Gwendar Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 7 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said: If you do the maths on 3 Bullgors, they aren't reliable enough to kill stuff. I would argue that they should almost always be used in units of 6. Yeah, the more I thought about it the less I saw it as an issue. I think that's just some leftover thought-process from never putting Stormfiends in units of 6. How about the rest of the list? Any recommendations on changes or would you say it's solid for comp play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Alpaca Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Sorry if this has been discussed before, I’m sure it has, but how competitive can Gavespawn and the Pestilential Throng be? If I’m reading it correctly it looks like I can take a bunch of beastlords and really do some good damage by just throwing them at the enemy, then they die and turn into spawn, further tarpitting the enemy while my force gets into combat. Is this a good idea? Any specific things I can do to make it more competitive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Yellow_Sign Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Gwendar said: Yeah, the more I thought about it the less I saw it as an issue. I think that's just some leftover thought-process from never putting Stormfiends in units of 6. How about the rest of the list? Any recommendations on changes or would you say it's solid for comp play? I don't think Warherd are at all competitive if you run them in Beasts of Chaos, personally. They're too expensive for what they do, and are completely outclassed by the cheaper Enlightened in every way. If you want to be competitive with warherd, I think running them in Khorne with Brass Despoilers and Gore Pilgrims in the best choice at the moment. Edited January 13, 2019 by The_Yellow_Sign 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwendar Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said: I don't think Warherd are at all competitive if you run them in Beasts of Chaos, personally. They're too expensive for what they do, and are completely outclassed by the cheaper Enlightened in every way. If you want to be competitive with warherd, I think running them in Khorne with Brass Despoilers and Gore Pilgrims in the best choice at the moment. Makes sense. In their place, how about another 10 Bestigors and 3 Skyfires? Personally I'm not too sure of their worth unless in a unit of 6, but I can't really make them fit without dropping the Raiders down to 10 which seems to defeat the purpose of them deepstriking to shoot out exploding hits on key targets. I imagine the best thing is take another Bray-shaman along with the Horn\Chaos Spawn or more screening Ungors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trav Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Hey, been eying off adding 30 ungor raiders to my slaves to darkness/slaanesh list. They look like fun and the shooting would add something different. How have you found them and do you think they would be a handy addition to back up my knights, warriors, daemonettes and characters? thanks for your help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrdin Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Trav said: Hey, been eying off adding 30 ungor raiders to my slaves to darkness/slaanesh list. They look like fun and the shooting would add something different. How have you found them and do you think they would be a handy addition to back up my knights, warriors, daemonettes and characters? thanks for your help! If you want them for that reason, then you want to go with 40. Simply due to the fact that you need some ablative sponge Wounds to keep them from loosing 1 model and immediately loosing the Rerolls of 1-2s. Plus those 40, while short in range, can dish out surprising amount of dakka if left unchecked Keep them alive and those re-rolls will do a lot. (Granted anything with 4+ save is gonna ignore them, but 5+ save 1W models ? Oh yessssh) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trav Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Myrdin said: If you want them for that reason, then you want to go with 40. Simply due to the fact that you need some ablative sponge Wounds to keep them from loosing 1 model and immediately loosing the Rerolls of 1-2s. Plus those 40, while short in range, can dish out surprising amount of dakka if left unchecked Keep them alive and those re-rolls will do a lot. (Granted anything with 4+ save is gonna ignore them, but 5+ save 1W models ? Oh yessssh) I was originally going to only use 20 but thought 30 would give a little buffer. Hadnt thought of 40 it seems like a lot of points. But if they are screened by warriors etc they should last a while as there will be knights and daemonettes, daemon princes and keeper of secrets in their face. 40 would definitely make them more dangerous for longer, thanks for the input will see what i can work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampHeart Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 On 1/13/2019 at 2:55 AM, Magnus The Blue said: Anyone tried a Chimera in a Dark walkers force? I am thinking Savage encirclement turn one for a turn two charge almost anywhere with the beasty? Unfortunately