AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Entombet]

Regarding 0,5" charge and doom&darkness battle report. How could he charge witch elves with enlighted behind ungors with their 1" bases?.

[decker_cky]

10 minutes ago, Entombet said:

Regarding 0,5" charge and doom&darkness battle report. How could he charge witch elves with enlighted behind ungors with their 1" bases?.

You can't but if the ungors are charged and enlightened end up within 3" of an enemy model, they can pile in and attack (this is the ideal use of foot enlightened - creating no-go zones from relative safety). 

Edited October 16, 2018 by decker_cky

[peasant]

I have a doubt can I shield bullgors with a row of gors and attack with the bullgors if I leave 1 inch between each gor?

[Megaboss Gorstag]

1 hour ago, peasant said:

I have a doubt can I shield bullgors with a row of gors and attack with the bullgors if I leave 1 inch between each gor?

Gors are on 32mm bases. That too far for bullgors with 1" reach to swing over. They would have to be spread pretty thin. Ungors with the 25mm bases would be the only shot at it consistently. The but it would still lack the relative safety of the enlighteneds reach. 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

3 hours ago, Entombet said:

Regarding 0,5" charge and doom&darkness battle report. How could he charge witch elves with enlighted behind ungors with their 1" bases?.

He only needs to get 1 model within 0.5" to complete the charge. The rest of the Enlightened hang back a little bit further, within pile-in range but out of range of the witches. Witches are stuck attacking Ungors, which they easily wipe out. Once the Ungors are deleted the Enlightened pile into the free open space and take advantage of their rerolls.

[Agent of Chaos]

As @The_Yellow_Sign said,  he charged the Ungors in first and pushed them hard up against the witches. Then he charged the enlightened in such that only one model was in range. The Ungors attack first, then the witches wipe out the ungor, which cleared the way for the whole enlightened unit to pile in and attack with their reroll buff activated. 

Edited October 16, 2018 by Agent of Chaos

[Carnith]

Hi all, I'm usually a Slaanesh player, but for an upcoming doubles sometime in the future, me and a friend are pairing up. The problem is, he runs beasts and since I run slaanesh daemons, where 5+ normal saves are everywhere, I was worried I could gimp myself. 

So my currently slaanesh list would be two giant squads of daemonettes, a greater daemon, and 2 support units. 

For a BoC list I made

Allegiance: Beasts Of Chaos
- Greatfray: Allherd
Great Bray Shaman (100)
Tzaangor Shaman (180)
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
10 x Ungors (60)
- Mauls & Half-Shields
9 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (420)
10 x Tzaangors (180)

Total: 1000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 20
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 87
 

With the idea of having the bray shaman stay back to sacrifice ungors while the enlightened and the shaman run up ahead and slam into a big unit. My buddy is still testing out lists, but likes a big squad of ungor raiders, big squad of gors, some bestigors, a shaman and a lord with gavespawn, and I think his last list had a spawn in it. 

[Frozenbeast]

Well, can you voluntarily brake coherency though? I don't think so. Because it is difficult to get a second unit within .5" without pushing two models of the same unit more than 1" apart one from the other. What I mean is he must have broken coherency for the unit of Ungors in order to get within .5" of the wiches with the Enlightened. And if he did so on purpose, can you do that? I guess it make sense to sacrifice Ungors as ultimately that is the purpose for them to take the hit from the wiches but can legally you do it? I mean if you can...Chapeau! that was a very well executed move. Although watching at the video it was not clear if Enlightened were actually within .5" or not.

[Satyrical Sophist]

10 minutes ago, Frozenbeast said:

Well, can you voluntarily brake coherency though? I don't think so. Because it is difficult to get a second unit within .5" without pushing two models of the same unit more than 1" apart one from the other. What I mean is he must have broken coherency for the unit of Ungors in order to get within .5" of the wiches with the Enlightened. And if he did so on purpose, can you do that? I guess it make sense to sacrifice Ungors as ultimately that is the purpose for them to take the hit from the wiches but can legally you do it? I mean if you can...Chapeau! that was a very well executed move. Although watching at the video it was not clear if Enlightened were actually within .5" or not.

