AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Fazhak]

Around this time last year, I posted my Thunderscorn Stormherd list. Since then, I've refined it a bit, as it remains a lot of fun. Not too many expect such a list from a Beasts of Chaos match-up, especially since it seems that the multiple small unit approach, largely centered on Brayherd units, is a more prevalent Beasts of Chaos playstyle.

I'm swapping back and forth between the Ancestral Azyrite Blade and the Lightning-Chained Bracers for my general artefact, as I'm unsure which results consistently in more wounds. For now, I think I like the latter more. A move over the past year was focusing on re-rolls in this list, to nurture consist output. Such is why I moved from equipping the Bullgor unit with Dual Axes rather than Great Axes; re-rolling ones helps make a difference. In fact, the elite monstrous infantry units in this list now all re-roll ones when positioned appropriately and the Bestigors re-roll ones versus Order units. It's a bit of an homage to the old Primal Fury rule from old-school Beastmen, one which also helps during the game.

One of the nice things about this list is that when Wildfire Taurus is successful cast, I can three of more units attack prior to opponent's full response. The general and its accompanying unit of Dragon Ogors charge in one direction with another unit or units charging the target of the endless spell. This lets me have the general strike first before activations, then have its accompanying unit attack as the first activation, while allowing the third unit to attack before its own target gets to respond. This can make a big difference in outcomes, especially if I manage to successfully cast Sundering Blades on the Bullgor unit.

I'm uncertain about which realm is home to this list. I'm partial to Hysh, yet I'm still imagining which realm is best storywise for the list's concept.

So, here's the current list. I look forward to discussing your thoughts!

Allegiance: Beasts of Chaos

Leaders
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (170)
- General
- Command Trait: Lightning-fast Monstrosity
- Artefact: Lightning-chained Bracers
- Lore of Dark Storms: Thunderwave
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (170)
- Artefact: Horn of the Tempest
- Lore of Dark Storms: Sundering Blades
Dragon Ogor Shaggoth (170)
- Lore of Dark Storms: Hailstorm

Battleline
6 x Dragon Ogors (260)
- 6x Draconic War glaives
6 x Dragon Ogors (260)
- 6x Draconic War glaives
3 x Dragon Ogors (130)
- 3x Draconic War glaives

Units
6 x Bullgors (280)
- Pairs of Axes
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Bestigors (120)
10 x Ungor Raiders (80)

Battalions
Thunderscorn Stormherd (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Wildfire Taurus (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 159

[TheArborealWalrus]

On 12/4/2020 at 12:51 PM, Fazhak said:

In fact, the elite monstrous infantry units in this list now all re-roll ones

I personally use the khorne battalion for the same reasons. You won't get the healing, but you can get everything but the shaggoths in it. It would mean another hero though. Up to you. You could switch the raiders for ungors to make up the points from the battalion swap. I'm not sure what their role in the army is. Perhaps their pre-game move is vital to the strategy. With the bulls the trade in rend and damage for re-roll and an additional attack doesn't seem worth it to me, but I rarely get my opponents into the herdstone's range until the game is mostly decided.  I personally am not a fan of the glaives, they do give you the possibility of 2 ranks attacking, but the lesser damage has consistently underperformed when I used them.  Getting to rend 3 is nice, but the only time my glaives felt useful was fighting 1 wound infantry blobs. From experience you can get away with double stacking on a  spell for the shaggoths as their generic one is good too. I often doubled down on sundering blades, but I rather like that spell.(doesn't have to be on dragon ogres either! Anyone is game.) I likewise was a fan of minimum sized squads for board control and bogging my opponents down. *shrug*  I didn't have any smaller infantry in my list though. Drogres had to meat shield it up.

I posted up battle reports on my experiences with a dragon ogre based list on here if you want to check it out. I am curious about the strategy of this list though. It feels a little unfocused. There aren't really clear roles defined by your list. It feels like a rush forwards list but lacks the damage or board control to really pull it off.. It seems like it might be easy to get shut down with the size of a 6 drogre unit's bases. All this being said, 1: I'm facing rather competitive players frequently so mileage will vary. and 2: I love any drogre/big guy based lists. Good to see them getting some use. I wish you luck in your beastly procession!

