AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Maddpainting]

7 hours ago, TheMailman66 said:

Hey guys, was in the market for a new army and I know BoC isn't very good but you can't help what you're drawn to.

I was wondering what kind of model pool you guys use for summoning?  I was looking at building a list with a lot of bestigors and ungors, a couple of units of ungor raiders probably.

Its mostly game dependent, but you want to make sure to have at least 1 of the 3point summon units, a cockatrice, and a couple higher damaging units.

This is my recommended to have not the "must haves";
Ungors
Chariot
Spawn
Gors
Centigors
Raiders
Bestigors
Enlighten
Cockatrice
Dragon Ogres
Enlighten on Disk
Chimera

This is my Must have list;
Ungors
Chariot
Raiders
Cockatrice
Dragon Ogres

Ungors for cheap chaff to get a point, Raiders for the same thing but also can chip 1-2 wounds here and there, they also move fast and can still be more useful than Ungors, Cockatrice b.c its a Monster with fly, DO's and Chariot b.c they count as 2 models instead of 1, the Chariot also gets re-roll charges if you need it in a pinch. The count as 2 models instead of 1 is very important if they have a hero/1 thing on an objective that also counts as 1 or 2.
 

[Maddpainting]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/jUJe1sqnaUJm1RyN.pdf
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/od5R5vQCdUYsTvvB.pdf

Core updates too, Raiders are fixed and DO can use commands with themselves now.

[The Red King]

14 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/jUJe1sqnaUJm1RyN.pdf
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/od5R5vQCdUYsTvvB.pdf

Core updates too, Raiders are fixed and DO can use commands with themselves now.

I don't think any of this is enough but the raiders buff is a nice surprise and makes them... I mean useable. I wouldnt build around them or anything but still.

[Maddpainting]

4 hours ago, The Red King said:

I don't think any of this is enough but the raiders buff is a nice surprise and makes them... I mean useable. I wouldnt build around them or anything but still.

FAQs are not really there to boost, but at least DO can use commands now and Raiders are not dog ****** other than pre-game move. This makes me like my Raiders again.

[Lord Krungharr]

I still don't have a Cockatrice, or Chariots, or any Ungors of any kind.  Might have to wait til Christmastime for any of those.

For sure I need to try out the new Warherd extra Broken Realms rules.  That could give them the edge I have lacked in my most recent practice games.

[Dolomedes]

First game of 3.0 today - Taking this list. Word salad below.

The list is in 2 battle regiments, so it's a 2 drop list. The 1st regiment contains trash drops - GBS with Stranglethorns, Ungor herdstone campers and the chariot. Hopefully this will give me an advantage to set up well if my opponent opts for a 1 drop battle regiment deployment. If they have more drops than 2, I'll be able to dictate first turn. I can put the chariot in ambush which might get my opponent to screen it out and deploy further back, giving me better control of the centre. I could also deploy it aggressively in the middle of the table, pulling my opponent forward on deployment leaving their backline exposed for a potential ambush (gors for re-reoll charges, raiders for firepower). Pulling their army forward by aggressively deploying fast turn one hitters like chariots opens up easy VPs by using ambush to get 'Savage Spearhead'. 8th edition fantasy Beastmen taught me how useful chariots are for deployment psychology - your opponent will always react to a chariot deployment, even if the chariot is naff.

The rest of the list is fairly standard BoC stuff. The Bestigor blob with the Beastlord, Chaos Spawn and Tendrils GBS is the centre anvil. I went for 30 because in AoS 1.0 I found that maximising buffs (+1 to hit, +1 to save, +1 attack & +1 to wound all available here) across 30 models makes for a pretty decent centre that will hold an objective for multiple turns (unless your opponent has MW spam). It can usually kill off most things that get thrown at it too, even if they die horribly in the process. I'll aim to keep them away from monsters so I can use inspiring presence each turn. Inspiring presence on this unit is crucial (also worth keeping near the herdstone for the same reason). I'll use this blob to try and get the 'Conquer' battle tactic on turn 2 or 3, and 'Ferocious Advance' if there aren't any better battle tactics available early game.

