AoS 2 - Beasts of Chaos Discussion

[Ganigumo]

@Maddpainting The issue with making them hit harder, but not as hard as bestigors will end up with them being directly compared to bestigors instead of ungors like they are currently. In order to not cause problems for one of the three units (ungors, gors, bestigors) each one needs a distinct role and specialty. If you rewrote the bestigor scroll as well you could make it work, by tuning up bestigor damage and increasing their points to match, but the space between ungors and bestigors is actually very small. Base size plays a huge part of this too, since 25mm is under an inch spear ungors can attack in 3 "ranks". With your suggestion a 20 man unit could get 60 attacks, but if ~10 get into combat you would get 30 attacks ~7-12 wounds.  while a 30 man unit of ungors could also get 30 attacks ~4-9 wounds, a 10 man unit of bestigors would get ~5-9 wounds, or 7-12 if they charged. 

Its just not reasonable to fit 3 units in that space at the moment, and its healthier for the book to find a distinct role for each one so we don't end up in a situation where the decision is mostly arbitrary. 

[Derptau]

7 minutes ago, Ganigumo said:

@Maddpainting The issue with making them hit harder, but not as hard as bestigors will end up with them being directly compared to bestigors instead of ungors like they are currently. In order to not cause problems for one of the three units (ungors, gors, bestigors) each one needs a distinct role and specialty. If you rewrote the bestigor scroll as well you could make it work, by tuning up bestigor damage and increasing their points to match, but the space between ungors and bestigors is actually very small. Base size plays a huge part of this too, since 25mm is under an inch spear ungors can attack in 3 "ranks". With your suggestion a 20 man unit could get 60 attacks, but if ~10 get into combat you would get 30 attacks ~7-12 wounds.  while a 30 man unit of ungors could also get 30 attacks ~4-9 wounds, a 10 man unit of bestigors would get ~5-9 wounds, or 7-12 if they charged. 

Its just not reasonable to fit 3 units in that space at the moment, and its healthier for the book to find a distinct role for each one so we don't end up in a situation where the decision is mostly arbitrary. 

I agree with the first part on the disparity that needs to happen with the gors vs bestigors. I don't think the bestigor need to actually get any better though. I think if Gors just had 2 attacks base and wounded on 3s instead of 4s that would be perfect. It would show more strength, it would also make them have a little more edge than the ungor and the capability to get a bit crazy with buffs. Keeping them hitting on 4s with no rending makes them stay cheap and keeps them out of the bestigor roles, but then they have just a bit more teeth. For me the reason I don't field them en masse is the low amounts of attacks and 4+ to wound. Unless I'm getting a cavalcade of spells off they're just not going to do much at all. 

Giving them a little bit more dependability (for beasts at least) would go a long way.

[Salyx]

I would rather differentiate like Fyreslayers. Gors could be like Vulkite Berserkers and Bestigor like  Heartguard Berserkers.

So Gors with Shields have a better save, Gors with Double Hand Weapons can reroll hits,  whereas the Bestigor could have a way of dealing Mortal Wounds (perhaps on 6s to hit?) and  hit on 3s. The most important: 2 Wounds each,  Of course this would include a points rise,something like 100/270 for Gor and  160/450 for Bestigor. The Ungor stay the way they are, 1 wound cheapish infantry.

[The Red King]

So I need some help ironing out a basic list so I can slowly buy the needed bits and I can't decide quite how to finish it off.

 

Allegiance: Khorne
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Grashrak Fellhoof (140)
- Allies
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Banner of Khorne (Artefact): Banner of Blood
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Doombull of Khorne (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Disciple of Khorne
- Artefact: Incandescent Rageblade
10 x Gors of Khorne (70)
10 x Gors of Khorne (70)
10 x Gors of Khorne (70)
5 x Grashrak's Despoilers (0)
- Allies
6 x Bullgors of Khorne (280)
10 x Bestigors of Khorne (120)
10 x Bestigors of Khorne (120)
10 x Bestigors of Khorne (120)
Ghorgon of Khorne (160)
Ghorgon of Khorne (160)
Brass Despoilers (180)

Total: 1810 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 140 / 400
Wounds: 146
 

So I THINK with the last 190 points I want to take 3 individual tuskgor chariots because they arent bad themselves, they allow for some mobility towards objectives, they make proccing the Khorne batallion buff easier and they are worth quick blood tithes points.