Correct me if I am wrong, but can't you do it like this?

WWWWWWW

WWWWWWW

UUUUUUUUUE

                   EEEEE.

They'd get to direct a few attacks at enlightened, but only a few

 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

41 minutes ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but can't you do it like this?

WWWWWWW

WWWWWWW

UUUUUUUUUE

                   EEEEE.

They'd get to direct a few attacks at enlightened, but only a few

 

Yeah that's basically the idea. 

[Rarity Nouveau]

I recently got the SC and might get 1 or 2 more since they’re such a good value. So how should I build the Ungors? And what are better in your opinions, Cygors or Ghorgons? If it helps, I’m planning on running a fair amount of Tzaangors (including Shamans) since I already have a standing DoT Force.

[The_Yellow_Sign]

54 minutes ago, Rarity Nouveau said:

I recently got the SC and might get 1 or 2 more since they’re such a good value. So how should I build the Ungors? And what are better in your opinions, Cygors or Ghorgons? If it helps, I’m planning on running a fair amount of Tzaangors (including Shamans) since I already have a standing DoT Force.

Raiders are really good ranged units in a block of 40, and groups of 10 with blades make cheap and fast chaff. Groups of 40 with spears are a bit more situational, but they are pretty cheap and have reasonable damage output if you keep them near your herdstone.

Ghorgons are better than Cygors atm, since Cygors got a huge nerf from Look Out Sir. They should have given them an additional +1 to hit vs wizards to partly compensate. I'm hoping Cygors get a points drop to 140 or so in the next GHB.

Edited October 17, 2018 by The_Yellow_Sign

[Myrdin]

What if the Enlightened stod behind the Ungors ? They have 2" range so they should be fine, but then again, they did not charge so can they pile in ?

As for Cygor: He has the re-roll to hit against Wizards so even with the new look out sir rules he still can be fairly dangerous.

But yeah, I agree with the priced drop (not to 140 though, that would be a joke). 160 sounds just about fine.

Although, I would consider him for the current price, if they got rid of the Range decreasing part of  the Wound table . That one I think is way to harsh.

 

[Skreech Verminking]

12 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

What if the Enlightened stod behind the Ungors ? They have 2" range so they should be fine, but then again, they did not charge so can they pile in ?

As for Cygor: He has the re-roll to hit against Wizards so even with the new look out sir rules he still can be fairly dangerous.

But yeah, I agree with the priced drop (not to 140 though, that would be a joke). 160 sounds just about fine.

Although, I would consider him for the current price, if they got rid of the Range decreasing part of  the Wound table . That one I think is way to harsh.

 

Yes Tzaangors enlightenment ghtement or better said all units can make a pile in move when they are within 3 of a enemy unit.

so in other words.

best thing to do with enlightenments is to keep them behind your cheap chaff and get charged.

well your unogrs/Gors will probably die, but your Tzaangors and damage dealer will be save and can attack later.

a lose win situation for you

Your foe will have to rethink is charged next time he’ll see your enlightenments?

[Frozenbeast]

6 hours ago, Satyrical Sophist said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but can't you do it like this?

WWWWWWW

WWWWWWW

UUUUUUUUUE

                   EEEEE.

They'd get to direct a few attacks at enlightened, but only a few

 

 

Yeah I ve watched that part of the video again and that is actually what Doom does. I thought he'd fit an Enlightened between 2 Ungors. 

 

6 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Ghorgons are better than Cygors atm, since Cygors got a huge nerf from Look Out Sir. They should have given them an additional +1 to hit vs wizards to partly compensate. I'm hoping Cygors get a points drop to 140 or so in the next GHB.

 

Is it only me but I prefer rerollable 5+ than a straight 3+. That said Cygor is indeed  bit underwhelming. I would consider him in a wizard heavy meta (and maybe I would consider double too) or if they change the ability to "if a Wizard fails to cast a spell while within x" (18??) of any Cygor than he suffers a MW and one Cygor in range heals one wound". But as it is I always found it hard to take advantage of the MW.

