AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Myrdin]

26 minutes ago, tupavko said:

The Beastlord is basically the same:

- got run and charge

- does NOT reroll hits anymore, but gets exploding 6s vs. heroes

 

Jabber-thing is still pretty much the same but "Aura of Madness now is:

"roll 3d6 for an each enemy unit within 3'' of this model selected to fight. If the result is superior to the Bravery value of that unit, the unit gains +1A on its melee weapons but for each to hit roll of 1 it suffers 1 mortal wound after all of its attacks have been solved."

the Battalion is cool but limited to the box content (shaman, named so no artifacts) 2 units of Bullgors and a Ghorgon.
All WARHERD units get to add 1 to hit rolls ONLY if wholy within 12'' of the named Shaman

 

And again with the stupid "I give yo something but take much more away from you" rules.

I fail to see why would anyone bring a Jabberslythe now. Even less then before. Its essentially a free Buff bot for the enem units. You give the enemy unit +1 attack, turning them into murder machines and the only drawback is 1MW for each 1 rolled ? AFTER RESOLVING THE ATTACK! Just how is this not a free buff for the enemy, HOW ?! This is just plain mockery!

LOL I am sure any of you`d happy take that tradeoff if it was usable on our own units.... Who cares if few models die. You can always reroll using a command ability.

12" aura for units like bullgors who use big beefy bases.... again what were they thinking. And a worthless named shaman. A BRAY SHAMAN with Warherds.... zero synergy beyond being just a spell bot.

Good thing I didnt expect anything becuase none of this is really good. The Beastlord is kinda good, but can no longer be used with Gnarled Blade due to no more rerolls.

Very dissapointing in general. I mean, these people arent even trying FFS!
Or actually the are trying very hard.... to make it worse than it was before. This is just ridiculous at this point!

Edited May 28, 2021 by Myrdin

[tupavko]

7 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

And again with the stupid "I give yo something but take much more away from you" rules.

I fail to see why would anyone bring a Jabberslythe now. Even less then before. Its essentially a free Buff bot for the enem units. You give the enemy unit +1 attack, turning them into murder machines and the only drawback is 1MW for each 1 rolled ? AFTER RESOLVING THE ATTACK! Just how is this not a free buff for the enemy, HOW ?! This is just plain mockery!

LOL I am sure any of you`d happy take that tradeoff if it was usable on our own units.... Who cares if few models die. You can always reroll using a command ability.

12" aura for units like bullgors who use big beefy bases.... again what were they thinking. And a worthless named shaman. A BRAY SHAMAN with Warherds.... zero synergy beyond being just a spell bot.

Good thing I didnt expect anything becuase none of this is really good. The Beastlord is kinda good, but can no longer be used with Gnarled Blade due to no more rerolls.

Very dissapointing in general. I mean, these people arent even trying FFS!
Or actually the are trying very hard.... to make it worse than it was before. This is just ridiculous at this point!

Whoever wrote these rules, had really little time/will/idea on what to do with BoC... The general faction rules are kind of OK, but still not a huge buff, the rest is pretty much wasted paper...

[Myrdin]

10 minutes ago, tupavko said:

Whoever wrote these rules, had really little time/will/idea on what to do with BoC... The general faction rules are kind of OK, but still not a huge buff, the rest is pretty much wasted paper...

But I dont really mean the "meh" part of it.

Jabberslythe is literally a Buff bot for your enemy. I cant believe this got greenlit.

Hell make it a 3D6 rolls, if the unit fails the roll they take few MW. Bam done. To intentionally write a rule that gives them +1 attack, is not an oversight or lazyness. This is intentional and kick in the teeth of anyone who was hoping to bring their Jabberslythe. There is a saying to not ascribe to Malice what could be defined by stupidity, but to me this is just malicious. Our army is in dire needs of inner army buffs and synergies, and instead we get a unit that buffs your opponent units... like what type of drug was the writer taking to come up with this ? How does this even make any sense...

Edited May 28, 2021 by Myrdin

[peasant]

WoW so much nivel additions.

Have you read the new story of today in Warhammer community?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/05/28/broken-realms-fiction-the-turnskins-tale/

[peasant]

On 5/27/2021 at 7:04 PM, Popisdead said:

I think Dark skin works best.  Classic colours of Bestial Brown and shaded with Scorched brown and maybe highlight using Vermin brown as it's more red and will be less chalky which can happen with bleached bone and Scorched Brown. (sorry I use next to no new colours so far other than contrast Snakebite, I'm sure there are good replacements)

 

Tomorrow I will grab a box of 3 bullgors & try to paint them dark skinned, wish me luck!
I ve tried several times but I feel the hype god shall guide my brush this time

[Maddpainting]

After seeing the translated rules, I have no hope for our book now. It is clear GW has no idea what our issues are. 

