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AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion


Gaz Taylor

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Well boys, just when I think we can't possibly get any worse... Here we are. 

 

Cohesion, melee, and even our speed advantage all took hits. Running as a horde gone. Marked battalions gone. Desolating Beastherd gone. I'm sure there's more. Edit: Gavespawn CA nerfed, bestigor took an indirect nerf with the lowering of unit sizes.

But hey, at least now our table perforce completely matches our lore performance. We wouldn't want to accidentally win and confuse people, would we?

Edited by Vaporlocke
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We still have access to the extra run for brayherd units from the shaman.

Tzaangor enlightened became probably the most reliable damage dealers we have now. 

Bullgors still work, just not as reliable as they currently are. 

Allherd becomes rather good with the abundance of command points and the command ability doesn't affect a unit so can be used multiple times.

Arcane Tome new generic artefact gets us access to a 2 cast wizard finally! 

Gavespawn took a massive hit which is a shame as stacking cp to kill off an important unit was key. It still works just not as good as previously.

We're not in the best of places but it's still workable!

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We know for sure warscroll battalions are open/narrative play only. While yes we need a faq for sure as do many others. I'm just going off what we know for now trying to make the best of it without the faqs (There are PDF's of the full core rules if you want to go see them).

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7 hours ago, Vaporlocke said:

Well boys, just when I think we can't possibly get any worse... Here we are. 

 

Cohesion, melee, and even our speed advantage all took hits. Running as a horde gone. Marked battalions gone. Desolating Beastherd gone. I'm sure there's more. Edit: Gavespawn CA nerfed, bestigor took an indirect nerf with the lowering of unit sizes.

But hey, at least now our table perforce completely matches our lore performance. We wouldn't want to accidentally win and confuse people, would we?

What is the change to the Gavespawn CA?  Where did you see the new unit sizes etc?

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8 minutes ago, Fyrenn said:

What is the change to the Gavespawn CA?  Where did you see the new unit sizes etc?

All CA are limited to 1 per phase per unit, so the days of dumping all your cp to give a bunch of extra attacks are gone. Reinforcement limits the unit sizes in matched play.

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Also CP's are use it or lose it each turn, so you can't save them, but you get over all more CP. Meaning Allherd could be better in general now if you spend you multi CP on your turn for Allherd and your CP on your opponents turn for abilities, or just Allherd for a couple turns then use them for damage later. 

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ahh... i thought you saw something in GHB.  so it's more likely to have multiple spawn giving a buff to multiple units as opposed to an all eggs situation.  i mean, i can live with it.  sounds like there will be more units anyway.

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I'm incredibly bummed by the loss of being able to run my blades of khorne brass despoiler army but the GHB is coming out on the same day so I can't commit to being gutted just yet as it feels like having half the rules.

 

Also the idea of running allherd and just throwing out extra Call Points every turn seems nice, especially now that every monster we can summon is a little more impactful.

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13 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Also CP's are use it or lose it each turn, so you can't save them, but you get over all more CP. Meaning Allherd could be better in general now if you spend you multi CP on your turn for Allherd and your CP on your opponents turn for abilities, or just Allherd for a couple turns then use them for damage later. 

Apparently you can only issue 1 command ability per character and can only be affected by 1 command ability. Also the same command ability can't be used more than once per phase which looks like our allherd dreams are dashed :(

Screenshot_20210614-132903~2.png

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24 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Yeah, once per phase..... well you can do it eve turn I guess then lol. But IDK if +5 (or +4 meaningful points) is worth it, the Bravery bonus and re-roll charges might be good though.

I'd honestly prefer gnarlblade and turning into spawn when a character dies.

To be fair this could be where we start seeing non greatfrey lists 😯

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19 hours ago, Vaporlocke said:

I'm really digging through trying to find a bright side to any of this but I'm not seeing anything.

Oh well, my goats have always been bad, so being absolutely terrible isn't all that much worse.

  • Dragon Ogres double for objectives.
  • Shaggoths gets both Monster and Hero command abilities. In theory Shaggoths could be monster hunters now with its spells, Gavespawn Relic, New spell for +1D,a nd Monster/Heroic abilities to buff damage even more. You can be 6D, +1 to wounds, +1 to saves, and heal to keep you alive as well as some other things for options.
  • Dragon Ogres counts as 2 models for objectives
  • Cockatrices are Flying Monsters, they seem to be great if points don't change too much.
  • Fast small screen and throw away units are insanely important to stopping and eating opponents "Unleash Hell" so Hounds, Razorgors, and Centigors for example (Furies if you like to ally).
  • Battalions are free and easy for us to fill, we can have LOTS of free one time use command abilities., its nothing for us to take 5 of them. Yes we lost our 1 drop but more importantly other has gain 1 drops so its not like we can make sure to go first or second now anyways.
  • Arcane bolt can be shot at any phase, so we can cast it outside of denial range and then use it later.
  • MSU is looking like its going to be the norm, we can still do MSU very strong
  • We can leave objectives and they can no longer take it without being wholly within. 

