AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[AverageBoss]

5 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

Well I also meant in terms of models. Galrauch is starting to look dated, and tiny (can't believe back in the day he was on a pretty small base). And they stopped making that FW Chaos Dragon (not the warpfire, the normal 2 headed chaos dragon). Plus the khorne dragon is still TBD. So right now the only way to make chaos dragons is to fit on an extra head on the current dragons.

I actually completely forgot about the FW chaos dragon existing. Man that thing was massive. When did that go OOP?
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Quite awhile ago. It never even got an AoS warscroll, even though several other oop models did.

[Spooksmcgee]

Sup peeps!

 

Coming back to AOS after about a years break and im Returning with the true children!

 

I'm a competitive player so I'm currently going through lists but i can't seem to find one i truly like.

Here's what I'm aiming for atm, cc would be awesome!

Edited October 7, 2018 by Spooksmcgee

[Keith]

Hi all

After my first go was soundly smashed by Nighthaunt , I have tried to improve my list.

I have included a battalion this time , and got my drops down to 4 , I think.

The Beastlord is new with the Dimensional Blade , this could be fun.

The Bray Shaman will turn up near the Ungor Raiders in Ambush with the Brayblast trumpet , and put some hurt on something , hopefully. This seems OK , but really just a one shot go at something. Not really that good ? I dunno.

 

Anyway , here is the list , any suggestions??

The two Shaggoths are up for change , not sure what I would swap them for. But they seem pretty good.

 

Allegiance: Beasts Of Chaos

Mortal Realm: Shyish

 

Leaders

 

Keef Da Beast (90) Beastlord

 

- General

- Trait: Bestial Cunning

- Artefact: Dimensional Blade

 

Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (180)

- Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering Blades

 

Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (180)

- Lore of Dark Storms: Hailstorm

 

Great Bray Shaman (100)

- Artefact: Brayblast Trumpet

- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Wild Rampage

 

Battleline

10 x Gors (80)

- Gor-Blades & Beastshields

10 x Gors (80)

- Gor-Blades & Beastshields

20 x Bestigors (240)

 

Units

40 x Ungor Raiders (320)

6 x Bullgors (320)

- Pairs of Axes

3 x Dragon Ogors (140)

- 3x Draconic War glaives

1 x Tuskgor Chariots (60)

1 x Tuskgor Chariots (60)

 

Battalions

Desolating Beastherd (150)

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 161

 

 

[peasant]

39 minutes ago, Keith said:

Hi all

After my first go was soundly smashed by Nighthaunt , I have tried to improve my list.

I have included a battalion this time , and got my drops down to 4 , I think.

The Beastlord is new with the Dimensional Blade , this could be fun.

The Bray Shaman will turn up near the Ungor Raiders in Ambush with the Brayblast trumpet , and put some hurt on something , hopefully. This seems OK , but really just a one shot go at something. Not really that good ? I dunno.

 

Anyway , here is the list , any suggestions??

The two Shaggoths are up for change , not sure what I would swap them for. But they seem pretty good.

 

Allegiance: Beasts Of Chaos

Mortal Realm: Shyish

 

Leaders

 

Keef Da Beast (90) Beastlord

 

- General

- Trait: Bestial Cunning

- Artefact: Dimensional Blade

 

Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (180)

- Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering Blades

 

Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (180)

- Lore of Dark Storms: Hailstorm

 

Great Bray Shaman (100)

- Artefact: Brayblast Trumpet

- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Wild Rampage

 

Battleline

10 x Gors (80)

- Gor-Blades & Beastshields

10 x Gors (80)

- Gor-Blades & Beastshields

20 x Bestigors (240)

 

Units

40 x Ungor Raiders (320)

6 x Bullgors (320)

- Pairs of Axes

3 x Dragon Ogors (140)

- 3x Draconic War glaives

1 x Tuskgor Chariots (60)

1 x Tuskgor Chariots (60)

 

Battalions

Desolating Beastherd (150)

 

Total: 2000 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 0 / 400

Wounds: 161

 

 

A few suggestions (but none has been tried in tje battlfield):

drop 10 ungor raiders you dont need 40 if you ambush

split bestigors in 2 x10

change one dragon ogor for 2 more beastlords

dont you mind use greatfray gavespawn? you have a lot of heroes and a beastlord with its artifact is awesome

 

[The_Yellow_Sign]

2 minutes ago, peasant said:

A few suggestions (but none has been tried in tje battlfield):

drop 10 ungor raiders you dont need 40 if you ambush

split bestigors in 2 x10

change one dragon ogor for 2 more beastlords

dont you mind use greatfray gavespawn? you have a lot of heroes and a beastlord with its artifact is awesome

 

If he's ambushing with Raiders and wants to get the most out of the Brayblast, I think he should take a max sized unit for more shots. And that way your opponent doesn't need just one kill to remove the rerolling 2's benefit of having 30+.