it doesn't work. Darkwalkers gives Warherd and Thunderscorn the ability to ambush as if they were Brayherd. The chimera doesn't have any of the relative keywords to be able to take advantage of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 1 minute ago, SwampHeart said: Unfortunately it doesn't work. Darkwalkers gives Warherd and Thunderscorn the ability to ambush as if they were Brayherd. The chimera doesn't have any of the relative keywords to be able to take advantage of this. The command ability however (savage encirclement) has no such restriction, annoying that it costs a command point but the amount of havoc I could cause I'm the back lines could be worth it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampHeart Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 33 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said: The command ability however (savage encirclement) has no such restriction, annoying that it costs a command point but the amount of havoc I could cause I'm the back lines could be worth it. You're correct - I misread your original post and thought you were referring to Shadowbeasts. The Command Ability would work but why bother - on turn 2 with a chimera you should have the ability to charge anything you like regardless right? Why spend a command point to do what it can already do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, SwampHeart said: You're correct - I misread your original post and thought you were referring to Shadowbeasts. The Command Ability would work but why bother - on turn 2 with a chimera you should have the ability to charge anything you like regardless right? Why spend a command point to do what it can already do? Means it can hide in your back lines and not get murdered before it gets a charge in. Also means your opponent doesn't know which way it's coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampHeart Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Just now, Magnus The Blue said: Means it can hide in your back lines and not get murdered before it gets a charge in. Also means your opponent doesn't know which way it's coming from. Yeah but it also means you're counting on a 7 for the charge (which is the average but still not something I'm fond of counting on). It also means you're spending a CP and telegraphing your plan to your opponent. I feel like if I played against it I'd just screen my vulnerable edges during my movement phase and block your available avenues. It could though be really effective during on the double turn, but then again so is just moving and charging the Chimera. I'm not saying its an entirely bad idea I just don't see it as being a consistently effective tactic. Feels more like a trick that'll work against a person once and then they'll know the read. On top of all that you have to take the really subpar Darkwalkers Gavespawn to make it work and spend a CP. Just doesn't seem like a good overall investment in cost/opportunity cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SugarMaple82 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Hi all, I'm a long time Tzeentch player looking for a change up and noticed that there's plenty of crossover with Beasts of Chaos (and also I can finally run my 8th WFB edition double chimera and still have an allegiance bonus!). So far I've got plenty of skyfires, 2 chimeras, a 10 man tzaangor and a start collecting and was unsure where to take it next. I've got a list idea, but I'm worried about model count/effectiveness of units like ungors besides for summoning Spawns. I imagine a first turn where I ambush the tzaangors and bestigors, summon a spawn and spend the command point for both of them to get an extra attack and charge then snipe heroes out with my chimeras. Currently I'm thinking of running this list, but I would love some feedback Realm: Ghur Greatfray: Gravespawn Leaders: Tzaangor Shaman (General: Unraveling Aura, Viletide, Gryph Feather Charm) Beastlord (Mutating Gnarlblade) Great Bray Shaman (Tendrils of Atrophy) Battleline: 10 Tzaangors 2x10 Ungors Behemoth: 2 Chimeras Other 20x Bestigors 6x Skyfires Battalion: Phantasmagoria 1950/2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus The Blue Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 hours ago, SugarMaple82 said: Hi all, I'm a long time Tzeentch player looking for a change up and noticed that there's plenty of crossover with Beasts of Chaos (and also I can finally run my 8th WFB edition double chimera and still have an allegiance bonus!). So far I've got plenty of skyfires, 2 chimeras, a 10 man tzaangor and a start collecting and was unsure where to take it next. I've got a list idea, but I'm worried about model count/effectiveness of units like ungors besides for summoning Spawns. I imagine a first turn where I ambush the tzaangors and bestigors, summon a spawn and spend the command point for both of them to get an extra attack and charge then snipe heroes out with my chimeras. Currently I'm thinking of running this list, but I would love some feedback Realm: Ghur Greatfray: Gravespawn Leaders: Tzaangor Shaman (General: Unraveling Aura, Viletide, Gryph Feather Charm) Beastlord (Mutating Gnarlblade) Great Bray Shaman (Tendrils of Atrophy) Battleline: 10 Tzaangors 2x10 Ungors Behemoth: 2 Chimeras Other 20x