The Ghorgon will probably be more of a distraction than anything integral to my strategy. It's there for a potential 'Monstrous Takeover' if available (though I think this would be better achieved by using metamorphosis on the blob GBS). It will probably get shelved after today unless it does something seriously impressive. I see our monsters as just giving away VPs as they're mostly on squishy 5+ saves. He's only out because I gave him a fancy new base and I want to see him in the table.

The Doombull & Minotaurs are there as a can opening hammer. I always keep them back and send the Bestigors up first. I'm running them in 6 rather than 2 * 3. I know a lot of people argue that the new coherency makes 3 man units more optimal. Personally, I can't think of a single time I ever manged to get all 6 into combat - usually it's 4 or 5 on the charge, and then one of them dies anyway, making the coherency stuff a non issue for me. All out attack on this unit is essential to get decent damage output from them, as their weakness has always been the 4+ to hit. I'll keep them back with the Doombull and commit them mid game, hopefully as a counter charge. I intend to use them to get 'Broken Ranks'. Doombull is the general, so he stays back to deny 'Slay the Warlord'. Will probably switch him out to a Shaggoth once it's painted.

It's fairly obvious what the raiders are there for. Either use them as shooting support for the centre, or as an ambushing hero sniper. I'm leaning more towards keeping them behind my screens so I can goad a charge and 'Unleash hell'. I went for 20 to maximise All Out Attack's effectiveness. Raiders tend to be objective holders late game once everything else is dead, so I'll keep them out the way so I've got a decent model count to go contesting with. Raiders also work well with the Warhounds - as they're slightly taller than dogs, they can shoot over the top of them.

Warhounds and Gors will act as screens, but the Gors might get used to ambush the backlines. Warhounds make a particularly good screen as they're non battleline (denying 'Broken Ranks') and their base size gives them a really wide coverage. If they don't die, they're also nifty for capping objective late game. If they do die, just summon them back in. I think I'll end up getting another unit of them.

The sideboard has 3 chariots, 2 Spawn (for hero death), 50 Ungor Raiders (can't be arsed getting them out of my case), 30 Ungor with spears (mauls not painted yet), 10 Gor with Shields and 60 Gors with 2 weapons (again, can't be arsed moving them). I'm finding Chariots & Raiders make the best reinforcement summons as they're quickly accessible and they can start getting busy immediately - Raiders shoot, Chariots re-roll charges and can act independently.

My opponent is bringing Skaven - will post later with a crude batrep and info about what works.  

  

[Dolomedes]

24 minutes ago, Dolomedes said:

First game of 3.0 today - Taking this list. Word salad below.

The list is in 2 battle regiments, so it's a 2 drop list. The 1st regiment contains trash drops - GBS with Stranglethorns, Ungor herdstone campers and the chariot. Hopefully this will give me an advantage to set up well if my opponent opts for a 1 drop battle regiment deployment. If they have more drops than 2, I'll be able to dictate first turn. I can put the chariot in ambush which might get my opponent to screen it out and deploy further back, giving me better control of the centre. I could also deploy it aggressively in the middle of the table, pulling my opponent forward on deployment leaving their backline exposed for a potential ambush (gors for re-reoll charges, raiders for firepower). Pulling their army forward by aggressively deploying fast turn one hitters like chariots opens up easy VPs by using ambush to get 'Savage Spearhead'. 8th edition fantasy Beastmen taught me how useful chariots are for deployment psychology - your opponent will always react to a chariot deployment, even if the chariot is naff.

