AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Tasman]

6 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Sorry meant Gavriel, the stormcast guy who everybody uses to get plus 6 to the charge.

Once More, For Sigmar, Charge!: If you use this command ability, then until your next hero phase add 3 to charge rolls for friendly Stormcast Eternal units that are within 9" of this model at the start of the charge phase.

Seems pretty obvious that this ability targets multiple UNITS.

[Skreech Verminking]

4 minutes ago, Tasman said:

Once More, For Sigmar, Charge!: If you use this command ability, then until your next hero phase add 3 to charge rolls for friendly Stormcast Eternal units that are within 9" of this model at the start of the charge phase.

Seems pretty obvious that this ability targets multiple UNITS.

Sure, but still isn’t it possible to give a unit plus 2 attacks if you use The commandability twice?

theres nothing stating that it cannot be used twice on the same unit?

edit: at least right now,

Who knows maybe it’ll be changed in 2years or so

Edited October 13, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[Tasman]

1 minute ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Ok so the wording says to pick a friendly gavespawn unit wholly within 12 of a friendly gavespawn chaos spawn.....

so im not sure in which way your discussion went.

Was it that a person cannot use two command points to give a unit plus 2 to the attack characteristic.

or were you arguing that a unit cannot get two attacks when there are 2spawns near the unit for a commandpoint?

well if it is the second one I fully agree with you.

if it is the first one, I’d probably need an explanation.

 

 

 

It's the first application. No real explanation needed. It says "A" unit. I didn't say that it can't be used more than once, on different units using multiple Cps, just that it doesn't stack on the same unit. Believe me, I play this army and under no circumstance would I bring, for instance, a gargant, whipped to fury for +1, with titanic fury,+1, and then 2 or more CPs for what?, 5 head butt attacks?

People can choose to try to play this way if they want, just not in my tournaments.

[Tasman]

5 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Sure, but still isn’t it possible to give a unit plus 2 attacks if you use The commandability twice?

theres nothing stating that it cannot be used twice on the same unit?

edit: at least right now,

Who knows maybe it’ll be changed in 2years or so

For yet another example of how this is not allowed, see the faq for the glottkin in the maggotkin 

[Skreech Verminking]

10 minutes ago, Tasman said:

For yet another example of how this is not allowed, see the faq for the glottkin in the maggotkin 

Do you mean this one?

Edit: I still do not see the restriction.

Edit:but hey if you’ll restrict it as a house rule, sure why not sometimes some extra rules are needed and can be a good thing.

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[Myrdin]

Had a 1500 pts game today against Stormcast Sigmarines.

Won the game and lost only one Ghorgon and half of a Gorebull unit. Winning the initiative for 3 turns straight also helped a lot since he had some ridiculous unit that deal bunch of mortal wounds pretty much for free.

Some highlights: Great weapons on minotaurs are the way to go. You need some buffing though. Doombulls +1 to Wound and a Khorne Battalion that allows you to re-roll 1 to hit, If you can get them those, the unit can cut through 4+ Save 2/3 Wound models, like butter.

Doombull with Brass Cleaver artefact is extremely dangerous. -3 Rend is no joke and you can see the enemy loose color in the face once he smacks his general KO in one turn.

Gors are meh, even when 30. But they make a nice screen and if you keep them away until you can get Herdstone going (turn 3-4) to ignore the battleshock, they can tank. Until then, they dont do much.

Dragon Ogors are not bad. They can take a punch, although offensively they need something else to combo charge with them.... an angry Ghorgon is a good buddy for that

Summon a unit of Enlightened on Discs and tell you opponent what they do.... se him literally Running his wizard that was chilling in the backline towards his other units as fast as he can     

 

Also does anyone else have issues with the comment window ignoring what you type ? Its only on this board, when I am writing and suddenly the Enter doesnt work, keys dont register... And its not the keyboard at fault I made sure of that.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Myrdin

[Pangu]

30 minutes ago, Tasman said:

For yet another example of how this is not allowed, see the faq for the glottkin in the maggotkin 

You are fishing for correlation where none exists. GW doesnt use consistent or specific verbage. The reason your examples dont work is because they all have additional text added via FAQ to limit their use. Untill they FAQ Gavespawn it is spammable.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Pangu
Spelling

[Skreech Verminking]

9 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

Had a 1500 pts game today against Stormcast Sigmarines.