For Morghur!!!

[Lord Krungharr]

I also tried the Stormherd a long while back, and it was along side a minimum bullgors Brass Despoilers.  I found the stormherd to be the absolute coolest looking battalion ever!   Seriously those models rule, and I’m still hoping we get a plastic Shaggoth someday.

 But they just don’t do the damage any sort of Ogor should do, much less ancient dragonized Ogors.  Maybe in the next tome they’ll get it right.  Minimum 2 dmg per attack and crushers should be 3-4 dmg per whack.   And/or they could get a buff to their saves or ward save from lightning, etc.   Thunderscorn could be the anvil to the Warherd hammer.   

That said they can be fast, real fast, and I would almost favor 1 giant unit to rush forth and jank up enemy movements allowing the rest of the beasts to move up to objectives, etc.    

For my bullgors i always use Brass Despoilers and split between greataxes and axe/shields.  The rerolling all wounds battalion effect is nice too.  

[Fazhak]

Good to hear from you all this holiday season. Thanks for continuing the conversation!

I am happy to report that the list actually does rather well in the current environment. I think that it is the case precisely because the points you raised seem reasonable and my opponents respond according to such critique, yet are unprepared for the combination of Dragon Ogors' resiliency and the movement capabilities of this list. To be clear, I suspect even Thunderscorn and Warherd lists still manifest the main critique against the Beasts of Chaos: the army is built around controlling objectives, not outright combat prowess. I agree with assessment. Yet, what is interesting is that this list can still control objectives albeit in a fashion different from Brayherd or Desolating Beastherd/Brass Despoiler MSU spam. Instead of swamping the battefield with blockers (a tactic I suspect will prove less useful on a post-Sons of Behemat environment), the Dragon Ogors move forward to hold two or so main contested objectives, hopefully holding firm while the Bullgor unit and summoned units pick off either the opponent's crucial characters or, recently more frequently, the opposing battleline. 

Typically, the two x6 Dragon Ogor units move forward to control/contest the middle of the board and its objectives, with each unit teamed with one of the artefact-wielding Shaggoths. I might also or alternatively use these units to tie up particularly frightening opposing forces that I do not want maneuvering freely around the board. The third Dragon Ogor unit stays near the herdstone to be used (and hopefully healed) by the third Shaggoth; after two or so turns of summoning (and hopefully healing), this smaller Dragon unit w/ Shaggoth combo is often used to as a second wave/clean-up force.

The Bullgors are positioned to either go for a character kill, if the opposing force is particularly dependent on characters, or to destroy blobs of infantry. The Bullgors are usually the target of a successfully cast Sundering Blades spell. I find the re-rolls with Dual Blades can make a difference; plus, as noted, I like the homage to old-school Primal Fury rules that this list provides.

The Brayherd units use depends on the opposing force. If confronting an army that is likely to simply surge forward against my forces, I might use the Brayherd as blockers and backfield objective holders. Against character-heavy lists, especially those focused on spellcasting, I might ambush some or all of the Brayherd to disrupt my opponent's backlines. Overall, the benefit to the Brayherd additions to this list are in their flexibility. With them, I have additional options to hopefully complicate my opponent's decision-making process.

The Wildfire Taurus is often used when charges are likely, hopefully in a way that allows one x6 Dragon Ogor w/ Shaggoth combo to attack before their own target can respond, while either Bullgors or the other x6 Dragon Ogor w/ Shaggoth general combo activates first. With the mobility provided by Creatures of the Storm combined with Horn of the Tempest, I can hopefully get the endless spell to impact multiple opposing units, helping increase the likelihood that my own forces get their attacks in before opposing units respond. By the way, I've begun exploring using the Tanglehorn Familiars with my general. While I like the idea of using the more combat-focused artefacts, especially with my Lightning-fast Monstrosity, the ability to cancel a turn of my opponent's spellcasting is compelling, especially in the current environment.