 

Alternatively there is a plethora of options in 190 points. Anything from more bullgors+CP, wrathmongers(for extra attack)+CP, extra bloodesecrator+beastlord or bloodesecrator+CP+dirgehorn etc. Etc. I think I want to try to stick as close to Beasts as possible rather than branching too much more into Khorne but also if I'm gonna run in blades I might as well take advantage of those prayers right? I'm really quite uncertain about it all and any help would be appreciated.

[Ganigumo]

@Derptau In the current state Gors' only use is that they are slightly more durable than ungors in 10 man units (but its pretty negligible). For any other purpose ungors are better, since they have a 25mm base and will get more attacks. The current issue with gors is that they fail to differentiate themselves from Ungor in any meaningful way, and have 32mm bases instead of 25mm.

Upping their offense to be bestigors without rend will put them in the same position except with bestigors, being worse but cheaper, but still being more expensive than ungors, that can still put out similar damage due to their 25mm bases, and take better to buffs (+1 attack on a unit of 40 ungors is probably an extra 30 attacks, +1 attack on a unit of 30 gors is probably 10 attacks). 

You could push them as a bestigor alternative, with tons of no rend attacks in a small area, sort of like khorne bloodreavers without rend, but they would end up as a bestigor alternative, not something that has its own role.

Gors really need to just be pushed in a new direction so there's a reason to run them alongside ungor and bestigor. Making them defensive (change the horde bonus to reroll saves or penalties to be hit), making them faster (horde bonus to speed),  make them support ungor somehow, give them an interesting warscroll ability, etc. 

@Salyx 2 wound gor/bestigor would make sense, but gors might still be stuck in a wierd spot unless they become more efficient than ungor.

[Chaos Shepard]

I too think Gors/Bestigors should go to 2 wound but I think they should then get minus 1 to their save as a trade off. You would probably still have to increase their point cost but not by as much. I still kind of want them to be a hoard unit.

[Ganigumo]

3 hours ago, The Red King said:

So I need some help ironing out a basic list so I can slowly buy the needed bits and I can't decide quite how to finish it off.

 

Allegiance: Khorne
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Grashrak Fellhoof (140)
- Allies
Bloodsecrator (120)
- Banner of Khorne (Artefact): Banner of Blood
Slaughterpriest (100)
- Blood Blessing: Killing Frenzy
Doombull of Khorne (100)
- General
- Command Trait: Disciple of Khorne
- Artefact: Incandescent Rageblade
10 x Gors of Khorne (70)
10 x Gors of Khorne (70)
10 x Gors of Khorne (70)
5 x Grashrak's Despoilers (0)
- Allies
6 x Bullgors of Khorne (280)
10 x Bestigors of Khorne (120)
10 x Bestigors of Khorne (120)
10 x Bestigors of Khorne (120)
Ghorgon of Khorne (160)
Ghorgon of Khorne (160)
Brass Despoilers (180)

Total: 1810 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 140 / 400
Wounds: 146
 

So I THINK with the last 190 points I want to take 3 individual tuskgor chariots because they arent bad themselves, they allow for some mobility towards objectives, they make proccing the Khorne batallion buff easier and they are worth quick blood tithes points.

 

Alternatively there is a plethora of options in 190 points. Anything from more bullgors+CP, wrathmongers(for extra attack)+CP, extra bloodesecrator+beastlord or bloodesecrator+CP+dirgehorn etc. Etc. I think I want to try to stick as close to Beasts as possible rather than branching too much more into Khorne but also if I'm gonna run in blades I might as well take advantage of those prayers right? I'm really quite uncertain about it all and any help would be appreciated.

Something to watch out for is that bloodsecrators will force you to reroll successful casts on Grashrak, slaughterpriests and bloodsecrators are both really strong pieces though, especially for their points.
The chariots might work well here, since they're quick and can help trigger the brass despoilers' effect too.

There's a few decent subfaction options, even for a BoC player too, Beasts of Chaos units don't actually qualify for any of the command traits or artifacts in the book (due to not having bloodbound or mortal keywords). Bloodlords gives a command trait to make the hero go really fast and the artifact lets you fight first, Goretide gives a command trait for +1 damage(could be strong on a beastlord's 6 attacks) and an ethereal amulet clone, skullfiends give a command trait for double blood tithe if your general slays a hero and an artifact for +2 attacks for one weapon (great on a doombull).