BL could move 9" this was already fast enough and let me charge turn 1. Exploding hits is not helpful for him. The only reason to take him over a Doombull was the re-rolls vs Heroes, his aura almost never works as you can just kill him before you attack with other units. Exploding hits makes me not want to take him now, especially for 5pts more.....

Jabber - Give enemy +1 atks to make them deal MW's, so its a suicide unit.

Dragon Ogres didn't need to deal 1 MW and heal 1, thats not what is wrong with them, this doesn't want me to take them anymore than why i would take them now. They still are extremely bad at everything.

Bullgors MW charge is fine, they would have had it from day 1, still not really helping them fix what we want them to do, dealing 1-3 more damage is not the fix. 

Gors (not the keyword) can re-roll charges out of Ambush too bad they are one of the worst melee units in the book. If summoning counted as an Ambush that would make Gors a good option to summon over Ungors, but nope. This again doesn't address the issues with Gors, they are still not worth taking. They can I guess have a change to tie up a unit now? But its still a 9" charge even with re-rolls you can't relay on it.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Maddpainting

[Derptau]

15 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

After seeing the translated rules, I have no hope for our book now. It is clear GW has no idea what our issues are. 

BL could move 9" this was already fast enough and let me charge turn 1. Exploding hits is not helpful for him. The only reason to take him over a Doombull was the re-rolls vs Heroes, his aura almost never works as you can just kill him before you attack with other units. Exploding hits makes me not want to take him now, especially for 5pts more.....

Jabber - Translation is a mess, need to see it, it could be
We get +1atk but take MWs
Enemy gets +1atks but they take MW's
They get -1 atks but we take MW's
Until I know i'll hold off. 

Dragon Ogres didn't need to deal 1 MW and heal 1, thats not what is wrong with them, this doesn't want me to take them anymore than why i would take them now. They still are extremely bad at everything.

Bullgors MW charge is fine, they would have had it from day 1, still not really helping them fix what we want them to do, dealing 1-3 more damage is not the fix. 

Gors (not the keyword) can re-roll charges out of Ambush too bad they are one of the worst melee units in the book. If summoning counted as an Ambush that would make Gors a good option to summon over Ungors, but nope. This again doesn't address the issues with Gors, they are still not worth taking. They can I guess have a change to tie up a unit now? But its still a 9" charge even with re-rolls you can't relay on it.

Can I ask, where are these rules drops?

 

[Feorag]

The Beastlord Grisly trophy no longer costs a command point.

Run near some enlightened and they become really potent! 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Feorag

[Lucank]

44 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

After seeing the translated rules, I have no hope for our book now. It is clear GW has no idea what our issues are. 

BL could move 9" this was already fast enough and let me charge turn 1. Exploding hits is not helpful for him. The only reason to take him over a Doombull was the re-rolls vs Heroes, his aura almost never works as you can just kill him before you attack with other units. Exploding hits makes me not want to take him now, especially for 5pts more.....

Jabber - Translation is a mess, need to see it, it could be
We get +1atk but take MWs
Enemy gets +1atks but they take MW's
They get -1 atks but we take MW's
Until I know i'll hold off. 

Dragon Ogres didn't need to deal 1 MW and heal 1, thats not what is wrong with them, this doesn't want me to take them anymore than why i would take them now. They still are extremely bad at everything.

Bullgors MW charge is fine, they would have had it from day 1, still not really helping them fix what we want them to do, dealing 1-3 more damage is not the fix. 

Gors (not the keyword) can re-roll charges out of Ambush too bad they are one of the worst melee units in the book. If summoning counted as an Ambush that would make Gors a good option to summon over Ungors, but nope. This again doesn't address the issues with Gors, they are still not worth taking. They can I guess have a change to tie up a unit now? But its still a 9" charge even with re-rolls you can't relay on it.

As an italian I can translate:
Enemy gets +1 AT but suffers mortals on 1s to hit

[Maddpainting]

23 minutes ago, Feorag said:

The Beastlord Grisly trophy no longer costs a command point.

Run near some enlightened and they become really potent! 

 

 

He never lives long enough to work though, unless he still needs to make a kill he will be the next target.

[Maddpainting]

8 minutes ago, Lucank said:

As an italian I can translate:
Enemy gets +1 AT but suffers mortals on 1s to hit

I have updated my information. Thanks. Its a pure suicide unit now.