[Dracothjay]

Question:

Taking the darkwalkers greatfray gives your non-brayherd unit’s the brayherd keyword. Does that mean our warherd/thunderscorn unit’s can benefit from brayherd dedicated spells/abilities or is it solely for ambush and that’s it?

[Keith]

35 minutes ago, peasant said:

A few suggestions (but none has been tried in tje battlfield):

drop 10 ungor raiders you dont need 40 if you ambush

split bestigors in 2 x10

change one dragon ogor for 2 more beastlords

dont you mind use greatfray gavespawn? you have a lot of heroes and a beastlord with its artifact is awesome

 

Ok thanks

I really want the 40 Raiders for the strong hit when they come on. They can cripple and enemy key unit.

Yeah , I was thinking about Gavespawn , but the Dimensional Blade... I dunno , I will have to think about it.

 

[Ajay29]

42 minutes ago, Dracothjay said:

Question:

Taking the darkwalkers greatfray gives your non-brayherd unit’s the brayherd keyword. Does that mean our warherd/thunderscorn unit’s can benefit from brayherd dedicated spells/abilities or is it solely for ambush and that’s it?

It’s just for the purposes of ambush.

3rd and 4th line of “Shadowbeasts”

[peasant]

3 hours ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

If he's ambushing with Raiders and wants to get the most out of the Brayblast, I think he should take a max sized unit for more shots. And that way your opponent doesn't need just one kill to remove the rerolling 2's benefit of having 30+.

you are right!

[SwampHeart]

Figured I'd report in on my weekend event - played in a small local tournament (12 people). Went 3-0 and took first place. My opponents were SCE (newer player with mostly what comes in various starter boxes), Idoneth (eel ambush, pretty savvy player but new to the army) and DoK (the other guy in our shop who regularly competes with me).  The scenarios were (in the same order as opponents) Shifting Objectives, Gift from the Heavens, and Scorched Earth. Had a lot of fun pushing the beasts around the table. 

My list for the weekend  was:

Gavespawn, Ghur
-Beastlord - General (Unraveling Aura), Mutating Gnarlblade
-Shaman - Vicious Stranglethorns
-Tzaangor Shaman - Tendrils of Atrophy, Gryphfeather Charm
-30x Gors - Shields
-20x Bestigors
-20x Tzaangors - 8 Great Blades, 4 Mutants, 2 Shields
-6x Tzaangor Enlightened (on foot)
-10x Ungors
-5x Centigors
Phantasmagoria of Fate
-Chimera
-Geminids of Uhl-Ghysh

[jkav86]

5 hours ago, Keith said:

Ok thanks

I really want the 40 Raiders for the strong hit when they come on. They can cripple and enemy key unit.

Yeah , I was thinking about Gavespawn , but the Dimensional Blade... I dunno , I will have to think about it.

 

Keep in mind 40 raiders has a not insignificant  footprint, you may find it hard getting a good spot for them to come in. In my last game I could not deploy any ambush units in enemy territory because the other guy played to deny me that.

The game I did get to put my raiders somewhere good, it barely fit the 10 man unit. However they did their job, killed a cannon with shooting, tied up a second with a charge.

[merzbau]

Here’s a bit of a silly modeling question- how are folks keeping their Bestigors securely based? I’ve started on mine and found that, much like Chaos Spawn or the Daemon Prince model, their feet just aren’t flat at all. At least with those models the feet are large enough (and few enough!) that they’re an easy pin,, combined with just tilting the model forwards or backwards to get one foot flat (Spawn) or putting something under the raised foot (DP), but Bestigors are all standing on the inside rim of their hooves and it’s driving me nuts. Little blobs of green stuff + super glue?

[kenshin620]

13 minutes ago, jkav86 said:

Keep in mind 40 raiders has a not insignificant  footprint, you may find it hard getting a good spot for them to come in. In my last game I could not deploy any ambush units in enemy territory because the other guy played to deny me that.