[The_Yellow_Sign]

24 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

What if the Enlightened stod behind the Ungors ? They have 2" range so they should be fine, but then again, they did not charge so can they pile in ?

As for Cygor: He has the re-roll to hit against Wizards so even with the new look out sir rules he still can be fairly dangerous.

But yeah, I agree with the priced drop (not to 140 though, that would be a joke). 160 sounds just about fine.

Although, I would consider him for the current price, if they got rid of the Range decreasing part of  the Wound table . That one I think is way to harsh.

 

Enlightened have 2" range on spears but their beaks and disks have only 1" range on their beaks and disks. You can still attack over the Ungors since they have 25mm bases, but any unit that is worth sending your Enlightened against will wipe the 10 Ungors easily.

Also, even with rerolls Cygor's Boulder is pitiful against wizards that benefit from Look Out Sir: averages 1.62 wounds before saves.

Edited October 17, 2018 by The_Yellow_Sign

[Frozenbeast]

1 minute ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yes Tzaangors enlightenment ghtement or better said all units can make a pile in move when they are within 3 of a enemy unit.

so in other words.

best thing to do with enlightenments is to keep them behind your cheap chaff and get charged.

well your unogrs/Gors will probably die, but your Tzaangors and damage dealer will be save and can attack later.

a lose win situation for you

Your foe will have to rethink is charged next time he’ll see your enlightenments?

 

 

You could but then you don't have to pile in, OR BETTER you can decide to pie in 0" and witches don't really need to have many models in contact to wipe out a unit of Unglrs. So at the end of the day you might not be able to pile you Enlightened in due to the fact that Witches managed to dash out attacks without getting in range of pile in. So at the end of the day there will be situations like this one and it will be better to just charge and risk one or  maybe two enlightened rather than risk and not attack at all.

 

 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

18 minutes ago, Frozenbeast said:

 

 

You could but then you don't have to pile in, OR BETTER you can decide to pie in 0" and witches don't really need to have many models in contact to wipe out a unit of Unglrs. So at the end of the day you might not be able to pile you Enlightened in due to the fact that Witches managed to dash out attacks without getting in range of pile in. So at the end of the day there will be situations like this one and it will be better to just charge and risk one or  maybe two enlightened rather than risk and not attack at all.

 

 

Like in the battle video, you can charge your Ungors into base to base contact, and just clip the witches with your Enlightened unit, bringing only one Enlightened into 1/2" range. And if the witches are the ones charging, you are always able to position your Enlightened behind the Ungors so that they can pile in against the witches while staying out of range of the witches' attacks.

[Myrdin]

I see. Yeah that actually sounds like a pretty solid strategy. Will try to pull that off this Saturday.

So technically speaking,... could some other big beefy units make us of this ?

Browsing through the pages, Dragon Ogres with War Glaives, could benefit from this.
I was considering Gorghon, but it negates two of its attacks (the Huge Mouth, and the Swallow whole). Unless of course the Ungors get wiped out enough for the Gorghon to pile in from behind.

Its kinda sad, bunch of our big stuff has 1" Range. You would expect Chimera Jabber, and Bullgors to have 2". You know. the big girbbly stuff.

 

On a different note: Has anyone tried out Cockatrice and Preyton ? 

Cockatrice seems good against certain types of armies (Nighthaunt and Stormcast) though its quite unreliable. On the other hand Preyton looks very nice. 140 pts is a bit steep, and it no longer has the -1 to hit debuff for enemies, but D3 mortal wounds on charge, chance to generate more with shooting and combat attacks, and the fact it has no wound chart, has fly, and can pop out anywhere on the battlefield make it an interesting choice. 

Granted there are better options for pure combat, but one or two of these as cheap utility monsters (fast, fairly durable for its pionts and can kill stuff) dont sound that bad.