[Vaporlocke]

4 hours ago, Myrdin said:

But I dont really mean the "meh" part of it.

Jabberslythe is literally a Buff bot for your enemy. I cant believe this got greenlit.

Hell make it a 3D6 rolls, if the unit fails the roll they take few MW. Bam done. To intentionally write a rule that gives them +1 attack, is not an oversight or lazyness. This is intentional and kick in the teeth of anyone who was hoping to bring their Jabberslythe. There is a saying to not ascribe to Malice what could be defined by stupidity, but to me this is just malicious. Our army is in dire needs of inner army buffs and synergies, and instead we get a unit that buffs your opponent units... like what type of drug was the writer taking to come up with this ? How does this even make any sense...

I mean, it does have a weird synergy with its bile blood ability, so now they have more attacks to roll 1's and take MW, and any wounds that go through cause more MW's... 

 

But yeah, still terrible, which is pretty much par for the course for us. Thanks, Bin Guy. 

[Chaos Shepard]

I'm sorry but I don't like getting upset over information I am getting second hand. I also don't see the point over getting upset over what is in essence mostly minor buffs. The Jabberslythe receiving a lateral move at worst.

[Skreech Verminking]

Sounds terrible, what I’ve heard so far.

Still who knows, maybe, just maybe there has been a small mistake in the english translation towards the italien booklet.

Just like the time, where you could add 1 to all save roles of a thousand son unit through all is dust, while in german, it basically only said armorsaves.

At this point waiting might be the better option.

Considering that there are new rules for 4of the armies I play in aos, I’ll happily take the risk of bad rules and buy the book anyways.

[Skreech Verminking]

Yeah never mind, just found the rules of the jabberslythe in english, it’s literally a suicide bomb.😂

So hoping here that we’ll be getting it for not more then 10points after the next points update

[Ganigumo]

The BL change baffles me. Why didn't they just take out the requirement to kill a model and have killing a model/hero still enable hit rerolls?

Did they think BoC would be too good?

I have no idea why you'd take him over a great bray shaman outside of the gavespawn artifact now. Especially since hes 95 points and we have no other 5 point units.

Thunderscorn "buff" is a joke, I laughed when I read it.

gors rerolling charges is interesting at least, with a smaller board size it might be worth ambushing a unit into the side of something to minimize their damage taken.

 

Warherd stole the show. Impact hits, and a battalion (2x bullgor, shaman, ghorgon) and they all get +1 to hit if they're near the shaman. Time will tell if battalions stick around though.

[Envyus]

11 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

The BL change baffles me. Why didn't they just take out the requirement to kill a model and have killing a model/hero still enable hit rerolls?

 

Beastlord seems better other then no longer rerolling his own hits. As he no longer needs to use a command ability. 

[Ganigumo]

9 minutes ago, Envyus said:

Beastlord seems better other then no longer rerolling his own hits. As he no longer needs to use a command ability. 

Old BL damage vs a 4+:

Normal: 2.07

Vs hero: 2.77

New BL damage vs a 4+:

Normal: 1.78

Vs hero:2.22

He's still weak because in order to get any kind of utility out of him we need to:

1. Kill a model with the beastlord

2. Have a brayherd unit within 18" (easy)

3. Have the beastlord not die by our next activation

4. Have our other brayherd unit not die by our next activation

Not needing to spend a CP is nice, but the buff is weaker and still way too difficult to pull off.

This seems like a completely lateral move to me, but then his points went up too.

[Chaos Shepard]

Ok I have finally had a chance to see these changes with my own eyes. Here are my thoughts.

I like the changes to the Beastlord. They can actually keep up with a unit of Gors/Ungors/Bestigors now. This gives the ability to actually us Grisly Trophy. Next, you can actually use Grisly Trophy. Even in the rare circumstance that I could activate it, I often would rather save the command point for something more important like Inspiring Presence. I am going to start using the Wildfire Taurus again. I should actually see Grisly Trophy in action. Beastlord is still going to need an artifact to make taking one justified. If you really need that re-roll 1 for a critical combat you can always use a command point. Probably didn't need the points increase but I will call this a lateral move at worse.

The Jabberslythe just misses the mark. I am not mad just disappointed. It did get some nice buffs else where. Wow a 4+ save on a monster, am I dreaming. If only the Aura of Madness affect friendly units as well, this thing would be amazing. The other problem is the natural roles of 1. So many armies out there can simply reroll 1 and avoid this penalty all together, not to mention the generic command ability everyone has access to that gives a unit reroll 1s. Oh well, the Jabberslythe went from trash unit you never take to trash unit you never take unless you really want to try some shenanigans that probably won't work.

