AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

 

Personally I would love to see the old Empire get a proper Battletome. The models are all there, just need to give them updated rules just like they did with BoC and the army is ready to rock n roll. No reason for GW to have models for sale that have no rules thus no reason for people to buy them (other than for collecting and converting).

Yeah that’s something Gw should do for multiple armies.would love to see a mixed battletome for the skaven race

1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

Well hopefully there will be no more Stormcast sh*t for a while. They already have more then double the units and such to choose from.

If I’m not mistaken, Sc have even more units (including heroes) than destruction, chaos and the rest of the order factions combined together.

 Even if they are Gws playboy right now, they already had enough intention.

any more love for them and the Stormcast faction will just crumble.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[Duke of Gisoreux]

6 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

If I’m not mistaken, Sc have even more units (including heroes) than destruction, chaos and the rest of the order factions combined together.

That's wrong. Stormcasts are the largest faction in AoS of course, but they only have 55 different units (counting current warscrolls):

•  GA Order (excluding Stormcast) has 255 units
•  GA Chaos has 252 units
•  GA Destruction has 95 units
•  GA Death has 93 units

 

 

[kenshin620]

So it's been a few months now the book is out, has anyone had any success with Allherd? Is that extra summon point worth the trouble of lugging around the trait and item?

[Skreech Verminking]

9 hours ago, Duke of Gisoreux said:

That's wrong. Stormcasts are the largest faction in AoS of course, but they only have 55 different units (counting current warscrolls):

•  GA Order (excluding Stormcast) has 255 units
•  GA Chaos has 252 units
•  GA Destruction has 95 units
•  GA Death has 93 units

 

 

Ah,  so the stormcast faction still needs some extra units.😂

Edited December 17, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[SirPug]

1 hour ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Ah,  so the stormcast faction still needs some extra units.😂

We could always use primaris stormcast (slightly larger stormcasts with less options than regular, but still.better in every way) and Sigmar who would give rerolls to everyone near him.....

Also why not just regular stormcasts but inside a stormcast, so double the fun, quadruple the monetary price! Everyone wins!

Edited December 17, 2018 by SirPug

[The_Yellow_Sign]

15 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

So it's been a few months now the book is out, has anyone had any success with Allherd? Is that extra summon point worth the trouble of lugging around the trait and item?

Yeah Allherd is very good in low points games; I took them to a 1250 point tournament a couple months ago with Desolating Beastherd and Aetherquartz Brooch for extra CP, and got 3 wins, 2 draws. The artefact is trash so just stick it on whatever hero and don't invest any points into it (e.g. don't bother taking a Beastlord or Doombull).

Edited December 17, 2018 by The_Yellow_Sign

[kenshin620]

4 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Yeah Allherd is very good in low points games; I took them to a 1250 point tournament a couple months ago with Desolating Beastherd and Aetherquartz Brooch for extra CP, and got 3 wins, 2 draws. The artefact is trash so just stick it on whatever hero and don't invest any points into it (e.g. don't bother taking a Beastlord or Doombull).

Yea I imagine Point generators being very lethal at small point games. (I always find it funny that in Path to Glory, RAW nothing stops you from using summoning mechanics...)

Wish the item at the very least gave -1 rend at base value. The item literally does nothing against monsters, heroes, or multiwound 5 man units like blightkings. Maybe they should have written it as you count the number of wounds and every 5 total wounds you get -1 rend. It does seem weird that it is an item than helps you kill hordes, who usually never have armor saves over 5+, 4+ with shields. So having any weapon with a rend above -3 is overkill.

Plus in context of units, the blade marginally helps the beastlord, though he would prefer to buff his damage instead.

Doombull already has -2 rend so thats way overkill, instead he'd rather get more attacks or better rolls.

DOS can just take their own special magic axe giving a straight -3 rend.

 

Because the item is meant to counter hordes, it should give an extra attack per 10 models! Then some more interesting things could happen (like combining it with Desolation Beastherd).

[Myrdin]

My thoughts pretty much.

