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AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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4 minutes ago, peasant said:

9what do.you think of that spear? too thin? the blade is ok or prefer the usual pointy ?thx in advance

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I think it looks fine, but I personally dislike slashing polearms like glaives and halberds being used one-handed with shields in fantasy because I know that it doesn't make sense from a martial or biomechanical point of view. And I can't think of any historical example of them being used this way.

Edited by The_Yellow_Sign
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1 minute ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

I think it looks fine, but I personally dislike slashing polearms like glaives and halberds being used one-handed with shields in fantasy because I know that it doesn't make sense. I can't think of any historical example of them being used this way.

yeah you.are right! I unsconciusly found something weird but you.put IT in.words.  I think the centigor has to use IT two handed or with a buckler

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4 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

I think it looks fine, but I personally dislike slashing polearms like glaives and halberds being used one-handed with shields in fantasy because I know that it doesn't make sense from a martial or biomechanical point of view. And I can't think of any historical example of them being used this way.

I find that less of an issue rather than the dwarf issue. I think no matter how you cut it, dwarfs being "strong" sort of make no sense since no matter how much muscle you put into an arm, it's still an arm thats like half the length of a adult humans arm. So unless they're some sort of super hydraulic piston I'm not sure how they can be great at combat.

But hey this is fantasy where animals with wings can fly...no matter how small the wings are or how heavy the animal is!

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4 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

I find that less of an issue rather than the dwarf issue. I think no matter how you cut it, dwarfs being "strong" sort of make no sense since no matter how much muscle you put into an arm, it's still an arm thats like half the length of a adult humans arm. So unless they're some sort of super hydraulic piston I'm not sure how they can be great at combat.

But hey this is fantasy where animals with wings can fly...no matter how small the wings are or how heavy the animal is!

Haha good point. Funnily enough I’m currently rereading the Gotrek saga and they keep making the point that not only dwarf muscle is denser it also is trained to the max by working in the mines their whole youth. And that scribes etc are considered fysically ‘soft’. 

So they used to kind of try to explain but.... ur-gold runes grafted into their flesh works as well ?

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1 hour ago, Kramer said:

So they used to kind of try to explain but.... ur-gold runes grafted into their flesh works as well ?

Sigmar solves things by opening new chambers, dwarfs solve things by hammering on rad tattoos! ?️‍♂️

 

3 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

They do not, they have 1 option now. 

Yea if it can't be built with the box (or blister pack) it can't exist! Maybe if they made a Doombull plastic kit they would, though even then I doubt they'll give more weapon options.

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15 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

But hey this is fantasy where animals with wings can fly...no matter how small the wings are or how heavy the animal is!

 

You just reminded me of the time I was converting my Jabber with some unusual bits. Had these tiny bat wings the size of a standard infantry model, and was thinking about this same thing you wrote here. After a long inner fight I decided to not go full silly mode  and use the tiny bat wings on an over sized mutated gecko-frog or whatever Jabber is supposed to be.  Used ones from a deamon prince (or something that size) instead.  But the temptation was real and it was kinda cute (as cute as far one can consider this gribbly thing being cute) when I put them on him just temporarily just for the lolz :D

Edited by Myrdin
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9 hours ago, Myrdin said:

 

You just reminded me of the time I was converting my Jabber with some unusual bits. Had these tiny bat wings the size of a standard infantry model, and was thinking about this same thing you wrote here. After a long inner fight I decided to not go full silly mode  and use the tiny bat wings on an over sized mutated gecko-frog or whatever Jabber is supposed to be.  Used ones from a deamon prince (or something that size) instead.  But the temptation was real and it was kinda cute (as cute as far one can consider this gribbly thing being cute) when I put them on him just temporarily just for the lolz :D

The Jabber flies with the power of IMAGINATION! ?

(and terror, so much terror!)

Actually this may explain the aura of madness..."Egads, theres no way that animal can fly! My mind is literally blown!"

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On 10/20/2018 at 10:45 PM, peasant said:

Im waiting for those pictures! maybe o can get some horsemen marauders

 

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Took some pictures. Admittedly the light was bad so had to my table lamp.

Anyway, here are the 5 centigors I am currently working on. As you can see they are still lacking this and that, since there is plenty of work to be done on the part where the two torsos were forged togather. 4 of them are different characters from Mierce Miniature, the last one is a tuskgor chariot crew member.

The Mierce Mini beastmen are bit bulkier and gnarly looking and fit perfectly when combined with the Chaos Marauder horses, which are quite massive as far as horse mounts are considered. The results is these  quite massive Centigors. They were ment to be used in 9thA, so they have all manner of weapons and non rectangular bases. Will be rebasing them for AoS though as I love the BoC in AoS more than Beastmen in 9thA (which still have the same shortcomings and problem Beastmen had back in the day when Warhammer Fantasy was still around.)

Edited by Myrdin
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10 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Speaking of 3rd party stuff I know it's probably a big fat "no", but does anyone make chaos themed gutplates and accessories for ogres to make chaos ogors?

