AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Satyrical Sophist]

Got a fair bit more to add, but I'm pretty sure raider arrows can work with blades of p. If you have a full unit they end up getting 2/9 of their hits as bonus mortals (22%) as opposed to 17%. A unit of 40 will put out 9 mortals at range and in melee as well.

 

Edit. Bestigor also benefit Vs big units.

Edited March 9, 2019 by Satyrical Sophist

[zamerion]

On 3/9/2019 at 7:31 PM, Satyrical Sophist said:

Got a fair bit more to add, but I'm pretty sure raider arrows can work with blades of p. If you have a full unit they end up getting 2/9 of their hits as bonus mortals (22%) as opposed to 17%. A unit of 40 will put out 9 mortals at range and in melee as well.

 

Edit. Bestigor also benefit Vs big units.

It's a very good idea too!!

the only thing that is wasted a little the rule of the formation to cause mortals when die, and i hope to use the blades on centigors the first and maybe the second turn, and next turns are for bulls. So I do not know when I could use it in the ungors

[redbirdhouse]

So tell me, what's the consensus on standard Gors vs Ungors for chaff/battleline?

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, redbirdhouse said:

So tell me, what's the consensus on standard Gors vs Ungors for chaff/battleline?

Ungors are rulewise and gameplay wise better then Gors but Gors just look much much better

[Kasper]

Hey all. I realize Tzaangors are not everyones favourite unit in the Beasts of Chaos army, but I've started feeling a lack of oompf in my army, especially when other people bring kinda cheesy setups to the table. Because of this I have purchased some birdieboys, but I'm really confused about how to equip them. I'm used to entire units either having X or Y weapon type, not this pick and choose for models, that you are able to do with standard Tzaangors.

 

I have been searching this forum but also googling etc, but can't seem to really find an answer to the first question.

 

1. Can you equip the banner and horn dudes with anything additional, or are they just standard attack profile of 1 savage blade + vicious beak.
2. What is the most optimal lineup of equipment on the dudes?
3. How do you feel about the rule of 1 guy with a shield "protecting" the entire unit until that specific model dies?

Edited March 12, 2019 by Kasper

[SwampHeart]

10 hours ago, redbirdhouse said:

So tell me, what's the consensus on standard Gors vs Ungors for chaff/battleline?

Ungors are (unfortunately) better in almost every conceivable scenario. You get 10 more bodies for 10 less points at max size - so if you want a large screen they're most cost efficient. If you want to cheaply fill battle line or have a cheap summoning battery then Ungors get you the same body count for 20 less points. Gors are fantastic models but are largely there to fill a battalion tax. 
 

3 hours ago, Kasper said:

Can you equip the banner and horn dudes with anything additional, or are they just standard attack profile of 1 savage blade + vicious beak.

You can equip the banner and musician with any equipment options. This means they're usually equipped with a Savage Great Blade since you're going to want to remove them last.

3 hours ago, Kasper said:

What is the most optimal lineup of equipment on the dudes?

Maximum Savage Great Blades (make sure to equip your champion, banner and musician with these so as to make casualty removal easier), maximum mutants, 1-2 shields, rest with paired savage blades.

3 hours ago, Kasper said:

How do you feel about the rule of 1 guy with a shield "protecting" the entire unit until that specific model dies?

Its what the rules say and its how I play it. Is it a benefit? Absolutely. Do I feel bad about it? Not at all - a maximum sized Tzaangor unit is a quarter of a 2k list, you're paying for the benefit. 

As to Tzaangors as a whole - some people may give you slack about their use but they're an awesome unit with great models (IMO) that are fully a part of our army now. They fill several roles effectively for us and I think they're 100% worth playing with to figure out if they fit your style. 

[Kasper]

3 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

<Snip>

Thanks man! I don't know why, but the warscroll wasn't very clear to me.

