AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[The_Yellow_Sign]

8 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Thanks for the concrete and fair use of arguments ?It still deals d3 mortal wounds per wound allocated... but hey it's ruined!!! or ruined... maybe..  meh pass.. its the same thing.

It's actually 1 MW per wound allocated on a 4+ now.

[kenshin620]

Random question, I am tempted to get the Limited Edition (yea yea its mostly a marketing scheme to squeeze more money). Is it Online Store only or can I pre order it from a GW store?

[Emicus]

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NZ/searchResults?N=737771287+3891937086

 

Pre-orders are up in NZ

[Double Misfire]

Beasts of Chaos mega review from the nice people at War of Sigmar:

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/3268

 

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

edit:

seems ungors aren’t currently battle line..

well there went my small army idea lol

Edited September 14, 2018 by Mandzak-Miniatures

[Oldshrimpeyes]

Amidst all this goodness it pains me to moan but...Please stop, GW. Tzaangor Skyfires have had quite the beating already. 

[Arkiham]

1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Thanks for the concrete and fair use of arguments ?It still deals d3 mortal wounds per wound allocated... but hey it's ruined!!! or ruined... maybe..  meh pass.. its the same thing.

it doesnt. it now deals 1 mortal wound on a 4+. 

[Ajay29]

Hot damn, really appreciating the Chimera that’s on its way in the post right now!

Did the ghorgon keep its old bite attack as well as gaining the “eat a dude of your choosing”?

[Charlo]

6 minutes ago, Ajay29 said:

Hot damn, really appreciating the Chimera that’s on its way in the post right now!

Did the ghorgon keep its old bite attack as well as gaining the “eat a dude of your choosing”?

YES!

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-ghorgon-en.pdf

[kenshin620]

7 minutes ago, Ajay29 said:

Hot damn, really appreciating the Chimera that’s on its way in the post right now!

Did the ghorgon keep its old bite attack as well as gaining the “eat a dude of your choosing”?

He still bites.

 

21 minutes ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

So did I miss something, ungors are not battle line? They are just extra things you could take but don’t count towards min?

Apparently according to an early viewer, ungor raiders aren't battleline. Though if you're running BoC you probably are going to have plenty of battleline already. Especially Best - Gors.

 

Actually am I the only one whos worried that Gors are in a weird spot?

Bestigors seem the "go to" frontline battleline for brayherds while ungors are your 40 man chaff. Where do Gors fit in?

Edited September 14, 2018 by kenshin620

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

6 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

He still bites.

 

Apparently according to an early viewer, ungor raiders aren't battleline. Though if you're running BoC you probably are going to have plenty of battleline already. Especially Best - Gors.

 

Actually am I the only one whos worried that Gors are in a weird spot?

Bestigors seem the "go to" frontline battleline for brayherds while ungors are your 40 man chaff. Where do Gors fit in?

That’s why I was hoping for ungors and Gors as BL and bestigors filling a more elite slot.

looks like my small swamp themed beast army won’t be a thing lol

Edited September 14, 2018 by Mandzak-Miniatures

[Ajay29]

14 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

 

 

Actually am I the only one whos worried that Gors are in a weird spot?

Bestigors seem the "go to" frontline battleline for brayherds while ungors are your 40 man chaff. Where do Gors fit in?

Bestigors for running up and beating the snot out of things, couple of small units of ungor for sacrificing, big unit of gor for holding the herdstone area, being immune to battleshock and taking advantage of the rend?

Thats my thoughts, just based on what I own anyway...

[decker_cky]

Ungors are still super useful because they're cheap and their bases are under 1", meaning you can use them to screen and allow a counter-pile from safety against most targets (2+" melee is relatively rare).  Useful for screening, holding objectives, and sacrificing. 

Gors are still a cheap battleline at 80 pts, but definitely have a bit of an identity crisis. I think if you need gors as your 3rd battleline, it will be worth taking 30 for 210 as a cheap flexible unit. It'll be interesting to see the battlions - remember that the khorne battalion doesn't allow ungors. Maybe ungors are excluded from battalions making gors a de facto choice in a lot of cases. 

I'm psyched for Gavespawn, but then again....I may have 20+ spawn models.  Gavespawn gives a strong trait, a strong command ability and a strong magic item. Anyone know if Morghur will balance on a 32mm base? Because beastlord with the gavespawn weapon will be killer!

If bestigors really are still 120/300, then they're one of the best value units in the game.

Would like to see details of the battalion compositions/rules, as they're a bit sparse and will really dictate the synergies we can't see yet. 

[The Darkest Soul]

- Allherd sounds very underwhelming compared to the other two Greatfrays, really interested to know more about the Darkwalkers teleport command ability., but putting the Gavespawn artefact on a Doombull sounds mighty tempting!

- Chimera and Ghorgon seem like the go to monsters.

- Ungors not being battleline is a bit of a headscratcher I expect that to be changed rather quick.

- Taurus sounds great provide it is reasonably priced (80 points or less is fair IMO), the dirgehorn sounds good on paper also, but really needs a few turns to be effective.

[The_Yellow_Sign]

In the https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/3268 they mention 4 attacks per Bestigor when charging. Any idea where those numbers are coming from?

