AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Myrdin]

So we are planning on doing 2v2 mini tournament of pairs.

1000pts each player. Vanguard, max pts limit for units 250 (judged on individual bases in regards with the army and rest of your units). No battalions, No endless spells. Realms artifacts allowed.

So here is what I am planning to bring. Nothing overly cheesy, but not without the teeth to bite:

2x Shaman. Knowing Eye, Wild Rampage and Vicious Strangle thorns (Herdstone Shammy) 

10 Gors with shields

2x10 Bestigors

2x5 Centigors

1x Razorgor

6x Enlyghtened on Discs (280 pts)

*Instead of the Pig and gors I could have gone 2x10 Ungors, but ... I dont have them on me atm. All my ungors went to a buddy of mine to "catch some colors" if you catch my drift. Thus Gors and Piggy chan will have to pick up the slack of sacrifices and back up objective holders.

The Tzaangors are the only unit over the unit limit, but so far I have not heard that being an issue from the Org. As said above, the its judged on unit per unit per army individual bases. And as such some people are bringing as much cheese as is possible to cram into those 1K lists and unit limits, thus  maybe because of that there was no objection on my list so far.

Not really sure which Warlord Trait to pick. Also not bringing any Greatfrays, as I think, in a small format like this they dont offer as much value as with 1500+pts non battalion restricted games. Was shortly considering going with Allherd (shocking I know...), but you need the Eye for that, to get those extra CP > Summoning points. And for that you need a Battalion since you are forced to take that garbage artifact Allherd forces upon you.

I know people here had some degree of success with 1K Summoning lists, and I was wondering if you could share some insight in how you built them.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Myrdin

[Magnus The Blue]

5 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

2x Shaman. Knowing Eye, Wild Rampage and Vicious Strangle thorns (Herdstone Shammy) 

10 Gors with shields

2x10 Bestigors

2x5 Centigors

1x Razorgor

6x Enlyghtened on Discs (280 pts)

*Instead of the Pig and gors I could have gone 2x10 Ungors, but ... I dont have them on me atm. All my ungors went to a buddy of mine to "catch some colors" if you catch my drift. Thus Gors and Piggy chan will have to pick up the slack of sacrifices and back up objective holders.

Unless I'm mistaken the list doesn't have enough battleline (Gors), as the bestigors are only battleline with a Beastlord General. With that in mind and your maining Brayherd forcus, I'd swap your Knowing eye and shaman for Beastlord general with the Volcanic Axe, or go Gravespawn and Mutating Gnarlblade (free spawns are great in small games). If not I'd probably swap the Gors and Razor Gors for 2 *10 ungors for screening and fulfilling battleline.

[Satyrical Sophist]

15 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Unless I'm mistaken the list doesn't have enough battleline (Gors), as the bestigors are only battleline with a Beastlord General. With that in mind and your maining Brayherd forcus, I'd swap your Knowing eye and shaman for Beastlord general with the Volcanic Axe, or go Gravespawn and Mutating Gnarlblade (free spawns are great in small games). If not I'd probably swap the Gors and Razor Gors for 2 *10 ungors for screening and fulfilling battleline.

You are mistaken. Bestigor are battle line with either beastlord or great bray shaman as general. All the BoC hero choices unlock additional battle line if they are the general.

[Myrdin]

26 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

Unless I'm mistaken the list doesn't have enough battleline (Gors), as the bestigors are only battleline with a Beastlord General. With that in mind and your maining Brayherd forcus, I'd swap your Knowing eye and shaman for Beastlord general with the Volcanic Axe, or go Gravespawn and Mutating Gnarlblade (free spawns are great in small games). If not I'd probably swap the Gors and Razor Gors for 2 *10 ungors for screening and fulfilling battleline.

They are Battleline with both BL and Shammy.

As I wrote in the highlighted text I am not taking Ungors because I dont want to but because I dont have them at hand., so swapping them in is not an option.

I will consider the Gnarllblade Beastlord, but honestly at these points I dont wanna bother with Greatfrays at all tbh. Plus that one model is quite powerful and I dont wanna be "That guy" who brings something like that into a small scale game. Granted there will be some people trying to squish in as much cheese as humanly possible but I dont want to be like that.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Myrdin

[The_Yellow_Sign]

8 hours ago, Myrdin said:

So we are planning on doing 2v2 mini tournament of pairs.

1000pts each player. Vanguard, max pts limit for units 250 (judged on individual bases in regards with the army and rest of your units). No battalions, No endless spells. Realms artifacts allowed.