Again, this list is like other Beasts of Chaos lists in that it should not be played with the expectation of going head-to-head with armies built for all-out frontal assaults. Nonetheless, what I think this list does well is playing to the Beasts of Chaos strategy of controlling the board in a way that feels and plays out differently from the more common MSU, Brayherd or Desolating Beastherd/Brass Despoilers builds. While the latter might be a bit more accessible to master, with perhaps a bit less risk involved related to a single turn's outcome swinging the game against the Beasts of Chaos, this list can take a surprising amount of hits and nonetheless remain in the fight.

I hope that helps explain some of the strategy behind the list's structure and how I put its various pieces together to win. Please continue to share your ideas and questions! Thanks again and happy wargaming! 

[Popisdead]

Is no one talking about Slaangor???!?!!!!

 

3W, -2, dmg 2 attacks.  I hope GW updates the Slaanesh Battalion (honestly,. ... just,.. no hope,..) but yeah seems like Slaanesh is next in line for a cult-gor.  The second head looks good enough.  I'm excited.  I just hope they don't price them stupidly.  

[TheArborealWalrus]

10 hours ago, Popisdead said:

3W, -2, dmg 2 attacks

Where did you get the stats from? Last I had seen was the pictures and names. Or is this the stats on the direchasm guy? If it's just 2 attacks with no other profiles, it feels a bit weak. Sitting in an awkward place. Like not bad damage, but not standing out in any real way. With a second okay profile they could do work. I don't remember, but maybe slaanesh needs more rend? If so, they fit the bill.  Regardless I like the idea of Slaangors getting worshiped as avatars of their god. (*insert furry joke here*) Feels in theme with stuff like the pretenders running around. The "snipping off heads" mentioned sounds like some sort of mortal wound output.  I'd guess they're reasonably fast. In the realm of 7-9 inches plus run and charge. By your description they sound like elite relatively durable damage dealers for slaanesh. Like somewhere between chaos warriors and fiends. If I weren't creating a giants army I'd be interested in adding some  of the new slaanesh stuff. I know it was likely a leader, but the picture on the right looked like a slaanbull to me. (referring to the warhammer community page article.) That should be spicy.

Beyond that? Color me excited for fighting new slaanesh! Regardless of their new tricks, They will fall to the true children of chaos!!

For Morghur!!

[Popisdead]

10 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

Where did you get the stats from? Last I had seen was the pictures and names. Or is this the stats on the direchasm guy? If it's just 2 attacks with no other profiles, it feels a bit weak. Sitting in an awkward place. Like not bad damage, but not standing out in any real way. With a second okay profile they could do work. I don't remember, but maybe slaanesh needs more rend? If so, they fit the bill.  Regardless I like the idea of Slaangors getting worshiped as avatars of their god. (*insert furry joke here*) Feels in theme with stuff like the pretenders running around. The "snipping off heads" mentioned sounds like some sort of mortal wound output.  I'd guess they're reasonably fast. In the realm of 7-9 inches plus run and charge. By your description they sound like elite relatively durable damage dealers for slaanesh. Like somewhere between chaos warriors and fiends. If I weren't creating a giants army I'd be interested in adding some  of the new slaanesh stuff. I know it was likely a leader, but the picture on the right looked like a slaanbull to me. (referring to the warhammer community page article.) That should be spicy.

Beyond that? Color me excited for fighting new slaanesh! Regardless of their new tricks, They will fall to the true children of chaos!!

For Morghur!!

The Direcasm AoS warscroll was leaked somehow somewhere?  Maybe it was officialI.  t's all over the Slaanesh thread.  

Basically all the same profile for the warband, then a paragraph saying "the Slakegor has +2W" and his weapons profile was 4A, -2, 2DMG

So I'm assuming the Guilded WEapon and Crushing Claw are Slakeslash as that's how s/he is modelled.  Only issue is no Brayherd style keyword.  I don't know what Tzaanzgors have.  Hmm key Tzaangor have Gor, Brayherd, and Beasts of Chaos.  Guess GW did some shoddy rules writing again.. no surprise.  

Did you guys see the two more slaanesh photos leaked and then from the War Com article yesterday?  Looks almost like a Bullgor for Slaanesh.  that would be amazing....