The rest of the list is fairly standard BoC stuff. The Bestigor blob with the Beastlord, Chaos Spawn and Tendrils GBS is the centre anvil. I went for 30 because in AoS 1.0 I found that maximising buffs (+1 to hit, +1 to save, +1 attack & +1 to wound all available here) across 30 models makes for a pretty decent centre that will hold an objective for multiple turns (unless your opponent has MW spam). It can usually kill off most things that get thrown at it too, even if they die horribly in the process. I'll aim to keep them away from monsters so I can use inspiring presence each turn. Inspiring presence on this unit is crucial (also worth keeping near the herdstone for the same reason). I'll use this blob to try and get the 'Conquer' battle tactic on turn 2 or 3, and 'Ferocious Advance' if there aren't any better battle tactics available early game.

The Ghorgon will probably be more of a distraction than anything integral to my strategy. It's there for a potential 'Monstrous Takeover' if available (though I think this would be better achieved by using metamorphosis on the blob GBS). It will probably get shelved after today unless it does something seriously impressive. I see our monsters as just giving away VPs as they're mostly on squishy 5+ saves. He's only out because I gave him a fancy new base and I want to see him in the table.

The Doombull & Minotaurs are there as a can opening hammer. I always keep them back and send the Bestigors up first. I'm running them in 6 rather than 2 * 3. I know a lot of people argue that the new coherency makes 3 man units more optimal. Personally, I can't think of a single time I ever manged to get all 6 into combat - usually it's 4 or 5 on the charge, and then one of them dies anyway, making the coherency stuff a non issue for me. All out attack on this unit is essential to get decent damage output from them, as their weakness has always been the 4+ to hit. I'll keep them back with the Doombull and commit them mid game, hopefully as a counter charge. I intend to use them to get 'Broken Ranks'. Doombull is the general, so he stays back to deny 'Slay the Warlord'. Will probably switch him out to a Shaggoth once it's painted.

It's fairly obvious what the raiders are there for. Either use them as shooting support for the centre, or as an ambushing hero sniper. I'm leaning more towards keeping them behind my screens so I can goad a charge and 'Unleash hell'. I went for 20 to maximise All Out Attack's effectiveness. Raiders tend to be objective holders late game once everything else is dead, so I'll keep them out the way so I've got a decent model count to go contesting with. Raiders also work well with the Warhounds - as they're slightly taller than dogs, they can shoot over the top of them.

Warhounds and Gors will act as screens, but the Gors might get used to ambush the backlines. Warhounds make a particularly good screen as they're non battleline (denying 'Broken Ranks') and their base size gives them a really wide coverage. If they don't die, they're also nifty for capping objective late game. If they do die, just summon them back in. I think I'll end up getting another unit of them.

The sideboard has 3 chariots, 2 Spawn (for hero death), 50 Ungor Raiders (can't be arsed getting them out of my case), 30 Ungor with spears (mauls not painted yet), 10 Gor with Shields and 60 Gors with 2 weapons (again, can't be arsed moving them). I'm finding Chariots & Raiders make the best reinforcement summons as they're quickly accessible and they can start getting busy immediately - Raiders shoot, Chariots re-roll charges and can act independently.

My opponent is bringing Skaven - will post later with a crude batrep and info about what works.  

  

Switching Ungors to Gors as I have 5 points spare.

[Popisdead]

8 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

Switching Ungors to Gors as I have 5 points spare.

TBH given the benefits of Gors of Ungors with the small points spread I'm surprised to see Ungors on the table in any game these days.  

Also I'm interested to hear how Bestigors go for you.  I want to know how they (even in 30-block) perform these days.  Paying for -1 Rend is an unseen tax punishment.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Popisdead

[Chaos Shepard]

I have found that -1 Rend can still work for us due to other Rend altering abilites in Beast of Chaos. Try to align it with either the Herdstone, Sundering Blades, or Tendrils. Just try to be aware of where the enemy puts mystic shield lest your rend gets completely negated.

Another way to make Rend more reliable is to spread out engagements. It is a bit risky but the enemy can only use all out defense in one spot. I have had some decent luck using Enlightened behind a screen of Gor, Ungor Raiders. Also being able to dictate combat order with the Taurus has worked wonders.

