AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Poryague]

Looking at slaanesh bestigor. 

Take a mortal wizard cast Dark Delusions target enemy. Roll higher then enmy bravery get +1 to hit that unit. Get reroll 1 to hit. Bestigors now hit that unit on 2  and reroll 1 to hit assuming more then 10 models in it.

For bullgors it get them hiting on 3 rerolling 1 to hit. The hardest part will be getting that +1 to go off.

In the event you are targeting something with an artifact. You are +1 to hit because of that spell rerolling everything.

[Slo]

 

On 6/23/2018 at 8:06 AM, Blightlord said:

Realized after looking over my list I don't think it would be legal with a Warherd Allegiance. Below is the new list with Grand Alliance Chaos as the allegiance. I lowered the Bestigors to 10, and split the Gors into 3 groups of 10 for battle line purposes.  With the new points this should get me to 1900, which would allow me to get up to 50 points worth of Endless Spells, and 1 Command Point at the start of the game.?

Allegiance: Chaos

Doombull (120)

- General

- Axe & Shield

Great Bray Shaman (90)

Great Bray Shaman (90)

Doombull (120)

- Great Axe

10 x Gors (80)

- Gor-Blades & Beastshields

10 x Gors (80)

- Gor-Blades & Beastshields

10 x Gors (80)

- Gor-Blades & Beastshields

6 x Bullgors (360)

- Great Axes

3 x Bullgors (180)

- Great Axes

10 x Bestigors (140)

Cygor (200)

Ghorgon (200)

Jabberslythe (120)

Jabberslythe (120)

Total: 1980 / 2000 (1900 w/ new points)

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 150

If you have Doombull as general, bullgors count as battleline. Personally i think that minimum size units of gors are rather useless.

Also, why chaos as allegiance?

Two jabberslythes sounds fun though! I havent tried them myself, but would like to fit one into my gavespawn list.

[SugarMaple82]

Anyone else looking at converting a Ghorgon into the new Keeper of Secrets? As someone with a lot of bestigors I was looking at making the switch to Slaanesh with something like:

2x KoS (Maybe Shalaxi if the normal KoS bits make the Ghorgon look 

infernal enrapturess

Slaanesh hero battalion (960)

Great-Bray shaman

3x10 ungors

2x30 bestigors

depraved drone (1030)

Basically my current beasts list with some added monster mash - I'm hoping the keepers survive slightly better than the gavespawn beastlord 

[peasant]

Centigors are awesome! Bueno i dont like The oficial miniatures, so I started converting. What do you think?

[cbob]

I feel exactly the same about centigors, and have been thinking about doing something similar. What's the back half you've used there, looks like Fenris Wolves? I was thinking about using Gryph-hounds, but I'm not sure what the various scales of the pieces are.

[Magnus The Blue]

I used marauder horsemen horse with Tzaangor torsos for my Phantasmagora of Tzeentch. But I think others have just used the marauders for torsos, relatively cheap and easy.

[Sauriv]

My version of centigors, body is glade riders. I'm painting the shield arm separately so thats why its missing ☺️

[jkav86]

Really cool Sauriv . If you don't mind me asking, what are all the bits you used? I'm mostly wondering about the spears

[Sauriv]

9 hours ago, jkav86 said:

Really cool Sauriv . If you don't mind me asking, what are all the bits you used? I'm mostly wondering about the spears

Thank you😊 the spears are banner bearer arms from the gor and bestigor kits. I then pinned and glued on the spearhead, which are all comming from ungor spears (I choose the "bigger" ones) . To cover up and to make the spears more natural i used a thread and glued on top of. 

The spearhead for the leader is one of the wolverine claw things for a ghorgon. 

The banner comes from the gor box, I carved away the middle part and attached it from the side instead. 

Also posts a picture before I primed them. One of the arms is a rescued arm from a old model. 

[Maddpainting]

If i didnt already have 15 of the old metal ones, i would do that conversion, looks good.