So here is what I am planning to bring. Nothing overly cheesy, but not without the teeth to bite:

2x Shaman. Knowing Eye, Wild Rampage and Vicious Strangle thorns (Herdstone Shammy) 

10 Gors with shields

2x10 Bestigors

2x5 Centigors

1x Razorgor

6x Enlyghtened on Discs (280 pts)

*Instead of the Pig and gors I could have gone 2x10 Ungors, but ... I dont have them on me atm. All my ungors went to a buddy of mine to "catch some colors" if you catch my drift. Thus Gors and Piggy chan will have to pick up the slack of sacrifices and back up objective holders.

The Tzaangors are the only unit over the unit limit, but so far I have not heard that being an issue from the Org. As said above, the its judged on unit per unit per army individual bases. And as such some people are bringing as much cheese as is possible to cram into those 1K lists and unit limits, thus  maybe because of that there was no objection on my list so far.

Not really sure which Warlord Trait to pick. Also not bringing any Greatfrays, as I think, in a small format like this they dont offer as much value as with 1500+pts non battalion restricted games. Was shortly considering going with Allherd (shocking I know...), but you need the Eye for that, to get those extra CP > Summoning points. And for that you need a Battalion since you are forced to take that garbage artifact Allherd forces upon you.

I know people here had some degree of success with 1K Summoning lists, and I was wondering if you could share some insight in how you built them.

Get a Tzaangor Shaman to buff the Enlightened; +1 to hit makes a huge difference to their output. Also, swap 10 Gors for Ungors. Almost no reason to ever take 10 Gors except as a tax for Desolating Beastherd.

Edited February 21, 2019 by The_Yellow_Sign

[Myrdin]

It would be nice if people started reading the whole text, not just taking a quick look and comment on it...

[Sauriv]

41 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

It would be nice if people started reading the whole text, not just taking a quick look and comment on it...

So u are only interested in:

1. Suggestion for a trait

2. Suggested list (or "insights") for a summoning 1k list. 

And you dont want any alternative changes for the list you posted.. 

So. 

1. If you only have brey-shaman i would give him shadowpelt as trait, because that is the only noncombat trait. Or maybe the ambush trait if you are planning on using ambush (i would not) 

 

[Myrdin]

40 minutes ago, Sauriv said:

So u are only interested in:

1. Suggestion for a trait

2. Suggested list (or "insights") for a summoning 1k list. 

And you dont want any alternative changes for the list you posted.. 

So. 

1. If you only have brey-shaman i would give him shadowpelt as trait, because that is the only noncombat trait. Or maybe the ambush trait if you are planning on using ambush (i would not) 

 

I am referring to different people clearly not reading (or maybe just ignoring),  that I CANT take Ungors, and yet they are suggesting I swap this and that for Ungors.I am well open to other ideas, as stated with the Gnarlblade Beastlord, or Tzaangor Shaman. 

So I am open to alternatives to this list, but ones that do not include ungors or standard Tzaangors (the first one I dont have at hand, the second one I dont have at all).

For the Tzaaman I guess dropping one unit of Centigors and Replace one Bray Shaman would be the best move.

Also, is there a point going Allherd for the extra summoning even when I dont have the Eye to get extra CP ?

Since its a small scale game I think CP wont be really that useful for combat related purposes. The best use I can see is to guarantee a 6" Run for unit that tries to grab objectives. And some people did say that summoning in low points games can be quite powerful.

....Or should I skip going BoC alliegance and go with Chaos instead ? Would loose Herdstone and Ambush, but could do something better with Traits and Artifacts maybe... ?

Edited February 22, 2019 by Myrdin

[SwampHeart]

Hoping to get some feedback on three lists I've been tinkering around with. 

List One (this is my current list, I'm familiar with, I've played lots of games with it)

Spoiler

-Dragon Ogre Shaggoth - General (Ancient Beyond Knowing), Hailstorm
-Great Bray Shaman - Wild Rampage, The Aetherquartz Brooch
-Tzaangor Shaman - Tendrils of Atrophy
-30x Tzaangors
-30x Ungor Raiders
-10x Ungors
-10x Ungors
-9x Enlightened on Disc
-6x Dragon Ogres

The strengths of the list are good screening (Tzaangors and Raiders), a strong defensive pivot (Dragon Ogres), and 2 capable hammers (Enlightened and Tzaangors). Its a high drop army that can be vulnerable to battle shock (though with Ancient + the Brooch I usually have the CP to protect myself), that doesn't do much in the magic phase. It does have some ranged poke (30 Ungors are a fairly reliable poke unit) but it doesn't do much against characters generally speaking. 