The Primal Instincts are literally just buffs with no downsides. Could this have been better, sure lots of things could be better but I don't think that is enough justification to be upset at this. Actually I think the Raging Storm is amazing. Not necessarily for the Dragon Ogors but for the Shaggoth. Every combat phase heal 1 wound on a 2+. That's going to make the Shaggoth hard to ping to death. Next, it doesn't say you have to be in combat to heal just on the table, and combat happen twice every battle round. So the Shaggoth could say sit on the Herdstone and stab itself all day and be no worse for wear.

As for the battalion, it sounds like a good battalion. A nice cheap battalion with a nice buff. This is the only one I haven't seen in person so could someone tell me if the +1 bonus only applies to combat or could it buff the Cygor's bolder as well?

[Vaporlocke]

1 hour ago, Ganigumo said:

 

He's still weak because in order to get any kind of utility out of him we need to:

1. Kill a model with the beastlord

2. Have a brayherd unit within 18" (easy)

3. Have the beastlord not die by our next activation

4. Have our other brayherd unit not die by our next activation

Not needing to spend a CP is nice, but the buff is weaker and still way too difficult to pull off.

This seems like a completely lateral move to me, but then his points went up too.

I feel like combo charging him with a bigger (20-30) unit of Bestigors is going to be the way to go, either by getting creative with pile in moves to minimize the BL getting hit back or by sending him into a nearby chaff unit while the Bestigor hit the real target. It won't be easy but you don't play BoC if you want easy.

[tupavko]

2 hours ago, Chaos Shepard said:

Ok I have finally had a chance to see these changes with my own eyes. Here are my thoughts.

I like the changes to the Beastlord. They can actually keep up with a unit of Gors/Ungors/Bestigors now. This gives the ability to actually us Grisly Trophy. Next, you can actually use Grisly Trophy. Even in the rare circumstance that I could activate it, I often would rather save the command point for something more important like Inspiring Presence. I am going to start using the Wildfire Taurus again. I should actually see Grisly Trophy in action. Beastlord is still going to need an artifact to make taking one justified. If you really need that re-roll 1 for a critical combat you can always use a command point. Probably didn't need the points increase but I will call this a lateral move at worse.

The Jabberslythe just misses the mark. I am not mad just disappointed. It did get some nice buffs else where. Wow a 4+ save on a monster, am I dreaming. If only the Aura of Madness affect friendly units as well, this thing would be amazing. The other problem is the natural roles of 1. So many armies out there can simply reroll 1 and avoid this penalty all together, not to mention the generic command ability everyone has access to that gives a unit reroll 1s. Oh well, the Jabberslythe went from trash unit you never take to trash unit you never take unless you really want to try some shenanigans that probably won't work.

The Primal Instincts are literally just buffs with no downsides. Could this have been better, sure lots of things could be better but I don't think that is enough justification to be upset at this. Actually I think the Raging Storm is amazing. Not necessarily for the Dragon Ogors but for the Shaggoth. Every combat phase heal 1 wound on a 2+. That's going to make the Shaggoth hard to ping to death. Next, it doesn't say you have to be in combat to heal just on the table, and combat happen twice every battle round. So the Shaggoth could say sit on the Herdstone and stab itself all day and be no worse for wear.

As for the battalion, it sounds like a good battalion. A nice cheap battalion with a nice buff. This is the only one I haven't seen in person so could someone tell me if the +1 bonus only applies to combat or could it buff the Cygor's bolder as well?

There is no cygor in the battalion. It's just +1 to hit in melee for WARHERDS if wholy within 12" of the named shaman. 

The battalion is:

Shaman (he gets +2A with his staff) 

2x bullgors

1x ghorgon

That's it, nothing more and nothing less. 

[Chaos Shepard]

29 minutes ago, tupavko said:

There is no cygor in the battalion. It's just +1 to hit in melee for WARHERDS if wholy within 12" of the named shaman. 

The battalion is:

Shaman (he gets +2A with his staff) 

2x bullgors

1x ghorgon

That's it, nothing more and nothing less. 

Thanks for the details.

I thought you could take a Cygor because I recall the Cygor being mentioned as part of the battalion box. I know the Cygor and Gorgon are the same kit, but I figured if they specifically mention the Cygor then it would surely be part of the battalion.