Won the game and lost only one Ghorgon and half of a Gorebull unit. Winning the initiative for 3 turns straight also helped a lot since he had some ridiculous unit that deal bunch of mortal wounds pretty much for free.

Some highlights: Great weapons on minotaurs are the way to go. You need some buffing though. Doombulls +1 to Wound and a Khorne Battalion that allows you to re-roll 1 to hit, If you can get them those, the unit can cut through 4+ Save 2/3 Wound models, like butter.

Doombull with Brass Cleaver artefact is extremely dangerous. -3 Rend is no joke and you can see the enemy loose color in the face once he smacks his general KO in one turn.

Gors are meh, even when 30. But they make a nice screen and if you keep them away until you can get Herdstone going (turn 3-4) to ignore the battleshock, they can tank. Until then, they dont do much.

Dragon Ogors are not bad. They can take a punch, although offensively they need something else to combo charge with them.... an angry Ghorgon is a good buddy for that

Summon a unit of Enlightened on Discs and tell you opponent what they do.... se him literally Running his wizard that was chilling in the backline towards his other units as fast as he can     

 

Also does anyone else have issues with the comment window ignoring what you type ? Its only on this board, when I am writing and suddenly the Enter doesnt work, keys dont register... And its not the keyboard at fault I made sure of that.

Thanks for your report.

just wondering, do you think Gors could be a good unit to tank a lot of attacks?

i just love the fluff and the look of the Gors, and was hoping they could take the spot of ungors as meatshields and tanking heavy unit hitters like blighlords.

 

[Myrdin]

Honestly and sincerely..... No

I also love my Gors, but they are way to weak in this book and are stuck in a position where you either go with slightly more expensive Bestigors who put out much much more threat. Or mass ungor herds which are super cheap and dont matter even if they die by dozens.

Gors are in a bad place and were it not for the battalion restrictions I there is not much reason to bring them. They make for a good screen though since the 32mm bases they have allow for a wide footprint and as such can congo line pretty good as well. For anything else Ungors or other General specific Battle line are your go to guys.

[Skreech Verminking]

18 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

Honestly and sincerely..... No

I also love my Gors, but they are way to weak in this book and are stuck in a position where you either go with slightly more expensive Bestigors who put out much much more threat. Or mass ungor herds which are super cheap and dont matter even if they die by dozens.

Gors are in a bad place and were it not for the battalion restrictions I there is not much reason to bring them. They make for a good screen though since the 32mm bases they have allow for a wide footprint and as such can congo line pretty good as well. For anything else Ungors or other General specific Battle line are your go to guys.

Ok thanks.???

 

[kenshin620]

Maybe its me but I think Gors should be 80pts per 10. Then they'd be the same point value of Greenskin Orruk.

Though I suppose the horde point then would be 60pts per 10, and then a max unit would be 180pts. Not sure if that makes them too inexpensive.

One of their problems is that their additional attack bonus works at 20+ models, on a unit thats 30 max. So you can't really take 20 since at least one guy will die to shooting or magic. Maybe they should have gotten something more like the Beastmen 7th rule where they could get Hatred/Frenzy on a specific roll?

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by kenshin620

[Tasman]

53 minutes ago, Pangu said:

You are fishing for correlation where none exists. GW doesnt use consistent or specific verbage. The reason your examples dont work is because they all have additional text added via FAQ to limit their use. Untill they FAQ Gavespawn it is spammable.

Sure it is....  if you play for advantage only.  Just not in tourneys that I run.