The game I did get to put my raiders somewhere good, it barely fit the 10 man unit. However they did their job, killed a cannon with shooting, tied up a second with a charge.

Yea thats the thing to keep in mind, people will try to either deny or limit your ambush positions. Especially if you're running Desolation battalion with huge ungor units.

 

[Ruebe]

3 hours ago, SwampHeart said:

Figured I'd report in on my weekend event - played in a small local tournament (12 people). Went 3-0 and took first place. My opponents were SCE (newer player with mostly what comes in various starter boxes), Idoneth (eel ambush, pretty savvy player but new to the army) and DoK (the other guy in our shop who regularly competes with me).  The scenarios were (in the same order as opponents) Shifting Objectives, Gift from the Heavens, and Scorched Earth. Had a lot of fun pushing the beasts around the table. 

My list for the weekend  was:

Gavespawn, Ghur
-Beastlord - General (Unraveling Aura), Mutating Gnarlblade
-Shaman - Vicious Stranglethorns
-Tzaangor Shaman - Tendrils of Atrophy, Gryphfeather Charm
-30x Gors - Shields
-20x Bestigors
-20x Tzaangors - 8 Great Blades, 4 Mutants, 2 Shields
-6x Tzaangor Enlightened (on foot)
-10x Ungors
-5x Centigors
Phantasmagoria of Fate
-Chimera
-Geminids of Uhl-Ghysh

What units do you think performed best?  

[SwampHeart]

53 minutes ago, Ruebe said:

 

What units do you think performed best?  

The Centigors were all stars for sure - their mobility makes them an excellent toolbox style unit. The Chimera was also pivotal, he's a very effective character sniper and dives well on other monsters, small hammers, and similar units. He was actually the key in my game against DoK because I was able to put 3 wounds on Morathi out of the gate which severely hampered her and then he dived onto the Cauldron and managed to do 10 wounds before he was killed in return. Overall I didn't have a unit that I thought didn't fit though I may swap the Bestigors to 2 10s instead of 1 20. 

[Urauloth]

4 hours ago, merzbau said:

Here’s a bit of a silly modeling question- how are folks keeping their Bestigors securely based? I’ve started on mine and found that, much like Chaos Spawn or the Daemon Prince model, their feet just aren’t flat at all. At least with those models the feet are large enough (and few enough!) that they’re an easy pin,, combined with just tilting the model forwards or backwards to get one foot flat (Spawn) or putting something under the raised foot (DP), but Bestigors are all standing on the inside rim of their hooves and it’s driving me nuts. Little blobs of green stuff + super glue?

You should get a strong enough bond with a good plastic glue anyway, assuming you're sticking them to plastic bases, but if you need to strengthen it, the best solution is a small piece of thin plasticard. You can cut little spacers out of that to prop the hooves up, and it bonds with the same glue. If you're sticking them to cork o something that requires superglue you're understandably having a worse time, but this might still work for increasing the surface area of the hoof before attaching the mini to the base.

[Reezark_SP]

Hello everyone I picked up the BoC book over the weekend. I gotta say its a really neat army and the new fluff is really cool. I may have to start collecting Beastmen soon when the models become available again. Love the color scheme of the Darkwalkers and that greatfray's abilities happen to be really cool also. I think being able to "deepstrike" so many units also pairs really good with the Desolating Beasherd battalion which looks really fun to run. This is my first take on the army I'd like to run. What are your thoughts?

Greatbray: Darkwalkers

Doombull
General
Cleaver of the Brass Bull
Nomadic Leader

Great Bray Shaman
Desolate Shard
Tendrils of Atrophy

Battleline:
Bullgors x3 

Bullgors x6

Ungors x10

Ungors x10

Gors x30

Other:
Ghorgon

Cygor

Bestigors x20

Cockatrice

Endless Spell:
Wildfire Taurus

Battalion
Desolating Beastheard.

Everything except the Cygor, and Cockatrice are in the battalion so its a 3 drop, 2 Artifact, +1 command point at the start army.
 

[Myrdin]

Hey guys !

Old time Beastmen fan and player, fairly new to AoS (started actively participating in AoS once this lovely Beast of Chaos battle tome was announced).

I searched for a board with a live BoC community and this one seems promising.

As such I would like to pose a question to you fellow Beastlord, Shamans and Doombulls

 

How does deployment work, if you run a Darkwalkers army with Desolating Beastherd ?