[Apok]

Greetings!

 Dear colleagues, I have managed to gathered some people in my area (4 to be exact) and introduce them to Age of Sigmar! We are starting to play a bunch of 1000 point games as it is a nice way to get the mechanics and other stuff to the beginners. Now, I am also a noob, unfortunately I play and collect too much table top games to consider myself a pro or even half decent in any  But non the less I have a ton of fun no matter the system. Now, I would like to ask You for some advice to my following list, namely is it any good?:)

Shaggoth with AoD

Doombull with Gnarlblade

Shaman with Titanic Fury

10x Bestigors

10x Ungors

3x Great Axe Bulls

Spawn

Ghorgon.

 Please excuse me for my method of submitting the list. All the heroes and bulls are in the Warlord batatlion. My question is, do I lack screens, or heavy hitters? At first I wanted to make a Tzeentch type list focused on Tzaangors etc., but the bulk of my Army is painted as Ghyran/Nurgle Gavespawn so I I've decided to go back to the Roots (funny thing, that Actually Sepultura is in my background as I write this post:))

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Apok

[Dolomedes]

15 hours ago, Popisdead said:

TBH given the benefits of Gors of Ungors with the small points spread I'm surprised to see Ungors on the table in any game these days.  

Also I'm interested to hear how Bestigors go for you.  I want to know how they (even in 30-block) perform these days.  Paying for -1 Rend is an unseen tax punishment.

Gors would have been a much better choice if my ****** Skaven opponent didn't choose 'Tooth and Nail' as the battleplan. You can't ambush in that plan, and you can't charge/shoot on the turn your models set up as a reinforcement, so that screwed up my nifty deployment tactics. Gors functioned as meatshields (with shields) to hold onto objectives, and did it better than Ungors would have done. Backed up with a GBS for mystic shield in the later turns, they justified their extra 5 point cost. Gors will be remaining in future lists as 10 man blocks for objective/ambush shenanigans. I think using them for ambushes will be the way forward now, as they can pose a psychological threat with their charge re-roll, but more importantly, if they from ambush in some weird location they can be kept out of harm's way denying VPs for your opponent going for 'Linebreaker'.

Bestigors did a stellar job of wiping out a flank but then got blitzed by a Stormvermin/Thanquol/Warlord counter charge. The 30 block always does the job I want it to. They run up the field, punch something in the face, then draw fire and die. I kept them in herdstone range on turn 3 and backed them up with the Tendrils GBS, Beastlord, and Spawn. Stormvermin were on a 6+ save when they counter charged, so the remaining Bestigor were set to liquidate them. My opponent knows how dangerous unchecked Bestigor are, so he committed Thanquol's flamethrowers & magic as well as a souped up Stormvermin unit with Clawlord. I find the great strength of the 30 man block is that it forces your opponent to commit to dealing with it. The bray shaman guarantees they'll get where you want them to be and provides Mystic Shield/Tendrils/Devolve, the Spawn boosts attacks, the Beastlord now buffs them without having to use a command ability (as well as dealing some decent damage) and turns to Spawndom on death providing extra wounds for the opponent to deal with. Spawndom was good for hanging on to objectives as spawn count as 2 models with their 5 wound profile.  30 3+ saves with heroes & spawns takes commitment to kill, and your opponent is forced to commit to it or they get smacked by them and risk losing an objective. The advantage of the 30 man block isn't in it's killing power - it's in it's pulling power. They inevitably die, but it pulls the opponents nastiest units away from other objectives for a few turns, providing us a clear field to win the chaff game and score early VPs. Also, if you've got minotaurs nearby, the 30 man block works great as an anvil to the minotaur hammer. I'll continue to run my 30 man block as a suicide Tarpit/Anvil that can turn into a Hammer if left alone to set up. Always keep inspiring presence ready for them.
 