[The Red King]

Oops yeah I screwed up in thinking bloodhound was the army keyword but the doombull gained the "Khorne" keyword not "bloodbound" yeah I'll probably just change over to skullfiend then for the artifact and trait on the doombull. Really just trades exploding 6's for extra blood tithe points which can be better anyway since I can spend BT on exploding 6's. I just hope in khorne next book it isnt so that beasts just can not benefit from any of the khorne command traits and such.

 

As for the casting, I noticed that which is why I really pushed away from an endless spell. Honestly I might just drop grashrak to a GBS and grab an extra CP but I really like the +3 movement buff that they give out even if they dont manage to cast anything. Grashrak is just slightly more survivable with his retinue and if his spell does happen to go off than that's one more layer of +1 to hit redundancy.

 

I'm happy to see my calculations werent just wildly off though. I've been reading everything I can find but it's all fairly old what with Covid and the age of the books. Wasnt sure if there had been any big change in perception that I missed.

[Popisdead]

On 11/1/2020 at 10:38 AM, Lord Krungharr said:

Anyone know or read rumors if the Broken Realms thing will give our BoC any goodies or updates at all?  I’ve read many ppl thinking that every faction will get something.   Apparently even Cities of Sigmar got two new cities?!?!  We’re gonna need something to help us tear down even more civilizations 😁

I've been playing this army since 2003.  What historically happens is GW S***s the bed with the book, then after a couple years fixes it with some form of chaos marks, (7th ed, end times, etc) then releases something drastically new.  Beastmen had marks for I think... 6 months and the Herdstone saw a huge influx of players then AoS happened.  Had they done marks 5 years before the army would have seen double the sales which,.. well IMO the army has always sold well and GW has always done a botched job on them rules wise.  

On 10/29/2020 at 4:59 PM, Maddpainting said:

My first game vs Lumineth was a month or so ago, i wanted to give him all the chances to play with all his stuff so I took double Warheard list, 2 Cygors, 2 Ghorgons, and lots of Bullgors with 2 Doombulls. This gave him 2 turns (unless double) to fix mistakes, etc.. 

The 4 Denys and MW's chances from the Cygors actually did a lot of work, even though he had  a +1 to cast (I deny only the units not Tect b.c yeah....) I was denying at least once a turn and sometimes twice, I ended up with 9 denys in total. Turn 2 I deny 3 (the best turn it could roll the best for me) killing 3 of their Archers was huge, b.c thats 3 more chances of no MW's.

I can see this helping vs DoT too as they are not very good vs Single man units and the Denys can help.

Interesting to hear.  

On 10/29/2020 at 4:01 PM, TheArborealWalrus said:

Perhaps I should have said, I had played goat spam and got bored, 

It isn't a very exciting mechanic to play.  180 infantry that just die slowly.  Granted it matches the novels..  sigh.  It also detracts from people wanting to have fully and nicely painted armies.  I'm struggling to finish the last 15 of 120 ungors to paint.  Because,.. why,.. .. ugh.

4 hours ago, The Red King said:

So I need some help ironing out a basic list so I can slowly buy the needed bits and I can't decide quite how to finish it off.

The ArborealWalrus in the Blades of Khorne thread did something sort of similar?  I would recommend going and finding his list (use the user search functions) and seeing how to start out then adapt that to what you're trying to accomplish.  It's what I did.  I like netlists cause it helps me start with something and gives me good places to then go and adapt.  Sometimes netlisting isn't strictly "oh you took that 5-0 list and tried to duplicate it's success".  Tuskgor Chariots are good in Khorne.  

[The Red King]

Thanks. I'll do just that.

[TheArborealWalrus]

4 hours ago, The Red King said:

So I THINK with the last 190 points

So, I thought I should explain something, since you're using Khorne allegiance, Grashnak would be the ally, not the Khorne units. Not a big distinction, but  vaguely important. Also, like what Popisdead said, You have not 1, but 2 sources of negative spell casting, both of which are vital to the Khorne allegiance's success. So spells are very difficult to cast now that we don't get to "turn on" the portal.  As for the 190pts, slaughterpriests are some of your only ranged options (without needing line of sight too) and can boost stuff.  Screening is extremely important for Khorne which is a counter charge army (mostly). The final form (for now) of my beasts of Khorne list had 2 layers of chaff. It also had 8 drops,  so yeah. Fast movers help too. Centigors or chariots are both good choices, although one is faster vs hittier. I love wrathmongers, but they up your drops drastically.