Edited December 9, 2020 by Popisdead

[TheArborealWalrus]

37 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

 Guess GW did some shoddy rules writing again.. no surprise.  

37 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

 Looks almost like a Bullgor for Slaanesh.  that would be amazing....

While they've made some dogs, I think it's more because we're not supposed to have those mortals rather than us getting to claim them because of 1 slaangor.

Yeah, it was on the hero side of the selection so possibly a doombull of slaanesh. Mighty cool stuff. *sad Khorne noises* We probably won't get any khorngors for quite some time. Although I thought we wouldn't get any slaangors either, so what do I know? Still excited, even if I'm giving the beasts a break. Nice to see the herd expanding.

For Morghur!

[Popisdead]

44 minutes ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

While they've made some dogs, I think it's more because we're not supposed to have those mortals rather than us getting to claim them because of 1 slaangor.

Yeah, it was on the hero side of the selection so possibly a doombull of slaanesh. Mighty cool stuff. *sad Khorne noises* We probably won't get any khorngors for quite some time. Although I thought we wouldn't get any slaangors either, so what do I know? Still excited, even if I'm giving the beasts a break. Nice to see the herd expanding.

For Morghur!

But it is hope long term we do   

I have Khornegors from 6th ed in my army as my Bestigors.  And Pestigors.  Actually,.. I think 8th ed Nurgle 40k fluff/lore had Pestigors.  

There was a list in 6th ed Fantasy that I missed a chance to run which was a Doombull plus spamming 4-5 man Khorne Minotaurs.  ****** load of good attacks plus each unit provided a dispel dice and they were immune to psych being frenzied.  I wish that kind of army still existed.  Although I do have your Khorne list which I really like and mean to try it when covid lifts.  

[Myrdin]

Hmm and he still has 4+ to hit... Yeah you would expect if any other Beastmen would be better at hitting it would be the Slaanesh marked ones...

Honestly thats not a horrible profile, but its just one dude. While cool and all, unless I see some major shift in keywords or a box of Slaangors (ala Tzaangors style) usable by Slaanesh and BoC both, I am not getting my hopes up. It would be nice, but GW has F* over this army specifically so many times already that I just dont care until its set in stone.

Yes STILL salty about the Warcry monsters not being allowed into Beastmen Herds. I cant even T___T

Edited December 10, 2020 by Myrdin

[Maddpainting]

On 12/8/2020 at 2:25 PM, Popisdead said:

Is no one talking about Slaangor???!?!!!!

 

3W, -2, dmg 2 attacks.  I hope GW updates the Slaanesh Battalion (honestly,. ... just,.. no hope,..) but yeah seems like Slaanesh is next in line for a cult-gor.  The second head looks good enough.  I'm excited.  I just hope they don't price them stupidly.  

They have not come out yet for us have they? There is no BoC ones yet right?

[TheArborealWalrus]

1 hour ago, Maddpainting said:

They have not come out yet for us have they? There is no BoC ones yet right?

No, the models are merely confirmed to exist. We do have the direchasm slaangor to extrapolate the profile from however. Also a picture of some slaanesh beastman hero in war cry. Unsure if it will be a full hero model. Probably not on account of the existing warbands not including any. (that I know of)

16 hours ago, Myrdin said:

Yes STILL salty about the Warcry monsters

I get it. They're monsters of chaos without the keyword so we can't even ally them in. Tis sad. There is a fundamental design difference however. The warcry bands are designed to supplement the slaves to darkness. I think it was an oversight, but you'd think they'd have faq'ed it by now.  *shrug* Tzaangors were supplementing the arcanites until they updated our book and set the precedent that they also belong to us. The slaangor will be supplementing us as well. Unless of course the world loses its mind again. (Always a possibility) 

It is a touch odd for them to hit on 4s, but perhaps there is some buff that would have  been too powerful on 3s. They'll likely be pretty good damage dealers for slaanesh. A good alternative to minotaurs ... probably

Cheers, For Morhgur!

