people going back and forth on whether it was true, false, or simply rolled into Darkoath. Looks like GWs rumor guardians are as vigilant as ever!

In the Path to Glory supplement they were all under BoC and while not good I played them a bit (excuse to finish painting the Shaggoth).  I have to admit, seeing BoC gives me hope for Wanderers, etc.  GW figuring out if they write a book, players with armies will buy their stuff.  Imagine that.  I think chaos trolls are definitively gone.  You are probably write for Flock of Doom and Call of the Wild.

On 8/26/2018 at 7:29 AM, Domowoj said:

I hope we get our 8th edition razorgor chaff missiles back.

Granted,.. you could do it now?  

On 8/26/2018 at 7:31 AM, Izotzuhure said:

I would love to see Moonclaw back. I know it didn't even have a miniature, but for some reason I though it was really cool. 

He would fit in AoS really well IMO.  Not strictly the moonslieb lore but just that style of character and some Mortal Wound comet damage would be good.

On 8/26/2018 at 7:54 AM, kenshin620 said:

If they're gonna bring back a character from ye olde world, they should really do Kholek. 

He would be awesome.

On 8/26/2018 at 7:59 AM, Izotzuhure said:

I wonder if there are any plans to make new Slaangor, Khornegor and Pestigor... Even if it's only at rules level (run and charge, pile in 6", Disgustingly resilient or something like that) with a future update in next Battletomes. 

There is a Pestigor in the Bloodbowl team and in 40k in the Death Guard codex there are fluff comments about them.

On 8/26/2018 at 10:46 AM, Pangu said:

I actually like the 8th edition Beastmen aesthetic. 

A LOT of people did.  GW has missed the boat on them for years

 

On 8/26/2018 at 5:34 PM, Frozenbeast said:

Not sure on centigors as the sculpt are pretty old and costly and unless they rearrange the warscroll A LOT no army will ever include them.

They also became Monsters of Chaos and lost a keyword in the procress on top of what Frozenbeast said.

Granted I own 15 and Ghorros and miss that army.

On 8/27/2018 at 3:14 AM, Screwface said:

I'm hoping Minotaurs are battleline if a Doombull is general.

Me too.  Wanderers have 3 Heroes that change what can be BL and honestly,.. it just makes sense.  You could in 6th.

[kenshin620]

At the very least they could give Malagor his name back, they still sell him! And if khorne can have all his dudes, including scyla, why not the beasts. Seriously who uses scyla?!

Edited August 28, 2018 by kenshin620

[SpiritofHokuto]

A boy can dream of a new centrepiece model kit. A resculpted Shaggoth/Kholek dual kit.

[kenshin620]

6 minutes ago, SpiritofHokuto said:

A boy can dream of a new centrepiece model kit. A resculpted Shaggoth/Kholek dual kit.

Unfortunately they seem content with the finecast shaggoth, unless they make Kholek a completely different kit.

[Blackspine]

Sadly, I doubt that we'll see any new models outside of what's been announced.

I had hoped that we'd have seen Pesitgors with the Maggotkin release, mirroring the Tzaangors with Disciples.

We still may, as the pestigors in the Bloodbowl team are amazing,  but that chance is slim.

 

I'm more happy that they're bringing a sense of cohesion to the herd. There's amazing models and it's been a pity that we couldn't easily combine the herds. I'm very happy that the herdstone and new endless spells give some love to the Herds. The army/armies needed it. The Herds have never been GW's favorite, but a new book is more than a lot of armies get.

 

Plus, hopefully now, I'll get all four jabberslythes on the table. 

[kenshin620]

A weird thought came to me, are Chaos Spawn still going to be in? Sure they may not be the most beloved unit for beasts, but they have also always been there even in the beastmen shift.

[Frozenbeast]

4 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

A weird thought came to me, are Chaos Spawn still going to be in? Sure they may not be the most beloved unit for beasts, but they have also always been there even in the beastmen shift.