Bestigors 6x Skyfires Battalion: Phantasmagoria 1950/2000 Feels very fragile to me, Chimera are great offensively but won't last long which combined with the points spent on the battalion and Skyfires mean your going to be vastly outnumbered most of the time. I'd drop at least some of the more fragile stuff for more warm bodies. Ambushing Tzaangors and Bestigors feels like a bit of a waste to me, with a shammy around they can sgiftt and often get turn one charges in most missions (move 9", run d6+1 and charge). Without a big central threat or a way of delaying ambush, your opponent will most likely just screen against ambush turn one and they will end up further away from the action than if they deployed. (Both solid unit generally, but I'd deploy at least one of them) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrdin Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) I second Magnus. 2 Chimeras and 6 Skyfires is a no go combination. Sure its ton of damage. But fragile damage in already a low bodycount list. And you are not going to overkill a melee dedicated army. I would drop one Chimera and beef out the numbers. More Ungors, More Bestigors > You are saving 60pts if you make it 30. You need somethign to outlast your enemy while your objective campers rack up the points and Skyfires delete those of your opponent. Edited January 14, 2019 by Myrdin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRogalDorn Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Hey all, I'd appreciate some list critiquing. I'm going to be trying this out in a few weeks, and I want to see what the herd trust has to say. Great Bray Shaman and Shaggoth will stay behind at the herdstone and sacrifice ungors/countercharge things that make it past my lines. Bestigors will ambush with the beastlord. Tzaangors will move up to try and take/hold the middle with enlightened support. Depending on the mission/opponent I'll also ambush 1 unit of tzaangors. Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos- Greatfray: GavespawnMortal Realm: GhurBeastlord (90)- Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (180)- Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering BladesGreat Bray Shaman (100)- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Vicious StranglethornsTzaangor Shaman (180)- General- Trait: Unravelling Aura - Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm - Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of Atrophy10 x Ungors (60)- Mauls & Half-Shields20 x Tzaangors of Beasts of Chaos (360)- 10x Pair of Savage Blade- 8x Savage Greatblade- 2x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield20 x Tzaangors of Beasts of Chaos (360)- 10x Pair of Savage Blade- 8x Savage Greatblade- 2x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield10 x Bestigors (120)6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)Phantasmagoria of Fate (200)Chronomantic Cogs (60)Total: 1990 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entombet Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Need advice that my army is on last stages od painting, what you think about this roster? Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos- Greatfray: GavespawnDragon Ogor Shaggoth (180)- General- Trait: Unravelling Aura Beastlord (90)- Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade Great Bray Shaman (100)- Artefact: The Knowing Eye Tzaangor Shaman (180)40 x Ungors (200)- Shortspears & Half-Shields10 x Ungors (60)- Mauls & Half-Shields10 x Ungors (60)- Mauls & Half-Shields30 x Bestigors (300)40 x Ungor Raiders (320)6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc(280)Phantasmagoria of Fate (200)Total: 1970 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 180 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrdin Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Entombet - I was thinking about a list very similar to yours, now that I got 6 Enlightened and Tzaan shaman finally done. The difference is mostly that I plan to split the 40 ungors in two smaller blocks of 20 as this kinda reduces the loss from battleshock, and allows for more zone control. As for objective holding I would drop one unit of Ungors and take 5 centigors. Same amount of wounds, better save vs shooting, but twice as fast > In case you play the moving objectives, this can be invaluable. Personally I think you are going a bit too magic Heavy. I would swap the Shaggoth for maybe another BL and either add something fast (10 flank assault Centigors.), annoying (several single model Razorgors), or "Pretend you are scary" to soak some enemy fire (Cygor/Gorghon, 3x Dragon Ogers , Minotaurs, Jabberslythe) and just take the heat of your other stuff. Or alternatively if you intent to go this magic heavy, taking one or two endless spells like Dirge Horne and Pendelum, Geminids or Cogs might be also an interesting venture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entombet Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Myrdin, one ungors are planned to sacrifice themselfs to tsientsin, second ones act as screen for enlighted. I took block of 40 ungors to hawe second big block to soak the wounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasman Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 (edited) On 1/14/2019 at 4:04 