Our rules for Ambush say you need to have 1 unit for each unit that is being ambushed. At the same time the rules for deploying Battalions state you always deploy the whole battalion at the same time.

So... if I want to deploy this battalion via Ambush, I need the exact same number of models on the table ? I cant use some of the units from this battalion to cover for the 1 for 1 rule ? .... Also.... with Darkwalkers specifically, you can deploy half of your Ambushing force on the 2 turn instead of the first one.... That also goes against the rules for a battalion deployment.

I am quite confused about this, because the whole point of Desolating Brayherd is to get your battalion into your opponents side of the table to get the benefit from it, but with the 1 for 1 deployment rule thats extremely hard to do, unless you run mass MSU list. 

Can anyone maybe shine a little light on this ? I tried the same thing with Brass Despolers, which is easy to do due to its low unit count (though you still cant come out on the 2nd turn if you run a battalion since you would have to split it for deployment.) and you can get enough other units to fill in on the table for the 1 for 1 Ambush rule.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Myrdin

[SirPug]

How do dragon ogors and bullgors compare damage wise? 

Currently Dragon ogors are cheaper, faster and more durable and sliglty more accurate. Against rend ignoring things im sure they straight out win bullgors.

[SwampHeart]

2 hours ago, Myrdin said:

At the same time the rules for deploying Battalions state you always deploy the whole battalion at the same time.

This isn't quite right it actually says 'During set up you can set up some or all units from a Warscroll Battalion at the same time rather than setting up each unit individually' so you can place half of the units from your desolating brayherd in ambush and the other half on the table to meet the ambush requirements.  Now if you did want to deploy the entire Battalion (every individual unit) in Ambush you would need an equal number of units to deploy on the table. 

[decker_cky]

3 hours ago, SirPug said:

How do dragon ogors and bullgors compare damage wise? 

Currently Dragon ogors are cheaper, faster and more durable and sliglty more accurate. Against rend ignoring things im sure they straight out win bullgors.

Against things with no save, AHW bullgors cause slightly more damage than AHW dragon ogres, and GW bullgors cause the same amount of damage as AHW dragon ogres (AHW dragon ogres, along with draconic crusher dragon ogres, cause the most damage). 

Against things you are much more likely to see in the real world, bullgors cause much more damage. For example, against a 4+ save unit, a bullgors with GW causes 2.58 wounds per turn average, while the dragon ogre causes 1.58 wounds per turn. 

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by decker_cky

[Frozenbeast]

10 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Hey guys !

Old time Beastmen fan and player, fairly new to AoS (started actively participating in AoS once this lovely Beast of Chaos battle tome was announced).

I searched for a board with a live BoC community and this one seems promising.

As such I would like to pose a question to you fellow Beastlord, Shamans and Doombulls

 

How does deployment work, if you run a Darkwalkers army with Desolating Beastherd ?

Our rules for Ambush say you need to have 1 unit for each unit that is being ambushed. At the same time the rules for deploying Battalions state you always deploy the whole battalion at the same time.

So... if I want to deploy this battalion via Ambush, I need the exact same number of models on the table ? I cant use some of the units from this battalion to cover for the 1 for 1 rule ? .... Also.... with Darkwalkers specifically, you can deploy half of your Ambushing force on the 2 turn instead of the first one.... That also goes against the rules for a battalion deployment.

I am quite confused about this, because the whole point of Desolating Brayherd is to get your battalion into your opponents side of the table to get the benefit from it, but with the 1 for 1 deployment rule thats extremely hard to do, unless you run mass MSU list. 

Can anyone maybe shine a little light on this ? I tried the same thing with Brass Despolers, which is easy to do due to its low unit count (though you still cant come out on the 2nd turn if you run a battalion since you would have to split it for deployment.) and you can get enough other units to fill in on the table for the 1 for 1 Ambush rule.

 

Welcome back to the herd fellow horned man. I hope your next battles will bring you glory!

So let's develop one thought at a time: Darkwalkers is a Greafrey and as the other two is an optional Keyword you add to your army that provides you with a set of powerful rules at the cost of binding ou to certain pick when it comes to traits and sartifacts. Let's consider Darkwalkers: the trait for this Greatfrey tells you that you treat Warherd (Doombulls, Bullgors, etc...) and Thunderscorn (Shaggoth and Dragonogors) as having the Brayherd keyword for the purpos of ambush. What does this mean though? It means that you can ambush your bullgors and dragonogors like the little goats do following  the rules the little goats follow; so you can deploy them NOT on the table but you have to have at least the same amount of BEAST OF CHAOS units deployed on the table. In addition you can set up up to half of your ambushers (that now include Warherd and Thuderscorn) in the second battle round instead of having to do it in the first for all your units.