List Two (a variation)

Spoiler

-Tzaangor Shaman - General (Shadow Pelt), Tendrils of Atrophy
-Great Bray Shaman - Wild Rampage, Brooch
-Dragon Ogre Shaggoth - (Spell of Choice)
-20x Tzaangors
-30x Raiders
-10x Ungors
-10x Ungors
-9x Enlightened on Disc
-6x Skyfire

So overall a pretty similar list to the above. It loses a little in both body count (Tzaangors) and wounds (Skyfires versus Dragon Ogres). It also relies a lot more on the smaller Tzaangor unit to be its primary pivot. However it does pick up another effective combat unit that add significant ranged capacity to the list (particularly for shooting at monsters). The main reason I'm looking at this list is FEC/Skaven coming into the meta - we're going to be seeing Gristlegore Dragon/Terrorgheists as well as Thanquol/Verminlords running around. I think adding the skyfires will give me more chance to deal damage to these monsters at range where. The loss of CP from the Shaggoth does make me wary as well. 

List Three (A change of pace, inspired by Joel's list at CanCon)

Spoiler

-Beastlord - Mutating Gnarlblade
-Great Bray Shaman - General
-30x Bestigors
-10x Ungors
-10x Ungors
-30x Ungor Raiders
-30x Ungor Raiders
-Tuskgor Chariot
Desolating Brayherd
-Tzaangor Shaman
-9x Enlightened
-Balefire Taurus

Obvious benefits are greatly decreased drops (3) - the body count is still very strong as well. This list also helps me pick up some of the shooting I feel is missing in the first list (by taking advantage of 60 Ungor shots with exploding 6s. It still packs in the Enlightened and Shaman support (who's also good at casting the Taurus in the most beneficial position). Really the downside here is ending up using Bestigors as the pivot over Tzaangors (half as many wounds, no 6+ save after save). However I do get a one CP + a bonus artifact to play with in this list. 

Sorry for the density of the lists but thanks for checking them out.

[The_Yellow_Sign]

8 hours ago, Myrdin said:

....Or should I skip going BoC alliegance and go with Chaos instead ? Would loose Herdstone and Ambush, but could do something better with Traits and Artifacts maybe... ?

No, that's a very bad idea.

[Xasto]

Going with this list for a tournament tomorrow! Wish me luck

Phantasmagoria of Fate.pdf

[The_Yellow_Sign]

17 hours ago, Xasto said:

Going with this list for a tournament tomorrow! Wish me luck

Phantasmagoria of Fate.pdf

Good luck! I like the 6 Skyfires and 6 Enlightened; that's what I usually run when I'm going for a Tzeentchy  list. The only questionable choice is Cogs here, because it will benefit your opponent as well and reduce your speed advantage. Not necessarily a bad choice though.

[Xasto]

1 hour ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Good luck! I like the 6 Skyfires and 6 Enlightened; that's what I usually run when I'm going for a Tzeentchy  list. The only questionable choice is Cogs here, because it will benefit your opponent as well and reduce your speed advantage. Not necessarily a bad choice though.

Thanks! All in all I actually ended up casting the cogs only once in all my 3 games, so I figure I won't be using them next time!

Finished the day with 3 wins 0 loss, and counting all the points from primary, secondary and tertiary objectives, ended up in 3rd place! I'm proud of myself for this one! List is good, but needs some refining. Would definitely add more bodies to it, prolly ungors or ungor raiders.

 

Games were against Legions of Nagash (with a freakin' Nagash), Wanderers and finally Stormcast. 

[BaronBanana]

Question for the BoC veterans out there - Are Thunderscorn/Dragon Ogres viable as a battleline army?  After reading that the FEC can take battleline dragons and geists and were somewhat viable, I started looking around for more low model count armies and remembered Thunderscorn got rolled back into BoC.  

[The_Yellow_Sign]

Just now, BaronBanana said:

Question for the BoC veterans out there - Are Thunderscorn/Dragon Ogres viable as a battleline army?  After reading that the FEC can take battleline dragons and geists and were somewhat viable, I started looking around for more low model count armies and remembered Thunderscorn got rolled back into BoC.  

I personally run 6 Dragon Ogres in my list to defend the territory around my Herdstone so that they get some much-needed rend/save debuffs from the Herdstone. They're fast and also pretty tough for a Beasts of Chaos unit, with a 4+ save, good wounds/model, points per wound, and two ways to be healed (tied roll-off or Shaggoth spell). They're decently killy as well if buffed by a Shaggoth, though less killy than Enlightened or a horde of Bestigors.