Something important to know, is that none of the command traits and artifacts can be taken by beasts heroes with the sole exceptions of those in your slaughterhost. So picking your slaughterhost is picking what artifact/command trait you get more than anything else. That's why I went with Skullfiends. +2 attacks on the doombull isn't bad. Plus the mortals get the same thing as the battalion ability, meaning I have to remember less stuff! That being said, pick whatever you feel helps you most.

My general philosophy with my Khorne is very similar to Beasts. Chaff them up then hit them with hammers. While the 6 man block of bulls is good for deathstar buffing, they're an easy target for shooting. If your opponents don't know about the danger of buffed up bulls, then they will soon. Even a little shooting will potentially cripple a bull unit. Bestigors are good, but usually outrun your buffing units, especially wrathmongers. Remember to activate the battalion ability in the hero phase to get those sweet sweet re-rolls to wound. I've made more in depth looks at beast units and slaughterhost interactions in the Khorne allegiance elsewhere, and don't really want to go over them again. Popisdead is once again right, I'd say go look for those posts in the Khorne allegiance. Others might have talked about it since I moved here, but  I doubt it. The Khorne forum loves it's bloodthirsters. To be fair they're beautiful models. Regardless, I wish you luck!

5 hours ago, Derptau said:

I agree with the first part on the disparity that needs to happen with the gors vs bestigors.

4 hours ago, Salyx said:

I would rather differentiate like Fyreslayers

So I've done other "What should be done with the army posts, but I've got a new idea. Brayherd are already fast right? What if the distinction was this? 

Gors get 2 attacks and wound on 3s, re-roll to hit rolls with 2 weapons(because re-rolling 1s is mostly worthless vs +1 save option) and flat +1 save with shields. They and the rest of the smaller brayherd get faster. Maybe it's a 7" move and the command stuff boosts it too, Like banner does +1 run and charge, or maybe just +1 movement. The horn is run and charge (I'd like to throw another +1 in, but that'd be too much for one item) They keep the 1 wound and are more kamikaze berserkers then trash chaff. The bestigor instead of the move buffs get More front line infantry buffs from their command. Still run and charge horns, but the banner does bravery stuff or otherwise boosts them as brayherd hitters. They'd be the brayherd hammers. Fast enough to keep up, but hit like a motorized kart. Maybe hit on 3s? Make them in line with almost every other elite infantry? Of course points shifts, but that's not what I'm here to babble about.

I would personally not want to be a fyreslayer clone. Even if we're infinitely faster, I think that would make us OP. Fast fyreslayers? Terrifying. Bestigor need to keep their 4+ saves I'd say. They're squishy enough with just that. I'm personally against 2 wound gors, but tzaangors set a strange precedent. We have ostensibly the same type of models with different wound characteristics. It would help to differentiate them from ungors though. All in all, we're in a weird place. It will be interesting to see what GW does with us in the campaign supplement.

Good luck to us all, and may the great devolver bless us!

For Morghur!

[TheArborealWalrus]

 I took a variant of my more normal/numerous beasts list against the giants.  I forget the mission but there were 4 objectives the opponent's are worth 3 and yours are 1. I had an artifact that I forgot about. Oops.

Spoiler

 

My list: 2000pts gavespawn, 4 drops. Is this optimal? No. I don't have enough ungors for the 180 or whatever super chaff list. Would that have done better? Probably, but you'll see  the issues in a bit. The cygor was there because I had just painted him and little other reason then I wanted more unbinds in a "general purpose" list.

- Marauding brayherd

beastlord - general - mutating gnarlblade

2x brayshamans - the terrain exploder and -1 to save spells.

2x10 bestigors

1x3 bullgors - greatweapons

1x30 gors - shields

1x30 ungor raiders

2x10 ungor raiders

3x10 ungors - blades

cygor

- 2x5 centigor

- chaos spawn

wildfire tauros + command point

 

Spoiler

 

My opponent's list: 1990pts of Warstomper tribe

Warstomper Mega gargant - general, re-roll saves artifact

2x3 mancrusher gargants

3x1 mancrusher gargants

 

Set up: There was a hill on either side of our diagonal deployment creating a canyon esque thing in the center.  A forest sat on both our sides and there was a small ruin on my center. I put the herdstone on the line with the attendent sacrifices and shaman The smaller raider units made a screen with an ungor unit and the cygor on the line. Behind them on the center right were the bestigor units and the second shaman. On the left was the bulls and the center had the beastlord with spawn. The big 30 blocks and an ungor unit ambushed. He put single giants on both his objectives and left the other on the right. The mass of the army stared us down the "canyon" My raiders pushed up the wall a little bit.