The Item would be servicable if the scaling was lowered by 1 lvl.

-1 base, -2 vs 10, -3 vs 20 (which would happen rarely but not impossible).

The Allherd skill for Battleshock should be unlimited. Just flat -1 to all battleshock test, not ones who happen in a particullar turn,.. (wtf is that sh*t of a restriction anyway ?!).

The CP for summoning point should be D3 or at least 2, and voila suddenly its a solid perk, that works well for whats its meant to do..

The Command Trait would also be great, if the sentence was shorter and ended before "if within 3" of an enemy unit".

I mean Allherd would be great with a little tweak here and there, but its been SOOOOO over balanced its utter rubbish. For little gain you get so much horrible additional baggage. And its really infuriatiing to me as I like the Allherd lore the most, and the idea itself is great. The item, ability and trait all have visible potential to be great tools in a Beastlords toolbox, and all it would take is just little tweaking of the wording.

 

The Darkwalkers I find pretty OK. I mean sometimes its nice to use ambushing your big guys as a silent threat and board control tool, especially if you combine it with the ability to bring them in on the 2nd turn,

Desolate shard though, is way to restrictive again. You get a D3 dmg on a 4+ chance, once per battle, and only on a unit that is close to a terrain. I mean thats so many restrictions for such little gain, why even bother. I would get rid of the Once per battle thing. You would still be limited with 4+ hit roll. So maybe drop that one to a 3+ or remove it completely as well. And before anyone says anything. I`ve seen SCE use similar abilities (or items) but without the need to roll to hit soo yeah...

Gawespawn, honestly are pretty good. Personally I would change the ability of the spawn either to an AoE aura thing, But thats not required its more of a optimalization thing from my perspective than anything else.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Myrdin

[kenshin620]

32 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

Desolate shard though, is way to restrictive again. You get a D3 dmg on a 4+ chance, once per battle, and only on a unit that is close to a terrain. I mean thats so many restrictions for such little gain, why even bother. I would get rid of the Once per battle thing. You would still be limited with 4+ hit roll. So maybe drop that one to a 3+ or remove it completely as well.

Yea my thoughts exactly, a situational item that becomes not one use would make for a far more strategic item, forcing enemies to rethink hugging terrain. Combined with vicious stranglethorns and you can really disrupt enemy movement.

Plus it is kind of weird that Dark Walkers, mostly used to Ambush Bullgors and Dragon Ogors, gives a terrain bomb. Nothing that synergies well for a DOS or Doombull.

 

I'm curious if we "give enough feedback" (aka complain)  😜     there could possibly be changes to Sub-Factions in the next generals handbook. Kind of sucks that SCE (give them some slack, they truly have some dire subfactions) and BoC were the guinea pigs for the new system that I assume will be "the standard" for all subfactions for the future. Watch out KO! Your precious skyports might become extremely optional!

Edited December 17, 2018 by kenshin620

[Amradiel]

Can you play like Gavespawn and still use battalions (Phantasmagoria of fate)? 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Amradiel

[kenshin620]

2 hours ago, Amradiel said:

Can you play like Gavespawn and still use battalions (Phantasmagoria of fate)? 

Yes, great frays and battalions are not exclusive so feel free to mix and match. Not like Legions of Nagash who have a few battalions that are legion specific.

[Amradiel]

7 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Yes, great frays and battalions are not exclusive so feel free to mix and match. Not like Legions of Nagash who have a few battalions that are legion specific.

Great. Thank you for the reply

[Sauriv]

Hi all, i'm new to this forum and I haven't been able to play with my BoC army much yet. I have searched the web a number of times but cant find anything about this. I have some questions regarding keywords for the greatfrays. 

I'm most interested in the GreatFray: Gavespawn  

1: units i summon (using primordial call) do they get the Gavespawn keyword as well?

I'm thinking yes because i assume the chaosspawn i add to my army then a hero dies gets the keyword.

2: so just to be sure; does my chaos spawn, when a hero dies, get the Gavespawn keyword? 