[The_Yellow_Sign]

48 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

I see. Yeah that actually sounds like a pretty solid strategy. Will try to pull that off this Saturday.

So technically speaking,... could some other big beefy units make us of this ?

Browsing through the pages, Dragon Ogres with War Glaives, could benefit from this.
I was considering Gorghon, but it negates two of its attacks (the Huge Mouth, and the Swallow whole). Unless of course the Ungors get wiped out enough for the Gorghon to pile in from behind.

Its kinda sad, bunch of our big stuff has 1" Range. You would expect Chimera Jabber, and Bullgors to have 2". You know. the big girbbly stuff.

 

On a different note: Has anyone tried out Cockatrice and Preyton ? 

Cockatrice seems good against certain types of armies (Nighthaunt and Stormcast) though its quite unreliable. On the other hand Preyton looks very nice. 140 pts is a bit steep, and it no longer has the -1 to hit debuff for enemies, but D3 mortal wounds on charge, chance to generate more with shooting and combat attacks, and the fact it has no wound chart, has fly, and can pop out anywhere on the battlefield make it an interesting choice. 

Granted there are better options for pure combat, but one or two of these as cheap utility monsters (fast, fairly durable for its pionts and can kill stuff) dont sound that bad.

Ungors have 25mm bases, and 1" is 25.4mm, so you can always attack over the Ungors even if they don't get wiped out. It's a pretty common tactic to have a small unit of chaff in front of a hard-hitting unit like this, but Enlightened are perhaps the best at taking advantage of this because of their rerolls to hit and wound if attacking after an enemy unit.

Edited October 17, 2018 by The_Yellow_Sign

[peasant]

I love chaos warhounds miniatures but I cant figure how to make them work, what uses do you find to them? screening? objective-grabbers?

[The_Yellow_Sign]

1 minute ago, peasant said:

I love chaos warhounds miniatures but I cant figure how to make them work, what uses do you find to them? screening? objective-grabbers?

Yea probably best used as a screen and to grab objectives. They do have a fairly large footprint because of their base size.

[Myrdin]

55 minutes ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

Ungors have 25mm bases, and 1" is 25.4mm, so you can always attack over the Ungors even if they don't get wiped out. It's a pretty common tactic to have a small unit of chaff in front of a hard-hitting unit like this, but Enlightened are perhaps the best at taking advantage of this because of their rerolls to hit and wound if attacking after an enemy unit.

Thank you The_Yellow_Sign. 

Being fairly new to AoS (only 4 games under my belt atm.) tactics like these are fairly new to me and  I am still trying to figure out some of the rules, how they work in general, and how to make use of them to the fullest.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Myrdin

[kenshin620]

6 hours ago, peasant said:

I love chaos warhounds miniatures but I cant figure how to make them work, what uses do you find to them? screening? objective-grabbers?

They make hilarious Anti Ambush units since you can make them hug table edges. So a BoC unit is great against...BoC! (and other ambushing types like legion of night, or have them block deepstrikers)

But as soon as they start to die, be prepared for some nasty battleshock tests! Though I still wished they were battleline since combat wise they're basically worse centigors.

 

 

Also I just found this so sorry if this is technically advertising so I'll be generic as possible but theres a particular maker of resin/metal fantasy miniatures (thats starts with a M) thats having a sale on their beast people miniatures if you use a voucher CURSED-HERD. ?

Edited October 17, 2018 by kenshin620

[peasant]

3 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

They make hilarious Anti Ambush units since you can make them hug table edges. So a BoC unit is great against...BoC! (and other ambushing types like legion of night, or have them block deepstrikers)

But as soon as they start to die, be prepared for some nasty battleshock tests! Though I still wished they were battleline since combat wise they're basically worse centigors.

 

 

Also I just found this so sorry if this is technically advertising so I'll be generic as possible but theres a particular maker of resin/metal fantasy miniatures (thats starts with a M) thats having a sale on their beast people miniatures if you use a voucher CURSED-HERD. ?

Thanks for the advice hehe. Awesome models!