AM, Myrdin said: If you want them for that reason, then you want to go with 40. Simply due to the fact that you need some ablative sponge Wounds to keep them from loosing 1 model and immediately loosing the Rerolls of 1-2s. Plus those 40, while short in range, can dish out surprising amount of dakka if left unchecked Keep them alive and those re-rolls will do a lot. (Granted anything with 4+ save is gonna ignore them, but 5+ save 1W models ? Oh yessssh) 40 is the way to go..... with all the shots, they can be a real pain. I've taken Valkia and a bloodsecrator off the table with one turn of shooting, splitting shots.Then had them pump arrows into anything that came near until they were gone. Spent some points and brought back a couple smaller ambush units to annoy the heck out of my opponent. It worked well. Edited January 15, 2019 by Tasman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandamina Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Hi guys, is this competitive enough to bring to the tournament? One drop and up to 7 PC points on the first turn. Is heavy summoning list worth it or i should try something else? Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos- Greatfray: AllherdLeadersTzaangor Shaman (180)- General- Trait: Dominator - Artefact: Blade of the Desecrator - Lore of the Twisted Wilds: ViletideGreat Bray Shaman (100)- Artefact: The Knowing Eye - Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of AtrophyBattleline20 x Tzaangors of Beasts of Chaos (360)- 11x Pair of Savage Blade- 8x Savage Greatblade- 1x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield10 x Ungors (60)- Mauls & Half-Shields10 x Ungors (60)- Mauls & Half-ShieldsUnits6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)BattalionsPhantasmagoria of Fate (200)Total: 1240 / 1250Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 200Wounds: 95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Yellow_Sign Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Pandamina said: Hi guys, is this competitive enough to bring to the tournament? One drop and up to 7 PC points on the first turn. Is heavy summoning list worth it or i should try something else? Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos- Greatfray: AllherdLeadersTzaangor Shaman (180)- General- Trait: Dominator - Artefact: Blade of the Desecrator - Lore of the Twisted Wilds: ViletideGreat Bray Shaman (100)- Artefact: The Knowing Eye - Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of AtrophyBattleline20 x Tzaangors of Beasts of Chaos (360)- 11x Pair of Savage Blade- 8x Savage Greatblade- 1x Savage Blade & Arcanite Shield10 x Ungors (60)- Mauls & Half-Shields10 x Ungors (60)- Mauls & Half-ShieldsUnits6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280)BattalionsPhantasmagoria of Fate (200)Total: 1240 / 1250Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 200Wounds: 95 Aetherquartz Brooch is superior to Knowing Eye as soon as you start with more than 1 CP. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SugarMaple82 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 (edited) On 1/14/2019 at 1:28 PM, Magnus The Blue said: Feels very fragile to me, Chimera are great offensively but won't last long which combined with the points spent on the battalion and Skyfires mean your going to be vastly outnumbered most of the time. I'd drop at least some of the more fragile stuff for more warm bodies. Ambushing Tzaangors and Bestigors feels like a bit of a waste to me, with a shammy around they can sgiftt and often get turn one charges in most missions (move 9", run d6+1 and charge). Without a big central threat or a way of delaying ambush, your opponent will most likely just screen against ambush turn one and they will end up further away from the action than if they deployed. (Both solid unit generally, but I'd deploy at least one of them) Thanks for the advice! That's about what I was afraid of with the list - Do you think running another big unit of bestigors shore it up better? Something along the lines of swapping the beastlord to be the general (for battleline bestigors) and then dropping 1 chimera and 1 unit of ungors for a block of 30 more bestigors (this would put me at 1970, so I still couldn't quite bump up the second unit to 30). I don't love the ungor models so running a stack of 40 doesn't seem ideal to me and I can keep the 10 to sacrifice on the stone. I've heard skyfires are pretty bad in units of 3 for beasts of chaos, is that due to the lack of destiny dice for hero snipes? I'd rather run 2 chimeras and a unit of 3 skyfires than 1 chimera and a unit of 6 but I don't want to gimp the unit. Edit: Second question - does anyone know what size base tzaangor enlightened on foot use? Edited January 16, 2019 by SugarMaple82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 46 minutes ago, SugarMaple82 said: Edit: Second question - does anyone know what size base tzaangor enlightened on foot use? I think it's same base size as normal tzaangors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Yellow_Sign Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, kenshin620 said: I think it's same base size as normal tzaangors. No, still 40mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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