Turn 1: I decided that I wanted them to get in range of my spells and herdstone aura and had him go first. He used 2 command points and had the 6 mancrushers run 6 and re-roll charges. The singles stayed put. Even the one not on an objective. He charged straight down the center and smashed into my line. 10 raiders and the sacrificial ungors died with 11 wounds on the cygor. For those who don't know warstomper tribes get +1 damage against 10 or more model units and + 2 damage against 20 or more models. Uh oh. In return we did 2 wounds. My turn I moved the right chaff with a bestigor block to grab the right objective. The other bestigors went for the right hand giant group. The bulls went for the other and both giant units got hit with the tauros. My opponent was bemoaning his recklessness at this point. I dropped both 30 bricks on the left to take that objective. The raiders did 9 of 12 wounds to the giant and 3 were taken from the right hand one. We charged the invaders and I spent my command points giving the bestigor + 1 attack and re-roll 1s. The lord got the other + 1 attack.  (the bulls were out of range) The bulls whiffed and did 5 wounds to the giants. The bestigor felled 1 while the beast lord killed another. In return the bestigor and bulls died. 

Turn 2: My opponent won the roll off and went. I was pretty much dead at this point. The giants (except the unmolested one moved in on the nearest units. The 3 block grabbed my objective by the herdstone. Rocks did 3 wounds to my beast lord. The ungor raiders were charged by their heavily wounded prey and the chaff surrounding my right all died. (10 raiders and 10 ungor). The 30 raiders were wiped out by the heavily wounded giant.(in battleshock) Granted he rolled a little hot, but oof. He killed 19 of  them for 2 wounds from the shivs. My beastlord dispatched the last giant from the unit only to be ascended by his falling corpse. (he died) My turn I took his objective and killed the 1 wound giant. Hoping to criple it I charged the mega gargant and did ... 10 wounds. Not terrible, but nowhere good enough. I didn't even bracket him. He wiped the bestigor and the centigor that tried to help and we called it. I had no physical way of killing him off my objective while 1 giant could sweep my 30 gors off of his. Nevermind his mega which could have gone back to take it. I made some mistakes but I definitely need more heavy hitting in this list. Alas I wanted bestigor and the gor herd. Oh well. I think I could have done it against a different tribe that didn't specialize in horde breaking. At the end I had 29 gor, 10 summoned ungor, 5 centigor, 2 shamans, 2 chaos spawn and a 1 wound cygor. Not gone, but nothing that could do the 12 wounds needed to take an objective from him. Against another army I could have still pulled out a win, but not here. Back to the crazed white board.

I hope you fund this informative, For Morghur!

[The Red King]

1 hour ago, TheArborealWalrus said:

So, I thought I should explain something, since you're using Khorne allegiance, Grashnak would be the ally, not the Khorne units. Not a big distinction, but  vaguely important. Also, like what Popisdead said, You have not 1, but 2 sources of negative spell casting, both of which are vital to the Khorne allegiance's success. So spells are very difficult to cast now that we don't get to "turn on" the portal.  As for the 190pts, slaughterpriests are some of your only ranged options (without needing line of sight too) and can boost stuff.  Screening is extremely important for Khorne which is a counter charge army (mostly). The final form (for now) of my beasts of Khorne list had 2 layers of chaff. It also had 8 drops,  so yeah. Fast movers help too. Centigors or chariots are both good choices, although one is faster vs hittier. I love wrathmongers, but they up your drops drastically.

Something important to know, is that none of the command traits and artifacts can be taken by beasts heroes with the sole exceptions of those in your slaughterhost. So picking your slaughterhost is picking what artifact/command trait you get more than anything else. That's why I went with Skullfiends. +2 attacks on the doombull isn't bad. Plus the mortals get the same thing as the battalion ability, meaning I have to remember less stuff! That being said, pick whatever you feel helps you most.