[Enoby]

5 hours ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

No, the models are merely confirmed to exist. We do have the direchasm slaangor to extrapolate the profile from however. Also a picture of some slaanesh beastman hero in war cry. Unsure if it will be a full hero model. Probably not on account of the existing warbands not including any. (that I know of)

I get it. They're monsters of chaos without the keyword so we can't even ally them in. Tis sad. There is a fundamental design difference however. The warcry bands are designed to supplement the slaves to darkness. I think it was an oversight, but you'd think they'd have faq'ed it by now.  *shrug* Tzaangors were supplementing the arcanites until they updated our book and set the precedent that they also belong to us. The slaangor will be supplementing us as well. Unless of course the world loses its mind again. (Always a possibility) 

It is a touch odd for them to hit on 4s, but perhaps there is some buff that would have  been too powerful on 3s. They'll likely be pretty good damage dealers for slaanesh. A good alternative to minotaurs ... probably

Cheers, For Morhgur!

Sometimes the Underworld warband profiles are ever so slightly weaker than the normal profiles. For example, the cursed blade of a normal Kairic Acolyte is 1/4/3/-/1, whereas the warband Acolyte is 1/4/4-/1

 

Usually they're about the same, but not always - and there's a very good chance they've left warscroll abilities off 

[Homer72]

On 12/9/2020 at 8:07 PM, Popisdead said:

But it is hope long term we do   

I have Khornegors from 6th ed in my army as my Bestigors.  And Pestigors.  Actually,.. I think 8th ed Nurgle 40k fluff/lore had Pestigors.  

There was a list in 6th ed Fantasy that I missed a chance to run which was a Doombull plus spamming 4-5 man Khorne Minotaurs.  ****** load of good attacks plus each unit provided a dispel dice and they were immune to psych being frenzied.  I wish that kind of army still existed.  Although I do have your Khorne list which I really like and mean to try it when covid lifts.  

Do you have any photos of your Pestigors? I will try to make some conversions from gors and blightkings

sprues. I need some inspiration

 

[Maddpainting]

Well until I hear something about Slaangors in BoC i'm not going to talk about it lol. I mean its really cool but I like my Brayherd.

[The Red King]

I may not be able to dive into a full army financially any time soon but I did get a single Zealot Miniatures Minotaur to make a concept piece for a Brass Despoilers army. Here is my Doombull Taurok Goredrenched

[Myrdin]

He looks very nice!
I`ve been thinking about getting one or two of the Zaelot miniatures bulls myself as I am not satisfied with my current DB stand in and lately I dont have the energy nor motivation to convert one from the Ogre Thaumaturge mini.

[The Red King]

7 minutes ago, Myrdin said:

He looks very nice!
I`ve been thinking about getting one or two of the Zaelot miniatures bulls myself as I am not satisfied with my current DB stand in and lately I dont have the energy nor motivation to convert one from the Ogre Thaumaturge mini.

The only reason I would ever not recommend them is because I don't want them to run out of stock lol.

 

Their was negligible flash to be cleaned and no miscast, bubbles, or warping. The model fit together with no work on my part with only two small gaps that almost entirely covered with paint.

[decker_cky]

On 11/30/2020 at 11:55 AM, Chaos Shepard said:

Generating Primordial Call points in low point games isn't as broken as it first sounds. In a 2000 point game you can have 10 ungors and a Shaman sit on the herd stone and play the game with little issue. !n a 500 pt game those Shaman and Ungors are over a quarter of your army. (Your might be better off with having a Doombull stabbing itself but that's still one fifth of your army.)  Ultimately, while you will be able to generate the same numbers through summoning you will have a significantly weaker early game.

In a low point game you should definitely have the doombull at the herdstone punching himself in the face. 

[decker_cky]

On 11/30/2020 at 11:55 AM, Chaos Shepard said:

Generating Primordial Call points in low point games isn't as broken as it first sounds. In a 2000 point game you can have 10 ungors and a Shaman sit on the herd stone and play the game with little issue. !n a 500 pt game those Shaman and Ungors are over a quarter of your army. (Your might be better off with having a Doombull stabbing itself but that's still one fifth of your army.)  Ultimately, while you will be able to generate the same numbers through summoning you will have a significantly weaker early game.

In a low point game you should definitely have the doombull at the herdstone punching himself in the face. 

