AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

On 11/21/2022 at 3:03 PM, Myrdin said:

I am anxious to see how the book turned out.

If a competent person got to write it (please be the one who did Ogres...) we can be in for a treat. Coz the herdstone WD buff was nice and all, but I want better units, better army synergy, some new multi kits (Gors and Centigors with throwing weapons for example). Anything to make the army flow better. But not once in my 12 years with Beastmen have I seen that. The current book was "ok" but got guickly out performed by the later releases.

We`ll see if its gonna bejust a copy pasta with new pictures and cover art when we look at the Dragon Ogors and whether those have been updated to be in line with the current Ogor stat line (so minimum dmg 2 on their weapon profiles).

New model for Shaggoth with updated profile is well over due by this point as well.

Wishful thinking but it would be nice if they re introduced Kolek Sun Eater to BoC. New, big beefy model with a greater deamon like profile.

As long as it isn’t the skaven book writer, everything should be fine.

that guy did a terrible job

[Dolomedes]

18 hours ago, The Red King said:

Hah yeah. I'm worried all these metawatch articles will make them decide the beasts need to be nerfed in their new book which would make me very sad.

 

That said I do have 10 centigor lovingly converted and they're already in my list. I could try them that way and reduce my drops but I play so few games I don't think I'll be able to give as good an idea of their effectiveness as you. 

I've been doing a bit of Math Hammer in the last 2 days and I thought I'd check out the 10 man Centigor unit. I've added re-rolls to wound on the spears, the rend -1 from the Herdstone and +1 to hit from being drunk. Due to coherency rules I've only added 6 sets of hoof attacks. This should be fairly easy to achieve. Here's the results:

In terms of average damage output they aren't very far away from 10 Bestigors on the charge. Obviously you'd be sending these into something squishy. If you can get more than 6 models to deliver their hoof attacks then they'll out damage 10 Bestigors. If these get into some Galletian Vets as Bounty Hunters (should be easy), then it's goodnight. As they've got 2 weapon profiles they're a good contender for the +1 attack from a Chaos Spawn, or Sundering Blades.

Hopefully I'll get a game in tonight. 

[The Red King]

4 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

I've been doing a bit of Math Hammer in the last 2 days and I thought I'd check out the 10 man Centigor unit. I've added re-rolls to wound on the spears, the rend -1 from the Herdstone and +1 to hit from being drunk. Due to coherency rules I've only added 6 sets of hoof attacks. This should be fairly easy to achieve. Here's the results:

In terms of average damage output they aren't very far away from 10 Bestigors on the charge. Obviously you'd be sending these into something squishy. If you can get more than 6 models to deliver their hoof attacks then they'll out damage 10 Bestigors. If these get into some Galletian Vets as Bounty Hunters (should be easy), then it's goodnight. As they've got 2 weapon profiles they're a good contender for the +1 attack from a Chaos Spawn, or Sundering Blades.

Hopefully I'll get a game in tonight. 

My problem with that is that 10 bestigor are cheaper than 10 centigor while also being marginally more durable, though admittedly not nearly as mobile.

Bestigor can be battleline as well (blessing and a curse of course) and against gally vets deal an absolute truck load of damage.

[Dolomedes]

Got a game in on Friday with the above mentioned list. I got the double out of turn 1 and tabled my opponent.

Here's a rough batrep!

 Opponent was Hedonites of Slaanesh, battleplan was silk steel nests.

I deployed 2 units of Bestigors, the Beastlord and a Bray Shaman off the board, as planned, so I could get a good setup and that bonus point from the battle tactic. Opponent set his archers in a line, using them as screens for his leaders. The hellstriders screened the front of the archers, and the Soulgrinder was put on the right (my right) flank. I deployed back a few inches from my line so I could goad him into moving out of his deployment zone and break up his line. Herdstone was in the centre, with a Shaggoth, the Bray Shaman general, the Bullgors, 10 Bestigors and the 10 man Centigor unit screening. I deployed a unit of Dragon Ogres on each flank. I put my other Shaggoth on the right flank to buff my Dragon Ogres with the intention of killing his Soulgrinder.