15 hours ago, Chaos Shepard said:

I have found that -1 Rend can still work for us due to other Rend altering abilites in Beast of Chaos. Try to align it with either the Herdstone, Sundering Blades, or Tendrils. Just try to be aware of where the enemy puts mystic shield lest your rend gets completely negated.

Another way to make Rend more reliable is to spread out engagements. It is a bit risky but the enemy can only use all out defense in one spot. I have had some decent luck using Enlightened behind a screen of Gor, Ungor Raiders. Also being able to dictate combat order with the Taurus has worked wonders.

See above spiel about Bestigors - sending them in as a suicide bomb forces the opponent to spend their +1 save resources on dealing with it, and with hero/spawn support a 30 man block can effectively force the engagement to give you advantage on the rest of the field. Stacking save debuffs with rend definitely works, even the effect is only psychological. Rather than spreading out engagements, force them - the Bestigors can do it with a 100% success rate. I'm not sure you'd be able to reliably pull off the same tactic with Gors, as they're much less threatening, and less survivable. Sticking the Taurus in there for combat order is a great idea - once mines is painted, I'll give it a shot. Supporting the Bestigor Bomb with a Taurus ready Shaggoth just behind might well be an improvement on what I have.

[Kazimer]

Doing the math, the new Ungor rewording actually is a steeper buff than it appears! Its the same damage output as rerolling 1-2 to hit, only now instead of 30+ models its 10+ models

[Dolomedes]

Some more thoughts on us in 3.0 from my game.

Taking 2 battle regiments for my battalions worked well. My opponent went for the 1 drop, so I got a decent set up on him and could out manoeuvre from turn one. The advantage of filling out 2 battle regiments was in the sheer amount of extra units I could bring. Having more units meant I could win the MSU game and get my grand strategy easily - 'Predator's Domain' (control more terrain than your opponent). I think there's a good case to be made for chariot spam - they're super cheap and can get stuff done right out of turn one. 6 wounds means they're 2 models for objective capping, and they can function quite well independently. Their 4+ save means they'll probably stick around a bit too, and if they survive, they can easily get where they're needed. 2 Battle regiments means you can take 10 units, so I I'll aim to fill up the slots with chariots. I've got Centigors to paint up, which I will probably use in the future for a similar role. Our access to lots of cheap, fast chaff units can give us a serious advantage in the field if we take enough of them.

Warhounds are great. Their large base size makes them my best screen. They easily paid their points cost by screening off a Skaven Gnawhole. They aren't battleline, so they can screen without giving away easy VPs to 'Linebreaker' (kill a battleline unit). If mine didn't get blown up, they would have been handy late game to go grab an objective. I think I'll get a second unit.

Great Bray Shaman's remain a must have. Devolve is such a good spell, and mystic shield is essential. Also the +3 to movement for Brayherd units is huge. I aim to max out Bray Shamans. 'Metamorphosis' is the hot new spell for them, as it turns them into monsters. This means they can access the monstrous rampage table. One of my shaman's turned into a Monster and blew up a Gnawhole by using 'Smash to Rubble'. They can also access 'Roar' and 'Stomp' doing mortal wounds or denying command abilities. Bray Shamans can turn themselves from 2 to 5 models for contesting objectives by using Metamorphosis, making them incredibly useful late game for capping objectives, or even getting the bonus VPs that are monster specific. Heroic recovery helps them out with their natural squishyness. 'Viletide' and 'Vicious Stranglethorns' can give them a bit of mortal wound output too. An excellent unit for 100 points.

My Ghorgon performed well by clearing 27 clan rats in one turn but I still think they're underwhelming. They're just too slow and squishy, and their wound table degrades too quickly. Having access to the Monster keyword is handy for point scoring, but I think we have better options in the Shaggoth and the Cockatrice (and Bray Shaman - see above). Playing the Ghorgon seems to me like handing your opponent easy VPs ('Bring it Down' battle tactic, 'Predators and Prey' special rule). 