[peasant]

Any luck playing an ungor horde? I have now 60 ungors and 40 ungor raiders and start feeling perhaps It was better yo get bestigors instead 😮

[peasant]

On 5/3/2019 at 10:28 AM, cbob said:

I feel exactly the same about centigors, and have been thinking about doing something similar. What's the back half you've used there, looks like Fenris Wolves? I was thinking about using Gryph-hounds, but I'm not sure what the various scales of the pieces are.

Yeah fenrissian wolves!

[Drib]

Is there a secret to building Bestigors? I can't get the arms to fit as they should.

[Killacat]

My friend is starting age of sigmar with beastmen and I was wondering if anyone could help me make a 1000 point Brayherd list for him. So far he has the start collecting box, unit of centigors, unit of bullgors, and an extra Bray-Shaman. Thanks so much for the help! Any tips and build advice is appreciated 

: )

[Satyrical Sophist]

22 hours ago, Drib said:

Is there a secret to building Bestigors? I can't get the arms to fit as they should.

They are a pain in the ass. The method I got to work was glueing the arms together at the hand/wrist joint, letting it almost dry, then pushing the arms onto the body. There should still be some flex, then you can glue the arms to the body. 

 

19 hours ago, Killacat said:

My friend is starting age of sigmar with beastmen and I was wondering if anyone could help me make a 1000 point Brayherd list for him. So far he has the start collecting box, unit of centigors, unit of bullgors, and an extra Bray-Shaman. Thanks so much for the help! Any tips and build advice is appreciated 

: )

Well, what you have there comes to 800/820 points depending on what you build stuff as.

You have 66 wounds in those 820 points, but only 31 bodies which is pretty light. It honestly depends a bit on what you/your buddy feels like playing with.

Bray Shaman

Bray Shaman

Bestigor (Battle Line with Bray Shaman General)

Ungor (Have to run these as non-raiders to make battle line)

Centigor.

Bullgor

Ghorgon/Cygor.

 

The Bray Shamans are really good. I tend to only run one but mainly because I haven't painted another up. One works really well baby sitting a herdstone (which I recommend picking up), along with some ungor for sacrificing to generate summoning points. The second is a cheap hero who makes a big chunk of your army faster, and has some powerful spells.

Bestigor are just plain very good. 

Ungor are a really nice fast chaff unit. As I said the first unit tends to stay with the herd stone (I usually go with a herdstone near an objective if I can), but late on the survivors can go very fast (Up to 16 on max/cp run) to screen or steal an objective.

Centigor I love. They are absurdly fast and reasonably tough. 

Bullgor can definitely do work. They are very very inconsistent though. I've had them just tear through units, or whiff completely. They benefit a great deal from anything that boosts attack numbers, or increases accuracy. I think they also play well in some of the god armies, like Slaanesh or Khorne. Equipment wise I went with great axes. There are arguments for other weapon load outs though. The shield and single axe boosts the save in combat and is more reliable (3 attacks at two damage) with less rend. I'd be slightly leery about going for double axes though, since the Khorne battalion (which is very good for these guys and if you are running them in khorne you need to get) gives an easy way to get reroll 1s to hit, and if you are running them in Slaanesh there are a lot of ways to get reroll 1s as well. I'm interested in the generals handbook for these guys, because I feel they could probably use a small point drop. 

I've not played with a Cygor, but I've seen them do well. The Ghorgon is basically like the Bullgor's bigger weirder brother. The last game I played with him he killed Mannfred, Mortarch of Night  almost in one combat phase (finishing him off immediately afterwards), then failed to put a dent in zombies until they dragged him down. The game before that he stabbed a Bastilladon to death in one turn and held an objective for the rest of the game. The game before that he failed to hurt a unit of dryads. He is a monster and a cool unit.

 

As for what to do next? You have a load of choices. It also depends a bit on what you/your buddy wants to branch into. Remember that you'll be spending a long time painting stuff, and if you don't like the models, I'd advise going for something else.

The Tzaangor are an option.  Tzaangor on foot are a tough unit compared to a lot of BoC stuff, and start out pretty punchy. 

Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs are an absolutely brutal unit right now. They are very likely to get a price increase in the next General's handbook (Or the Tzeentch Battle Tome if that is first), but thats pretty deserved. Honestly they should be at least 160, maybe even 200. They are very good though, and can tear through anything, while also being stupidly fast (16 inch base upto 19 with bray shaman) and flying.

The Tzaangor shaman is quite pricy. He boosts the other Tzaangor, but the foot Tzaangor need it more than the discs. If you are running endless spells (Like the big bull) he also gets to cast one super powered spell a game, which is really good for forcing it through.

Skyfires I haven't played much with, though they represent some of the armies only shooting. They are apparently deceptively good in close combat, and some people have been getting good results with them. They may also be getting a points adjustment in the generals handbook.

If you want to stay pure beasts of chaos, or branch into Tzeentch then Tzaangor are a good choice.  

If you want to potentially try playing a god army with BoC base then you want to avoid Tzaangor (Unless that god is Tzeentch).

In that case you still have a lot of choices.

One of the easier options would be another SC box. That'd get you another 10 ungor and Bestigor, plus another big monster. The Ungor and Bestigor would take your points up to around 1000 and add more bodies. The monster could be assembled as the other monster option, so you'd have a ghorgon and a cygor for example. You would end up with 3 bray shamans total, which might be too much, but possibly not. He is a flexible option. 

There are a lot of choices in this army, and its pretty well internally balanced. If you like the model for something, you should get a use out of it.

There are only a few things to warn about. 

Warhounds are a bit disappointing rules wise, and people have mixed feelings on the models. I love them and have some painted, but it wouldn't surprise me if they got a rework at some point, potentially with the new Dark oath release.

Be careful going too monster heavy. They can be very powerful, but tend to be more fragile than the same points worth of units. They also struggle to hold objectives.  

 

[Myrdin]

Honestly the BoC book offers a lot of interesting options. 

If you are a starting player, dont worry about looks and proxy stuff with empty bases, if your opponent is OK with it, to try anything and everything the book has to offer. Most of the times, the core part of your every list will look the same (some ungors, one or two shamans, and some MSU Bestigors), and the rest will be changing as you go playtesting different styles and units.

You can go Dragon Ogre heavy, or you can ignore them. You can run bunch of monsters, or none at all. You can go full horde mode with tons of bestigors, ungors, centigors or you might wanna go a small model count high impact army like Tzaangors or Bullgors.

Honestly the book gives you many option how to play it, and if you like the models, then there is no "absolutely wrong option" (well...even hounds can be used for screening, though Centigors are still supreme. Only actual let down in the book are the Gors so I`d stear clear off those until they get some love.) though there are some worse and some better ones for sure.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Myrdin

[Sovereign]

Does anyone play a more elite BoC army? Piles of Bullgors, some Dragon Ogors, maybe a Ghorgon or two, plus some ungors or gors to stand on objectives?

I currently play Skaven and am interested in potentially starting a more 'elite' army so I don't have to shove a million rats around the battlefield all the time.

[Magnus The Blue]

9 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

Does anyone play a more elite BoC army? Piles of Bullgors, some Dragon Ogors, maybe a Ghorgon or two, plus some ungors or gors to stand on objectives?

I currently play Skaven and am interested in potentially starting a more 'elite' army so I don't have to shove a million rats around the battlefield all the time.

Yup, my main list is mostly centigors, dragon ogors and enlightened on disks.  All great units.

[decker_cky]

I'm really hoping Bullgors get a hefty discount in the new GHB. 120 pts plus a horde discount (12 for 400) would make them a fun, interesting unit that could be relied on as the base of your army.

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by decker_cky

[kenshin620]

1 hour ago, decker_cky said:

I'm really hoping Bullgors get a hefty discount in the new GHB. 120 pts plus a horde discount (12 for 400) would make them a fun, interesting unit that could be relied on as the base of your army.