[Vaporlocke]

As far as the Beastlord goes I've still got a glimmer of hope that in the base 3rd ed rules paired weapons will get a natural reroll 1's ability which would justify the switch over to exploding 6's on heroes. 

[Kamose]

Overall I'm happy enough with the changes.  I was playing a game today in fact where the changes to the Beastlord and Gors would've been quite useful.  Rerolling charges out of ambush ought to just apply to all Brayherd units frankly or at least all Gor and Bestigor units.  It doesn't address the problem that Gor have functionally 0 damage output but we'll prolly have to wait for a new book before that's addressed.

I like that the Beastlord doesn't need to pay anything for his ability.  Its still not great but at least its free.  Why do the Beastlord's rules imply that once the fighting starts he just wants to suicide-berzerker himself into the most hopelessly outmatched fight he can find?  I get the idea that he wants to fight enemy leaders but he's just not good at it.  He'd struggle mightily to kill a Battlemage in a turn let alone a Stardrake or Carnosaur!

As for the Jabberslythe's new rules, I like 'em!  Its a big ugly water balloon full of acid blood you throw at whatever needs some mortal wounds on it.  Now the number of mortal wounds is limited by the enemy unit's attack characteristic (+1).  It makes me want to summon a Jabber and send it into the nearest Saurus Knight block churning out 80+ attacks!  That's the big difference now; before you wanted to throw the Jabber into something that would easily wound it so it would bleed on them.  Now you wanna send it into a unit with high numbers of attacks so they hurt themselves and then you bleed on them.  I'm keen to give it a try!

These are interesting changes and I'll enjoy trying them out but we really do need a book rewrite.  Battletome: Conditional Clause is just hopelessly outmatched right now. 🐐

 

PS: What do you all mean by saying that the Jabberslythe is a pure suicide unit "NOW"?  What exactly were you doing with them before (other than not ever using them)?  It doesn't do anything else. For a Jabberslythe, existence is pain. It's the Mr. Meseeks of Warhammer.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Kamose

[Maddpainting]

On 5/29/2021 at 12:50 AM, Chaos Shepard said:

Ok I have finally had a chance to see these changes with my own eyes. Here are my thoughts.

I like the changes to the Beastlord. They can actually keep up with a unit of Gors/Ungors/Bestigors now. This gives the ability to actually us Grisly Trophy. Next, you can actually use Grisly Trophy. Even in the rare circumstance that I could activate it, I often would rather save the command point for something more important like Inspiring Presence. I am going to start using the Wildfire Taurus again. I should actually see Grisly Trophy in action. Beastlord is still going to need an artifact to make taking one justified. If you really need that re-roll 1 for a critical combat you can always use a command point. Probably didn't need the points increase but I will call this a lateral move at worse.

The Jabberslythe just misses the mark. I am not mad just disappointed. It did get some nice buffs else where. Wow a 4+ save on a monster, am I dreaming. If only the Aura of Madness affect friendly units as well, this thing would be amazing. The other problem is the natural roles of 1. So many armies out there can simply reroll 1 and avoid this penalty all together, not to mention the generic command ability everyone has access to that gives a unit reroll 1s. Oh well, the Jabberslythe went from trash unit you never take to trash unit you never take unless you really want to try some shenanigans that probably won't work.

The Primal Instincts are literally just buffs with no downsides. Could this have been better, sure lots of things could be better but I don't think that is enough justification to be upset at this. Actually I think the Raging Storm is amazing. Not necessarily for the Dragon Ogors but for the Shaggoth. Every combat phase heal 1 wound on a 2+. That's going to make the Shaggoth hard to ping to death. Next, it doesn't say you have to be in combat to heal just on the table, and combat happen twice every battle round. So the Shaggoth could say sit on the Herdstone and stab itself all day and be no worse for wear.

As for the battalion, it sounds like a good battalion. A nice cheap battalion with a nice buff. This is the only one I haven't seen in person so could someone tell me if the +1 bonus only applies to combat or could it buff the Cygor's bolder as well?

It says Hit rolls, but the Battalion says Ghorgon only from what I can see in the pictures.

Also I hate the new Beastlord rules, this just means I have no reason to even take him over a Doombull until new3.0 rules says otherwise. I only took him b.c he was a real character threat, his aura is basically impossible to use b.c of the IGOUGO combat of AoS. I don't need him to charge turn 1, so his speed is not a problem, a flat 9" and a run turn 1 (Near Shaman) means he can still move 9" turn 2 and charge, that is 18+D6" movement.

Edited May 30, 2021 by Maddpainting