I shed a tear for my Ungor raiders. For a long time I've enjoyed bringing 2 or sometimes 3 units of 30. Mass pew pew is no longer as effective with their recent scroll change (re-roll hits of 1 & 2 if you have 30 is now +1 to wound if there are 10 or more). They'll live on as 10 man ambushers or screens, picking off points here and there. Still a good option as a summon if you get a good Primordial call roll, but I can't see me bringing 90 of them again.

Doombull & Minotaurs are still good can openers that can reliably deal damage. Their new impact hits rule is a nice boost, but I think the Doombull is now overshadowed by the Shaggoth as a general pick (Monster keyword, good magic), unless you're leaning into Warherd. My minotaurs got blown up in the magic phase so I can't comment about their effectiveness.

Overall, I think 3.0 will give a nice chance for some of our chaff units to shine. Previously I found myself not taking them as they were difficult to get into Battalions for low drop deployment, but now we'll be able to see their strengths on the table. I think the way to play is going to be to try dominating the outfield objectives game from the start, and using strength in numbers with superior movement to tilt the Battle Tactics in our favour. 

 

 

[Dolomedes]

36 minutes ago, Kazimer said:

Doing the math, the new Ungor rewording actually is a steeper buff than it appears! Its the same damage output as rerolling 1-2 to hit, only now instead of 30+ models its 10+ models

I think 10 man units is the way forward now. What's the math looking like on a 30 man with +1 to hit?

[Kazimer]

24 minutes ago, Dolomedes said:

I think 10 man units is the way forward now. What's the math looking like on a 30 man with +1 to hit?

With no +1 to hit it works out the exact same as original reroll hit Ungors, 10ish wounds per 30. With a +1 to hit, that bumps to 13ish. The +1 to wound maths them out THE EXACT SAME as before only now the damage buff doesnt go away until 10 models where previously it got worse over time until it disappeared at 20. Overall Ungor raiders have been net buffed from 2.0, still not super amazing but theyre useable

[Popisdead]

19 hours ago, Chaos Shepard said:

I have found that -1 Rend can still work for us due to other Rend altering abilites in Beast of Chaos. Try to align it with either the Herdstone, Sundering Blades, or Tendrils. Just try to be aware of where the enemy puts mystic shield lest your rend gets completely negated.

Another way to make Rend more reliable is to spread out engagements. It is a bit risky but the enemy can only use all out defense in one spot. I have had some decent luck using Enlightened behind a screen of Gor, Ungor Raiders. Also being able to dictate combat order with the Taurus has worked wonders.

I've been wondering about that "rend stacking".  Relying on spells with no buff seems like a huge gamble.  So reliably I would think Bullgors and the Herdstone to be the best bet.  Magic is really strong this edition and more things are getting more buffs I've played my Sylvaneth twice and CoS once and both time I noticed between Throne, buffs (Ghur mage is +3 on an Endless Spell) that not having our old "mage council" form 8th ed is something that hurts.  If we could choose to sacrifice an ungor, get that much for summoning AND get a bonus to cast from the D3 that would be helpful.  

Also even if BoC can get to -4, I rarely throw a Durthu or Alarielle at my opponent without +3 on my save pool (Mystic, All out Defence, Ghost tree spell thingy) if I'm worried about taking wounds.  So suddenly at best the BoC are getting my save down to 4+ on either.  Effective but not as threatening?

2 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

 I think there's a good case to be made for chariot spam 

My Ghorgon performed well by clearing 27 clan rats in one turn but I still think they're underwhelming. 

I've been wondering about Chariots as well.  Ambush, rr charges, and 4+ save.  If you can get a Mystic Shield of on a unit of them it would be something to chip away at.

Ghorgons are subjective to dice spiking.  I've found they do 1-3 wounds or 20+.  I love them but they are just,.. a lot like a 40k ORk thing.  nothing a couple turns, okay a couple turns, super brutal one turn that jades my opponent forever.