Edit: I missunderstood your comment.  Damn and it was such a nice rant about 3rd party stuff too ! :D 

I would look for a 3D printed ones,  that would be your best bet I suppose. Alternatively there are people who will for a fee make them for you in the graphic program used togather with 3D printing, and then send you the file so you can print them anywhere where there is a 3D printer .

 

Since I think its still a decent topic I`ll just keep the rant below in under spoilers

I will be "on topic ranting" here as far as the discussion of 3rd party > yes or no goes,  a little so in order to save the space .... abra kadabra alakazam (dat pokemon reference ) !

Spoiler tab ! :D

Spoiler

This is purely my understanding and interpretation / opinion regarding this. Feel free to disagree, but please be civil about it.

What makes something a 3rd party ? Is it the Company ? Or is it the Game itself ? If you for example use Warmachine/Hordes Cryx Satixis in your AoS DoK army, those would be considered 3rd Party ? Technically yes, as they are not a GW product. They are not illegal though, as Privateer Press is a proper, well respected company who produces their own line of miniatures and a game.

So as along as the models look the part, and your opponent is fine with you using proxy (honestly, most players are also hobbyist and everyone loves unique looking armies. I myself have never even heard of this being an issue outside of GW endorsed tournaments and their stores). The PP models are a proxy 3rd party in your AoS army, but are fully legal as far as production and IP is concerned, and are THE correct product to use if you wanted to play Warmachine/Hordes, since that is their native game/format.

Two more examples: Mierce Miniatures and Raging Heroes

Mierce Miniature is I believe UK based miniature company with high quality miniatures. They have miniatures that put those of GW to shame, but are more expensive then GWs. They had a 30% off this week, which made the prices actually reasonable and they do these discounts few times a year (next -30% should be during Black Friday). Got myself few new Beastmen from them since they look great. I know some players who prefer to use MM giant mutated minotaur thingy (dont remember the name. MM have horrible naming sense for their models :D ) as a Gorghon proxy simply because it looks so bad*ss.

*Raging Heroes. Very expensive miniature producer, with outstanding high detail sculpts. The material though is a bit more fragile and must be handled with extreme care, which is something I would like to see remedied considering the cost of the miniatures.  They started with doing 40K inspired original sculpts, then added more and more of their own unique stuff. Recently they started to expand their Fantasy line with Slaaneshi inspired  demon elves, and botch standard Dark elves.

For me myself: The glamour 80ties look of GW Witch Elf sculpts has never done it for me (I do love the Khinerai harpies and Morathi models though. I like the Melusai as well though those could have been more dynamic in my opinion), I use the Blood Vestals for my Battle Line Witch Elves proxy, and they fit the bill perfectly as anyone can tell what they are meant to be (and their poses are more dynamic as well). Those who have seen RG stuff personally will vouch for the above standard quality. 

Now for bits - since we are talking about "Fantasy" or "Sci-fy" you can make any type of bitz for anything, and as loong at it isnt pure plagiarism, and doesnt steal the IP of another product it should be fine. For example - lets say you make a Jet Pack kit, that looks different from what GW has for their Space Marines. There might be a player who wants a more unique look for his SM chapter, and buys this kit to use on his Assault Marines.

As far as I can tell since the majority of the model is GW product, the model as a whole, even if using 3rd party bits, is still accepted as "OK no problem" in GW stores and tournaments. 

If you are into 40K you can find shoulder pads for pretty much every existing Astartes chapter that was ever created and had an official symbol. Or Tau Sept insignia, etc etc. All of these are legal as far as I have read upon it, but I am not a Law guy, just talking about what I`ve read myself.

Now this is how mine, and the players I interact with personal experience, regarding this matter. 

Wast majority of table top wargamers, just love to move their plastic/metal/fine...(This is Inquisitor Toth: Be warned Captain. We do NOT talk about finecast!)...errr resin ? Yes, ahem, basically as long as people can tell what is what, and it looks the part, pretty much nobody cares if its a model from a different company. 

My outlook on this is something like: part collector / part hobbyist and a smaller part player as well (though I wanna do that more with AoS). I like the miniature ? I`ll find a way to fit it into an army I have (though not always possible :D ). There are many companies these days who produce fantastic models and unless you plan to have full Games Workshop endorsed army, which is ONLY required in their own tournaments and shop (ETC doesnt care, nor do any smaller tournaments. Heck I`ve seen pictures of literall SMURFmarine army, or a dude playing full hand-sculpted derpy looking Serafon and such), anywhere else you are free to use whatever you want ?

My army consist of many 3rd party models and conversions, all of which add flavor and more unique character.  I am in full support of this, as this is primarily a hobby and only after that a game.

 

Re-casters on the other hand are usually scoffed at by people (but lets be honest here, good amount of people use their services regardless. I am guilty as well). Yes the prices are much more reasonable, and depending on the re-caster the quality may be the same as the original, but technically it is pirating, IP infringement and all that fun stuff > basically its NOT LEGAL.

*While still not legal, Re-casters tend to have items that are not produced anymore by the original company. Examle would be the Kroot Knarloc riders and Greater Knarloc from Forge World. Those have been long since discontinued and no new sculpts have been made to continue these products (rumors claim they might return but I personally dont put much faith into that ).  In those cases, I am not sure about the legality as I am no lawyer.  