Now to the second thought: Desolating Beastherd and battalions. Battalions can be deployed in different ways: you can either deploy all the units at once or do it one unit at a time or deploy some unit individually and the rest all at once. How do you deploy a units? You can either drop it on the board or leave it in reserve. To leave a unit in reserve when deployng your army count as that unit being deployed so as long as you declare which unit is being deployed and which one is kept in reserve (aka Ambush) you can drop them all at once or one by one.

Now let's have an example mixing the two thoughts: you have 7 units of Beast of Chaos in a Desolating  Beastherd and they belong to the Darkkwalkers greatfrey. You can ambush up to 3 units (as you have to have at least the same amount of units on the board) but you decide you wanna ambush only 2. During deployment, what you can do, is either decide to drop everything at the same time so 5 units on the board and 2 Ambushing (declaring which ones); deploy 1 by 1 declaring, when you deploy them, which one is Ambushing and which one you actually drop on the board; or drop one unit, then your opponent drops one, then you decide you wanna drop everything else (declaring which one are ambushing and deploying the rest). The battle starts. You have priority and decide to give your opponent the first turn. In you first turn you have to set up your ambushers. Although Darkwalkers makes you choose to leave half of your ambushers (in this case 1 unit out of 2 you have in ambush) and bring them in in your second turn. And you decide to do that; so you set up 1 of those units you left in ambush wholly within 6" on any table edge and more than 9" away from any enemy unit. The first round ends, our opponent wins priority and he decided you can play first. At this point you have to bring in the last unit you left in ambush in the same way you deployed the first one in the last turn. All this applys alongside all battalion own rules, so if you decide to set up your ambushers in your enemy territory, of course they will get the bonus that the battalion grants them.

I know this is a lot of explanation and I could not think of a shorter way to do it whitout being ambiguous and confusing. I hope this helps but I encourage you to go read carefully all the rules you have mentioned one by one startig with how you deploy units on the field at the start of the battle and going up to the specific ones from the book as all of these rules overlap each other and none of them exclude the other. Make sure you understand the basics before you apply the advanced rules.

Anyway hope I was helpful and you can wrap your head around this dilemma.

 

Cheers

[Tasman]

Well said^^^

[Myrdin]

Thanks both of you for the reply !

Yeah I think I got the gist of it. My idea was to drop the whole battalion at the same time, in order to have less deployment then my opponent and as such get the +1 for the roll off, but I suppose that is not really feasible with army such as BoC as we just have the option to bring so much stuff that it would be more of a detriment than a boon, not to do so.

I guess I should give the rules a proper read through to solidify the rules I have learnt so far.

The way I learned the rules (not all of them of course) I joined a local mini tournament where we went 3 games one after another. A sink or swim situation you could say. Thankfully AoS 2 rules are so much easier than the old Warhammer Fantasy, or 9th Age, that I managed to and I really like the way combat is resolved. No more unit Initiative, but one roll for the players.

The way I  got into AoS, well I was interested before, because daaamn those DoK Melusai and Khirenai are some nice beastmen themed miniatures and at first I just wanted some of those for the collection, but then got interested in the game as well.  Begun collecting them to get a 2K points DoK army.... but then I found out the Beastmen are gonna get reworked as the "Beast of Chaos" and I was instantly hooked.

But I digress, sorry  

Edited October 10, 2018 by Myrdin

[Kevlar1972]

On 10/6/2018 at 9:45 PM, kenshin620 said:

Well I also meant in terms of models. Galrauch is starting to look dated, and tiny (can't believe back in the day he was on a pretty small base). And they stopped making that FW Chaos Dragon (not the warpfire, the normal 2 headed chaos dragon). Plus the khorne dragon is still TBD. So right now the only way to make chaos dragons is to fit on an extra head on the current dragons.

I actually completely forgot about the FW chaos dragon existing. Man that thing was massive. When did that go OOP?
 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Well Dorgar seems to have morphed into a chaos dragon.  That compendium dragon looks terrible.  340 points for a 10 wound monster with a degrading profile?  I'd stick to the warpfire dragon!