AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[The Red King]

Wildfire Taurus at 70 is much more likely to get used by me.

[Popisdead]

On 6/19/2022 at 8:53 AM, Maddpainting said:

Nothing went up and things only went time, what a great time for a beast! 

Dan Bradshaw has gone 27 straight wins with this BoC in UK tournaments.  He's leaning into a Tzeentch/Tzaangor heavy list.  

Has anyone seen it recently?

 

I have a blurry older copy, I was wondering if there were changes.  I'm not net-listing, just for posterity and interest.

[The Red King]

With confirmed points changes I'm definitely bringing the wildfire Taurus all the time (am I correct that the strikes last is not dependent on the 2+ roll since it's a separate sentence?)

Also centigor seem pretty good in general with their insane mobility and the herdstone changes. With no outside buffs they average 6 wounds on a 5+ save (enough to kill most support characters and some chaff) and more importantly if you put them in the new bounty hunters batallion they deal 14 wounds on the charge against a 4+ save from turn 3. Sure there are better bounty hunters but with a 22-36" threat range and only being 85 points they seem to punch above their weight class while not being important enough for the enemy to focus down.

 

Edit: Bestigor in the bounty hunters batallion average 22.96 wounds against a  4+ save (if it's a gallatian veteran with 10 or more models) and also benefit from bestial vigour and run/charge so they might be better than bullgor? I knew this coming season was going to be killier but that's insane. It's worth noting the bulls dont need to be Gallatian veterans to do their damage wheras the bestigor do need to be battleline to benefit from fighting in more ranks.

Edited June 21, 2022 by The Red King

[Myrdin]

Here is the direct GW link to all the PDF with all the price changes in case anyone wants it at better quality
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/a3rMwrniHgbY3n3H.pdf

[The Red King]

30 points for the horn/flock are both interesting. 

The horn is a nice little debuff that's kind of short ranged and easily dispelled but you can get it in place at least once on a key combat at 15"

The flock is equally easy to get rid of (more so kind of) but the "no inspiring presence" rule can be strong and it's range is somewhat unlimited. The black souled cowardice rule means the turn you summon it you just have to put it close to a unit of yours, move within 1" and then you pick it up and put it wherever you want. Alternatively on your opponents turn they can pick it up and move it to an empty corner of the map if they end within an inch but you can maybe use it to dictate the opponents movement or use your dispel in their turn to get rid of it (if you're within 30") and resummon it on your turn.

 

All in all I think the horn is more generally useful but the flock is maybe more interesting and tactical?

[Lord Krungharr]

Guess since they're cheap it's worth trying Endless Spells with normal level wizardry.  I've just been wasting points so many times on them I will only buy them for good casters (like my Seraphon army in the works).  

Looking forward to practicing with my BoC for the next few weeks and then a 3 game tourney in midJuly.  I might go with non-MSU units for my Bullgors with the battalions and changes to striking distance, and do 6/3 of great axes and 6/3 shield&axe ones.  If I went the extra damage battalion would I put my great axes in that one or the shield/axe ones?  I'd try the extra model count battalion on the other type of Bullgors.  

Shaggoth can have the Arcane Tome for casting an extra spell, probably Sundering Blades and Mystic Shield every turn.  Doombull general with Blackened Armor or Gilded Horns, not sure about that one, but he'll have Rampant Juggernaut.

Think I might just take 1 allied Mindstealer Cat, and 3 Chaos Chariots.  The Chariots work better in unison to stop up a good chunk of table and soften things up a bit, and it's hard to get the cat in range, so I'll sneak it up through cover for a strike first opportunity turn 2 or 3.  

 

[The Red King]

Mathematically I think dual axe is best in bounty hunters but of the two I'd say great axe.

I'd say blackened armor all the way. 33% of doing some mortal wounds on the charge just cant beat negating half the mortals he takes himself.

I'm really uncertain about battleline bulls. Yes swinging in an extra rank is everything they ever wanted but I'm not sure it's worth taking double damage when everyone is going to be bringing that batallion. With bestigors I feel it's worth it because they NEED to swing in 2 rows but a unit of 6 bulls is usually fighting with at least 4 until you lose one guy so it doesn't feel as necessary. That's all theorycrafting of course and who knows how the meta will shake out. 