Granted, NOBODY will scrape of the paint from models you spent eternity painting to satisfaction, drill a hole, take a sample of plastic to a lab, and after few days declaring "HAHA ! This is a Recast ! You cannot use these in this store anymore you filthy heretic !"

Similar like with PC games, you "can" play the pirated version, and if you like it, buy the real thing to support the Devs.  Still not OK from official standpoint, but its a good comparison (plus many people who played a pirated game and liked it went and bough a copy of the original afterwards, since Demo versions are no longer a thing these days.)

So in the end the question whether to use Re-casts is up to you, I can not endorse this, however I personally will not judge you either for doing so.

End of my rant.

Disclaimer: Everything written above is just my subjective opinion formed from my own experience within the hobby and should not be taken as legal advice nor 100% correct by any mean. Opinions of others may vary. :D

 

Edited by Myrdin
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36 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

Why would it be a big fat no ?

I'm not sure if you know what '3rd party' means. It's an expression that means another company (third, as in not you, as the customer, and not second as in the company that produces a model) makes accessories that you can use on official models (like gutplates for GW ogres).

Unless that 3rd party is really careful (or stays very broad in the description of usage for it's bits), it's treacgerous legal grounds and often an invite for a C&D from companies like GW. That's why 'no-go' was mentioned ...

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5 hours ago, Mutter said:

Unless that 3rd party is really careful (or stays very broad in the description of usage for it's bits), it's treacgerous legal grounds and often an invite for a C&D from companies like GW. That's why 'no-go' was mentioned ...

Ehh I think really that issue has less to do with the nonexistence of chaos bits for ogres and more that there is basically a very small market for them. (plus its probably not hard to name the bits "dark legion brute stomach armor" or something)

Even with 9th age makers, its probably very low on the priority list of things to make.

 

The only real reason I'm asking is because I like the idea of using chaos ogors as bullgor stand ins but they're gonna need a lot of appropriately sized chaos bits!

 

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1 hour ago, kenshin620 said:

Ehh I think really that issue has less to do with the nonexistence of chaos bits for ogres and more that there is basically a very small market for them. (plus its probably not hard to name the bits "dark legion brute stomach armor" or something)

Even with 9th age makers, its probably very low on the priority list of things to make.

 

The only real reason I'm asking is because I like the idea of using chaos ogors as bullgor stand ins but they're gonna need a lot of appropriately sized chaos bits!

 

Now that I think about it, I am pretty sure there were some chaos ogres somewhere on the internet.
Although I think those were chaos Bullgryns for 40k, with a bit of bits swapping and a little greenstuff I think you might have a decent shot at what you are aiming for. Did trying different keywords (not in the AoS sense :D ) in Google yield any results ?

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3 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

Is there anything that grants extra primordial call points besides Allherd command ability? And besides obviously sacrificing near the headstone. I thought I skimmed across something when I first got the book a couple weeks ago but cant find anything but Booming Roar.

There is not - we get our 1 a turn plus sacrifice (and allherd if you go that route). 

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Guys can someone maybe explain to me the wording of the Marauding Brayherd ?

"Add 1 to charge rolls for friendly BRAYHERD units from
this battalion that were set up on the battlefield during
the same turn."

 

I am not sure how to interpret this. Does this mean the units from this Battalion get +1 charge on the first/second turn they enter board (either normal deploy or Ambush) ?

For normal deployment > other than Centigors and maybe Chariots, this doesnt seem that good for a one time +1 to charge, especially if you deployed on the board, since you will still be far away. I can see this being somewhat interesting if you deploy via Ambush, shortening that 9" to 8" can make a difference. This would be nice for Enlightened maybe, but again, not part of the battalion.

But the lack of synergies is just bad. If you could use the Doombull with +2" to Charge Artifact, then yeah, I can see this being an interesting choice, and maybe running him as Allherd to get the command trait to synergize (would have to set him on the board though).

Other than Chronomantic Cogs (which is not guaranteed you can pull off) cast from a Shaman who is on the board, so that your ambushers can get +3 I dont see much use for this battalion. Especially if its only 1 time thing. If the price was 80-100 pts, and without such strict unit restriction, then it could have been good. Or am I missing something ?

Edited by Myrdin
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You don't get it for normal deployment, since units deployed normally are set up before the first turn of the game. It's purely for ambushers. And no, I don't think the battalion is all that hot. The bonus is nice, but the unit requirements are taxing and the price is high.

Edited by Solaris
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39 minutes ago, Solaris said:

You don't get it for normal deployment, since units deployed normally are set up before the first turn of the game. It's purely for ambushers. And no, I don't think the battalion is all that hot. The bonus is nice, but the unit requirements are taxing and the price is high.

 

Agreed, it does not count for units deployed in the deployment as that happens before the first turn. 

It is basically the same requirements as the old Wildstalker brayherd battaion but for a waaaaay inferior buff! And speaking of that, does the new book over rule the Wildstaker Brayherd Battalion? Can we still use it? 

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