I d love to see something that enable us to summon or create some Spawns like it was Morghur profile back in 7th/8th

 

 

[Domowoj]

11 hours ago, Popisdead said:

On 8/26/2018 at 10:29 AM, Domowoj said:

I hope we get our 8th edition razorgor chaff missiles back.

Granted,.. you could do it now? 

While Razorgors do have a warscroll, it was completely unusable except in a GA:Chaos list until the allies mechanic was introduced into AoS. Now you can also ally them into any army that can ally Monsters of Chaos. However, that's not what I'm talking about.

In the previous version of Warhammer Fantasy, razorgors were AWESOME. They were members of the Beastmen faction and they were GOOD units. AoS nerfed them and made them unplayable in the sense that a player would NEVER choose to include a razorgor in their list (except out of pity for the dusty boar on the shelf.)

I want them BACK in the game by means of an updated warscroll. I don't think that's too much to ask for, and this is the opportunity for it to happen.

[decker_cky]

4 hours ago, Frozenbeast said:

I d love to see something that enable us to summon or create some Spawns like it was Morghur profile back in 7th/8th

 

 

Do you really need a hero that rolls a die for each nearby unit at the start of the hero phase, causing d3 mortal wounds on a 6, summoning a spawn if one or more models are killed? Because that's what morghurs ability would look like in age of sigmar.

 

12 hours ago, Popisdead said:

They also became Monsters of Chaos and lost a keyword in the procress on top of what Frozenbeast said.

Granted I own 15 and Ghorros and miss that army.

I have 30+ centigors and ghorros that I'd love to use.

 

That said, I'm really hoping for a 3 ghorgon formation that's effective for its points.

Edited August 29, 2018 by decker_cky

[Frozenbeast]

7 hours ago, decker_cky said:

Do you really need a hero that rolls a die for each nearby unit at the start of the hero phase, causing d3 mortal wounds on a 6, summoning a spawn if one or more models are killed? Because that's what morghurs ability would look like in age of sigmar.

I was referring more to abilities that enable us to summon spawns (either CA or spells) 

 

 

 

Your interpretation of the old rule looks very accurate but it can be changed in other ways? and yeah I remember that rule in the old days. For sure if I am changing enemy models or Ungors for a/some spawns I am fine with it. But again the rule can be anything not just the transposition of the old Morghur's old rule into AoS. 

And yeah I think it will be fluff-y having a mutagenous force rampaging through the battlefield pulsating chaos energy, although I was talking more about direct abilities to summon spawns like the magic in Total War Warhammer.

 

Sure they will give us a Battalion with monsters I was actually counting on that. We will have tons of monsters and not doing something like that will just be illogical (at least to me)

 

 

Edited August 29, 2018 by Frozenbeast

[someone2040]

9 hours ago, decker_cky said:

Do you really need a hero that rolls a die for each nearby unit at the start of the hero phase, causing d3 mortal wounds on a 6, summoning a spawn if one or more models are killed? Because that's what morghurs ability would look like in age of sigmar.

Well... that's not quite how his rules looked. He did have rules in the original Compendium after all.

 

Sadly though, I think we'd probably already know if there were new models, or old models returning. I would much rather see Ghorros Warhoof return as a Centigor Hero that just enables other options building the army. Morghur never really interested me that much.

But I would definitely love to see the Malagor model get some love as a special character again. Even be happy if it's just a Great Bray Shaman variation warscroll that lets him fly around.

[Popisdead]

23 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

At the very least they could give Malagor his name back, they still sell him! And if khorne can have all his dudes, including scyla, why not the beasts. Seriously who uses scyla?!

I used Scyla a lot in 8th because he had LD 10 which was nice to bring to a Throgg army.  Malagor would be awesome.  I miss him.  I felt he was a good nod towards Tzeentch.

11 hours ago, decker_cky said:

I have 30+ centigors and ghorros that I'd love to use.