I would invest heavily in screens this edition since it feels like it's going to be a big game of "who's bounty hunters hit who's bounty hunters"

 

Edit: Here's what I'm thinking of running as a rough draft.

 

 - Army Faction: Beasts of Chaos
     - Subfaction: Gavespawn
     - Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
     - Triumph: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Beastlord **
     - General
     - Command Traits: Unravelling Aura
     - Artefacts of Power: Mutating Gnarlblade
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth **
     - Spells: Hailstorm
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince **
     - Mark of Chaos: Khorne
     - Hellforged Sword and Malefic Talons
Great Bray-Shaman ***
     - Spells: Vicious Stranglethorns
Great Bray-Shaman ***
     - Spells: Wild Rampage
BATTLELINE
20 Bestigors *
10 Gors **
     - Gor Blade and Beastshield
10 Gors **
     - Gor Blade and Beastshield
OTHER
6 Bullgors *
     - Bullgor Great Axe
6 Bullgors *
     - Bullgor Great Axe
5 Centigors ***
5 Centigors ***
10 Ungor Raiders ***
10 Ungor Raiders ***
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Wildfire Taurus 
1 x Doomblast Dirgehorn 
TERRAIN
1 x Herdstone
CORE BATTALIONS
*Bounty Hunters
**Battle Regiment
***Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000

 

 

So tons of screening with raiders, centigor and gor to allow my punch to get where it's going. Same principle for the shaggoth and prince combining hailstorm and bloodslick ground can really neuter a key unit.

Fun fact the beastlord with gnarlblade does more damage than a shaggoth or doombull with the blade and if I can get the bull in there it's safe for him to swing first to activate his buff.

I like gavespawn because it has that awesome +1 attack command (even if we cant stack it anymore) which really bumps up damage potential. Obviously I need to summon spawn quick but summoning them upfield in range of the combat you want to buff isn't entirely unfeasible.

Double shaman may be unnecessary but their spells arent bad and their automatic speed buff makes the centigor insanely mobile while also buffing the beastlord (who is no slouch with the artifact) and bestigor.

The horn is really there to fill points but I discussed it above.

Edited June 24, 2022 by The Red King

[Lord Krungharr]

Guess if I could find some appropriate axes it would be easy enough to switch out my Bullgor shields.  Then I could use them on terrain instead of as shields.  

I always lack screens, but I just hate painting tons of tiny models, though not as much as assembling tons of tiny models.  Maybe I'll see about finding some assembled Ungors, they're expendable to a quick 3 colors and shading, not too bad.  

Khorne Prince ally is still solid, even though he gives up an extra VP, but I think it's CA will go away in the winter.

If one had Dragon Ogors battleline, they would NOT be Galletian Veterans, and thus would not be able to be in or extra-damaged by the Headhunters battalion right?  

[Bregor]

1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

 

If one had Dragon Ogors battleline, they would NOT be Galletian Veterans, and thus would not be able to be in or extra-damaged by the Headhunters battalion right?  

Yeah, Dragon Ogors can't be Galley Vets since they have too many wounds, so they won't take extra damage from bounty hunters. They *can* be put in a bounty hunters battalion themselves, though, since you don't have to be GV for that (just have the infantry battlefield role).

[Bregor]

So, this is my first attempt at a BoC list in the new ghb. I like the thought of bounty hunter Tzaangors getting +1 damage on all those weapon profiles, and DO dodge the whole Galley Vets issue. Spellportal is mostly for Devolve shenanigans, but also I think useful for damage projection. Could easily swap out for the Purple Sun. (Haven't figured out what spells I want yet)

- Army Faction: Beasts of Chaos

  - Subfaction: Gavespawn

  - Grand Strategy: Protect the Herdstone

LEADERS

Great Bray-Shaman (100)

  - Artefacts of Power: The Knowing Eye

  - Spells: Viletide

Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (155)

  - General

  - Command Traits: Unravelling Aura

  - Spells: Thunderwave

Tzaangor Shaman (135)

  - Spells: Wild Rampage

Tzaangor Shaman (135)

  - Spells: Wild Rampage

BATTLELINE

Dragon Ogors (125)

  - Draconic War-glaive

Dragon Ogors (125)

  - Draconic War-glaive

Ungors (65)