I would be really happy go get some rule references if possible. ❤️ 

[Skreech Verminking]

27 minutes ago, Sauriv said:

Hi all, i'm new to this forum and I haven't been able to play with my BoC army much yet. I have searched the web a number of times but cant find anything about this. I have some questions regarding keywords for the greatfrays. 

I'm most interested in the GreatFray: Gavespawn  

1: units i summon (using primordial call) do they get the Gavespawn keyword as well?

I'm thinking yes because i assume the chaosspawn i add to my army then a hero dies gets the keyword.

2: so just to be sure; does my chaos spawn, when a hero dies, get the Gavespawn keyword? 

I would be really happy go get some rule references if possible. ❤️ 

I believe that they get the keyword from your greatfray too.

 

[Sauriv]

Nice, thank you Skreech Verminking. It becomes more clear when it says "All of your Beasts of Chaos units in your army gets..." and the fact that summoning a unit is "added to your army".  
Just wanted to make sure before going against my friends who are very likely to start arguing about this kind of stuff 

[kenshin620]

Hmmm I wonder if this thing is as big as the taurus spell for some model variety

 

Spoiler

 

[Maddpainting]

Getting into BoC finally. But a really quick question while i'm building my force. Whiling i'm ordering and building, i wanted to make sure if i need anything else.

I will have 3 Start collecting boxes, 10 Centigors, 1 Shaggoth,  2 Gor boxes. endless spells/Heardstone, playing at 2000pts.

Should i get 1 more Gor box? And what do i need after that for summoning, or is this enough? 
PS: should i make one of the 3 Ghorgons into a Cygor? Or make all 3 Ghorgons?

Oh, PPS, is there any artifact/Command trait/Spell combos you like?

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Maddpainting
Added text

[The_Yellow_Sign]

8 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Getting into BoC finally. But a really quick question while i'm building my force. Whiling i'm ordering and building, i wanted to make sure if i need anything else.

I will have 3 Start collecting boxes, 10 Centigors, 1 Shaggoth,  2 Gor boxes. endless spells/Heardstone, playing at 2000pts.

Should i get 1 more Gor box? And what do i need after that for summoning, or is this enough? 
PS: should i make one of the 3 Ghorgons into a Cygor? Or make all 3 Ghorgons?

Oh, PPS, is there any artifact/Command trait/Spell combos you like?

 

Gors kind of suck right now. Bestigors hit harder, and Ungors fill the horde and chaff roles much better. But I'm hoping that if GW has any sense then they will do something about the points to make Gors more attractive in GHB 2019. 

I would build one as a Cygor for variety. You probably wouldn't want to run 3 Ghorgons in a list anyway.  Cygor is overcosted at the moment but I hope GW will fix his points in GHB 2019 as well.

[Maddpainting]

Im not worried about points, i know GH2 will come out.

Im more worreid about what i have now, and if there is a must uni that i dont have, also what are the good combos for spells/relics/command traits. Comming from Deepkin, there are a few key ones, like the Teleporting Tidecaster to attempt to snipe out 2 low wound characters (like Priests), or Ethereal Amulet on the King to he can get his buff without taking -1 to armor saves. etc..

Knowing i can get only 2-4 Summoning points a turn (I think?) is it worth to summon 10ma Ungors every turn? or wait 2 turns for a slightly better unit?

[The_Yellow_Sign]

1 hour ago, Maddpainting said:

Im not worried about points, i know GH2 will come out.

Im more worreid about what i have now, and if there is a must uni that i dont have, also what are the good combos for spells/relics/command traits. Comming from Deepkin, there are a few key ones, like the Teleporting Tidecaster to attempt to snipe out 2 low wound characters (like Priests), or Ethereal Amulet on the King to he can get his buff without taking -1 to armor saves. etc..

Knowing i can get only 2-4 Summoning points a turn (I think?) is it worth to summon 10ma Ungors every turn? or wait 2 turns for a slightly better unit?

Enlightened are the hardest-hitting and arguably best unit in Beasts of Chaos at the moment. Skyfires are also very good, despite the nerf to their shooting.