[Pangu]

6 minutes ago, The Darkest Soul said:

- Allherd sounds very underwhelming compared to the other two Greatfrays, really interested to know more about the Darkwalkers teleport command ability., but putting the Gavespawn artefact on a Doombull sounds mighty tempting!

- Chimera and Ghorgon seem like the go to monsters.

- Ungors not being battleline is a bit of a headscratcher I expect that to be changed rather quick.

- Taurus sounds great provide it is reasonably priced (80 points or less is fair IMO), the dirgehorn sounds good on paper also, but really needs a few turns to be effective.

I dont know about Gavespawn, the ability sounds so situational unless you intend to run either a bunch of suicide beastlords  or actual spawn. Either way its a large tax just to be able to use the command ability/trait. 

I believe ungors are still battleline, its just the ungor raiders who lost it.

Taurus is 100pts,  Dirgehorn is 40 or less pts.

 

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Arkiham said:

it doesnt. it now deals 1 mortal wound on a 4+. 

Oké fair enoughthats not as good as it was. Still so much worse compared to the improvements?  Still regardless of potential other changes, support or points now ruined? 

21 minutes ago, The Darkest Soul said:

-- Ungors not being battleline is a bit of a headscratcher I expect that to be changed rather quick

I would guess gw wants to make it a bit  more of a choice to include the kindle wood ehhh ungors. ?

if your source of summoning points also helps you meet the battle line criteria, it might be too auto include. 

That would be my guess anyway. 

[Pangu]

10 minutes ago, The_Yellow_Sign said:

In the https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/3268 they mention 4 attacks per Bestigor when charging. Any idea where those numbers are coming from?

Hes refering to the brayblast trumpet command trait which gives an extra attack if you charge the turn you ambush.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Pangu

[The_Yellow_Sign]

2 minutes ago, Pangu said:

Hes refering to the brayblast trumpet command trait which gives an extra attack if you charge the then turn you ambush.

Brayblast Trumpet adds +1 to hit though.

 

[decker_cky]

Gavespawn command ability would give a 4th attack to bestigors, while brayblast trumpet boosts to 2+ to hit.

[The_Yellow_Sign]

3 minutes ago, decker_cky said:

Gavespawn command ability would give a 4th attack to bestigors, while brayblast trumpet boosts to 2+ to hit.

Nice! Do you happen to know if the command ability can be used in the combat phase?

[Hulksmash]

Centigor are looking amazing in the Khorne Battalion in a Blades of Khorne army. Honestly that's my first inclination using the battalion to basically fill out everything for the army outside of 4 Khorne Characters.

But for an actual BoC army I can see something along these lines;

2x30 Bestigor

30 Gor

2x10 Ungor

Shaman

Beastlord

Shaggoth

2x10 Centigor

And then tinker with the last 400pts.

[decker_cky]

I had done bullgor calculations before an missed reroll 1's for AHW. This shifts the math significantly. My calculations are below:

AHW	3+	4+	5+	6+
Base attacks	1	1.333333	1.666667	2
Reroll 1's	0.166666667	0.222222	0.277778	0.333333
Horns	0.166666667	0.25	0.333333	0.416667
Bloodgreed	0.416666667	0.416667	0.416667	0.416667
Reroll 1's	0.041666667	0.041667	0.041667	0.041667
	1.791666667	2.263889	2.736111	3.208333
3 bullgors	5.375	6.791667	8.208333	9.625
champ bonus attack	0.388888889	0.518519	0.648148	0.777778
Total	5.763888889	7.310185	8.856481	10.40278

 

GW	3+	4+	5+	6+
Base attacks	1.333333	1.666667	2	2
Horns	0.166667	0.25	0.333333	0.416667
Bloodgreed	0.333333	0.333333	0.333333	0.333333
	1.833333	2.25	2.666667	2.75
3 bullgors	5.5	6.75	8	8.25
champ bonus attack	0.444444	0.555556	0.666667	0.666667
Total	5.944444	7.305556	8.666667	8.916667

 

Shield	3+	4+	5+	6+
Base attacks	1	1.333333	1.666667	2
Horns	0.166667	0.25	0.333333	0.416667
Bloodgreed	0.416667	0.416667	0.416667	0.416667
	1.583333	2	2.416667	2.833333
3 bullgors	4.75	6	7.25	8.5
champ bonus attack	0.333333	0.444444	0.555556	0.666667
Total	5.083333	6.444444	7.805556	9.166667

 

 

In short, shield is obviously the worst option for offensive output. GW vs AHW has GW better vs 3+ save, a draw vs  4+ save, and AHW is marginally better vs  5+ save and much better vs any save it can negate. When rerolls are factored in, more rend is better.

In short, GW seems to have done a great job balancing the offensive output between AHW and GW bullgors.

[Malakithe]

Real talk time. While its cool GW included Tzaangors im wondering what their roles are. With the nerfs and high points costs I dont see them being useful at all compared to their goat kin.

Maybe Enlightened due to speed. Skyfires are a big no, Shaman is a maybe-no, and Tzaangors are now worse then Bestigors

[AverageBoss]

Ya, I really don't get it. At least they get access to extra rending, attacks, and ambush in BoC. And they are still more than twice as durable as Bestigors. Maybe GW thought they would be too good with their native rules, plus all the new stuff. Leaves them in an awful place for DoT though.