  - Brayhorn

  - Banner Bearer

  - Gnarled Shortspear and Half-shield

OTHER

Tzaangors (350)*

  - Pair of Savage Blades and a Vicious Beak

  - Savage Blade and Arcanite Shield

  - 2 x Brayhorn

  - 2 x Icon Bearer

  - 4 x Tzaangor Mutant

  - 8 x Savage Greatblade

Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs of Tzeentch (360)*

Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs of Tzeentch (360)*

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS

1 x Umbral Spellportal (70)

1 x The Burning Head (20)

TERRAIN

1 x Herdstone (0)

CORE BATTALIONS

*Bounty Hunters

TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

[The Red King]

13 hours ago, Bregor said:

So, this is my first attempt at a BoC list in the new ghb. I like the thought of bounty hunter Tzaangors getting +1 damage on all those weapon profiles, and DO dodge the whole Galley Vets issue. Spellportal is mostly for Devolve shenanigans, but also I think useful for damage projection. Could easily swap out for the Purple Sun. (Haven't figured out what spells I want yet)

- Army Faction: Beasts of Chaos

  - Subfaction: Gavespawn

  - Grand Strategy: Protect the Herdstone

LEADERS

Great Bray-Shaman (100)

  - Artefacts of Power: The Knowing Eye

  - Spells: Viletide

Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (155)

  - General

  - Command Traits: Unravelling Aura

  - Spells: Thunderwave

Tzaangor Shaman (135)

  - Spells: Wild Rampage

Tzaangor Shaman (135)

  - Spells: Wild Rampage

BATTLELINE

Dragon Ogors (125)

  - Draconic War-glaive

Dragon Ogors (125)

  - Draconic War-glaive

Ungors (65)

  - Brayhorn

  - Banner Bearer

  - Gnarled Shortspear and Half-shield

OTHER

Tzaangors (350)*

  - Pair of Savage Blades and a Vicious Beak

  - Savage Blade and Arcanite Shield

  - 2 x Brayhorn

  - 2 x Icon Bearer

  - 4 x Tzaangor Mutant

  - 8 x Savage Greatblade

Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs of Tzeentch (360)*

Tzaangor Enlightened on Discs of Tzeentch (360)*

ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS

1 x Umbral Spellportal (70)

1 x The Burning Head (20)

TERRAIN

1 x Herdstone (0)

CORE BATTALIONS

*Bounty Hunters

TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

Remember that Tzaangor don't get to swing in 2 ranks if they arent battleline (unless I'm mistaken) so to protect them from bounty hunters you give up damage potential. That's why I prefer screens, but then I also am using bullgor when I know enlightened on disk are the better option so it's not like I can secure for pure efficiency lol.

[buttviking]

Hello!

I am building a BoC army and considering going heavy into Tzaangors/Enlightened.

Does anyone know what happens when tzeentch get their new book? I assume they might get changed a lot (especially enlightened with their rerolls) so do they also get changed for BoC?

[Tarogrim]

Yes, as long as they don't split the warscrolls between Tzeentch and BoC which is unlikely. 

[Ser_namron]

Heyo, just looking for clarification on BoC rule. 

 

The ghavespawn ability gift of morghur,  Can the spawn be put right into combat with a unit or are there any core rules that prevent that? Seems pretty straightforward that it just says within 6" so I'm just double checking theirs no core rule or something preventing that, but it's also the only ability that seems to be this lenient in the game so I'm double checking. 

 

 

[The Red King]

37 minutes ago, Ser_namron said:

Heyo, just looking for clarification on BoC rule. 

 

The ghavespawn ability gift of morghur,  Can the spawn be put right into combat with a unit or are there any core rules that prevent that? Seems pretty straightforward that it just says within 6" so I'm just double checking theirs no core rule or something preventing that, but it's also the only ability that seems to be this lenient in the game so I'm double checking. 

 

 

It's an old book is why it seems to be an odd rule but yes you can put them straight in.

My only immediate thought is that if a character dies on a screen or something you can summon the spawn into a squishy backline unit like a hero or artillery.

Edited July 11, 2022 by The Red King

[Popisdead]

On 7/2/2022 at 7:54 AM, buttviking said:

I am building a BoC army and considering going heavy into Tzaangors/Enlightened.

Does anyone know what happens when tzeentch get their new book? I assume they might get changed a lot (especially enlightened with their rerolls) so do they also get changed for BoC?

So Tzaangors were released in the 1st AoS Tzeentch book.

