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AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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  • 3 weeks later...

So it seems Beasts are getting cheaper and cheaper... while that is nice for sure, we really need actual rules update and warscroll rework, not just endless price cuts.

Link towards the new "Battlescroll" update from 21.12.2021 for all factions, pic below just for BoC

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/XTPR7PzBSVcNAAOd.pdf

 

820200154_obrzok.png.45097910ef1264abcb787c3ca253cca7.png

Edited by Myrdin
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It is one the allegiance abilitiea that have been removed. In my case (Khorne) that changes nothing for coalition beasts, since all the buffs are limited to Khorne units and still work. 

I do Not know, however, how These rules impact other god-apecific armies. 

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4 minutes ago, Salyx said:

It is one the allegiance abilitiea that have been removed. In my case (Khorne) that changes nothing for coalition beasts, since all the buffs are limited to Khorne units and still work. 

I do Not know, however, how These rules impact other god-apecific armies. 

They can't benefit from slaughterhosts (niche issue where they were getting some bonuses such as Khul giving them rerolls in goretide) and more importantly a block of bullgor can no longer fight in the hero phase or fight on death due to blood tithe. They still currently benefit from Mark of the slayer, bloodsecrator, wrathmonger, blood blessings, etc. But I expect that to change when khorne gets an actual book.

 

It's less about power level and more about them just not being willing to say "we don't know how to balance this thing that isnt broken so please stop trying to play it"

 

Dont take away our batallions to god mark and replace them with worse coalition rules if they dont even want us to use coalition rules.

Edited by The Red King
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7 hours ago, Chaos Shepard said:

Its amazing how this change didn't touch Bestigors but they now feel so much worse now that they are more expensive than both Bullgors and Dragon Ogors.

This was my biggest issue with it.... But oh boy are DOs and Bullgors better.

Edited by Maddpainting
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3 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

so I guess Dos spamming armies can now be considered a horde army.

Their only purpose, dying in droves.

They are a bit more tanky than you would think. But I could see 18 in an army now, thats only 750pts, they are 8.33 points per wounds, thats 0.83ppm more than Gors and DOs are better in almost every way. 

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Now I want to play lists like this... thanks GW for making it even more DO/Cockatrice focus and leaving Brayherds off the table. Yeah I have Grashrak but only bc Herdstone and his spell. 

Shaggoth 155
Shaggoth 155
Grashrak 150
Dragon Ogres x6 250
Dragon Ogres x6 250
Dragon Ogres x3 125
Dragon Ogres x3 125
Dragon Ogres x3 125
Grashrak's Despoilers
Cockatrice 95
Cockatrice 95
Cockatrice 95
Cockatrice 95
Cockatrice 95
Cockatrice 95
Cockatrice 95

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Well. Considering my list as of late has been all dragon ogres and I've done very well with them, this is going to be scary for my local meta. Outside of our summoning staying the same, this feels like a really really good update for beasts. We've been meta-breakers, but this may be a bit too much for some armies to deal with.

 

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6 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

What was your list?

2X Shaggoth (1 with horn of the tempest and 1 with father of the storm)

3X6 Drogors with Crushers

1X Ghorgon 

1X centigor

One-eyed Grunnock

 

Previous to this list I was using Grunnock's points for more ghorgon and filling in whatever. Hilariously, the only one to stop me at the last GT from going 5-0 was a teclis list, which the ghorgon spam iteration just doesn't care about.

 

Edited by Derptau
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13 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

Now I want to play lists like this... thanks GW for making it even more DO/Cockatrice focus and leaving Brayherds off the table. Yeah I have Grashrak but only bc Herdstone and his spell. 

Shaggoth 155
Shaggoth 155
Grashrak 150
Dragon Ogres x6 250
Dragon Ogres x6 250
Dragon Ogres x3 125
Dragon Ogres x3 125
Dragon Ogres x3 125
Grashrak's Despoilers
Cockatrice 95
Cockatrice 95
Cockatrice 95
Cockatrice 95
Cockatrice 95
Cockatrice 95
Cockatrice 95

Looking at it, Spamming the currently cheapest units seem like a legit strategy.

this is a list I just came up with 

and it is kinda hilarious how cheap those units have become:

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos
- Grand Strategy: None Chosen
- Triumphs: 

Leaders
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (185)
Doombull (115)
Doombull (115)

Battleline

Units
6 x Dragon Ogors (300)
- 06x Draconic War glaives
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Dragon Ogors (300)
- 06x Draconic War glaives
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Dragon Ogors (150)
- 03x Draconic War glaives
6 x Bullgors (310)
- Great Axes
- Reinforced x 1
6 x Bullgors (310)
- Great Axes
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Dragon Ogors (150)
- 03x Draconic War glaives
1 x Cockatrice (95)

Behemoths
Cygor (140)
Cygor (140)
Cygor (140)
Cygor (140)

Total: 2590 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 228
Drops: 14
 

with the old points this would be 600 points over the limit, yet with the points changes it is a 2000 points list exactly.

edit: as fun as the current price seems to be, I’m really hoping that the next book will have the units at their fluff.

it is kinda stupid, when elite gigantic warriors, of which only a few are left, of which each has the power to lay down a city by themself, starts costing like some green-thing spore, that comes in numbers of a thousand.