I don't think that an all-Dragon Ogre army would be competitive, but it would be fun to play and would work well in casual games. They're really cool models so it would look great on the table. Here are 6 of mine that I'm painting (just need to do the metal bits):

 

[BaronBanana]

Yea, I don't have much interest in playing competitively, though winning occasionally would be nice.  The paint job looks clean as hell though

[The_Yellow_Sign]

19 minutes ago, BaronBanana said:

Yea, I don't have much interest in playing competitively, though winning occasionally would be nice.  The paint job looks clean as hell though

Cheers! Yeah if you're not interested in playing competitively then should be fine.

 

For Dragon Ogre-heavy army I would personally suggest a Great Bray Shaman with either Tendrils of Atrophy (if  you plan to take  a Balewind Vortex) or Vicious Stranglethorns to sit around your Herdstone for sacrificing, and then fill out the rest of your army with Dragon Ogres and a couple Shaggoths: one with Sundering Blades, and the other with Hailstorm. I would use units of 6 Dragon Ogres as hammers, and units of 3 as screens.

[BaronBanana]

12 minutes ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Cheers! Yeah if you're not interested in playing competitively then should be fine.

 

For Dragon Ogre-heavy army I would personally suggest a Great Bray Shaman with either Tendrils of Atrophy (if  you plan to take  a Balewind Vortex) or Vicious Stranglethorns to sit around your Herdstone for sacrificing, and then fill out the rest of your army with Dragon Ogres and a couple Shaggoths: one with Sundering Blades, and the other with Hailstorm. I would use units of 6 Dragon Ogres as hammers, and units of 3 as screens.

Thanks for the suggestions!  If I do end up going with BoC, I'll definitely be doing this.  My only dislike is the lack of Shaggoth models, but that's not a big problem because Shaggoth models are still some of the coolest looking models in the game

[The_Yellow_Sign]

2 minutes ago, BaronBanana said:

Thanks for the suggestions!  If I do end up going with BoC, I'll definitely be doing this.  My only dislike is the lack of Shaggoth models, but that's not a big problem because Shaggoth models are still some of the coolest looking models in the game

I've actually heard from someone at Creature Caster that their next release (announced around the end of this month or early next month) will be Beasts of Chaos-related, and based on our conversation I got the impression that it might be a Shaggoth. So there could be a really awesome Shaggoth model coming very soon!

[BaronBanana]

21 minutes ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

I've actually heard from someone at Creature Caster that their next release (announced around the end of this month or early next month) will be Beasts of Chaos-related, and based on our conversation I got the impression that it might be a Shaggoth. So there could be a really awesome Shaggoth model coming very soon!

That sounds fantastic.  Maybe I'll somehow find someone with the artistic creativity to recreate Kholek

[Xasto]

So, it is no surprise that FEC Gristlegore lists are going to be strong contenders now, and the way I see it they will dominate against other melee armies. The fact that their general fights first in the combat phase and then gets to use command points to keep going means that for BoC, which are primarily melee focused also, will get wiped out before doing much. 

Would I be correct in thinking that the Wildfire Taurus, which makes a unit fight at the end of the combat phase, would counter the FEC command trait which lets the general fight at the begining of the combat phase?

[The_Yellow_Sign]

4 minutes ago, Xasto said:

So, it is no surprise that FEC Gristlegore lists are going to be strong contenders now, and the way I see it they will dominate against other melee armies. The fact that their general fights first in the combat phase and then gets to use command points to keep going means that for BoC, which are primarily melee focused also, will get wiped out before doing much. 

Would I be correct in thinking that the Wildfire Taurus, which makes a unit fight at the end of the combat phase, would counter the FEC command trait which lets the general fight at the begining of the combat phase?

Yes, Taurus would work, IIRC. I believe that they  ruled that it's about "layers of application" when it comes to abilities that cause you to fight first/last in the combat phase.

[Xasto]

 

1 minute ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Yes, Taurus would work, IIRC. I believe that they  ruled that it's about "layers of application" when it comes to abilities that cause you to fight first/last in the combat phase.

Meaning that applying the "fight last layer" covers completely the "fight first layer" ?

[The_Yellow_Sign]

2 minutes ago, Xasto said:

 

Meaning that applying the "fight last layer" covers completely the "fight first layer" ?

Yep, that's right.

 

Edited February 25, 2019 by The_Yellow_Sign

[Xasto]

6 minutes ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Yep, that's right.

 

Thanks! Means the Taurus probably is worth more now! Haha