I told my opponent how fast everything was, especially the Centigors. He panicked and took the first turn, because he didn't want to get boxed in. The 2 units of hellstriders moved up - both were 3" from my Dragon Ogres. He wanted to screen them out. Rather unexpectedly, he moved the block of Daemonettes up too and charged my centre, where the Centigors were screening. His rationale was that the Centigors were going to fight the Daemonettes at some point, so he'd rather get it done without me activating charge buffs. He pulled in the Bullgors and the Bestigors as well on the charge. He killed off 3 centigors, but they swung back and killed 14. Everything was in herdstone range so I didn't lose much to BS.

On my turn, I ambushed his back line, charged the Dragon Ogres, killed the Soulgrinder, all screens, and finished off the 30 man Daemonette blob. I summoned a Chaos Spawn on my backline to give the Dragon Ogres additional attacks going into the Soulgrinder. I got 6 points.

I won priority and chose to go for the double because I figured I could table him. The 2 units of Bestigors charged Sigvald and killed him, the Gnarlblade Beastlord went mental and 1 shotted the Keeper of Secrets, Dragon Ogres went into all the archers with Centigors and Bullgors and cleaned up. The strategy worked well - get the opponent panicking from the start and just be ruthlessly aggressive. Use the ambush to set up a double envelopment.

On 11/25/2022 at 7:10 PM, The Red King said:

My problem with that is that 10 bestigor are cheaper than 10 centigor while also being marginally more durable, though admittedly not nearly as mobile.

Bestigor can be battleline as well (blessing and a curse of course) and against gally vets deal an absolute truck load of damage.

Probably confirmation bias on my part here, but I think the 10 Centigors played a big part in getting the easy win. Not only did they screen out the squishy stuff (Bullgors, Great Bray Shaman, Herdstone) but they also did some heavy lifting in combat. Saying 'This 10 man cavalry unit has a 35" threat range and it's BH' made my opponent panic and throw all his screens forward to pin them, right into my centre. It broke up his line which meant I could out manoeuvre him. They did alright in combat too. Looking forward to going up against a tougher army soon.   

[Popisdead]

On 11/29/2022 at 7:07 AM, Dolomedes said:

Got a game in on Friday with the above mentioned list. I got the double out of turn 1 and tabled my opponent.

Probably confirmation bias on my part here, but I think the 10 Centigors played a big part in getting the easy win. 

Very nice work.  Confirmation bias is the first test of many and it could work or could not work.  That's why we play games with our lists.

I've always thought it was dumb people would argue against what's working for someone else.  I love that you are championing 10-man Centigor units.  I own 20 and love the models, they are fun to paint and before I'm accosted for $$$ they were like $25 on eBay pre-AoS when eBay proved to GW they could really gouge the old-hammer folks. 

Back in the Herdstone days of 8th ed one guy figured out the Ramhorn, Ghorros, Centigor and Minobus list and the stalwart defenders of 40 Gors 40 Bestigors refused to do anything but argue they were wrong every time it came up.  

We are here to find things that work and share them.  People who come on these threads to argue "um no" or "that doesn't work" are the people who ruin forums.  

 

What is the second Shaggoth doing in your list?

Edited November 30, 2022 by Popisdead

[Dolomedes]

16 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Very nice work.  Confirmation bias is the first test of many and it could work or could not work.  That's why we play games with our lists.

I've always thought it was dumb people would argue against what's working for someone else.  I love that you are championing 10-man Centigor units.  I own 20 and love the models, they are fun to paint and before I'm accosted for $$$ they were like $25 on eBay pre-AoS when eBay proved to GW they could really gouge the old-hammer folks. 

Back in the Herdstone days of 8th ed one guy figured out the Ramhorn, Ghorros, Centigor and Minobus list and the stalwart defenders of 40 Gors 40 Bestigors refused to do anything but argue they were wrong every time it came up.  