 

This was mentioned in the Slaanesh thread, but I'm assuming someone hinted it in the Rumour Thread that Oct/Nov are a new BoC book?  Can anyone confirm they have seen this rumour elsewhere than the Slaanesh thread? haha.  

[Kazimer]

Bare in mind I was wrong about one thing, Ungor Raiders are max 20 due to being non-battleline. That kind of hurts the blob idea, but I still think 20 is better than 10 if you can afford the reinforcements.

[Chaos Shepard]

I have found that ambushing a unit of 20 Raiders to be pretty effective. I will usually ambush them with either a Beastlord with Gnarlblade/Volcanic Axe or a small unit of Enlightened about 2" deep behind/surrounded by the Raiders. This often forces my opponent to pull units away from the front line to go deal with this threat in their back field. If the opponent isn't carful the Beastlord or Enlighten can really punish what the unit sent to deal with the raiders. It is real easy for your opponent to either over or under commit to this threat. Either case is good for you.

[Lord Krungharr]

Is including a Chaos Gargant or two in a BoC army just a terrible idea?  Or is it better to shave off 10 points and just get a Ghorgon?  Or splurge for the Chimera?

I guess for Darkwalkers, only the Ghorgon could Ambush right?

Interesting points above about handing opponents easy to accomplish Battle Tactics.  Hadn't thought of units like that.  Guess my allied Mindstealer Sphiranxes are easy monsters to slay, but I find them too useful to not take.

[Dolomedes]

9 hours ago, Chaos Shepard said:

I have found that ambushing a unit of 20 Raiders to be pretty effective. I will usually ambush them with either a Beastlord with Gnarlblade/Volcanic Axe or a small unit of Enlightened about 2" deep behind/surrounded by the Raiders. This often forces my opponent to pull units away from the front line to go deal with this threat in their back field. If the opponent isn't carful the Beastlord or Enlighten can really punish what the unit sent to deal with the raiders. It is real easy for your opponent to either over or under commit to this threat. Either case is good for you.

Cracking idea. Decent model count too for capping an objective deep in enemy territory. Would work well with a Bestigor bomb doing the same from the front. It's an easy battle tactic on 'Savage Spearhead' as well. What do you find more effective - Beastlord or Enlightened? I suppose that may be greatfray dependent.

[Dolomedes]

5 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Is including a Chaos Gargant or two in a BoC army just a terrible idea?  Or is it better to shave off 10 points and just get a Ghorgon?  Or splurge for the Chimera?

I guess for Darkwalkers, only the Ghorgon could Ambush right?

Interesting points above about handing opponents easy to accomplish Battle Tactics.  Hadn't thought of units like that.  Guess my allied Mindstealer Sphiranxes are easy monsters to slay, but I find them too useful to not take.

Personally I think they're not a great pick. Too slow and squishy (handing easy VPs), and the Ghorgon might well do the same job better for 10 points less. The Ghorgon has more wounds, similar damage output, no silly charge rule, MWs on the charge and MWs in combat, and it can get buffed by a Doombull and Darkwalkers greatfray. Ghorgons and Gargants I see as being anti infantry monsters. They just don't have reliable enough output to deal with anything scarier, and we have better options available for that anyway (Bullgors, Enlightened, Skyfires, Bestigors). If you're after monsters to do cool monster stuff with, the Cockatrice or a Bray Shaman can do it for half the price, with other neat stuff too. Cockatrice doesn't have the Behemoth profile, so you can take it without filling out a behemoth slot.

Personally I think the Jabber might be worth another read. 3 range attacks, -2 rend, 4+ save, no profile degradation, MW output, casting debuffs, and decent reliable fly movement. On a 4+ it's now our hardiest monster (shaggoth excluded). Only issue is that dam attack buff to enemy units. There's alot of potential there for 165 points. Perhaps it could be used as bait to set you up for a counter charge. Easy VP for your opponent to take, that they can't ignore, but it's pretty much guaranteed to do something before it inevitably explodes. This is pure theory hammer here though, and I haven't played one for a while, so it might function completely differently on the battlefield. I can't help but think there's something I've missed about it though. I suppose you could get it to 'Unleash Hell' before it get's charged too!