Just to make sure, does this mean that a unit of 30 Tzaangors can have as follows:

• 6 mutants, all with 4 attacks of Savage Blade (2 base +1 mutant +1 for more than 9 models), gettng +1 to hit due to paired blades.
• 12 with Savage Greatblades, 2 attacks each with Savage Greatblade (1 base +1 for more than 9 models), no extra +hit
• 1 with shield, 3 attacks of Savage Blade (2 base +1 for more than 9 models), no extra +hit
• The remaining 11 will have dual blades, giving them 3 attacks of Savage Blade (2 base +1 for more than 9 models), getting +1 hit due to paired blades

 

 

[SwampHeart]

1 hour ago, Kasper said:

Just to make sure, does this mean that a unit of 30 Tzaangors can have as follows:

You've got it - make sure to add 1 additional attack to your greatblades for your champion (who should definitely have one). As a general rule your casualty removal order is Dual Blades > Mutants > Shield > Greatblades as the Greatblades do the lion's share of the damage in the unit. 

[Kasper]

25 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

You've got it - make sure to add 1 additional attack to your greatblades for your champion (who should definitely have one). As a general rule your casualty removal order is Dual Blades > Mutants > Shield > Greatblades as the Greatblades do the lion's share of the damage in the unit. 

According to my BoC tome it's +1 to hit roll and not +1 attack characteristic for the champion?

But thanks a lot for the info!

[SwampHeart]

7 minutes ago, Kasper said:

According to my BoC tome it's +1 to hit roll and not +1 attack characteristic for the champion?

But thanks a lot for the info!

You are correct - was mixing him up with a Bestigor champ.

[Myrdin]

I might be missing something, but for the Nurgle theme battalion army.... you are not getting any of the Nurgle buffs.

You cant ally Nurgle into BoC, you can only ally Nurgle marked (battalion) BoC into Nurgle,.... just like with every other Chaos God (and the thing I was so angry about when it comes to consistency).

So yeah while you get Nurgle keyword you are not getting any of the benefits.

That is, if we are talking about a 2K list, because you can only bring so many BoC as allies into another army. So no +2 for nurgle, no blades of Purification, no nothing. Unless the main army is Nurgle and BoC are only allied into it. At least thats how the things have been interpreted up to this point rule wise as far as I understand it.

I would love to be proven wrong though.... Malal knows that it would open so many new ways to play this army if we could ally in Chaos Gods stuff with all their buffs targeting their chosen gods keyword (thus our Battalion marked BoC)

Edited March 13, 2019 by Myrdin

[SwampHeart]

2 hours ago, Myrdin said:

you can only ally Nurgle marked (battalion) BoC into Nurgle

No - if you take the BoC Nurgle Battalion it isn't an 'ally' for a Nurgle army - its just a regular part of their army. Subject to all benefits, restrictions etc. Basically you trade primal call, the herdstone, great frays, and BoC traits/relics/spells for Nurgle's wheel, summoning, and traits/relics/spells. 

The god aligned BoC battalions can be included in their respective god aligned armies as a natural part of that army, not as an ally. When you take a god aligned battalion you are basically given the option to choose between BoC allegiance traits or god specific allegiance traits. 

You still cannot ally in god specific units with BoC (correctly I might add, this is intentional and should work this way) - you can only ally in BoC units with god specific armies. However any unit you take in a god specific battalion can be a regular (i.e. not an ally selection) part of that god specific army. 

[Satyrical Sophist]

Yup. I actually quite like the way it works, though I wish BoC units gained access to traits and a spell lore if you did it. (Slaanesh still allows traits because it's not got a battle tome. You can make a frankly brutal doombull or shaggoth leader).

So if you want a blood stoker, you are running a Khorne army, it might contain almost entirely BoC units, but it's a Khorne army and everything has the mark of Khorne. They clarified that the BoC units are not counted as allies, theoretically you could run a Khorne army that contains only BoC units.

[SwampHeart]

14 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

Yup. I actually quite like the way it works, though I wish BoC units gained access to traits and a spell lore if you did it.

I think the key to using BoC units successfully in god aligned armies is taking units that fill usually unavailable gaps in a given army. Ungors work well for example in Tzeentch because its a cheap screen/battle line selection. Centigors work well in Nurgle because they can become ludicrously fast and punchy with blades. From a game play point of view you have to have a very specific vision in mind if you want to really leverage BoC units in non BoC armies but there are some interesting builds available. 