We are here to find things that work and share them.  People who come on these threads to argue "um no" or "that doesn't work" are the people who ruin forums.  

 

What is the second Shaggoth doing in your list?

Ta! Got another game tomorrow night against a nasty Skaven list that beat me last time, but only by a single point. It should be a good test of how much extra welly my list has with 12 Dragon Ogres in it.

I love Centigors too, got 20! I bought my first 5 on my first trip to Warhammer World, and the other 15 were a gift from someone who used to run the Ghorros Centigor list in 8th (they're metal and everything). I think having a big stack of Centigors is the hallmark of a true Beastmen player - you've either forked out megabucks for them for the sheer love of the Beastmen model range, or you've been playing them so long that you got them in blister packs back in the day. Either way, you're committed.

I remember those debates - 8th ed was a strange time for us. The two-weapon 40+ Gor block with strength BSB was an alright unit, but you're pretty much always relying on rolling hot, because every other army had way better infantry. I distinctly remember an interview with the guy who was running a Minobus Centigor list after he won a fairly major tournament. It was a massive deal that someone won a tournament with Beastmen, and the way he did it was by trying out completely off meta units. Nobody knew how to deal with it. Ever since then, my mindset has always been 'what can I do with this crappy chaff unit to make it slap'. Years of playing Beasts has taught me that the way to win with them is to play well but also have some sort of trump card chaff play.

So one Shaggoth stays at the Herdstone - the one with Hailstorm. He's the Herdstone protector and generates summoning points by cutting himself and Primordial Roar, which he heals back up. The second Shaggoth has Sundering Blades and Horn of the Tempest - he's there to give Dragon Ogres Run and Charge, additional rend, re-roll 1s to hit, and Monstrous Rampages. In short, one Shaggoth is for offense, the other is for defence.

[Maddpainting]

On 11/19/2022 at 11:50 AM, Sinfullyvannila said:

That's operator error. The whole point of their shooting attack was too blow up heroes with mortal wounds.

Well most heroes I fight are 3+ saves with high wounds and many can even heal.... so no? Bc trying to roll "6's" with 8 dice, cool you got 1 6 for average of 2D, thats not really reliable at all. 380pts and a CP to maybe kill a 140pts support hero is not what I call ideal. 

[Sinfullyvannila]

On 12/3/2022 at 5:47 PM, Maddpainting said:

Well most heroes I fight are 3+ saves with high wounds and many can even heal.... so no? Bc trying to roll "6's" with 8 dice, cool you got 1 6 for average of 2D, thats not really reliable at all. 380pts and a CP to maybe kill a 140pts support hero is not what I call ideal. 

You used to be able to do it on 5s with the Shaman.

[Maddpainting]

It was always only on a 6, and I was talking about new Skyfires anyways. 

[Vasshpit]

Beasts of chaos up in sales and trade. 

[Dolomedes]

So I'll assume that folk have seen the new updates for season two - if not, here's the link.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/12/21/generals-handbook-2023-a-time-for-galletian-champions/

What are we thinking lads? Doombull and Minotaurs time to shine? Beastlord and Bestigor combo? Maybe we can acchieve something tasty with Dragon Ogres and Doombull?
 

Or is all speculation pointless til we get our new book?

[The Red King]

Half of my skullfray gors are now complete along with my first freehand banner featuring the custom emblem of Mazarak Blood-eye. 

Sneaking an endless spell under khornes nose by making it entirely out of the blood of slain foes.

The striking red color should really add to the "alarm" feeling most players get when they're suddenly surrounded by ambushing goats.

[Maddpainting]

On 12/22/2022 at 1:23 PM, The Red King said:

Half of my skullfray gors are now complete along with my first freehand banner featuring the custom emblem of Mazarak Blood-eye. 

Sneaking an endless spell under khornes nose by making it entirely out of the blood of slain foes.

The striking red color should really add to the "alarm" feeling most players get when they're suddenly surrounded by ambushing goats.