Summon Bestigors, Ungors, Raiders, Centigors, Warhounds, or Chariots depending on the situation.

[Sauriv]

I'm not too experienced but i can share some of my thoughts of good and funny combos. 

Gravespawn command ability + titanic fury: will make your ghorgon a dmg monster with 7 attacks with 3 dmg, and 3 attacks with D6 dmg (require chaos spawn though)

Gavespawn artifact + brass despoilers; makes up for the drawback on the artifact (i use it currently on my doombull; 3 attacks, - 2 rend, 5 dmg) 

Make shaggoth a melee monster: Lightning-fast monstrosity + Lightning-chained Bracers; (cast spell on self) will make him go first in combat (if charged) and reroll all hit and wound rolls. 

Commanpoints forever, you will have many bray in your list and by giving shaggoth ancient beyond knowing and a shaman with The knowing eye, you can run and charge (brey stuff) so consistently by spending CP for run- and charge-rolls. CP; Begin with 1 +D3, get 2/turn with a 50% chance. 

My favorite spells: (brey) savage dominion and titanic fury. (Thunderscorn) hailstorm

[Skreech Verminking]

2 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

Knowing i can get only 2-4 Summoning points a turn (I think?) is it worth to summon 10ma Ungors every turn? or wait 2 turns for a slightly better unit?

Well we do have summoning.

but  I wouldn’t see it as a “you must get the best out of it situation.”

use summoning as a tool which is meant to help you take objective from the enemy.

be sure that they are a key element in taking objective, afterall you want your foe to hit and kill them and not your main army.

they are meant to die so don’t worry about your summoned units.

and when your foe/ opponent is distracted, hit him hard with your main army.

But should he not give a ****** for your summoned units, and still be at the tail of your main army, then well you won anyways.your mission is to only hold the objective and hope to gain more victory points then your opponent and with the ignorance of your foe acknowledging what Ungors are really capable of doing, that’ll be easy.

 

[Myrdin]

just two cents from me.

If you can, and want something that smashes stuff (as in what Bullgors were meant to do but never grow to that potential), ally SoD Skin Wolves in.

I ran a unit of 6. Those 6 evaporate stuff. You think Tzaangors are deadly ? You need to see the Skin wolves in action. Admittedly they as durable as a wet tissue is, and while faster then most infantry stuff, they are understandably slower then Enlightened on discs. The upside is though that they do not need a Shaman babysitting them, and while the bigger bases can be a detriment, it can also work in your favor for multi charging.

The unit I tested multi charged two KO Zeppelins, I allocated attacks incorrectly as I didn't know just how good this unit s and wanted to make sure to take at least one down. They killed one that had 10W, and almost killed one that had I think 12W down to 2.

So yeah, other then Demon Princes, Skin wolves are one of the few things we can ally in, that can pull its own weight and is just fun to use.

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by Myrdin

[Sauriv]

13 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

just two cents from me.

If you can, and want something that smashes stuff (as in what Bullgors were meant to do but never grow to that potential), ally SoD Skin Wolves in.

I ran a unit of 6. Those 6 evaporate stuff. You think Tzaangors are deadly ? You need to see the Skin wolves in action. Admittedly they as durable as a wet tissue is, and while faster then most infantry stuff, they are understandably slower then Enlightened on discs. The upside is though that they do not need a Shaman babysitting them, and while the bigger bases can be a detriment, it can also work in your favor for multi charging.

The unit I tested multi charged two KO Zeppelins, I allocated attacks incorrectly as I didn't know just how good this unit s and wanted to make sure to take at least one down. They killed one that had 10W, and almost killed one that had I think 12W down to 2.

So yeah, other then Demon Princes, Skin wolves are one of the few things we can ally in, that can pull its own weight and is just fun to use.

 

Are skin wolfs really legal to use?! Don't seem to belong to slaves of darkness. 

[Pandamina]

8 minutes ago, Sauriv said:

Are skin wolfs really legal to use?! Don't seem to belong to slaves of darkness. 

They don't belong to slaves of darkness indeed.