[Satyrical Sophist]

21 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

I think the key to using BoC units successfully in god aligned armies is taking units that fill usually unavailable gaps in a given army. Ungors work well for example in Tzeentch because its a cheap screen/battle line selection. Centigors work well in Nurgle because they can become ludicrously fast and punchy with blades. From a game play point of view you have to have a very specific vision in mind if you want to really leverage BoC units in non BoC armies but there are some interesting builds available. 

There are some other cool interactions that I want to try.

Cygors give Tzeentch a good use for 4s and 3s, also Dragon Ogors are pretty tough.

Nurgle gets centigors for blades shenanigans (Bestigor and Ungor raiders work well with them as well), and just fast units in general. I also like the mortal wound chariots. They don't benefit from some nurgle synergies though, since a fair few things call for Mortal or Daemon or Rotbringer.

Khorne has some of the same problems, though not too bad. While everything benefits from extra attacks, Bullgors and Ghorgons get the biggest benefit. Plus chariots are one of the cheapest ways to get bloodtithe points in the game (spawn are cheaper, but damn are they unreliable and not very tough) and Centigors are also a pretty good source.

Slaanesh has less synergies in general, being more limited  overall, but I do want to try the pretender shaggoth. I think you could get a depravity generating monster with him. 

 

The other thing to note about them is that they are very flexible battalions. I love taking cheap throw away units, and the god battalions are a great way to do that without having a million drops.

[Myrdin]

I see ! Thanks a lot both of you. 
I was still confused on this part but now it been finally cleared for me.

That makes the Battalions much more attractive for the God armies (though it doesnt offer BoC much really). I can certainly see the appeal of some of our units in a setting where they can benefit from "this or that" that the God army has to offer. Centigors seem to be a great addition for both Khorne and Nurgle due to their speed (tough admittedly not sure how much do the Fleshounds outperform them if at all).

Just to bad we cant get our hands on some of their stuff, but at least you can technically go Fully BoC under a designated God so at least thats something (unlike the ally limit I was thinking off).

[Danger Wizard 5000]

Has anyone found certain allied models or units that work well with BoC? I've had success with a Chaos Sorcerer Lord before. Their spell, Demonic Power, let's you reroll 1's for hits, wounds and saves. They can also just give out guaranteed reroll 1's for saves with Oracular Vision. I'm planning on bringing one with a Gavespawn army to make Besitigors pumped up with the Chaos Spawn ability hit even harder, or to let my Doombull with the Mutated Axe reroll those pesky 1's so it can deal it's potential 15 damage more easily. 

Are there more models from the pantheon of Chaos that are worth checking out? I've seen the Khorne Bloodbound lists with tons of Bestigors all benefiting from the Khorne hero's abilities and it was brutal to be on the reciveing end of, even if it wasn't an actual Beasts army. 

[Satyrical Sophist]

Need to take some better photos, but here are some of my centigors, along with some of my other BoC, including Elkhead Mooselord, my beast lord. 

 

[kenshin620]

With Warcry, it seems harpies and some sort of winged chaos beast are being made. Curious if they'll be usable for Beasts of Chaos.

[Myrdin]

7 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

With Warcry, it seems harpies and some sort of winged chaos beast are being made. Curious if they'll be usable for Beasts of Chaos.

Well its not like we have a unit entry for such a unit. Plus the keyword thing.

Unless they would be part of SoD.... or we get to see some new BoC releases after the Battletome, as we`ve seen with some of the other armies.

 

Nice Centigors btw. though they seem to have same issue as the first one I made > It looks like you`ve cut out to much and the Gor torso seems a bit too deep set into the bottom body.  As a buddy of mine commented on the first Centigor I made "it looks like it got hit by a sledgehammer and upper torso got pushed into the bottom one."

The Bestigor doesnt seem to have this issue though so that might be just an issue with the picture taken..

That Elk headed beastman coversion is a pretty great idea for the left over heads !  I realy dig it ! 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Myrdin

[kenshin620]

4 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Well its not like we have a unit entry for such a unit. Plus the keyword thing.