 

That said, I'm really hoping for a 3 ghorgon formation that's effective for its points.

Oh nice!!

I used the KHorne formation from the Godbeasts(?) book a while ago.  (3 x Gorbull units, 3 x Ghorgons) I just paid 200 or 250 points for it.  We played to the scenario as well.  Not having points for that was pretty dumb on GWs part.  Fingers crossed

[Popisdead]

12 hours ago, Domowoj said:

While Razorgors do have a warscroll, it was completely unusable except in a GA:Chaos list until the allies mechanic was introduced into AoS. Now you can also ally them into any army that can ally Monsters of Chaos. However, that's not what I'm talking about.

In the previous version of Warhammer Fantasy, razorgors were AWESOME. They were members of the Beastmen faction and they were GOOD units. AoS nerfed them and made them unplayable in the sense that a player would NEVER choose to include a razorgor in their list (except out of pity for the dusty boar on the shelf.)

I want them BACK in the game by means of an updated warscroll. I don't think that's too much to ask for, and this is the opportunity for it to happen.

Well that is a bit of an overstatement.  The use of a single Razorgor and Great Eagle was more defined by the mechanics of the rules of previous editions.  

They lack synergy but there is nothing stopping anyone from taking a single Razorgor and making use of it.  

Also I imagine they and the finecast model will be dropped from the game.  I get you are angry (I have 30 years of Wood Elf models) but I think things just changed here.  There are a few factors involved.  

[decker_cky]

2 hours ago, someone2040 said:

Well... that's not quite how his rules looked. He did have rules in the original Compendium after all.

 

Sadly though, I think we'd probably already know if there were new models, or old models returning. I would much rather see Ghorros Warhoof return as a Centigor Hero that just enables other options building the army. Morghur never really interested me that much.

But I would definitely love to see the Malagor model get some love as a special character again. Even be happy if it's just a Great Bray Shaman variation warscroll that lets him fly around.

Yeah, compendium morghur was much more tame (probably worse and less thematic than what I described). 

6th edition morghur was the best, when he defined the entire army (your army had no general, but could make hordes of spawn from all nearby units, and he gave bestigors the skirmish+ rule beast herds had). Crazy and didn't fit 6th edition warhammer, but evocative. His 7th edition iteration was much more tame, as was his compendium iteration. 

[Domowoj]

1 hour ago, Popisdead said:

Well that is a bit of an overstatement.  The use of a single Razorgor and Great Eagle was more defined by the mechanics of the rules of previous editions.  

They lack synergy but there is nothing stopping anyone from taking a single Razorgor and making use of it.  

Also I imagine they and the finecast model will be dropped from the game.  I get you are angry (I have 30 years of Wood Elf models) but I think things just changed here.  There are a few factors involved.  

I'm sorry if it seemed that way to you, but I was attempting to clarify my hopeful sentiment using emphasis. I was clarifying because it seemed as if you shrugged off my original post as irrelevant. I don't believe anything I said should give you the impression that I'm angry about this; in fact I am very excited because we, as Beasts players, will be receiving some GW love soon. We might not get everything we hope for, but we will get a lot more than we have now! I've been playing long enough to know how this works (certain things get squatted or phased out mostly because of the impracticality of trying keep everything afloat and balanced.) I won't lose sleep if razorgors are gone for good, but I was just trying to exercise positivity. I guess it didn't work. ?

While razorgors did benefit from the old game mechanics, I don't think it defined them. They had a good statline. It's easy enough to make them work in Age of Sigmar. Either give them an impact hit, a damage boost, or a points reduction. As they are now, no one ever includes them. GW could have made them compendium easily enough, but they didn't. They did squat the Razorgor Chariot however, so I'm not sure how that bodes.

[erasercrumbs]

I hope there will be more ways to bolster your units' bravery, or simply reduce unit losses for multiple units at once, like the Grey Seer. Morale losses are a crippling weakness with gors.