 

120pts may be too low, 140-150 seems more realistic

Not really sure if horde discounts matter either, running 12 seems very unwieldy. That's just asking to get debuffed to hell (especially with a bravery bomb)

 

[decker_cky]

Ignoring points, 3 Bullgors are comparable offensively (not going to run the numbers, but from previously doing it they're comparable) and defensively (10 4+ save wounds vs. 12 5+ save wounds) to bestigors, but are slower (1" more movement, but no run and charge) and have far fewer available buffs (notably, they do not benefit from the shaman speed buff). 

edit: One more thing - an argument in favour of hordes - a horde of bullgors, if decently affordable, would make much better use of the doombull command ability. 

Edited May 14, 2019 by decker_cky

[Sauriv]

I would like bullgors to keep their points but instead get a warscroll update to hit/wound on 3+/3+, making them more of a elite unit. Just making them a little more reliable and not pathetically useless if debuffed with - 1 to hit. 

So many times my bullgors has failed all attacks.

"how many attacks should I save?" 

"None, they did nothing" 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

1 minute ago, Sauriv said:

I would like bullgors to keep their points but instead get a warscroll update to hit/wound on 3+/3+, making them more of a elite unit. Just making them a little more reliable and not pathetically useless if debuffed with - 1 to hit. 

So many times my bullgors has failed all attacks.

"how many attacks should I save?" 

"None, they did nothing" 

Yeah the 4+/3+ profile is pretty painful with all the -1 hit in the meta.

[Magnus The Blue]

1 hour ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Yeah the 4+/3+ profile is pretty painful with all the -1 hit in the meta.

True, as it is a deprived drove in Hedonites army is the only place I can see taking them, exploding 6s make the Great Axes terrifying especially against heros with artifacts (re-roll to hit). Also Doom Bulls work great in Hedonites since they give you lots of wounds for a low cost (ideal for Depravity).

I think if they go to 140 and assuming Enlightened on disks go up to 160+ they will see much more play. The problem at the moment is they are a comparable option to Dragon Ogors and Enlightened, but more expensive and slower than either. If you want hard hitting eites, take Enlightened on Disks. If you want a more tanky unit with decent damage output, take Dragon Ogors.

[Myrdin]

I would like to see:

Drop 20 pts,  their attack range with the great weapons changed from 1" to 2" instead so screening becomes viable and pilling up more effective, and the paired weapon option reworked to +1 to hit like Tzaangors have (this should be an global thing for Beastmen, rerolling 1 for paired weapons is a joke, and we all know Gors could really use this as well), making it an actually good choice rather then an absolute meh. This is the most basic of changes.

Alternative version:

Add +1 A to all weapon profiles (horns excluded). Keep the 4+ to hit, instead give them more attacks. I`d be mighty fine with that. (Though I still agree about increasing the range for the great weapon. A bloody SCE  two hander dude who is half the size of a Minotaur gets 2" with the weapon they have.... how does that make sense, when the minotaurs arms length is twice of his... yeah)

S+S = 4A 4+/3+ - 1 D2; 4+Save 

Paired = 4A 4+/3+ -1 D2; 5+Save 

Great w. = 3A 4+/3+ -2 D3, 5+Save 2" range 

Alternative of an Alternative*

And if they really wanna go ham,, I`d be fine with a 3rd option where they get an extra attack, while also implementing the +1 to Hit for the Paired weapons and 2" range for the Great weapons. Keeping the current price, which is the highest among the 3 man sized monster inf units (Enlightened, Dragon Ogors, Bullgors). That would make them an actual elite unit choice comparable to actual elite units of other armies, as it would also give Bloodgreed more chances to proc the MV, without making the other two obsolete (DA still more tanky, Shaggy gives them nice buffs, plus they are 20pts less. Enlightened can ambush and synergies well with the benefit from Bray and Tzaan shammy to insane degree, also cheaper, but more squish if not on discs).

This way we would have 3 different monster infantry sized units, each excelling at a certain thing, while neither would be made useless by the other two.

Well lets see how things pan out in the end. The GHB doesnt change warscrolls only prices yes ? Lets see what happens (warhounds 60 pts pretty pleeeease).

Do we have any estimated date when the GHB update is gonna be out ?

Edited May 14, 2019 by Myrdin