I'm sure they would make either website docs or include booklets with the releases assuming warcry stuff will be aos compatible.

Now whether they're actually worth using or not is another story. A decent chunk of the time these specialist games into main game rules have been for more fluff rather than actual practicality.

[Myrdin]

2 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

I'm sure they would make either website docs or include booklets with the releases assuming warcry stuff will be aos compatible.

Now whether they're actually worth using or not is another story. A decent chunk of the time these specialist games into main game rules have been for more fluff rather than actual practicality.

Yeah thats true.

I mean we can always hope (I keep my hooves up for new, amazing looking Khorn/Pesti and Slaangors that can both be added to their own God armies, as well as to us. Would be amazing to have all of these back. 

*I already dreamt up how they could be setup model count/stat and rule wise for each of them to be unique in their own right and yet not make our other choices obsolete.

Both Pestigors and Slaangors would be easy to do. I drafter several variants of these units, always filling a certain role and never have pushed out our other choices into obsolesce  but no matter how I tried to spin it, the Khorngors always came to a point where they made Bullgors into overpriced beefstakes  (which they are honestly. Bullgors are pretty lackluster when compared to our other choices like Bestigors, Dragon Ogors and Enlightened).

I can post the profiles pages I made for them just for the lolz...but I digress

It would be cool to get harpies back. Damn I have like 40 of them from the old days of Warhammer Fantasy, now they just collect dust.

I can see them having a proper Deep strike ability like other units of this type and the adequate profile for a cheap, swift harassment unit  with one or two unique abilities of their own. Its not that we lack any mobile units, but having more choices would be nice. Plus we have no actual Deep Strike (I wish the FW Chaos Monsters had BoC keyword... ahh Preyton :3 ) so one unit of this type wouldn't be a horrible thing.

[Lord Krungharr]

I'm still thinking about making a small 1K army of BoC for the Vanguard at Adepticon.  It'll be on 4x4 tables too, which I think does favor the Beasts so they can be closer to the Herdstone in general, no?

To work with, I have 3 units of 3 greataxe Bullgors and a Doombull, a Shaggoth and 3 twin weapon Dragon Ogors, a Bray Shaman and Beastlord, the Endless Spells, and a Tzaangor Shaman on disc (need to build and paint him), 1 Razorgor, and 30 Gor heads which will be going onto my Marauders, as I am not into mortals or humans too much for AoS.  I can also slap together a Jabberslythe (been meaning to do it for a long time since before the tome).

The Brass Despoilers seems expensive for 1K, but I could fit all the Bullgors and Gors or Dragon Ogors in there).  What would you more experienced BoC players make out of that for a Vanguard?

[Pandamina]

19 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I'm still thinking about making a small 1K army of BoC for the Vanguard at Adepticon.  It'll be on 4x4 tables too, which I think does favor the Beasts so they can be closer to the Herdstone in general, no?

To work with, I have 3 units of 3 greataxe Bullgors and a Doombull, a Shaggoth and 3 twin weapon Dragon Ogors, a Bray Shaman and Beastlord, the Endless Spells, and a Tzaangor Shaman on disc (need to build and paint him), 1 Razorgor, and 30 Gor heads which will be going onto my Marauders, as I am not into mortals or humans too much for AoS.  I can also slap together a Jabberslythe (been meaning to do it for a long time since before the tome).

The Brass Despoilers seems expensive for 1K, but I could fit all the Bullgors and Gors or Dragon Ogors in there).  What would you more experienced BoC players make out of that for a Vanguard?

Spoiler

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
- General
- Trait: Shadowpelt 
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales 
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Viletide
Great Bray Shaman (100)
- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of Atrophy

Battleline
20 x Tzaangors of Beasts of Chaos (360)
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields

Units
6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)

Total: 980 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 85
 

For my 1000 pts games i use this list. I guess it's somewhat tournament viable. Low drops is key here, i often get to choose who goes first. 

[Kasper]

A lone Tzaangor Shaman seems kinda odd to mix in without any Tzaangor/Enlightened/Skyfire. The boon wont be as useful and all the bonuses the shaman bring will be useless.