Link broke for me

[Maddpainting]

On 12/22/2022 at 5:36 AM, Dolomedes said:

So I'll assume that folk have seen the new updates for season two - if not, here's the link.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/12/21/generals-handbook-2023-a-time-for-galletian-champions/

What are we thinking lads? Doombull and Minotaurs time to shine? Beastlord and Bestigor combo? Maybe we can acchieve something tasty with Dragon Ogres and Doombull?
 

Or is all speculation pointless til we get our new book?

Yeah with Taurus FYI bc we get Fight last with the new battalion that means if we make them also fight last then we in turn ... fight first! lol. 

[The Red King]

8 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

Link broke for me

Seems to be a site issue. Hopefully itll fix itself.

[The Jabber Tzeentch]

On 12/24/2022 at 12:36 PM, Maddpainting said:

Yeah with Taurus FYI bc we get Fight last with the new battalion that means if we make them also fight last then we in turn ... fight first! lol. 

In our turn yes. In their turn no

[Dolomedes]

On 12/24/2022 at 12:36 PM, Maddpainting said:

Yeah with Taurus FYI bc we get Fight last with the new battalion that means if we make them also fight last then we in turn ... fight first! lol. 

 

On 12/25/2022 at 10:28 PM, The Jabber Tzeentch said:

In our turn yes. In their turn no

Decent tech there. Might be worth packing a decent caster to make sure we can get the spell off.

I'm waiting to see what 'infantry' is defined as. I've got a hunch that we won't be able to use Bullgors and Dragon Ogres. 

[Skreech Verminking]

17 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

I'm waiting to see what 'infantry' is defined as. I've got a hunch that we won't be able to use Bullgors and Dragon Ogres. 

Worst case scenario Bestigors will be used 

[Dolomedes]

On 12/28/2022 at 5:01 AM, Skreech Verminking said:

Worst case scenario Bestigors will be used 

Looks like we can use Minotaurs as infantry.

Great axe Minotaurs as Galletian Veterans looks like the play imho. I'll still be using Bestigors as Galletian vets.

Not sure which aspect to take yet.

Of course, all of this is in pencil til we get our new book.

[The Red King]

9 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

Looks like we can use Minotaurs as infantry.

Great axe Minotaurs as Galletian Veterans looks like the play imho. I'll still be using Bestigors as Galletian vets.

Not sure which aspect to take yet.

Of course, all of this is in pencil til we get our new book.

It's funny how a small change takes everything that makes dogors the better choice over bulls and flips it. 

Considering the "swing with an extra rank" rule is apparently now a batallion I expect I'll keep running 20 bestigor and 12 great axe bullgor and finally be able to swing with everyone without risking getting bounty hunted. Excellent news.

Leadership of the Alpha seems like it could be really good if our herdstone really buff stays.

 

Are there more leaks?

Edited December 31, 2022 by The Red King

[Beliman]

Hi there, just wanted to copy&paste the last rules from the WarCom BoC preview:

A few more info on the article:

• Extra attack, 2damage and Once-per-battle fight twice (second time, attack-last) for Slaangors.
• Some type of "Rituals of Ruin" mechanic.

Not sure how good they are, but hope they are fun to play with.

[Magnus The Blue]

In case anyone has not seen it, some more spoilers in the Warhammer+ battle report.

Cygors keep 2 dispels but do 1 mortal to an enemy wizard within 30" successfully casts a spell (poor Naggash).

BrayblastTrumpet is a free summon of 10 Gors, Ungors or Raiders. Roll a dice, on a 1 they are delayed for a turn.

Centigors ignore the first two wounds per combat phase and ignore battleshock loses on 2+.

Herdstone is now extra 1 rend from turn 2 and 2 rend from turn 4.

Tendrils of Atrophy: 12" range, 7+ cast, all attacks against the target are +1 damage until your next hero phase!

 

All sounds promising.

[Cambot1231]

[The Red King]

I went ahead and made the 3.0 thread for anyone interested.  Linked 2 youtube video reviews I could find that are going live super early!