My general philosophy with my Khorne is very similar to Beasts. Chaff them up then hit them with hammers. While the 6 man block of bulls is good for deathstar buffing, they're an easy target for shooting. If your opponents don't know about the danger of buffed up bulls, then they will soon. Even a little shooting will potentially cripple a bull unit. Bestigors are good, but usually outrun your buffing units, especially wrathmongers. Remember to activate the battalion ability in the hero phase to get those sweet sweet re-rolls to wound. I've made more in depth looks at beast units and slaughterhost interactions in the Khorne allegiance elsewhere, and don't really want to go over them again. Popisdead is once again right, I'd say go look for those posts in the Khorne allegiance. Others might have talked about it since I moved here, but  I doubt it. The Khorne forum loves it's bloodthirsters. To be fair they're beautiful models. Regardless, I wish you luck!

So I've done other "What should be done with the army posts, but I've got a new idea. Brayherd are already fast right? What if the distinction was this? 

Gors get 2 attacks and wound on 3s, re-roll to hit rolls with 2 weapons(because re-rolling 1s is mostly worthless vs +1 save option) and flat +1 save with shields. They and the rest of the smaller brayherd get faster. Maybe it's a 7" move and the command stuff boosts it too, Like banner does +1 run and charge, or maybe just +1 movement. The horn is run and charge (I'd like to throw another +1 in, but that'd be too much for one item) They keep the 1 wound and are more kamikaze berserkers then trash chaff. The bestigor instead of the move buffs get More front line infantry buffs from their command. Still run and charge horns, but the banner does bravery stuff or otherwise boosts them as brayherd hitters. They'd be the brayherd hammers. Fast enough to keep up, but hit like a motorized kart. Maybe hit on 3s? Make them in line with almost every other elite infantry? Of course points shifts, but that's not what I'm here to babble about.

I would personally not want to be a fyreslayer clone. Even if we're infinitely faster, I think that would make us OP. Fast fyreslayers? Terrifying. Bestigor need to keep their 4+ saves I'd say. They're squishy enough with just that. I'm personally against 2 wound gors, but tzaangors set a strange precedent. We have ostensibly the same type of models with different wound characteristics. It would help to differentiate them from ungors though. All in all, we're in a weird place. It will be interesting to see what GW does with us in the campaign supplement.

Good luck to us all, and may the great devolver bless us!

For Morghur!

My bad I didn't realize I hadn't replied. Idk what I clicked or said to the contrary but I know the allies bit. Thanks for clarifying either way. 

I don't really expect my caster to cast anything so I guess it ultimately comes down to whether I want the +3move and a dispel or the extra prayer and I admit I am starting to lean towards the second bloodsecrator+CP but I may try it both ways or vary it depending on the local meta.

I appreciate the insight and I don't expect you to dig it up for me but on mobile searching for your name and Khorne only brought up Beasts topics so maybe I did something wrong (I dont usually use the search function. I'll sort it out.)

On the last thing you said though I am struck by how tall the cygor are and wonder if they couldnt be converted to be beastmen bloodthirsters. Maybe even do some conversion work to make them work as either (magnets and such). 

[Magnus The Blue]

11 hours ago, The Red King said:

On the last thing you said though I am struck by how tall the cygor are and wonder if they couldnt be converted to be beastmen bloodthirsters. Maybe even do some conversion work to make them work as either (magnets and such). 

Love the idea of a 'Ghor-Thirster' or should that be Gore-Thirster.  Would need a big set of wings to get that giant cow in the air, maybe Chimera ones?

[Maddpainting]

I converted 2 of mine into KoS's lol, they are size fine for Thirsters.

[The Red King]

Thanks for verifying that size comparison. I noticed they were the same base size (but not skarbrand?) And variety in lists without having to buy more models is always good.

[Maddpainting]

The Thirsters body is smaller in mass though, but height is about right. It doesn't matter tomuhc for AoS that the body mass is different, just if you wan it to look more like it. Thirsters bodies (torso and legs) are actually kind of small, the shoulders, head, and wings are what is big, on top of its on a raised pose.

[Maddpainting]

Lets do some predictions, new books are coming out redoing some warcrolls and brining battalions as well. 

What do you think GW will do to us? 

Here is a link to some info about it https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/02/broken-realms-rise-of-the-shadow-queen/

[Myrdin]

I hope we dont get a new book for a good while.... We`ve always been amongst the first armies to come out and it NEVER worked out for us. Always half assed rules, and conflicting warscroll. Gimmick battalions and un usable artifacts.