[Myrdin]

25 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Maybe its me but I think Gors should be 80pts per 10. Then they'd be the same point value of Greenskin Orruk.

Though I suppose the horde point then would be 60pts per 10, and then a max unit would be 180pts. Not sure if that makes them too inexpensive.

One of their problems is that their additional attack bonus works at 20+ models, on a unit thats 30 max. So you can't really take 20 since at least one guy will die to shooting or magic. Maybe they should have gotten something more like the Beastmen 7th rule where they could get Hatred/Frenzy on a specific roll?

 

Personally I think they should be 2A each. Thus even the MSU would be worth while, and big units of 30 could still dish out good amount of attacks. They are weak attacks 4+/4+/0/1 so even with big numbers they dont do much, on their own. Thats where magic and hero buffs would have to come into play.

And from fluff standpoint - Bestigors are pretty much just the toughest and meanest of Gors. Their "race" is the same.

Bestigors have armor, and wield huge weapons = 4+ Save and 3+ to Wound -1 Rend. Those 2A dont come from the equipment.

As such I would make Gors as 2A 4+/4+/0/1 as base attack statline, and +1 A if you have 15+ models (exactly of what you said - if you take just 20, all it takes is one guy to die for the special rule effect to drop.). But that is just my wishful thinking here.

This way you can go MSU and still have some minimal threat rating, or go en masse and have a unit that can dish out large amount of normal rating attacks.

*Also Id like to see the paired weapons being the same as Tzaangors +1 to hit, instead of Re-Roll 1s. Would actually make you consider taking those as currently shields are the superior option.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Myrdin

[Pangu]

31 minutes ago, Tasman said:

Sure it is....  if you play for advantage only.  Just not in tourneys that I run.

Using Gavespawn multiple times is within the design and scope of the rule. If it where otherwise they would have faq'd it. You can disagree but that is literally Rules as Written.

To each his own i guess, feel free to house rule your tournaments however you like.

[Skreech Verminking]

57 minutes ago, Tasman said:

Sure it is....  if you play for advantage only.  Just not in tourneys that I run.

Ok sure just remember to make rules which are fair against all armies when you do your own tournament.

it just wouldn’t be fair if some army’s get restricted to do some things in your houserules and others don’t

( pointing on Gavriels commandability.)

 

edit: also on big events and tournaments or also on other smaller ones those rules are mostly always excepted.

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Skreech Verminking

[decker_cky]

7 hours ago, Beliman said:

Looking at the Core Book:

and

So, you chose Beasts of Caos Allegiance unlocking "Battle line if..." Bullgors and build a lists with them (with the battallion that give Khorne marks). After that, you can chose three Allegiance Abilies: GA Caos, Beasts of Caos and Khorne. Taking Khorne abilities doesn't invalidate your list with your battleline bullgors.

Is that right or I misread something?

Q: Some units have the battleline role if they are in an army with allegiance to a specific faction – for example, Judicators are battleline in a Stormcast Eternals army. Say I built an army that could have allegiance to a faction (e.g. Stormcast Eternals), can I use the Grand Alliance allegiance abilities for the army (e.g. Order), while still counting those units as battleline? A: No.

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/age_of_sigmar_core_rules_designers_commentary_Basesizes_en.pdf

Also, the army wouldn't even have beasts of chaos allegiance if you took anything other than beasts of chaos units.

Edited October 13, 2018 by decker_cky

[kenshin620]

Yea I'm not sure about 1.0, but in 2.0 they made it clear that you can't have more than one Allegiance's worth of Command Traits and Items.

Which makes the LoN book really funny since it includes the Death GA...that no one uses. Which is a shame you can't use GA items since Nighthaunt would have liked that summon book which if you're lucky could have gotten you like 200pts "free" (have to waste an artifact I suppose) banshees.