Then BoC had them slightly updated (and better)

I don't know what happened to the warscroll when Tzeentch was updated but....

Given GW did not do the same Brayherd treatment for Slaangors they did for Tzaangors (made them mortal instead) I would suggest unless you are willing to switch gears and play Tzeentch in case of a severe change I would recommend you be hesitant going heavy into Tzeentch with an old book.  Building a fresh army with an old book is always a high risk with GW and time and time again I see someone bitterly complain 6 months after they start some venture.

I have been playing BoC since the 2003 6th ed book and Ungor bases, units changed 3 times (25->200>25 mm bases).  Beasts of Chaos do not have a good track record on stability.  We also lost Dragon Ogres for a while.  And the Chimera is new to us (so is the Cockatrice).  

[Maddpainting]

On 7/11/2022 at 10:53 AM, Ser_namron said:

Heyo, just looking for clarification on BoC rule. 

 

The ghavespawn ability gift of morghur,  Can the spawn be put right into combat with a unit or are there any core rules that prevent that? Seems pretty straightforward that it just says within 6" so I'm just double checking theirs no core rule or something preventing that, but it's also the only ability that seems to be this lenient in the game so I'm double checking. 

 

 

Yes and we are not the only book with abilities like this as well, normally regaining models you can not go into combat but new units normally you can. Belladonna spell lets you put units right into combat, there is a Tzeentch spell that does it, and the Vortex Beast can too, there are some others, while it is a more rare ability there are still enough of them that it is a know universal thing that can happen. 

[The Red King]

Mazarak Bloodeye Beastlord of the Skullfray Bloodeye's Beastfiends.

[Fyrenn]

It looks like from the screenshots I've seen that the new "Tzaangor Hosts" no longer have the BoC keyword.  Can't tell if it's the same for enlightened but i imagine so.

What does this mean?  Do we still use the old warscroll without concern, or does this mean they're being removed from the faction? (or are they fine for now but probably have their days numbered and will be removed or restricted to a subfaction whenever a new BoC book arrives)?

 

 

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

2 hours ago, Fyrenn said:

It looks like from the screenshots I've seen that the new "Tzaangor Hosts" no longer have the BoC keyword.  Can't tell if it's the same for enlightened but i imagine so.

What does this mean?  Do we still use the old warscroll without concern, or does this mean they're being removed from the faction? (or are they fine for now but probably have their days numbered and will be removed or restricted to a subfaction whenever a new BoC book arrives)?

 

 

It means they didn't include a keyword that's esentially irrelevant for the purpose of Arcane Cataclysm.  I'm sure we're fine for Tzaangors for a while still.

[Maddpainting]

Yeah these are quick pre-tome releases, most of the time they are not the same as the tome release rules. Also the name is not the same as our units, so really it doesn't effect us yet, when their tome comes out that might be a different story. But for now just continue how you have been.

[Popisdead]

On 8/20/2022 at 9:57 AM, Fyrenn said:

What does this mean?  Do we still use the old warscroll without concern, or does this mean they're being removed from the faction? 

It means the Brayherd keyword isn't in the Tzeentch book. 

The Slaanesh book didn't have it either.

Dan,.. uh whose ever list I posted above, is dominating the scene with a BoC Tzeentch heavy list, and I would guess he's close or part of the playtesting being a UK master.  I am hoping GW doesn't ignore his input.  And when the BoC battletome is re-done I would expect both Tzaangors and Slaangors to have similar warscrolls but with they Brayherd keyword.  

[Myrdin]

Just hope we are not loosing the Tzaangor units that we currently have. I think by this point a lot of BoC players invested good chunk of money into Tzaangor units, so removing them would be rather scummy move by GW, since they would then be relegated to simply proxi regular Gors and Bestigors.

In fact we should be getting all the god marked "gors and bulls" present or future, since it makes sense from both business standpoint and lore as well.

[Koala]

For those of us with a resin printer: Bestarium Miniatures have a release inspired by our favorite AoS faction this month ( Second Part in November). 

Not going to lie: those minotaurus are going into my herd. Never liked the "do you even lift, bro" GW Bullgors.

[Lord Krungharr]

anyone think the Cockatrice will still be in the next BoC tome?  Wondering if I should bother cobbling together another 2 from some spare Phoenix heads and things.