I would prefer much for the filth and confusion of new edition releases to first filter out properly, and this time let some other armies be the lab rats before we are introduced into the fray. At least once in my 10 years of collecting this army I would like to get the treatment some of the more popular armies are getting. Just once. Some new models to replace the ancient miniatures we still have (Shaggoth, Beastlord, Centigors, Razorgor....). Nice thick, packed battle tome with SOLID rules, GOOD warscrols where each unit has some potential on the field and is not ignored for better options. FUN synergy between the units and the army abilities and allegiances, etc etc. As long as we are not within the first 5 new releases we should be fine, maybe, possibly....

Edited November 5, 2020 by Myrdin

[Maddpainting]

Im not talking about a new battletome. I'm talking about a section in the new Broken Realm books.

If you have not seen it yet, they are pick 2-4 armies and updating the story a bit, rewriting some warscrolls, and adding battalions. 

Here is warhammer community for example of new rules that are coming in this first book of some new books https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/11/03/broken-realms-new-rules/

So 4-6 units gain more rules or new warscrolls, and a battalion is looking like the norm.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Maddpainting

[Ganigumo]

6 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

Lets do some predictions, new books are coming out redoing some warcrolls and brining battalions as well. 

What do you think GW will do to us? 

Predictions:
Slaangor (tying in with the mortal hedonites but also working in beasts of chaos)
Updated depraved drove (or a new slaanesh battalion that fits slaangors in)

new warscrolls for Dragon Ogors, Gors, Cygor, Ghorgon edit: After looking at the chariot warscroll I think that will probably get a rewrite too, so that it has actual impact hits on the charge

new subfactions, either 3 (brayherd, warherd, thunderscorn) or 2 (Monsters & a speed focused one think centigors and chariots)

Speculation:
Kurnothi vs Beasts of chaos box, not sure what it will contain, could go any way of thunderscorn with a new shaggoth, warherds with a new doombull, or brayherd with a new beastlord, probably warherds based on current kits and the SC though.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Ganigumo
new idea

[The Red King]

Kurnoth versus Beasts would be an auto buy for me so I hope they don't because I cant be spending right now lol

[Lord Krungharr]

I wouldn't mind a new starter kit for the Monsters of Chaos, like a Chimera, new Razorgors, new Hounds, a Jabberslythe....and 16 new plastic Cockatrices

[Ganigumo]

56 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I wouldn't mind a new starter kit for the Monsters of Chaos, like a Chimera, new Razorgors, new Hounds, a Jabberslythe....and 16 new plastic Cockatrices

A full monsters of chaos force with hound & Razorgor battleline and some sort of monster hero (maybe just a battalion with a chaos gargant hero? like they're doing with the charioteer) would actually be super cool

[Popisdead]

13 hours ago, Maddpainting said:

Lets do some predictions, new books are coming out redoing some warcrolls and brining battalions as well. 

What do you think GW will do to us? 

I think I said above, historically (2003 onward) GW makes a book, seems decent, people find ways of playing it well, then GW gives it a boost with marks in some ways then takes it away shortly after.  I've seen it in 6th, 7th and 8th ed and now AoS.  

I expect some weird rules set that gives us a boost, draws in a bunch of new players and then edition change (July 2021) then we'll be back to being limited and hard to play.  so I expect some some of rule saying "you can just finally give anything in BoC a mark" people will go "oh we can have khorne bray shaman again, loop hole" people will start hobby projects.  That's my guess based on history.  I miss Khorne Minotuars with 5 attacks each.  

Slaangors are indeed a possibility with the Underworlds warband and the hero.  Last night I found most my old plastic Daemonette bitz collected and was eying some really old Gors that could do with some fancying up.  

I think the contributions people have said regarding a few re-writes would be great.  Gors getting their old script back but with cleaner writing (less trying to get a 4+ to 2+ for a bonus attack), perhaps the Beastlord command ability that just works, not "if you do X" O_o.  

 

Edit: you know what we should be doing is thinking about this in regards to the lore and marketing.  From the War Com today we saw the two nearly-net new aelf armies are getting significant changes.  And their integration into the ultimate Kevin Bacon Battletome Cities of Sigmar.  If DoK get a city and so do Deepkin, that's three armies that get better.  People with Cities can add units from those books and if the weaker warscrolls get a re-write GW wont' have to rely on the eels kit to sell.  Maybe you can add a turtle to living city (who knows).  People with old primarily "core" Dark Elf armies can use them with a few new things.  

What does chaos get?  Well Everchosen was significant.  What about something that tied in Beasts of Chaos back into chaos a little more?  I guess I said that in a way.  Ah well,.. hard to be a BoC player.  It's like being a cubs fan.  Living the pain.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Popisdead