I'm still reading over the rules, will update more later.

Edited by Maddpainting
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37 minutes ago, Maddpainting said:

Battalions are free and easy for us to fill, we can have LOTS of free one time use command abilities., its nothing for us to take 5 of them. Yes we lost our 1 drop but more importantly other has gain 1 drops so its not like we can make sure to go first or second now anyways.

Has this been confirmed yet?

 

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1 hour ago, Maddpainting said:

It the core rules they are 100% free, now if a GH comes out they could add points to them.

If? It's already up for pre order isnt it?

 

Which is actually my slimmest hope for beasts of khorne. But hey I could stand to convert a neat shaggoth. Plus most of my khorne daemons are the old metal beastial looking ones who will fit right in if I need to summon some gors. I'll survive either way I think but it certainly doesnt look like the edition alone is going to make beasts great. Still any time you get to try a bunch of new stuff is neat.

Edited by The Red King
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On 6/13/2021 at 11:43 PM, Vaporlocke said:

Well boys, just when I think we can't possibly get any worse... Here we are. 

 

Cohesion, melee, and even our speed advantage all took hits. Running as a horde gone. Marked battalions gone. Desolating Beastherd gone. I'm sure there's more. Edit: Gavespawn CA nerfed, bestigor took an indirect nerf with the lowering of unit sizes.

But hey, at least now our table perforce completely matches our lore performance. We wouldn't want to accidentally win and confuse people, would we?

Keep it in perspective. Basically everyone got worse than they were before except for Stormcast.

Also, having access to cheap model deletion is absolutely massive in this edition.

Edited by Sinfullyvannila
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On 6/11/2021 at 10:26 AM, The Red King said:

My list was running out of blades of khorne thanks to Brass Despoilers so I definitely have some concerns, but as is I only run one unit over minimum size and that's 6 bulls who I would probably break down to 2×3 anyway because of these terrible coherency rules anyway.

I would say it was terrible reach rules on Bullgors.  There is no logic Bullgors and possibly Bestigors only have 1" reach.  

The Unit Coherency have been in 40k for a year and complaining about the change is needless and ignorant to knowing it was coming. I don't think it's unreasonable for people to not complain about them.  Unless they wanted to go back to 30 Dryads in a conga line and auto-winning turn 1.   

On 6/14/2021 at 2:36 AM, Maddpainting said:

Actually... now we lost 1 drops (I mean true 1 drops) i might take a couple core battalions to get more heroes and some free small buffs lol.

The Battle Regiment allows for 1 drop, at smaller game sizes.  Keep in mind I think moving to 40k and counter deploying to your opponent will be more useful as will stacking a couple freebies from other Battalions.  Warlord looks good.  2 freebies is kinda handy.  

23 hours ago, The Red King said:

If? It's already up for pre order isnt it?

If you sign up for the newsletter they are free.  As of yesterday.  

On 6/13/2021 at 9:43 PM, Vaporlocke said:

Well boys, just when I think we can't possibly get any worse... Here we are. 

I'm surprised you feel this is the case... have you played with them a lot since yesterday morning and tested a wide variety of changes?  

 

The best thing about new edition changes is the fresh start for a while trying out new things.  As a book with more playable races "Brayherd, Warherd, DrOgurs" we have a lot to explore and try before making sweeping comments of doom with no actual proof behind them.

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3 hours ago, Popisdead said:

 

I'm surprised you feel this is the case... have you played with them a lot since yesterday morning and tested a wide variety of changes?  

 

The best thing about new edition changes is the fresh start for a while trying out new things.  As a book with more playable races "Brayherd, Warherd, DrOgurs" we have a lot to explore and try before making sweeping comments of doom with no actual proof behind them.

Do you need to touch every fire you see to know that it's hot or can you lean on past experiences to predict future outcomes?

 

Barring everyone else getting massive point increases but our units staying the same we're in for a rough time, and even that may not be enough. 

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5 hours ago, Vaporlocke said:

Barring everyone else getting massive point increases but our units staying the same we're in for a rough time, and even that may not be enough. 

Just putting two Ghorgans in our lists is going to make our opponents pile in in a manner thats going to make them lose efficiency.

Also, some of ehat you said was really reaching. Like, the Bestigors thing. Most things either deploy in 10s or 5s. And if its in 5s and they reinforce the unit then getting hit by Bestigors is worse off for that opponent because now we're threatening a target that has more significance than before. It looks like a Nerf on paper, but we're actually winning out on the exchange.

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