 

The only "odd" one out about Allegiances is ones that LACK a "proper" allegiance (thus can only take GA items and traits) but have access to Firestorm allegiances. It's really muddy since GW themselves have not specified it but RAW the Firestorm allegiances are GA (just with a few restrictions). So in those cases some people seem to agree you can do the BATTLELINE if [Faction] and also gain the effects of the Firestorm thing (but have to abide by both the Firestorm faction restrictions AND the Ally restrictions).

This really only affects Destruction and Order, especially Order. For example choosing Phoenix Temple to have Battleline Phoenix Guard, but using one of the firestorm Free Cities.

Edited October 13, 2018 by kenshin620

[SwampHeart]

2 hours ago, Tasman said:

Sure it is....  if you play for advantage only.  Just not in tourneys that I run.

You don't have a leg to stand on - I can spend 2 CPs to give a single Bestigor unit +2 attacks if in range of 1 spawn. That is RAW, it wasn't FAQ'd - that is how it works. There is no argument other than what you feel the intent is which is irrelevant because I feel the intent of the rules is for Bestigors to have 2 wounds. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by SwampHeart

[Kevlar1972]

57 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

You don't have a leg to stand on - I can spend 2 CPs to give a single Bestigor unit +2 attacks if in range of 1 spawn. That is RAW, it wasn't FAQ'd - that is how it works. There is no argument other than what you feel the intent is which is irrelevant because I feel the intent of the rules is for Bestigors to have 2 wounds. 

Right. That's how games workshop operates.  They will leave an obvious open loophole in the rules even though everything else like that has been faq'ed. People will rush out and buy a ton of bestigors and spawn. 6 months later that loophole will be closed in an updated faq and people will cry the blues and have to jump on the next new bandwagon.

[SwampHeart]

11 minutes ago, Kevlar1972 said:

Right. That's how games workshop operates.  They will leave an obvious open loophole in the rules even though everything else like that has been faq'ed. People will rush out and buy a ton of bestigors and spawn. 6 months later that loophole will be closed in an updated faq and people will cry the blues and have to jump on the next new bandwagon.

That is 100% irrelevant to the current legality of the play.  Also even if they change that Bestigors are still a fantastic unit so I guess you'll have some useless spawn. 

Edited October 13, 2018 by SwampHeart

[Skreech Verminking]

16 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

That is 100% irrelevant to the current legality of the play.  Also even if they change that Bestigors are still a fantastic unit so I guess you'll have some useless spawn. 

Why useless, +1 attack is still fantastic even if you cannot stack it

[SwampHeart]

Just now, Skreech Verminking said:

Why useless, +1 attack is still fantastic even if you cannot stack it

I don't think they're useless, I'm just pointing out that the idea of the old 'bait and switch' doesn't hold up when discussing this. I also just assume most chaos players have weird random spawn collections to begin with from various projects. 

[Pangu]

24 minutes ago, Kevlar1972 said:

Right. That's how games workshop operates.  They will leave an obvious open loophole in the rules even though everything else like that has been faq'ed. People will rush out and buy a ton of bestigors and spawn. 6 months later that loophole will be closed in an updated faq and people will cry the blues and have to jump on the next new bandwagon.

The Gavespawn command ability is fine. Lets look at the Waaagh! which is a spammable command ability that gives +1 attack for EVERY unit within 15". Waaagh! is vastly more powerful and much more accesible  than the Gavespawn ability and yet its not causing Ironjaws to dominate the meta. Given how much more restrictive the Gavespawn command ability is to get online i think we can put the pitchforks down.

[Skreech Verminking]

Yes-yes time to slay-kill

man-things shall die-Die.

(does anybody know how to speak-talk beastmen like?

i only know how to talk and write like a skaven)?

[jkav86]

20 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Yes-yes time to slay-kill

man-things shall die-Die.

(does anybody know how to speak-talk beastmen like?

i only know how to talk and write like a skaven)?

Generally I just grunt, moo and goat bleat at the other player during my games