[Chaos Shepard]

8 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

Cracking idea. Decent model count too for capping an objective deep in enemy territory. Would work well with a Bestigor bomb doing the same from the front. It's an easy battle tactic on 'Savage Spearhead' as well. What do you find more effective - Beastlord or Enlightened? I suppose that may be greatfray dependent.

I think the Enlightened are probably better, more wounds, attacks, and better range. However, if you are playing Gavespawn, that Beastlord is probably already in your army and has a second chance at life in the form of a spawn. The Beastlord also has the possibility to buff the raiders in combat with grisly trophy, its not much but it can add 1 or 2 wounds to the enemy. Though if you are playing Dark Walkers you could probably use Bullgors or maybe even Dragon Ogors, though the Dragon Ogors might be a tight fit and are a bit of an investment.

[Lord Krungharr]

9 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

Personally I think they're not a great pick. Too slow and squishy (handing easy VPs), and the Ghorgon might well do the same job better for 10 points less. The Ghorgon has more wounds, similar damage output, no silly charge rule, MWs on the charge and MWs in combat, and it can get buffed by a Doombull and Darkwalkers greatfray. Ghorgons and Gargants I see as being anti infantry monsters. They just don't have reliable enough output to deal with anything scarier, and we have better options available for that anyway (Bullgors, Enlightened, Skyfires, Bestigors). If you're after monsters to do cool monster stuff with, the Cockatrice or a Bray Shaman can do it for half the price, with other neat stuff too. Cockatrice doesn't have the Behemoth profile, so you can take it without filling out a behemoth slot.

Personally I think the Jabber might be worth another read. 3 range attacks, -2 rend, 4+ save, no profile degradation, MW output, casting debuffs, and decent reliable fly movement. On a 4+ it's now our hardiest monster (shaggoth excluded). Only issue is that dam attack buff to enemy units. There's alot of potential there for 165 points. Perhaps it could be used as bait to set you up for a counter charge. Easy VP for your opponent to take, that they can't ignore, but it's pretty much guaranteed to do something before it inevitably explodes. This is pure theory hammer here though, and I haven't played one for a while, so it might function completely differently on the battlefield. I can't help but think there's something I've missed about it though. I suppose you could get it to 'Unleash Hell' before it get's charged too!

I forgot the Jabberslythe existed!  Didn't realize they had changed the warscroll, it used to be like a Belakor substitute to shut thing down randomly.  Adding new species to my zoo is appealing though, I'll look to see what bits I can cobble one together with.  Cockatrice Finecast version is pretty nice as is and not too expensive usually.

[Dolomedes]

29 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I forgot the Jabberslythe existed!  Didn't realize they had changed the warscroll, it used to be like a Belakor substitute to shut thing down randomly.  Adding new species to my zoo is appealing though, I'll look to see what bits I can cobble one together with.  Cockatrice Finecast version is pretty nice as is and not too expensive usually.

The best thing about the Cockatrice is the endless amount of childish amusement.

'I'm going to have to stick a steel rod in my Cockatrice, this glue just isn't making it stiff enough' etc.

I've had mine 2 days, and I haven't got bored yet. Not even a bit. 

[Maddpainting]

On 9/2/2021 at 2:28 PM, Lord Krungharr said:

I forgot the Jabberslythe existed!  Didn't realize they had changed the warscroll, it used to be like a Belakor substitute to shut thing down randomly.  Adding new species to my zoo is appealing though, I'll look to see what bits I can cobble one together with.  Cockatrice Finecast version is pretty nice as is and not too expensive usually.

Jabber went from bad to worst......