I guess dragon ogors weren’t as extinct as we thought.

they really must be multiplying like rabbits😜each day.

 

 

Edited by Skreech Verminking
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  • 2 weeks later...

My actual list I will be running is more like this

Gargant or Khorne DP
Shaggoth AA/MoM
Shaman/Garshrak
X hero (Tshaman or Doom)
DO's x3 Optional 6
DO's x3
DO's x3
TEoF or Bullgors
TEoF or Bullgors
Centigors x1 or x2
Chariot x1 or x2
Depending on main Ally hero, will be Chimeras or Cockatrices

I have 3 Chimeras and 3 Cockatrices but now with DO's so cheap, I might do more of them and a Mega. 

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On 12/21/2021 at 6:29 PM, Maddpainting said:

This was my biggest issue with it.... But oh boy are DOs and Bullgors better.

How much better for Bullgors?  (warherd)?

21 hours ago, Skarband said:

Hi about bullgor and ghorghon spam? Some one use this list ? 

I have 24 Bullgors.  

I was thinking about taking a unit of 9 BL.  But to do that I lose DOs as BL which is our better choice...  

I know 9 Bullgors struggles with a few mechanics.  I also have 3 Ghorgons and a Cygor.  I liked running them last edition but they weren't good.  And I don't own enough cockatrices (1,.. so yeah) to make the MW spam work.

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On 1/5/2022 at 10:02 AM, Chaos Shepard said:

Mass Warherd is more viable now than it was before. I would recommend bringing the Taurus or the Sphiranx to manipulate the attack sequence to offset the units' lack of defense.

Oh yeah? hmmm interesting.  Got any suggestions?  I was reading the Hedonite thread and someone had Sigvald work 12 Bullgors and a Doombull but,.. i mean,.. that's kinda on part for points and stats...

 I bought a Sphiranx and returned it for something else.  I quite like the model.  

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14 hours ago, Popisdead said:

Oh yeah? hmmm interesting.  Got any suggestions?  I was reading the Hedonite thread and someone had Sigvald work 12 Bullgors and a Doombull but,.. i mean,.. that's kinda on part for points and stats...

I had sigvald go through near enough 2 units of bulls this weekend, coherency ruins something that could be truly devastating!

I also used to run bulls in my godseeker list before the change to get that extra rend and +2 to charge, not so much anymore though.

At the moment in my beasts lists I'm just running tzaangor enlightened instead of bulls mainly because of the reach. 

I have an aim of trying msu bulls but I think it may fall flat due to them suffering from anything at all swinging at them first! 

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10 hours ago, Feorag said:

I have an aim of trying msu bulls but I think it may fall flat due to them suffering from anything at all swinging at them first! 

 

Back in the day (6th ed Fantasy) there was a couple guys who used to run Khorne MSU Minotaur lists.  I think 4-5 with Dual HWs which was like 20 attacks?  But they had better WS.  

I ran MSU bulls in AoS 1 (with points but pre 2nd ed book) and liked it.  I would love to run it again.  I just wish that as elite troops they didn't hit on 4s but instead 3s.  I hate how they are so subject to dice spiking.  Granted a Doombull, Ghorgon and 3 Bullgors should be able to do some dmg.

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My good old 4 A S 6 Khorne Minotaurs.... 😄 With the latest point drops and extra rules, MSU Minotaur/Bullgor seem quite viable to me.

In a 2000 points list, you could squeeze up to 14 units into an army. Too bad they cannot get the Khorne Mark and ally in some attacks 😃

I would team them up into 2 units of 3 back to back so that you can always get some attacks in without having to worry about the opponent going first. If the opponent goes first, the front unit will take damage, but the back unit will be able to pile in. If the front unit goes first, it can get their hits in, take damage and the second unit will still be able to pile in. On the charge, they should both make contact for extra Mortal Wounds. I played something similar with Skullcrushers and it worked quite well, so I guess, it is not a bad idea.

 

Another spam list I am thniking about: What about the Cockatrice spam? Can you still take as many as you like and do they benefit from Monster rules? That would be really massive, being able to do D6 (shooting)+D3 (Monstrous Rampage) Mortals per Cockatrice. You would still lose some points due to Monsters slain, but you can get some back by completing your objectives with Monsters.

If a Cockatrice spam still works, I would put it above Bullgor spam in power level.

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