[Myrdin]

So... gentlemen I am surprised there was no discussion about the new Hedonites and the full unit of Slaangor Fiendbloods.

I said before > I wont get hyped unless there is a whole unit with BoC compatible keyword. So far the first part is real the second not yet confirmed but if they are going the Tzaangor route then maybe we might see them included in our armies. No character yet shown so far, but I hope they will have one Slaangor commander of their own, to mirror the Tzan Shaman.

Now this actually does give me some hope that we might indeed see Khorngors and Pestigors in the future as well.  The whole Slaanesh release was kinda random though since its not that long this armybook was released (in its broken OP state). I wonder if the reason for such a swift re-release was to fix the issues with the army without FAQ as well as bolster the sales of the new models.

Anyway here is the whole unit:

Never was a fan of the whole Pincer thing they started pushing for Slaanesh, so IF we can have them I think I`ll have to work around that and get them fitted out with something else. But with those proportions it will be kinda hard to replace them with fitting bits. Hope there are some other customizable options in the box. A hand with weapon like the unit leader has for example.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Myrdin

[The Red King]

I wont lie, the direchasm slaangor got me excited but somehow these 3 despite being the same thing as him are all a bit... uglier? I mean that's just my opinion but these guys certainly don't make me regret picking khorne for my beasts. Still I hope they make it to the regular beasts book (it would be utterly ridiculous if they didnt) in case I wanna do an undivided thing sometime.

[Maddpainting]

I was thinking of using them for a unit of Slaanesh Bullgors. I have very little intreset to use them even if they have the Beast of Chaos Keyword, i like our book, i like gors and such, i want to play with our aesthetics. This is the 2nd update Slaanesh has gotten and a new book, which GW would give updates to other factions.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Maddpainting

[Ganigumo]

1 hour ago, Myrdin said:

So... gentlemen I am surprised there was no discussion about the new Hedonites and the full unit of Slaangor Fiendbloods.

I said before > I wont get hyped unless there is a whole unit with BoC compatible keyword. So far the first part is real the second not yet confirmed but if they are going the Tzaangor route then maybe we might see them included in our armies. No character yet shown so far, but I hope they will have one Slaangor commander of their own, to mirror the Tzan Shaman.

Now this actually does give me some hope that we might indeed see Khorngors and Pestigors in the future as well.  The whole Slaanesh release was kinda random though since its not that long this armybook was released (in its broken OP state). I wonder if the reason for such a swift re-release was to fix the issues with the army without FAQ as well as bolster the sales of the new models.

Anyway here is the whole unit:

Never was a fan of the whole Pincer thing they started pushing for Slaanesh, so IF we can have them I think I`ll have to work around that and get them fitted out with something else. But with those proportions it will be kinda hard to replace them with fitting bits. Hope there are some other customizable options in the box. A hand with weapon like the unit leader has for example.

Slaanesh getting a new book is probably partly because the first one was gutted so hard, and all the new models. The old one was almost exclusively daemons too, to tie in with the wrath and rapture box and the new daemon models.

Based on what was shown and the new warcry books the leader slaangor looks to just be the unit captain, and not a separate model. Unless there is a slaangor charioteer hero (cool but i doubt it) it looks like there may be no new hero. That being said they probably just synergize with "Sybarite" stuff in slaanesh and will get either the brayherd or warherd keyword (tzaangors got brayherd).

I'm looking forward to these guys quite a bit myself. 

[Myrdin]

3 hours ago, The Red King said:

I wont lie, the direchasm slaangor got me excited but somehow these 3 despite being the same thing as him are all a bit... uglier? I mean that's just my opinion but these guys certainly don't make me regret picking khorne for my beasts. Still I hope they make it to the regular beasts book (it would be utterly ridiculous if they didnt) in case I wanna do an undivided thing sometime.

I feel ya. They are kinda... lacking ? Dissapointing ? I mean so much could have been done, and when I saw these my first thought was "these are really kinda ugly and bland.  The sculpt is also gonna be hard to customize. Thats gonna need a LOT of effort and greenstuff to pull of anything decent".

Edited December 27, 2020 by Myrdin